**Official 2023 Ortho PASS/Interviews/Match/Non-Match**

[JengaManga]

When do you recommend doing externships, and when is the best time to contact programs to ask?

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[Faefly]

How to find ortho CE courses, I searched on ADA website, but most of the courses say it is for dental assistants. Should I search on Spear? or are there any other websites?

 

[paamp]

I feel extremely fortunate to have matched - especially after having seen how incredible all the applicants were on the interview trail. I wanted to share a transparent look at my app with the most amount of useful information. I know it is not the norm to share specific information anymore, but I hope that by sharing specific information, I can help someone down the road! Also, if anyone wants to talk, ask specific questions, or have a second set of eyes to review personal statements, applications, etc., I would be happy to! I am so grateful for those who had gone through this process before who took the time to help me. My google voice number is (801) 899-6281 and my name is Stephen - feel free to shoot me a text and we can set up a time to talk if you need help with anything!

Name of Ortho Program: VCU
Dental School Attended: University of Utah
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: None
International Student (yes/no): No
NBDE Part I/II scores: Pass
ADAT Score: N/A
DAT Score: 23 AA, 24 TS, 25 PAT (Some schools asked for this in their app so I included it here.)
GRE Score: Verbal: 163, Quant: 165, AWA: 4.5
Class Rank: The University of Utah doesn't release class ranks to students so I am not sure where I ended up:/ My GPA was 3.97.
Match/Non-Match: Match only
Externship(s)/where: None
Research: One publication in undergrad, research but no publication in dental school.
Extracurriculars: Class President, Ortho Club President, Recipient of Excellence in Orthodontics Award at my dental school, Full tuition Scholarship to BYU in Undergrad (Didn't think this was going to be important to programs, but it was brought up multiple times in interviews) Recipient of Excellence in Leadership Award for my class, Speaker at two White Coat Ceremonies at my school, Head Orthodontics TA, Histology TA, President of the Business and Dentistry Club, Class Social Lead, lot of volunteering and involvement in my church. I also wrote an operations manual for the orthodontic clinic at my school.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: Applied to 41 schools, received interview invites to 18 schools, attended 10, ranked all 10. matched to my first choice.

Here are a couple tips that I feel helped me along the way. This may be long winded, but I hope it helps someone!

1) Apply Widely - Early last year, I went through all posts on SDN over the last 5 years to figure out the interview rate of the average candidate (number of interview invites received/number of schools applied to). I found that on average, candidates received interviews to 28% of the schools they applied to (this rate varied based on the individual’s application, but I wanted to get a ballpark for the average applicant). I realize that SDN is not a simple random sample of all orthodontic applicants, but it was the best info I had available. There was an interesting statistical summary of the Dental Match published in 2017 that summarized an applicant's chances of matching based on the number of interviews the applicant receives. It was for all specialties so ortho alone may have slightly different chances for each number of interviews. In the summary on page 20, it says that an applicant who receives 1-3 interviews has a 58% chance of matching. An applicant who receives 4-6 interview invites has a 79% chance of matching. An applicant who receives 7-9 interviews has an 81% chance of matching. Using these numbers, you can get a ballpark of how many schools you should apply to based on your risk tolerance. If you want a better shot at getting 8+ interviews and are the average applicant, you should apply to at least 28+ schools (.28*28=7.5). I may have gone a little overboard with how many schools I applied to, but I have seen great applicants get 8+ interviews and not match. It's expensive to apply to a lot of schools, but it is cheaper than waiting another year to apply. At many interviews I was asked how many schools I applied to, when I told them that I applied to 41 schools, the interviewers all saw this as a positive - they saw I was serious about ortho. I have seen applicants be extremely picky with the schools they apply to, and that’s fine – everyone has preferences! But I think being picky with schools is a luxury that you should let yourself enjoy after you receive interview invites, not before. I have seen too many applicants be overly confident going into the process, apply to too few schools, and end up with a disappointing result. Don’t get fixated on certain schools – ortho is too good of a profession to only be willing to enter if you can go to school X in city Y, etc. At each program I interviewed at, I felt that each was truly a quality program with great people!

