**Official 2023 Ortho PASS/Interviews/Match/Non-Match**

[Ortho Applicant 27]

Has anyone received a response for Jacksonville fellowship positions or a second round of residency invites?
thanks

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Penn2024]

I believe 17. On the website it says they start the post match process on Dec 1.

what does that process entail?

 

[Grace17]

Has anyone received a response for Jacksonville fellowship positions or a second round of residency invites?
Me to the Fellowship

 

[Penn2024]

What was the prompt for this cycles personal statement?

 

[Ortho Applicant 27]

I got a call too for the fellowship, any idea how is JU's fellowship program?

 

[orthoqueen11]

Anyone get off Colorado's waitlist after Match day?

 

[Grace17]

I got a call too for the fellowship, any idea how is JU's fellowship program?

Did he sen the email already ? I only get the phone call but still waiting for the email information. I believe the fellowship start in July 7th.

 

[Ortho Applicant 27]

Did he sen the email already ? I only get the phone call but still waiting for the email information. I believe the fellowship start in July 7th.

same, I received a phone call.

 

[momjeans]

Anyone get off Colorado's waitlist after Match day?
Does CO have an actual waitlist?

 

[momjeans]

Anyone get off Colorado's waitlist after Match day?
Does CO have an actual waitlist?

Received email notification Colorado filled all their positions.

 

[orthoqueen11]

Received email notification Colorado filled all their positions.

When did you get this? Did you initially interview there?

 

[momjeans]

When did you get this? Did you initially interview there?

I received it today. Yes I did.

 

[Penn2024]

Any updates on what is going to happen to Georgias unfilled spots?

 

[Penn2024]

Does anyone know what the prompt for the personal statement is and if there is an addendum section and what the word count is?

 

[Docortho1212]

Does anyone know what the prompt for the personal statement is and if there is an addendum section and what the word count is?

Reach out to GSO admissions office to inquire. [email protected]

My personal statement for PASS/MATCH app was about 3 full pages. No prompt was given either.

 

[011110]

Is it better to do Georgia’s program or Jacksonville’s fellowship program?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Is it better to do Georgia’s program or Jacksonville’s fellowship program?

Big Hoss

 

[011110]

View attachment 363297

Big Hoss

Why? I’m in the Fellowship, but Georgia has openings. If I get in Georgia I may ditch the fellowship since it’s an actual program. Thoughts?

 

[011110]

Why? I’m in the Fellowship, but Georgia has openings. If I get in Georgia I may ditch the fellowship since it’s an actual program. Thoughts?

Anyone have an opinion on the better option?

 

[Orthomaybe]

I think it depends on several things. Cost of attendance would be something to think about since ppl are saying its around 500k for the program. Another thing is the class size which is pretty big.. however if you were to get an interview you can just ask around the residents there to see how they feel about the program before making that decision. If you are comfortable with the cost and environment there after your interview then I don't see any reason not to attend. I think the main thing right now is you should get the offer first before stressing about it.

 

[Docortho1212]

Why? I’m in the Fellowship, but Georgia has openings. If I get in Georgia I may ditch the fellowship since it’s an actual program. Thoughts?

I agree

 

[paamp]

To those who were accepted- please don't forget to fill this out (if you feel comfortable of course) to help out future applicants!!

If you're not comfortable posting publicly, feel free to DM me! Applying this upcoming cycle and new to the whole Ortho process.

So crazy how these threads have devolved into utter trash compared to what they were ~10ish years ago, probably reflective of the profession as a whole sad to say

 

[Orth0]

So crazy how these threads have devolved into utter trash compared to what they were ~10ish years ago, probably reflective of the profession as a whole sad to say

What makes you say this?

 

[011110]

I agree

I think it depends on several things. Cost of attendance would be something to think about since ppl are saying its around 500k for the program. Another thing is the class size which is pretty big.. however if you were to get an interview you can just ask around the residents there to see how they feel about the program before making that decision. If you are comfortable with the cost and environment there after your interview then I don't see any reason not to attend. I think the main thing right now is you should get the offer first before stressing about it.

Yea I think I’ll go with Georgia instead of the Fellowship, makes more sense

 

[Bobstreet]

Name of Ortho Program: Southern program
Dental School Attended: Midwest program
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: N/A
International Student (yes/no): No
INBDE: Passed after applying
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: V: 162 Q: 163 W: 4.0
Class Rank: Top 5%, GPA: 3.94
Match/Non-Match: Only applied to Match programs
Externship(s)/where: N/A - Previous experience as ortho assistant and shadowed local orthodontists
Research: Multi-year research experience in undergrad, but no publications
Extracurriculars: Tutoring / teaching assistant in undergrad and dental school, leadership in undergrad and dental school (clubs, student government, etc.), consistent volunteer experience
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 24/9/8/8

 

[jobayanks29]

Does anyone know how much Jacksonville is per year? It says on their site it’s $95,000 each year for tuition, but are there other fees as well??

