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- Pre-Dental
Facts Case is a fire program. I went on a lot of interviews and had them very very high. Med school cost and time on service is negligible when they get out a full year early…
LSU Nola has the highest that I know of at 45 months on serviceWhat is the highest number of OMS training months in the current programs and whuxh programs are they?
Is it that personal? Can’t you handle some reality check? Poor guy!Why are you getting personal about things? Michigan and Case are both excellent programs with high quality training. The point of my post was to say that more months of OMS doesn’t mean better training program.
How many years of ecfmg certification is given? 2 or 3y? When do you take step exams?Texas A&M 6-Year
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Year 1: 7 months OMS, 5 months MS-2
Year 2: 12 months MS-3
Year 3: 12 months OMS (MS-4)
Year 4: 7 months General Surgery, 5 months Anesthesia
Year 5: 5 months OMS, 4 months ENT/plastics rotation at an offsite hospital with Dr. Yadro Ducic, 2 months TMJ/orthognathic rotation at Baylor with Dr. Larry Wolford, 1 month Oculoplastics rotation at Baylor with Dr. Grant Gilland
Year 6: 12 months OMS
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That is a total of 36 months dedicated to OMS. We have great resident culture, friendly faculty and love having externs so please message me if you have more questions.
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Texas A&M College of Medicine in Dallas: Pay tuition for 3 years x 17.5K each year = $52,500 total tuition cost
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Stipend Break down before taxes:
Year 1: $52,000
Year 2: $52,000
Year 3: $52,000
Year 4: $68,926
Year 5: $70,994
Year 6: $73,301
Hahah I’m not changing anything. There are plenty of OMS’s who’ve completed more training after. I don’t even know who you are. You should worry about your own future plans if you’re a resident somewhere rather than talking smack about programs and picking arguments with their residents.Is it that personal? Can’t you handle some reality check? Poor guy!
If it was that good, why are you changing profession, pumpkin pie?
I forgot, Michigan graduates leader In other fields.
If you can’t handle the truth buddy, don’t comment, or comment and be a good Michigan resident and accept the feedback
Is there a list of all programs? I think I saw once somewhere but can’t find itLSU Nola has the highest that I know of at 45 months on service
Step 1: Exam taken in March, this is after completing the 7 months of OMS. You get 1 month of dedicated study time priorHow many years of ecfmg certification is given? 2 or 3y? When do you take step exams?
Dude why are you so angry? Let people do what they want with their careers. @GimmeTheScalpel will be doing more good for patients in need with his additional training.Is it that personal? Can’t you handle some reality check? Poor guy!
If it was that good, why are you changing profession, pumpkin pie?
I forgot, Michigan graduates leader In other fields.
If you can’t handle the truth buddy, don’t comment, or comment and be a good Michigan resident and accept the feedback
That plenty you are talking about is 2-3 out of 200 graduates a year, or even less! No one will do extra “ 3 years” after 6 years to waste private practice money.Hahah I’m not changing anything. There are plenty of OMS’s who’ve completed more training after. I don’t even know who you are. You should worry about your own future plans if you’re a resident somewhere rather than talking smack about programs and picking arguments with their residents.
You’re not a resident. Anyway I’m proud of UM. So do you think Dr. Posnick and Diercks wasted private practice money? You’re not even in our field so your opinion isn’t necessary but thanks bud.That plenty you are talking about is 2-3 out of 200 graduates a year, or even less! No one will do extra “ 3 years” after 6 years to waste private practice money.
When your mentors are “ so good”, they inspire you to carry on the legacy! A responsibility that you will never know.
Every program out there has positivities and negatives, if you can’t handle people’s opinion, a fundamental right for everyone, then brush it off, you don’t have to reach out to people and ask them to take comments down when you can handle basic debate.
You know exactly what I am talking about. So don’t be a hypocrite
Angry general dentist lurking the OMS forums lolDude why are you so angry? Let people do what they want with their careers. @GimmeTheScalpel will be doing more good for patients in need with his additional training.
Boss you have no idea what you’re talking aboutThat plenty you are talking about is 2-3 out of 200 graduates a year, or even less! No one will do extra “ 3 years” after 6 years to waste private practice money.
When your mentors are “ so good”, they inspire you to carry on the legacy! A responsibility that you will never know.
Every program out there has positivities and negatives, if you can’t handle people’s opinion, a fundamental right for everyone, then brush it off, you don’t have to reach out to people and ask them to take comments down when you can handle basic debate.