2) Run for as many things as you can when it comes to extracurriculars. Being involved in your school is a rewarding experience – you develop relationships with people and faculty in ways you wouldn’t otherwise. Being involved in school and being elected to positions communicates to programs that your peers trust and like you! My goal was to run for one position that I was interested in during each round of elections and not sweat it too much if I lost! (and I definitely lost some! Haha) but by the time I applied, I had held a fair number of positions to hopefully communicate that I would be a culture fit for programs. I tried to swing at every pitch and by the time I applied, I had connected on a good number. Don’t worry if you strike out on some! I think this is a good attitude to have.

3) Have your personal statement (and application) dialed in – communicate that you are a professional. In a survey given to program directors in 2011 (a little dated but still good info – here is the link Applicant selection procedures for orthodontic specialty programs in the United States: Survey of program directors), it was reported that maturity is the most desirable applicant characteristic to program directors. I think some personal statements, in an attempt to hook the reader in the beginning or to be engaging, may come across as less professional. These types of personal statements may be effective if your friends were your audience, but often individuals who are 20-30 years older than you are your audience. Keep it professional while being engaging. Have people review your personal statement who are similar in temperament and attitude to program directors. I had 8-10 of my friends and family read my first personal statement and they loved it! After having received great reviews from friends and family, I sent it to a very distinguished faculty member at my school (with a similar demeanor to many program directors) to have him give me feedback. He told me to ditch my current statement and start over. I did and I am so grateful – almost every interview I had referenced the story in my final statement. My advice would be to get as many eyes on your personal statement – especially eyes that are similar to those of program directors!

4) Nail the interview. In that same survey I referenced above, program directors reported that the interview was the most important factor in selecting applicants. I was told by many residents on the interview trail that the application only gets you the interview and that the interview gets you in. I know this is not true for all programs, but I thought those comments emphasized the importance of the interview. Having a great application only on paper is not enough to get you into orthodontics – you need to demonstrate strong soft skills. To prepare before every interview, I made sure I had 5-10 stories from my past that helped me communicate my strengths. Many questions I could connect to those stories. I also prepared at least three genuine reasons why I would be excited to attend each program I interviewed at. Finally, I printed out a portfolio of photos of things I talked about on my CV. I had photos of renovations I had done (I talked about doing renovations in my PS) as well as photos of a dental drill I built and talked about in my application. For most items on my CV, I had photos prepared that I could show them in the interview if they brought those items up. My interviewers loved this! I heard someone say that you should prepare for each interview as if it were a big exam – I think that is good advice! I created a question bank of interview questions that I received at my interviews, and I updated the bank as I completed interviews. This helped me refresh and prepare for my following interviews – lots of similar questions at different schools! Feel free to reach out if you feel like the bank would be helpful to you!

5) Make a deliberate effort to set yourself up to receive great letters of recommendation. I think remote learning (which gained popularity since the pandemic) has complicated getting to know faculty in an organic way. It now requires you going out of your way a bit more to develop relationships. Try to foster good relationship with many faculty, and good letter writers will come out of the woodworks. Some faculty may even offer to write you a letter without you asking – these are the people you want to write your letters. Personally, I would ask for letters from individuals who you trust will write a great letter over people in high places (still sticking to faculty members and dental professionals). If you have someone that you trust wholeheartedly that’s well known in the dental field, that’s the best situation. It is tough to know who will write good letters, but you should ask successful applicants from years above you who they think good letter writers are at your school! I feel that helped me a lot in choosing my letter writers.

6) Reverse Engineer your CV. I was fortunate to have applicants who came before me let me take a glance at their CV. Early on in dental school, I studied the CVs of successful applicants and sought to accomplish similar things during the first three years of dental school. I didn’t try to reinvent the wheel – I just tried to do the things that were already proven to work!