 

[paamp]

Go back 10 years to nearly any forum for medicine/dentistry and there are templates people have filled out to help others... super weird comment

Guess it wasn’t clear but I meant these threads used to have way more people sharing their stats

 

[Kattman]

Name of Ortho Program: Western Program
Dental School Attended: Southern Program
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: N/A
International Student (yes/no): No
INBDE: Passed before applying
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: V: 162 Q: 156 W: 5.5 (I feel like the writing section helped me because they want to see you can write a thesis for your masters)
Class Rank: Top 10%, GPA: 3.83
Match/Non-Match: Only applied to Match programs
Externship(s)/where: 1-Southern program, but only for 1 day.
Research: Multi-year research experience in undergrad, dental school research project, presentation and awards for research. 1 publication.
Extracurriculars: Ortho interest group, multiple orthodontics related extracurricular courses such as shadowing, wire bending, and research. Service scholarship award, multiple leadership positions and service projects. Just show that you're involved and that you can do service and hold leadership positions.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 20/8/6/6

 

[Docortho1212]

Yea I think I’ll go with Georgia instead of the Fellowship, makes more sense

I strongly agree. Get that certificate. Earn a great living.

 

[smm14]

Name of Ortho Program: Midwest program (two year)
Dental School Attended: Different Midwest dental school
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2018
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: GPR
International Student (yes/no): No
NBDE Part I/II scores: Pass
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: Q-161, V-155, W-4.0
Class Rank: 13/101
Match/Non-Match: Match only
Externship(s)/where: None
Research: None.
Extracurriculars: Lots of volunteering in dental school. Worked as a general dentist at a public health dental clinic.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 12/3/3/3
I never thought I would apply to ortho during dental school so did not have much ortho specific extracurriculars on my application. I have a few years of experience as a general dentist which was a plus for interviews and application so if you do apply for a second time, the experience can only help you! I did a lot of shadowing at ortho offices once I did decide to apply. If you are applying as a general dentist a few years out of school, I would recommend getting to know faculty at programs nearby. A lot of programs have faculty that work part time at the program so it was definitely beneficial to shadow those docs when they were working at their private office. Hope this helps!

 

[paamp]

Would anyone mind sharing when we should aim to have a completed application for the 23-24 cycle? Beginning or end of May?

 

[crown18]

Would anyone mind sharing when we should aim to have a completed application for the 23-24 cycle? Beginning or end of May?

I had my PASS App in on the 11th of June last year with all of my supplemental applications done by around the end of June! You won’t be able to start your application until the application cycle opens in early May so that will give you 4-6 weeks to get it done. Make sure your application is super polished and don’t rush it getting it in. From what I understand, most programs don’t look at applications until after their deadline and there aren’t brownie points awarded for getting your app in early. On the other hand, there are a few programs (Oklahoma, Iowa and San Antonio) that have historically invited for interviews before their deadline - usually late July or early August. These programs (and really only these programs) will often do multiple rounds of interviews anyways so you aren’t out of luck if you miss their first invites. Oklahoma even invited for interviews in late June a few years ago! I would shoot to have your applications done by end of June and prioritize the early-inviter programs to have those in by the beginning of June!

As a side note, San Antonio is going through a change of leadership this year so they may behave differently going forward!

 

[Inanna234]

Would anyone mind sharing when we should aim to have a completed application for the 23-24 cycle? Beginning or end of May?

That’s a good question. It has no effect on your application when you apply. The applications (at least for Match programs) are not rolling applications— unlike when we applied to dental school.

 

[GoOU]

Would anyone mind sharing when we should aim to have a completed application for the 23-24 cycle? Beginning or end of May?

Applying earlier is always a better goal than later. Make sure your application package is quality, so try to have your ducks in a row before it even opens. I suggest asking for letters a couple weeks before and at least have a rough draft of a personal statement. Those deadlines can sneak up on you!

 

[Parrot$84]

What are the chances of getting in the second time you try applying ? Not sure what my next move is going to be….

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

What are the chances of getting in the second time you try applying ? Not sure what my next move is going to be….

How has your application changed/improved? If nothing is different, I’d expect the same outcome.