You know exactly what I am talking about. So don’t be a hypocrite
That seems awfully high if half the residents go on to do a fellowship. Curious do Michigan residents feel they need to do a fellowship because they lack autonomy and got subpar surgical experience?Michigan is 31 months lol, we train exceptional surgeons half of whom go onto fellowship and become leaders in the field. It’s about quality of training and who your teachers are, not quantity
No usually to do head and neck surgery or pediatric craniofacial surgery residents do a focused fellowship. The overwhelming majority of the OMS community would disagree with your comment but given that this is your first post I’m sure you’re trolling hard my friend.That seems awfully high if half the residents go on to do a fellowship. Curious do Michigan residents feel they need to do a fellowship because they lack autonomy and got subpar surgical experience?
aren’t we all?Boss you have no idea what you’re talking about
You’re probably just a dentist
Hey man,aren’t we all?
To loop back around to why there were more unmatched spots this year, what benefit do certain program directors gain from not ranking all their interviewed applicants, or is it just they may have not interviewed enough applicants?
I am a current non-categorical intern at this program and have enjoyed my time here! I can say that my experience here has been invaluable and without a doubt helped me gain interviews and ultimately match this year! Last year all 3 non-cats matched as well! Did I mention this program has post call days. The rising chiefs are fantastic to work with and hard workers. Phoenix is a great city to live in and offers a variety of things to do on your time off. I would highly recommend this internship to anyone that is looking to strengthen their application and broaden their knowledge base before next cycle. Please feel free to DM me if you have any questionsUniversity of Arizona College of Medicine - Phoenix OMFS Residency Program
We are currently recruiting for TWO non-categorical positions for upcoming 2025-2026.
We have posted a introduction of our program in the following thread
University of Arizona College of Medicine - Phoenix OMFS Residency Program
Please contact our program coordinator Lori Warren at [email protected] , and CC future chief residents [email protected], [email protected] with the following information:
-CV
-Personal statement
-CBSE score (not required if planning to take upcoming test)
-Transcript (official or unofficial)
-2 letters of recommendation, preferred 3
We look forward to hearing from you! Our chief residents will call you TODAY if you show any interest, please include your phone number in the email.
Well - some people simply just don't fit the culture or honestly came off VERY, to put it bluntly, weird in the interview. There were a few folks we instantly black balled / unranked just because they said some pretty off-putting things. So that cuts the rank list down. Thankfully we matched all of our spots this year however I did feel that there could have been more interview spots offered at the beginning (there were less spots offered than last year). Additionally, unfortunately the forum followers here may be surprised but the CBSE scores across the board simply are not as high as SDN makes it out to be. Folks here are typically a different type of student that might have the high score already but the applicants by and large have pretty low scores (think majority sub 70). Due to that, immediately the medical school would not accept those applicants who are sub 70 and the pool is shrunk, thus driving more 4 year competition since that's their only shot.To loop back around to why there were more unmatched spots this year, what benefit do certain program directors gain from not ranking all their interviewed applicants, or is it just they may have not interviewed enough applicants?
This guy has absolutely no clue what he's talking about - in what world do you think any residency across any discipline doesn't have an aspect of "free labor"? How else do you learn? Do you just go in day 1 and go about doing a Lefort? You assist, you hold suction, and you learn the principles before you touch the patient. Some programs don't have a cosmetic aspect offered at all in their training - for those that value that as part of their residency Case is a great experience to be exposed to that. You're an absolute idiot... stay in your lane and get into a program first bud.In addition that PD is barely there, and the rest of week, he is devoted to his private practice that he takes his resident there to help him, “ cosmetic rotation” he says! I say it is free labor!
everyone thought 5 years is a good thing yet you end up with 32 months of OS! Idk how good is that.
Well - some people simply just don't fit the culture or honestly came off VERY, to put it bluntly, weird in the interview. There were a few folks we instantly black balled / unranked just because they said some pretty off-putting things. So that cuts the rank list down. Thankfully we matched all of our spots this year however I did feel that there could have been more interview spots offered at the beginning (there were less spots offered than last year). Additionally, unfortunately the forum followers here may be surprised but the CBSE scores across the board simply are not as high as SDN makes it out to be. Folks here are typically a different type of student that might have the high score already but the applicants by and large have pretty low scores (think majority sub 70). Due to that, immediately the medical school would not accept those applicants who are sub 70 and the pool is shrunk, thus driving more 4 year competition since that's their only shot.
I do agree though - of the folks that do have the score, 6 YR programs simply need to extend more interviews because it seems like it's just the same cohort of high scoring "normal" individuals being ranked at every program and in the end there's not enough to go around.
This guy has absolutely no clue what he's talking about - in what world do you think any residency across any discipline doesn't have an aspect of "free labor"? How else do you learn? Do you just go in day 1 and go about doing a Lefort? You assist, you hold suction, and you learn the principles before you touch the patient. Some programs don't have a cosmetic aspect offered at all in their training - for those that value that as part of their residency Case is a great experience to be exposed to that. You're an absolute idiot... stay in your lane and get into a program first bud.