7) Apply to a variety of programs with different lengths, costs and locations. This is related to the first point, but slightly different. Every year, the Match publishes interesting statistics to show how competitive programs are (here’s the link: https://natmatch.com/dentres/stats/2022progstats.pdf). On page 3, they create a ratio for each residency program (they summarize the data as a whole, not revealing which programs have which ratio). The ratio is defined as the rank number of the school’s lowest ranked accepted applicant over the number of positions available at the residency. Basically, it represents how far down their rank list residency X went to fill their spots in comparison to the number of positions they have. So if residency X’s last matched applicant was number 4 on their rank list and they had 4 positions available, their ratio would be 1 and that school would be considered very competitive. They essentially matched the four that they wanted because all their interviewed applicants ranked that residency very high on their lists. On the summary page, 13 ortho programs have a ratio of 1-1.5, 11 programs have a ratio of 1.5-2, 9 programs have a ratio of 2-2.5, 8 programs have a ratio of 2.5-3 and so on. While it doesn’t say which programs are which, it is not hard to guess which programs are going to be more competitive (short, inexpensive, lots of experience, desirable location, etc). If you only apply to the most competitive schools, that means that you will have to rank near the top of their pool of interviewees to get in. Give yourself better odds of matching by applying to schools that have the ratios of 2-3 or higher in addition to applying to the most competitive schools. It’s much easier to be in the top 12 of 30 interviewees than the top 4 of 30 interviewees. I have seen applicants get many interviews at the top programs and not get in, not because they weren’t a great applicant, but because they only applied to the most competitive schools and slipped through the cracks in interviews. To apply to residencies of varying competitiveness, apply to programs of different costs, lengths, and locations.

I am sorry for such a long post, but again, I hope this helps someone! Again, I am more than willing to talk to anyone who might want help with any step in the process – don’t be afraid to reach out!

Do you think there's a potential downside to applying to lots of programs if you have to apply a second cycle? I've heard reapplicants aren't necessarily looked upon positively. Thanks for the write up!

 

[Lemillion]

When do you recommend doing externships, and when is the best time to contact programs to ask?

I typically did my externships in the spring/summer (April-June). July is hit or miss depending on the program because they are doing orientation training for the new residents. Contacting a month out from when you want to visit is good.

 

[dandoonpezz]

Southern Illinois University’s ortho program became accredited in 2022 and has its first class of 2 residents. I am currently trying to decide whether it would be better to interview and potentially attend the program or attend an internship and reapply this year. Anybody have any suggestions or know anything more about the SIU program?

 

[Faefly]

Southern Illinois University’s ortho program became accredited in 2022 and has its first class of 2 residents. I am currently trying to decide whether it would be better to interview and potentially attend the program or attend an internship and reapply this year. Anybody have any suggestions or know anything more about the SIU program?

are they doing interviews now?

 

[dandoonpezz]

are they doing interviews now?

Yup I got an email for an in person interview on Monday, Feb 13 from 8am to 2pm.

 

[Orthomaybe]

Yup I got an email for an in person interview on Monday, Feb 13 from 8am to 2pm.

I just looked it up. That's a 2 yr/very affordable program. I'm confused why is this even a question for you at the moment.
GO to the interview and decide whether you want to attend or not after you get the acceptance. If the deadline wasn't back in Dec, heck I'd apply tonight too to see if I get a shot at it. (I matched to a more expensive program)

 

[Orth0]

I just looked it up. That's a 2 yr/very affordable program. I'm confused why is this even a question for you at the moment.
GO to the interview and decide whether you want to attend or not after you get the acceptance. If the deadline wasn't back in Dec, heck I'd apply tonight too to see if I get a shot at it. (I matched to a more expensive program)

Wow. The program is only 2 years and very affordable. I wish I had known about this program.

 

[dandoonpezz]

The reason why I’m unsure if I want to pursue it is because the program is completely brand new. They welcomed their first class of 2 residents in the Fall of 2022 so if I were to be accepted I would only be the second class to graduate from the program. There’s still no statistics for board certification, cases started/finished etc. Wouldn’t it be better to attend a more established program even if it’s more expensive?