Big Hoss

 

[crown18]

I feel extremely fortunate to have matched - especially after having seen how incredible all the applicants were on the interview trail. I wanted to share a transparent look at my app with the most amount of useful information. I know it is not the norm to share specific information anymore, but I hope that by sharing specific information, I can help someone down the road! Also, if anyone wants to talk, ask specific questions, or have a second set of eyes to review personal statements, applications, etc., I would be happy to! I am so grateful for those who had gone through this process before who took the time to help me. My google voice number is (801) 899-6281 and my name is Stephen - feel free to shoot me a text and we can set up a time to talk if you need help with anything!

Name of Ortho Program: VCU
Dental School Attended: University of Utah
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: None
International Student (yes/no): No
NBDE Part I/II scores: Pass
ADAT Score: N/A
DAT Score: 23 AA, 24 TS, 25 PAT (Some schools asked for this in their app so I included it here.)
GRE Score: Verbal: 163, Quant: 165, AWA: 4.5
Class Rank: The University of Utah doesn't release class ranks to students so I am not sure where I ended up:/ My GPA was 3.97.
Match/Non-Match: Match only
Externship(s)/where: None
Research: One publication in undergrad, research but no publication in dental school.
Extracurriculars: Class President, Ortho Club President, Recipient of Excellence in Orthodontics Award at my dental school, Full tuition Scholarship to BYU in Undergrad (Didn't think this was going to be important to programs, but it was brought up multiple times in interviews) Recipient of Excellence in Leadership Award for my class, Speaker at two White Coat Ceremonies at my school, Head Orthodontics TA, Histology TA, President of the Business and Dentistry Club, Class Social Lead, lot of volunteering and involvement in my church. I also wrote an operations manual for the orthodontic clinic at my school.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: Applied to 41 schools, received interview invites to 18 schools, attended 10, ranked all 10. matched to my first choice.

Here are a couple tips that I feel helped me along the way. This may be long winded, but I hope it helps someone!

1) Apply Widely - Early last year, I went through all posts on SDN over the last 5 years to figure out the interview rate of the average candidate (number of interview invites received/number of schools applied to). I found that on average, candidates received interviews to 28% of the schools they applied to (this rate varied based on the individual’s application, but I wanted to get a ballpark for the average applicant). I realize that SDN is not a simple random sample of all orthodontic applicants, but it was the best info I had available. There was an interesting statistical summary of the Dental Match published in 2017 that summarized an applicant's chances of matching based on the number of interviews the applicant receives. It was for all specialties so ortho alone may have slightly different chances for each number of interviews. In the summary on page 20, it says that an applicant who receives 1-3 interviews has a 58% chance of matching. An applicant who receives 4-6 interview invites has a 79% chance of matching. An applicant who receives 7-9 interviews has an 81% chance of matching. Using these numbers, you can get a ballpark of how many schools you should apply to based on your risk tolerance. If you want a better shot at getting 8+ interviews and are the average applicant, you should apply to at least 28+ schools (.28*28=7.5). I may have gone a little overboard with how many schools I applied to, but I have seen great applicants get 8+ interviews and not match. It's expensive to apply to a lot of schools, but it is cheaper than waiting another year to apply. At many interviews I was asked how many schools I applied to, when I told them that I applied to 41 schools, the interviewers all saw this as a positive - they saw I was serious about ortho. I have seen applicants be extremely picky with the schools they apply to, and that’s fine – everyone has preferences! But I think being picky with schools is a luxury that you should let yourself enjoy after you receive interview invites, not before. I have seen too many applicants be overly confident going into the process, apply to too few schools, and end up with a disappointing result. Don’t get fixated on certain schools – ortho is too good of a profession to only be willing to enter if you can go to school X in city Y, etc. At each program I interviewed at, I felt that each was truly a quality program with great people!

2) Run for as many things as you can when it comes to extracurriculars. Being involved in your school is a rewarding experience – you develop relationships with people and faculty in ways you wouldn’t otherwise. Being involved in school and being elected to positions communicates to programs that your peers trust and like you! My goal was to run for one position that I was interested in during each round of elections and not sweat it too much if I lost! (and I definitely lost some! Haha) but by the time I applied, I had held a fair number of positions to hopefully communicate that I would be a culture fit for programs. I tried to swing at every pitch and by the time I applied, I had connected on a good number. Don’t worry if you strike out on some! I think this is a good attitude to have.