Case PD is clear on CBSE score. He said one need the score which is equal to Step 1 PASS. It makes sense also because there is no point taking a applicant who might not PASS. I am sure it's the same story with other 6 yr programs. They don't want to lose med school accreditation. Low scores doesn't set well for them. It's a fair game for both the applicant and the program. 4 years need not stress on clearing the steps, etc. So a score below the step 1 PASS will work. Its now up to the applicants what other things they are looking for in the program which becomes a deciding factor to Rank the program.What was the average CBSE invited to interview there?
Check DM.I also thought Case Western was a pretty decent program and ranked it relatively high. In terms of opportunity cost, one less year of medical school is a pretty sweet deal. As an applicant, I found that the vast majority of the programs I interviewed with were well-structured and relatively comparable to each other. Of course, no program is perfect. I aimed to avoid programs with >24 months of medical school and/or high tuition costs, long general surgery time, or an unbalanced scope heavily skewed toward HN cancer at the expense of core OMS training. Some programs isolate HN cancer to a rotation, which seemed far more preferable to me. Most programs appeared to have good culture, though there were a few outliers. Other things I hadn’t even thought to ask about or consider were whether sedations/cases are solo or split and whether the anesthesia rotations are solo or paired. It’s probably one of those situations where you get out what you put in, but still maybe worth considering. For me, strong core OMS and anesthesia training were what mattered most, and I wasn’t willing to compromise on those. I also placed a lot of importance on a decent, safe location and lower cost of living. While some programs might offer more rigorous training or unique opportunities, it seemed that most would prepare you well. In the end, it’s often just a personal decision based on location, culture, and where you feel you fit best.
never thought Id see MGH go unmatched... that's pretty crazyPost match positions
FL, Jacksonville
University of Florida Health - Jacksonville
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 122312 Positions: 1
GA, Atlanta
Emory University
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 111212 Positions: 2
LA, Shreveport
Louisiana State University- Shreveport
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 122211 Positions: 1
MA, Boston
Massachusetts General Hospital
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 117511 Positions: 2
MD, Baltimore
University of Maryland
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 112311 Positions: 2
MI, Warren
Ascension Macomb-Oakland Hospital
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 117811 Positions: 2
MO, Kansas City
University of Missouri/Truman Medical Center
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 113111 Positions: 1
NC, Chapel Hill
University of North Carolina
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 113911 Positions: 1
NY, Buffalo
State University of New York at Buffalo
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 113611 Positions: 1
NY, New Hyde Park
Long Island Jewish Medical Center
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 119211 Positions: 1
NY, New York
Harlem Hospital Center
OMS-4 YR
Code: 119311 Positions: 1
NY, New York
Mount Sinai/Jacobi/Einstein College of Med
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 115111 Positions: 1
OH, Cleveland
Case Western Reserve University
OMS-5 YR-MD REQD
Code: 114011 Positions: 2
TN, Knoxville
University of Tennessee Med Ctr - Knoxville
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 121112 Positions: 2
TN, Nashville
Vanderbilt University Medical Center
OMS-6 YR-MD REQD
Code: 121211 Positions: 1
Something about med school limiting how many people they could rank. I assume this was a similar case for many of the programs on that list. I posted a comment on the previous page with my thoughts about how 6-year programs can't expect to be successful if they keep limiting their rank lists. It's a really a shame for both the applicants and the programs.never thought Id see MGH go unmatched... that's pretty crazy
wonder what happened there
Seconding that if you're above the med school pass (something like a 67 EPC I believe nowadays?), your foot is in the door for most 6 yr programs. Obviously, the higher you go the better. I believe the CBSE that interviewed at my program ranged something from 74-89 EPC - though once you're at the interview stage, a higher score will not trump program compatibility and what you say during the interview. So for all future applicants - just do as well as you can above 67 EPC and focus on the interview, don't stress about a couple points here and there.What was the average CBSE invited to interview there?
Isn’t it 63 EPCSeconding that if you're above the med school pass (something like a 67 EPC I believe nowadays?), your foot is in the door for most 6 yr programs. Obviously, the higher you go the better. I believe the CBSE that interviewed at my program ranged something from 74-89 EPC - though once you're at the interview stage, a higher score will not trump program compatibility and what you say during the interview. So for all future applicants - just do as well as you can above 67 EPC and focus on the interview, don't stress about a couple points here and there.
I’d imagine most, if not all, are already filled. Probably most filled by Friday afternoon.What happened to those unfilled program, all spots filled?
Just a friendly reminder to future applicants that MONTHS ON SERVICE does not always mean betterWhat is the highest number of OMS training months in the current programs and whuxh programs are they?