 

[Orthomaybe]

The reason why I’m unsure if I want to pursue it is because the program is completely brand new. They welcomed their first class of 2 residents in the Fall of 2022 so if I were to be accepted I would only be the second class to graduate from the program. There’s still no statistics for board certification, cases started/finished etc. Wouldn’t it be better to attend a more established program even if it’s more expensive?

You have a point, I understand the uncertainty. However, I think 5yrs from now, your point is moot because everyone here would be a great orthodontist since you will learn so much out in the world the few years after you graduate. (similar to dental school)
I'd apply to those internship or plan to work for a year and reapply BUT DEFINITELY go to that interview and check it out - worry bout it after you get your acceptance.

 

[bracketbuster68]

The reason why I’m unsure if I want to pursue it is because the program is completely brand new. They welcomed their first class of 2 residents in the Fall of 2022 so if I were to be accepted I would only be the second class to graduate from the program. There’s still no statistics for board certification, cases started/finished etc. Wouldn’t it be better to attend a more established program even if it’s more expensive?

Uhh you should 100000% interview there and not do an internship. Board certification and cases started do not make you a good orthodontist. You will learn what you need to know and the rest comes with experience.

 

[Faefly]

Yup I got an email for an in person interview on Monday, Feb 13 from 8am to 2pm.

Congratulations. you should def go.

 

[BracketDreamin]

To current residents and orthodontists, how and what do you study during residency? What resources are best and how exactly would you approach what to study without getting too overwhelmed with the number of resources? Thanks for the advice in advance!

 

[Faefly]

Did anyone recieve a decision email from Jackson..how do we know our pin.
It is probably rejection..but how do we know our pin ?

 

[Penn2024]

hey I got a 154 in QR, 149 in Verbal and a 5 on the Analytical Writing of the GRE. Do I need to/should I retake it?

 

[merag.rm9000]

Did anyone recieve a decision email from Jackson..how do we know our pin.
It is probably rejection..but how do we know our pin ?

Did anyone recieve a decision email from Jackson..how do we know our pin.
It is probably rejection..but how do we know our pin ?

Hi,
I received a rejection letter. You should go to ada website where you cheched NBDE results. Maybe your dentpin is saved there.

 

[OrthoSmile 2020]

Hi everyone,
Are there school consider DAT exam instead of GRE? it I should take GRE?
If yes, what materials you used to prepare for it? Would you recommend any courses?

 

[Orthomaybe]

Hi everyone,
Are there school consider DAT exam instead of GRE? it I should take GRE?
If yes, what materials you used to prepare for it? Would you recommend any courses?

Instead of GRE..? I don't think so (I'm sure ppl will correct me if I'm wrong lol). I know some program take DAT into consideration. Most programs want GRE. For some, its optional. Personally, Magoosh was helpful for me.

 

[hawaian_macadamia]

Name of Ortho Program: Western program
Dental School Attended: Eastern program
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: None
International Student (yes/no): No
INBDE scores: Pass
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: Verbal: 165, Quant: 158, AWA: 4.5
Class Rank: Top 10%
Match/Non-Match: Match only
Research: Two publications and two posters in dental school, one publication and three posters from college
Extracurriculars: Volunteer related club president, peer tutor, orientation leader, ortho volunteering and shadowing, various other dental related volunteering
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 25/14/10/10

 

[merag.rm9000]

Has anybody heard from internships yet?

 

[doctorortho]

Guys, I took my GRE at home around a month ago and just got an email that my scores have been cancelled. I asked around and found out around 40k at home tests of the citizens of a couple of countries have been invalidated regardless of where they took the test. Has anyone else been affected by this? Luckily for me I can still re-take but some have been banned 😳

 

[Fred13]

Hi everyone l,
Would you please help me, I want to know which programs are in Match but are not in PASS? I mean which programs have their own applications process and we need to apply separately??
I appreciate your response

 

[OncePreDent]

Hi everyone l,
Would you please help me, I want to know which programs are in Match but are not in PASS? I mean which programs have their own applications process and we need to apply separately??
I appreciate your response

Accredited Orthodontic Programs

www2.aaoinfo.org

^ shows all the programs that are Match, Non-match, PASS & No PASS.