3) Have your personal statement (and application) dialed in – communicate that you are a professional. In a survey given to program directors in 2011 (a little dated but still good info – here is the link Applicant selection procedures for orthodontic specialty programs in the United States: Survey of program directors), it was reported that maturity is the most desirable applicant characteristic to program directors. I think some personal statements, in an attempt to hook the reader in the beginning or to be engaging, may come across as less professional. These types of personal statements may be effective if your friends were your audience, but often individuals who are 20-30 years older than you are your audience. Keep it professional while being engaging. Have people review your personal statement who are similar in temperament and attitude to program directors. I had 8-10 of my friends and family read my first personal statement and they loved it! After having received great reviews from friends and family, I sent it to a very distinguished faculty member at my school (with a similar demeanor to many program directors) to have him give me feedback. He told me to ditch my current statement and start over. I did and I am so grateful – almost every interview I had referenced the story in my final statement. My advice would be to get as many eyes on your personal statement – especially eyes that are similar to those of program directors!

4) Nail the interview. In that same survey I referenced above, program directors reported that the interview was the most important factor in selecting applicants. I was told by many residents on the interview trail that the application only gets you the interview and that the interview gets you in. I know this is not true for all programs, but I thought those comments emphasized the importance of the interview. Having a great application only on paper is not enough to get you into orthodontics – you need to demonstrate strong soft skills. To prepare before every interview, I made sure I had 5-10 stories from my past that helped me communicate my strengths. Many questions I could connect to those stories. I also prepared at least three genuine reasons why I would be excited to attend each program I interviewed at. Finally, I printed out a portfolio of photos of things I talked about on my CV. I had photos of renovations I had done (I talked about doing renovations in my PS) as well as photos of a dental drill I built and talked about in my application. For most items on my CV, I had photos prepared that I could show them in the interview if they brought those items up. My interviewers loved this! I heard someone say that you should prepare for each interview as if it were a big exam – I think that is good advice! I created a question bank of interview questions that I received at my interviews, and I updated the bank as I completed interviews. This helped me refresh and prepare for my following interviews – lots of similar questions at different schools! Feel free to reach out if you feel like the bank would be helpful to you!

5) Make a deliberate effort to set yourself up to receive great letters of recommendation. I think remote learning (which gained popularity since the pandemic) has complicated getting to know faculty in an organic way. It now requires you going out of your way a bit more to develop relationships. Try to foster good relationship with many faculty, and good letter writers will come out of the woodworks. Some faculty may even offer to write you a letter without you asking – these are the people you want to write your letters. Personally, I would ask for letters from individuals who you trust will write a great letter over people in high places (still sticking to faculty members and dental professionals). If you have someone that you trust wholeheartedly that’s well known in the dental field, that’s the best situation. It is tough to know who will write good letters, but you should ask successful applicants from years above you who they think good letter writers are at your school! I feel that helped me a lot in choosing my letter writers.

6) Reverse Engineer your CV. I was fortunate to have applicants who came before me let me take a glance at their CV. Early on in dental school, I studied the CVs of successful applicants and sought to accomplish similar things during the first three years of dental school. I didn’t try to reinvent the wheel – I just tried to do the things that were already proven to work!

7) Apply to a variety of programs with different lengths, costs and locations. This is related to the first point, but slightly different. Every year, the Match publishes interesting statistics to show how competitive programs are (here’s the link: https://natmatch.com/dentres/stats/2022progstats.pdf). On page 3, they create a ratio for each residency program (they summarize the data as a whole, not revealing which programs have which ratio). The ratio is defined as the rank number of the school’s lowest ranked accepted applicant over the number of positions available at the residency. Basically, it represents how far down their rank list residency X went to fill their spots in comparison to the number of positions they have. So if residency X’s last matched applicant was number 4 on their rank list and they had 4 positions available, their ratio would be 1 and that school would be considered very competitive. They essentially matched the four that they wanted because all their interviewed applicants ranked that residency very high on their lists. On the summary page, 13 ortho programs have a ratio of 1-1.5, 11 programs have a ratio of 1.5-2, 9 programs have a ratio of 2-2.5, 8 programs have a ratio of 2.5-3 and so on. While it doesn’t say which programs are which, it is not hard to guess which programs are going to be more competitive (short, inexpensive, lots of experience, desirable location, etc). If you only apply to the most competitive schools, that means that you will have to rank near the top of their pool of interviewees to get in. Give yourself better odds of matching by applying to schools that have the ratios of 2-3 or higher in addition to applying to the most competitive schools. It’s much easier to be in the top 12 of 30 interviewees than the top 4 of 30 interviewees. I have seen applicants get many interviews at the top programs and not get in, not because they weren’t a great applicant, but because they only applied to the most competitive schools and slipped through the cracks in interviews. To apply to residencies of varying competitiveness, apply to programs of different costs, lengths, and locations.

I am sorry for such a long post, but again, I hope this helps someone! Again, I am more than willing to talk to anyone who might want help with any step in the process – don’t be afraid to reach out!