Any resident at any program has the opportunity to become a great surgeon or can instead do the bare minimum and be dragged to the finish line by their attendings. Have you operated with a graduated surgeon from all of the programs you've listed? There are programs on your "busy" list where attendings do the majority of cutting so your "pure cold numbers" are not so cut and dryJust a friendly reminder to future applicants that MONTHS ON SERVICE does not always mean better
PURE COLD NUMBERS and DIVERSITY OF CASES of a program trumps all - though more months at a well established program DOES typically mean better. Do your due diligence.
34 months at UCLA / UCSF / Columbia / MGH / various NYC programs and other country club programs still doesn't make you even half the surgeon 17 months at a busy program like Parkland / LSUs / U of Washington / Rutgers / Maryland / Alabama / Montefiore / Medstar / Banner ETC. (Not an exhaustive list just random super busy programs that came to mind). This idea was emphasized by nearly every program director on the trail.
Not cutting enough gnathics and Case is for sure pushing the Woke narrative and I think people are pretty over it. I interviewed there awhile back and I felt that the desirability was really falling. Just my personal opinion. No shade on you or the training at case just some thoughts.I was shocked. Have you guys heard of anything negative about Case that would’ve chased people away?
I think you’re right that a lot of applicants had us near the top of their list (spoke with a couple who had us #2 or #3), but those applicants were lucky enough to match at their #1.
And my guess is that we probably didn’t rank enough of the people we interviewed, but idk 🤷♂️ we (the residents) aren’t involved with the rank list, so I’m not sure what happened.
If you went unmatched and have a good CBSE score, definitely get in touch with Case. We have a good group of residents and a great program setup.
Won't argue with that! The program doesn't always make the surgeon as there needs to be a level of self sufficiency as well - but the cases themselves need to be present in the program for a resident to be fully exposed, and the teaching also needs to be there, so it definitely is more nuanced than numbers alone. I'd add to my original post too that - just because there IS VOLUME doesn't mean you'll always be better trained, but I'd stand by the idea that the numbers and the cases should be there at baseline for your best shot. Exposure / being dragged to the finish line through 20 bilateral TJRs is still better than none.Any resident at any program has the opportunity to become a great surgeon or can instead do the bare minimum and be dragged to the finish line by their attendings. Have you operated with a graduated surgeon from all of the programs you've listed? There are programs on your "busy" list where attendings do the majority of cutting so your "pure cold numbers" are not so cut and dry
The new Program Director is an absolute travesty.........JK, Dr. Stone is a close friend and an absolute stud. Great program. IMODoes anyone have information for UT San Antonio? How is the training? How are the attendings ? In the website seems like they only have very few attending
I remember a lot about Rutgers from dental school. Waste of time if you are mainly in a point and pull clinic and barely have any FBI 3rds. Waste of time if their program doesn't let you do sedations as a non-cat. They would setup their "3rds" to be split with staff in the OR. So stupid.Rutgers 6yr has good setup
86k tuition for med school total (2yrs, 43k a year)
You get paid full PGY salary every year
46mo on service, can be 47mo if you use your med school elective on Omfs. I believe we are tied for highest if not highest in the country.
Why I don’t see this program being listed as the busy/great programs in the forums ? Just trying to know more about this programThe new Program Director is an absolute travesty.........JK, Dr. Stone is a close friend and an absolute stud. Great program. IMO
lol as a non-white in a southern program, there are probably more examples of people not getting in BECAUSE they are white as opposed to the contrary.I remember a lot about Rutgers from dental school. Waste of time if you are mainly in a point and pull clinic and barely have any FBI 3rds. Waste of time if their program doesn't let you do sedations as a non-cat. They would setup their "3rds" to be split with staff in the OR. So stupid.
The residents barely had any trauma call and had big egos for no reason.
Their halls drills would break all the time, the clinic was antiquated. Dental students were better than their Ivy-league categorical interns at taking out teeth. The fact that they let sub-50 CBSE score people become OMFS with bad class ranks is an insult to our field.
anyone with any talent in OMFS trains at southern or midwestern 4 or 6 year programs, Michigan, UDubs, Oregon. Time spent on OMFS service doesn't mean you get good training if the quality of training is poor.
To all of you kids in school thinking about how to match and rank programs who hasn't had any experience as a resident;
The best program is the one you can enter. Please extern around the country. Some programs won't take you because of your cbse score, the fact you didn't do a non-cat, the fact that your skin color isn't white (yes, it still exists), or your parent isn't a physician or you aren't from an Ivy League.
These PDs, chairman, and institutions actually have their own agendas.
Control what you can control: do well on the CBSE, get a good class rank. treat people in your life well. Things will naturally fall into place. we all have our own journeys. If you are applying out of school: just do the 6.
Its harder to match into a 6 year program the further you are out of school and the MD actually will bring you more happiness than a non-guaranteed non-cat position will.
Not everyone is in the "forums".Why I don’t see this program being listed as the busy/great programs in the forums ? Just trying to know more about this program