 

[Lemillion]

Hi everyone l,
Would you please help me, I want to know which programs are in Match but are not in PASS? I mean which programs have their own applications process and we need to apply separately??
I appreciate your response

ADEA PASS® Program Finder

programpages.passweb.org

In addition to the AAO link posted earlier too

 

[paamp]

Accredited Orthodontic Programs

www2.aaoinfo.org

^ shows all the programs that are Match, Non-match, PASS & No PASS.

this list doesn't have SIU, does that mean that program isn't accredited?

 

[Lemillion]

this list doesn't have SIU, does that mean that program isn't accredited?

I don't think the AAO has updated the list officially in a while. Some of the tuition prices and chair faculty positions for the programs are outdated.

I would check SIU's website and see about accreditation.

 

[Faefly]

I have a question about CE courses, so say I get like 10 credits CE courses in some Ortho course online, do we include that in our CV? how does it work, because I have been hearing CE courses help that it shows our interest into the field, but how do we show that we took them. Do we mention them in our Personal statement, do we put the course title and info in our CV and call it Continuing Education part?
FInally I saw an online Ortho course that a bit costy but they say the CE is like 70 hours.. I wonder if that is a good thing to go through if we can afford it?

Edit: after google search- It turns out we can add them to education or professional development section

 

[Penn2024]

If I do not get into a residency, it is better to do a 1 year internship or GPR before reapplying?

 

[wafflemire]

this list doesn't have SIU, does that mean that program isn't accredited?

Interviewed at SIU in Feb. They are accredited. Just brand new so not on some websites like AAO. They’re in PASS though.

 

[Orthomaybe]

Hey, y'all! So I am interested in specializing in Ortho, and I will be starting my D1 year of dental school at Roseman University (P/F) 3-year program in June. I was wondering if anyone in here has experience/heard of any difficulty getting into ortho from a P/F program or 3-year program (UoP)?

A little about me:

I am currently researching w/dental faculty and plan to be published in 2-3 papers while attending dental school. I also plan on joining different clubs and get more involved in dental school as well (entrepreneurship, mentoring, etc.). If anyone has any recommendations, it would be greatly appreciated.

Additionally, I took the GRE in Feb 2021 (not sure if it will be valid when I apply to Ortho).
My scores were: VR - 154 QR - 154 AW - 5.5
View attachment 367769
Are my scores too low? Do they expire like the DAT? I won't be applying for Ortho until 2025.

I have some free time right now and was wondering if I should retake the GRE to get higher scores because I will be attending a P/F program. I will be applying for Ortho residency in 3-years, and I would prefer to retake it before dental school starts if I have to. Everyone's insight is extremely helpful!

Thank you!

Don't think it matter if it's P/F or 3 yrs program (if anything it should help if you are not the top % of your class).
If you can have the resume you plan on having (research, other extracurricular) from what you mentioned then you are going to be in good shape.
I think GRE has a 5 year expiration date. I'd personally would be happy if I got your GRE score, although some ppl here might say quantitative might be a bit low since its lower than 50th percentile. (I think writing > quant imo)
If I were in your position, I'd just go enjoy your life before dental school lol

 

[OncePreDent]

Don't think it matter if it's P/F or 3 yrs program (if anything it should help if you are not the top % of your class).
If you can have the resume you plan on having (research, other extracurricular) from what you mentioned then you are going to be in good shape.
I think GRE has a 5 year expiration date. I'd personally would be happy if I got your GRE score, although some ppl here might say quantitative might be a bit low since its lower than 50th percentile. (I think writing > quant imo)
If I were in your position, I'd just go enjoy your life before dental school lol

Thanks for your input; it's greatly appreciated! I'll plan to take it easy for the next couple of months then and if I need to retake the GRE I'll take it my D2 year. I'll have a nice relaxing couple of months before the big grind lol

 

[paamp]

Interviewed at SIU in Feb. They are accredited. Just brand new so not on some websites like AAO. They’re in PASS though.

mind sharing your stats

 

[rellyonflash]

Hey there! If love some advice on my chances/what I can be doing to increase my chances to match Ortho this cycle.
My stats are as follows:
I graduated from a pass/fail school in 2022 (no rank, but they stratified me in my institutional letter between top 10% and bottom 5 % in everything but clinical studies where I was top 10%)

I have a healthy dose of extracurriculars and leadership positions, everything from national and chapter level ASDA, class council, TA-ing and intramural sports captain.