 

[Orth0]

I feel extremely fortunate to have matched - especially after having seen how incredible all the applicants were on the interview trail. I wanted to share a transparent look at my app with the most amount of useful information. I know it is not the norm to share specific information anymore, but I hope that by sharing specific information, I can help someone down the road! Also, if anyone wants to talk, ask specific questions, or have a second set of eyes to review personal statements, applications, etc., I would be happy to! I am so grateful for those who had gone through this process before who took the time to help me. My google voice number is (801) 899-6281 and my name is Stephen - feel free to shoot me a text and we can set up a time to talk if you need help with anything!

Name of Ortho Program: VCU
Dental School Attended: University of Utah
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: None
International Student (yes/no): No
NBDE Part I/II scores: Pass
ADAT Score: N/A
DAT Score: 23 AA, 24 TS, 25 PAT (Some schools asked for this in their app so I included it here.)
GRE Score: Verbal: 163, Quant: 165, AWA: 4.5
Class Rank: The University of Utah doesn't release class ranks to students so I am not sure where I ended up:/ My GPA was 3.97.
Match/Non-Match: Match only
Externship(s)/where: None
Research: One publication in undergrad, research but no publication in dental school.
Extracurriculars: Class President, Ortho Club President, Recipient of Excellence in Orthodontics Award at my dental school, Full tuition Scholarship to BYU in Undergrad (Didn't think this was going to be important to programs, but it was brought up multiple times in interviews) Recipient of Excellence in Leadership Award for my class, Speaker at two White Coat Ceremonies at my school, Head Orthodontics TA, Histology TA, President of the Business and Dentistry Club, Class Social Lead, lot of volunteering and involvement in my church. I also wrote an operations manual for the orthodontic clinic at my school.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: Applied to 41 schools, received interview invites to 18 schools, attended 10, ranked all 10. matched to my first choice.

Here are a couple tips that I feel helped me along the way. This may be long winded, but I hope it helps someone!

1) Apply Widely - Early last year, I went through all posts on SDN over the last 5 years to figure out the interview rate of the average candidate (number of interview invites received/number of schools applied to). I found that on average, candidates received interviews to 28% of the schools they applied to (this rate varied based on the individual’s application, but I wanted to get a ballpark for the average applicant). I realize that SDN is not a simple random sample of all orthodontic applicants, but it was the best info I had available. There was an interesting statistical summary of the Dental Match published in 2017 that summarized an applicant's chances of matching based on the number of interviews the applicant receives. It was for all specialties so ortho alone may have slightly different chances for each number of interviews. In the summary on page 20, it says that an applicant who receives 1-3 interviews has a 58% chance of matching. An applicant who receives 4-6 interview invites has a 79% chance of matching. An applicant who receives 7-9 interviews has an 81% chance of matching. Using these numbers, you can get a ballpark of how many schools you should apply to based on your risk tolerance. If you want a better shot at getting 8+ interviews and are the average applicant, you should apply to at least 28+ schools (.28*28=7.5). I may have gone a little overboard with how many schools I applied to, but I have seen great applicants get 8+ interviews and not match. It's expensive to apply to a lot of schools, but it is cheaper than waiting another year to apply. At many interviews I was asked how many schools I applied to, when I told them that I applied to 41 schools, the interviewers all saw this as a positive - they saw I was serious about ortho. I have seen applicants be extremely picky with the schools they apply to, and that’s fine – everyone has preferences! But I think being picky with schools is a luxury that you should let yourself enjoy after you receive interview invites, not before. I have seen too many applicants be overly confident going into the process, apply to too few schools, and end up with a disappointing result. Don’t get fixated on certain schools – ortho is too good of a profession to only be willing to enter if you can go to school X in city Y, etc. At each program I interviewed at, I felt that each was truly a quality program with great people!

2) Run for as many things as you can when it comes to extracurriculars. Being involved in your school is a rewarding experience – you develop relationships with people and faculty in ways you wouldn’t otherwise. Being involved in school and being elected to positions communicates to programs that your peers trust and like you! My goal was to run for one position that I was interested in during each round of elections and not sweat it too much if I lost! (and I definitely lost some! Haha) but by the time I applied, I had held a fair number of positions to hopefully communicate that I would be a culture fit for programs. I tried to swing at every pitch and by the time I applied, I had connected on a good number. Don’t worry if you strike out on some! I think this is a good attitude to have.