I did research related to digital dentistry and though I never was part of a publication, we presented at a school-sponsored research symposium and won 2nd prize.

My GRE scores are 161 quant, 160 verbal, 5 writing.

My letters are all coming from faculty members (no orthodontic faculty or research related faculty, will be asking for one from my own orthodontist who I’ve worked for before)

I’m currently finishing an AEGD and have accrued almost 50 hours of CE, mostly related to implantology with a small dose of Itero training. I’ll be working for a private practice GP this year. Hopefully investing in some Invisalign CE.

My biggest blemish is that I did not pass NBDE 1 on my first try. My test day itself was a mess because of some things in my personal/family life, but I cant change the way things are so I’m just trying to overcome it.

I’m planning to apply very very broadly, I just want to be an orthodontist and I’ll go wherever that can happen.

Thanks for your advisement, let me know if there’s anything I can do to further strengthen my chances.

 

[ddsdmd2022]

Hey there! If love some advice on my chances/what I can be doing to increase my chances to match Ortho this cycle.
My stats are as follows:
I graduated from a pass/fail school in 2022 (no rank, but they stratified me in my institutional letter between top 10% and bottom 5 % in everything but clinical studies where I was top 10%)

I have a healthy dose of extracurriculars and leadership positions, everything from national and chapter level ASDA, class council, TA-ing and intramural sports captain.

I did research related to digital dentistry and though I never was part of a publication, we presented at a school-sponsored research symposium and won 2nd prize.

My GRE scores are 161 quant, 160 verbal, 5 writing.

My letters are all coming from faculty members (no orthodontic faculty or research related faculty, will be asking for one from my own orthodontist who I’ve worked for before)

I’m currently finishing an AEGD and have accrued almost 50 hours of CE, mostly related to implantology with a small dose of Itero training. I’ll be working for a private practice GP this year. Hopefully investing in some Invisalign CE.

My biggest blemish is that I did not pass NBDE 1 on my first try. My test day itself was a mess because of some things in my personal/family life, but I cant change the way things are so I’m just trying to overcome it.

I’m planning to apply very very broadly, I just want to be an orthodontist and I’ll go wherever that can happen.

Thanks for your advisement, let me know if there’s anything I can do to further strengthen my chances.

Hey! I feel like we are in similar places and all we can do is apply broadly and hope for the best! If you need any help or anything along this journey, feel free to message me. Anyways, the way I look at it is that we try our best and if it doesn’t work out, then realize that people die to be in our positions as GPs and can always reapply. All the best.

 

[rellyonflash]

Hey! I feel like we are in similar places and all we can do is apply broadly and hope for the best! If you need any help or anything along this journey, feel free to message me. Anyways, the way I look at it is that we try our best and if it doesn’t work out, then realize that people die to be in our positions as GPs and can always reapply. All the best.

Yeah I’m trying so hard to make peace with it! I’ve wanted to be an orthodontist since grade school and it guts me that because of essentially one bad day it may simply be an impossibility. Here’s hoping things work out for us!

 

[gryffindor]

My letters are all coming from faculty members (no orthodontic faculty or research related faculty, will be asking for one from my own orthodontist who I’ve worked for before)

I’m currently finishing an AEGD and have accrued almost 50 hours of CE, mostly related to implantology with a small dose of Itero training. I’ll be working for a private practice GP this year. Hopefully investing in some Invisalign CE.

Try to get more letters from orthodontists even if they're not faculty, rather than random faculty members. Highlight your CE, but it doesn't have to be ortho. Taking Invisalign CE as a GP is not particularly impressive IMO so no need to rush to do it and especially don't spend money doing it. Use that money to apply to more programs.