3) Have your personal statement (and application) dialed in – communicate that you are a professional. In a survey given to program directors in 2011 (a little dated but still good info – here is the link Applicant selection procedures for orthodontic specialty programs in the United States: Survey of program directors), it was reported that maturity is the most desirable applicant characteristic to program directors. I think some personal statements, in an attempt to hook the reader in the beginning or to be engaging, may come across as less professional. These types of personal statements may be effective if your friends were your audience, but often individuals who are 20-30 years older than you are your audience. Keep it professional while being engaging. Have people review your personal statement who are similar in temperament and attitude to program directors. I had 8-10 of my friends and family read my first personal statement and they loved it! After having received great reviews from friends and family, I sent it to a very distinguished faculty member at my school (with a similar demeanor to many program directors) to have him give me feedback. He told me to ditch my current statement and start over. I did and I am so grateful – almost every interview I had referenced the story in my final statement. My advice would be to get as many eyes on your personal statement – especially eyes that are similar to those of program directors!

4) Nail the interview. In that same survey I referenced above, program directors reported that the interview was the most important factor in selecting applicants. I was told by many residents on the interview trail that the application only gets you the interview and that the interview gets you in. I know this is not true for all programs, but I thought those comments emphasized the importance of the interview. Having a great application only on paper is not enough to get you into orthodontics – you need to demonstrate strong soft skills. To prepare before every interview, I made sure I had 5-10 stories from my past that helped me communicate my strengths. Many questions I could connect to those stories. I also prepared at least three genuine reasons why I would be excited to attend each program I interviewed at. Finally, I printed out a portfolio of photos of things I talked about on my CV. I had photos of renovations I had done (I talked about doing renovations in my PS) as well as photos of a dental drill I built and talked about in my application. For most items on my CV, I had photos prepared that I could show them in the interview if they brought those items up. My interviewers loved this! I heard someone say that you should prepare for each interview as if it were a big exam – I think that is good advice! I created a question bank of interview questions that I received at my interviews, and I updated the bank as I completed interviews. This helped me refresh and prepare for my following interviews – lots of similar questions at different schools! Feel free to reach out if you feel like the bank would be helpful to you!

5) Make an deliberate effort to set yourself up to receive great letters of recommendation. I think remote learning (which gained popularity since the pandemic) has complicated getting to know faculty in an organic way. It now requires you going out of your way a bit more to develop relationships. Try to foster good relationship with many faculty, and good letter writers will come out of the woodworks. Some faculty may even offer to write you a letter without you asking – these are the people you want to write your letters. Personally, I would ask for letters from individuals who you trust will write a great letter over people in high places (still stinking to faculty members and dental professionals). If you have someone that you trust wholeheartedly that’s well known in the dental field, that’s the best situation. It is tough to know who will write good letters, but you should ask successful applicants from years above you who they think good letter writers are at your school! I feel that helped me a lot in choosing my letter writers.

6) Reverse Engineer your CV. I was fortunate to have applicants who came before me let me take a glance at their CV. Early on in dental school, I studied the CVs of successful applicants and sought to accomplish similar things during the first three years of dental school. I didn’t try to reinvent the wheel – I just tried to do the things that were already proven to work!

7) Apply to a variety of programs with different lengths, costs and locations. This is related to the first point, but slightly different. Every year, the Match publishes interesting statistics to show how competitive programs are (here’s the link: https://natmatch.com/dentres/stats/2022progstats.pdf). On page 3, they create a ratio for each residency program (they summarize the data as a whole, not revealing which programs have which ratio). The ratio is defined as the rank number of the school’s lowest ranked accepted applicant over the number of positions available at the residency. Basically, it represents how far down their rank list residency X went to fill their spots in comparison to the number of positions they have. So if residency X’s last matched applicant was number 4 on their rank list and they had 4 positions available, their ratio would be 1 and that school would be considered very competitive. They essentially matched the four that they wanted because all their interviewed applicants ranked that residency very high on their lists. On the summary page, 13 ortho programs have a ratio of 1-1.5, 11 programs have a ratio of 1.5-2, 9 programs have a ratio of 2-2.5, 8 programs have a ratio of 2.5-3 and so on. While it doesn’t say which programs are which, it is not hard to guess which programs are going to be more competitive (short, inexpensive, lots of experience, desirable location, etc). If you only apply to the most competitive schools, that means that you will have to rank near the top of their pool of interviewees to get in. Give yourself better odds of matching by applying to schools that have the ratios of 2-3 or higher in addition to applying to the most competitive schools. It’s much easier to be in the top 12 of 30 interviewees than the top 4 of 30 interviewees. I have seen applicants get many interviews at the top programs and not get in, not because they weren’t a great applicant, but because they only applied to the most competitive schools and slipped through the cracks in interviews. To apply to residencies of varying competitiveness, apply to programs of different costs, lengths, and locations.

I am sorry for such a long post, but again, I hope this helps someone! Again, I am more than willing to talk to anyone who might want help with any step in the process – don’t be afraid to reach out!