 

[rellyonflash]

Gotcha! Yeah I was going to asl for a letter from my orthodontist who I’ve worked for growing up, and maybe see if his former partner would be interested too. I don’t know him as well, but he was well known in our region.

Try to get more letters from orthodontists even if they're not faculty, rather than random faculty members. Highlight your CE, but it doesn't have to be ortho. Taking Invisalign CE as a GP is not particularly impressive IMO so no need to rush to do it and especially don't spend money doing it. Use that money to apply to more programs

 

[merag.rm9000]

Is there gonna be a thread for 2024 ortho cycle?

 

[veryhappylabrador]

Is there gonna be a thread for 2024 ortho cycle?

Just posted it

 

[Doctor in the making]

Why? I’m in the Fellowship, but Georgia has openings. If I get in Georgia I may ditch the fellowship since it’s an actual program. Thoughts?

Hey man hope it all worked out well for you! Just wanted to ask were you able to get into Georgia program? Also does completion of Jacksonville’s fellowship offer guaranteed acceptance into the Jacksonville Ortho program?

 

[doctorortho]

Guys, considering that we have to either apply to match or non match program, wouldn't that make non match programs less competitive? Majority of the applicants apply to match programs. What do you think?

 

[Lemillion]

Guys, considering that we have to either apply to match or non match program, wouldn't that make non match programs less competitive? Majority of the applicants apply to match programs. What do you think?

Did they change the policy this cycle match or non match only? Typically a good portion of candidates will apply to both sides. Some non match ones I interviewed at had some very qualified candidates. Even though those that have a strong chance of matching to a program will take a non match position if it is offered. I interviewed at one non match program where most of the residents were in the top of the class and said they had multiple interviews to match programs but was afraid of not matching so take it the opportunity when presented.

Most non match program directors did mention that usually no one turns down an offer from them as well. One caveat though is some applicants will take a non match spot, hold it until match day, match to a program and then call back to the non match to decline the position. When applying to non match program you'll want to ask yourself if you get an acceptance would you take it and withdraw from match? Every cycle there will be someone posting about how they have a non match acceptance but have a dream program they want to match at and torn over what to do. Some thoughts to consider! Long story short, maybe not as wide of an applicant pool as match-only applicants but still very competitive amongst the non-match applicants.

 

[doctorortho]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Are there any repercussions for calling an acceptance from a non-match program off after you get the match results?

 

[Lemillion]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Are there any repercussions for calling an acceptance from a non-match program off after you get the match results?

Have not heard of any true repercussions (I.e. getting your acceptance revoked or banned). However, you will burn a bridge with the non match program and the speciality world is a small one so it could come back to bite you at some point. I had a colleague who went to a non match program somewhere and said it would happen every cycle where someone declines their non match acceptance after matching. They would lose their acceptance deposit which at that time was a few thousands dollars. I wouldn't recommend this route...too stressful knowing that it has been done but couldn't do it myself.

 

[Faefly]

Guys, considering that we have to either apply to match or non match program, wouldn't that make non match programs less competitive? Majority of the applicants apply to match programs. What do you think?

What do you mean, we can't apply to both this year?

 

[orthodream1]

What do you mean, we can't apply to both this year?

I am seeing now that a lot of match programs require applicants to require to match only schools for their app to be considered.

 

[Faefly]

I am seeing now that a lot of match programs require applicants to require to match only schools for their app to be considered.

that's like a really low move, as if they are forcing people to choose already and limit their choices without having guarantees that they will even be invited.
and how would they know people applied to non-match programs too?

 

[paamp]

that's like a really low move, as if they are forcing people to choose already and limit their choices without having guarantees that they will even be invited.
and how would they know people applied to non-match programs too?

From what I've seen Umich has something about running a check to see if you've applied to nonmatch, other schools just make you sign an "agreement", presumably they can reach out to nonmatch program directors?

 

[Faefly]

Interesting. I saw VCU wants people to sign an agreement or something, but like why they are doing that, it's like a fight against themselves, but it's not like Match programs are losing anyway, they hardely ever having any empty spots when it comes to ortho, especially a program as known as Umich.