Wow. Congrats !! 🎉🎉

 

[merag.rm9000]

Hey everyone,
Does anybody know whether the St. Louis ortho program accepts foreign graduate dentists or not?

 

[averageasian]

Anyone here who matched and was prior military?

 

[JengaManga]

How do you determine if a program is overall solid? Do you place a lot of weight on the name of the program (e.g. UNC), the program director's publication and education history, word of mouth, famous alumni, number of residents?

I am forming a list of programs I will apply to and am primarily picking schools based on a combination of location, length of program, and cost. Not sure how to know if these programs are good or bad though.

 

[bracketbuster68]

How do you determine if a program is overall solid? Do you place a lot of weight on the name of the program (e.g. UNC), the program director's publication and education history, word of mouth, famous alumni, number of residents?

I am forming a list of programs I will apply to and am primarily picking schools based on a combination of location, length of program, and cost. Not sure how to know if these programs are good or bad though.

Clinical experience, organization/structure of clinic & program, faculty, resources available (cbct, scanners, TADs, printers, appliances, bracket systems).

I weigh 2 years heavily over 3.

 

[charlestweed]

How do you determine if a program is overall solid?

I don’t think you can….even if you go visit them. The current residents tend to give you biased answers and say nice things about their own programs. The best program is the one that you attend.

Do you place a lot of weight on the name of the program (e.g. UNC), the program director's publication and education history, word of mouth, famous alumni, number of residents?

None of those things that you listed will help make you a better orthodontist. You will learn more at a program that doesn’t have modern equipment….that doesn’t provide you enough assistants and makes you do all the work yourself. I am glad that I attended such program. I called the patients. I presented and sold the cases to the parents. I bent wires and made all the ortho appliances. I worked without an assistant. None of my instructors (chair, director, part time instructors) was “famous” in the ortho community. It's a no name program that grants a MS degree + ortho certificate after 2 years of training.

You gain experience from working in the real world. The more cases you treat in private practice, the more unforeseeable complications you will see and the more you will learn. That’s why I’ve always recommended the new grads to get as many jobs as possible to fill up the work schedule. Don’t be picky…travel to multiple offices to keep yourself busy. You can be a good orthodontist even if you attend a for profit program like Georgia. The harder you work, the better orthodontist you will become.

I am forming a list of programs I will apply to and am primarily picking schools based on a combination of location, length of program, and cost. Not sure how to know if these programs are good or bad though.

Cost and length of program should be the top 2 things to consider when you rank programs. Lower cost and shorter length of training are always better. You have to have very good stats (your research paper must be published) in order for you to pick and choose where you want to attend. If you don’t have great stats nor research, you have to apply to as many programs (including the less desirable and super expensive programs) in order to increase your chance of getting in. Ortho is still a very competitive specialty despite all the problems (oversaturation, Smile Direct Club, GPs doing ortho etc) that you hear on this forum.

IMO, 2 years of training should be more than enough.....unless you want to do research so you can put the 2 letters, MS, behind your DDS.

 

[MIIMtodent]

I don’t think you can….even if you go visit them. The current residents tend to give you biased answers and say nice things about their own programs. The best program is the one that you attend.

None of those things that you listed will help make you a better orthodontist. You will learn more at a program that doesn’t have modern equipment….that doesn’t provide you enough assistants and makes you do all the work yourself. I am glad that I attended such program. I called the patients. I presented and sold the cases to the parents. I bent wires and made all the ortho appliances. I worked without an assistant. None of my instructors (chair, director, part time instructors) was “famous” in the ortho community. It's a no name program that grants a MS degree + ortho certificate after 2 years of training.

You gain experience from working in the real world. The more cases you treat in private practice, the more unforeseeable complications you will see and the more you will learn. That’s why I’ve always recommended the new grads to get as many jobs as possible to fill up the work schedule. Don’t be picky…travel to multiple offices to keep yourself busy. You can be a good orthodontist even if you attend a for profit program like Georgia. The harder you work, the better orthodontist you will become.

Cost and length of program should be the top 2 things to consider when you rank programs. Lower cost and shorter length of training are always better. You have to have very good stats (your research paper must be published) in order for you to pick and choose where you want to attend. If you don’t have great stats nor research, you have to apply to as many programs (including the less desirable and super expensive programs) in order to increase your chance of getting in. Ortho is still a very competitive specialty despite all the problems (oversaturation, Smile Direct Club, GPs doing ortho etc) that you hear on this forum.

IMO, 2 years of training should be more than enough.....unless you want to do research so you can put the 2 letters, MS, behind your DDS.

Many of the 2 year programs get masters as well. Has nothing to do with the length of the program.

 

[JengaManga]

Clinical experience, organization/structure of clinic & program, faculty, resources available (cbct, scanners, TADs, printers, appliances, bracket systems).

I weigh 2 years heavily over 3.

What are some questions you can ask to the residents and faculty to gauge what the clinical experience and organization/structure of the clinic/program is like?

I suppose how many cases you start, how many you finish, how many transfers, how many different faculty in a given week, etc. Also when you actually start seeing patients. What the treatment philosophies are.

Unsure what a desirable experience and organization/structure is so I don't know what the right questions to ask are.

 

[bracketbuster68]

What are some questions you can ask to the residents and faculty to gauge what the clinical experience and organization/structure of the clinic/program is like?

I suppose how many cases you start, how many you finish, how many transfers, how many different faculty in a given week, etc. Also when you actually start seeing patients. What the treatment philosophies are.

Unsure what a desirable experience and organization/structure is so I don't know what the right questions to ask are.

It’s impossible to know this about programs until you’re in them. I would ask questions to the faculty and residents. If they seem dishonest, hesitant, redirecting - red flag. If you have any questions, free to pm me.

 

[blablabla1]

In my opinion, go to the program that will force you to make all your appliances (that way you know how to adjust appliances that don’t come back ideal from the lab as well as how to cheaply make appliances with everyday low cost materials and fix them in your own practice), give you the most # of starts, has the largest faculty to resident ratio (with lots of part time faculty who have their own practices), has a front office to handle scheduling (last thing you want to be doing in your free time is handling logistics vs learning orthodontics), assistants to help with setting up and tearing down chairs (to allow you to see as many patients as possible. And to learn how to work with assistants and delegate your work), works with many different bracket systems, focuses more on brackets than aligners, has a balanced patient base in terms of ethnic diversity, keeps technology to a minimum (you can easily learn to use these technologies outside of residency), has the shortest period of training time, and the cheapest cost overall.

When it came down to choose, I factored length of program and cost above everything else and then looked at the other factors I mentioned.

 

[doctorortho]

Hey guys, so, I just took my GRE for the second time and got 156 on quant and 161 on verbal and 4 on writing. Should I take it again?

 

[toothmover26]

Name of Ortho Program: Southeastern program
Dental School Attended: Mid-Atlantic program
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: None
International Student (yes/no): No
INBDE scores: Pass
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: Verbal: 164, Quant: 164, AWA: 5.0
Class Rank: 1/78 4.0
Match/Non-Match: Match only
Research: One publication in dental school, one additional project in dental school with poster presentation
Extracurriculars: Club president - volunteering related, Ortho Club VP, Entrepreneurial grant winner for previously mentioned research project, Group leader for student-run international dental service trip, peer tutor, ortho externship. various volunteering and shadowing, and other club memberships.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 17/11/7/7

@crown18 inspired me to pay it forward. I read a lot of those articles Stephen mentioned as well, but as he pointed out, those stats are an average and you will have to evaluate the extent to which they apply to you based on the strength of your application.

I also looked for a comprehensive list of solid programs prior to applying, but ultimately, that list is going to be unique to each individual depending on what you value in a program. For me personally, I valued low cost, seeing a wide variety of cases/appliances, and modern tech. I can only speak to my experience, but I was particularly impressed with UNC, VCU, OSU, and MUSC when I interviewed. Based on what other applicants and my classmates said, Minnesota, Iowa, and any of the Texas programs were also great.

As far as 2 vs 3 years, I know many people prefer 2 years, but I didn't let it become my number one variable. I felt like program/cultural fit was my highest priority. Also, there are pros to a 3 year program, the biggest of which, in my opinion, is seeing more cases through from start to finish and seeing how your treatment plan decisions early on impact your finish. That being said, I haven't even started so who knows...

My biggest takeaways from interviews:
- They brought up research way more than I thought they would, but from talking to other people who did not have as much research, just have a marquee extracurricular/leadership item on your resume that stands out for interviews.
- Leverage any and all connections you have to a school. Reach out to residents who went to your dental school, shadow alum, or even just email and ask if any resident would be able to talk with you about the program. I think demonstrated interest largely helped me stand out amongst the other incredibly accomplished people I was applying with at the school I ended up matching to.
-Have interests outside of dental school. I added a personal interests section to my CV and it was brought up often.

Again, these are just my experiences and opinions, so take it all with a grain of salt, but I hope it helps someone. Best of luck!

 

[GoOU]

Hey guys, so, I just took my GRE for the second time and got 156 on quant and 161 on verbal and 4 on writing. Should I take it again?

That’s perfectly fine! Don’t retake, focus on improving extracurriculars or research