The Grad School Thread

[PrincessButterCup]

I really appreciate that you guys are helping me talk through this identity/career crisis, or whatever it is I'm going though. ❤️ Thanks for all your input.

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[nyanko]

My boss doesn't love it because she doesn't think there's really time to master either subject, so you come away with less biology than other programs and less programming than 'real' bioinformatics programs. Which yes, is definitely something to consider.

This would be my concern as well. This is a really rapidly changing and growing field. As more and more people come out with actual intensive bioinformatics training, I think that the positions will become a lot more competitive. The 'bioinformatics' based post-docs I know are all very much on the programming side, and that might not have been true 5 years ago.

 

[nyanko]

In fact, when I came here, I was roped into doing a lot of that sort of pipeline work for my advisor simply because I was computer literate. In the 3 years since I've been here, it's evolved to the point where I now have to do very little of that work on my own, even though I can.

 

[Balesofhay]

There's also the 'stay in a livestock program or switch to human science' quandary.

So I switched from ag to human and I’m still doing basically what I like. I still work with animals. Just piglets and not chickens. Pm me if you want to talk

 

[Balesofhay]

 

[Frozenshades]

So I switched from ag to human and I’m still doing basically what I like. I still work with animals. Just piglets and not chickens. Pm me if you want to talk

So you can no longer identify yourself as a chicken tender? How disappointing.

 

[Balesofhay]

So you can no longer identify yourself as a chicken tender? How disappointing.

Darn it. I wish I would’ve thought of that sooner. I still am master of chickens though. They can’t take the degree away (I hope)

 

[supershorty]

Vent: online courses that post resource videos that are 15-20 minutes long and you get to the end and discover that nothing in the video was relevant to what it was supposed to be helping with are so frustrating.

Caveat: I am biased because I don't much care for learning off of videos (why am I in an online course, you ask? Because it was the only way my schedule worked) and I'm learning coding as a completely non-tech person, so that's definitely coloring my opinion. But videos that waste everyone's time and don't teach you anything would frustrate me regardless of the subject.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Vent: online courses that post resource videos that are 15-20 minutes long and you get to the end and discover that nothing in the video was relevant to what it was supposed to be helping with are so frustrating.

Caveat: I am biased because I don't much care for learning off of videos (why am I in an online course, you ask? Because it was the only way my schedule worked) and I'm learning coding as a completely non-tech person, so that's definitely coloring my opinion. But videos that waste everyone's time and don't teach you anything would frustrate me regardless of the subject.

I feel this. Videos are the worst. Just give me something I can skim through, please. What type of coding are you doing?


My PI was in the lab today and we were joking about my organizational skills, or current lack thereof. I have stacks of papers covering every available space on my desk, and the bench beside my desk, and then on the seat of an extra chair I've pulled up to be an extension of my desk. (I have a problem, I realize this.) It's not even organized chaos, it's just a chaotic explosion of paper that's been building for the past few weeks. Boss was like, why don't you use this filing cabinet that's RIGHT HERE beside your desk? And she opens it. And it's full, completely full, of cell culture flasks.

I don't think I've ever seen her laugh so hard. We ordered a ton of flasks all at once at the beginning of the summer and I didn't have anywhere to put them! So they're kind of everywhere. Two different cupboards, on some shelves, and then in the actual cell culture room. And, uh, in the filing cabinet.

 

[Lupin21]

Thought I'd check in to make sure everyone is doing okay here. I had many dark times in PhD work, so I'm here to say if you need a sympathetic ear to complain about anything, I will listen as I said hell naw to this after 2 years.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Thought I'd check in to make sure everyone is doing okay here. I had many dark times in PhD work, so I'm here to say if you need a sympathetic ear to complain about anything, I will listen as I said hell naw to this after 2 years.

Hello! I'm constantly overwhelmed and there's never enough time to get everything done, but so far I'm keeping my head above water. Mostly.

I'm about 1.5 years in and so far 95% of my stress is money related. I'll probably end up staying here even though I hate paying tuition for a graduate degree, but I get along well with my PI and I love the projects I'm on so that's making it hard to decide to leave. I'm taking every opportunity to win/apply for scholarships possible right now.

 

[Frozenshades]

Dissertating. Figuring out wtf job I want and can get, but also still waiting for everything to crumble and them to kick me out as a sham. You know, the usual.

 

[supershorty]

End of year 1. Have a committee that I'm super excited about, and think I have a clear direction for my thesis. I feel like I haven't gotten a lot done this year, but I did make the model and got some funding to do stuff with it.

Next semester is my last semester where I have to take classes and I'm really looking forward to that. I loved class in vet school (okay, not uniformly, but in general I did), but grad school classes have just felt like a time-suck that takes me out of lab, especially since I had 2 fall semesters in 1 so had almost all my credits just coming from coursework this semester.

Meeting with my adviser next week to make the plan for next semester & year, and I'm excited to get going with the meat of this. Except prelims. Not looking forward to prelims.

 

[Frozenshades]

End of year 1. Have a committee that I'm super excited about, and think I have a clear direction for my thesis. I feel like I haven't gotten a lot done this year, but I did make the model and got some funding to do stuff with it.

Next semester is my last semester where I have to take classes and I'm really looking forward to that. I loved class in vet school (okay, not uniformly, but in general I did), but grad school classes have just felt like a time-suck that takes me out of lab, especially since I had 2 fall semesters in 1 so had almost all my credits just coming from coursework this semester.

Meeting with my adviser next week to make the plan for next semester & year, and I'm excited to get going with the meat of this. Except prelims. Not looking forward to prelims.

There were a couple classes I liked, but yeah I always felt annoyed by them. I skipped a lot. Funny thing about being the veterinarian in your lab, you're expected to be a major player in all the animal studies. My advisor's feedback on graduate coursework is have less of it.

Sorry, but yeah prelims suck lol. Not sure what yours entail but you'll survive though.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I'm looking for some advice. Do you guys experience a culture of "we're grad students in the same lab so we must be best friends"?

There's one girl who I just find really hard to be around. Part of it is that she came to our lab without her own designated project and our PI put her on 2 of mine (I have 4 main projects, for reference) to help her learn some skills and fill her time a little more. So I went from working largely on my own to sharing work with her. We're physically in the lab together all day, and then my cell culture project often demands evenings/weekends/odd hours, so we were spending quite a bit of time together all last fall. Then we were made TA's for the same course, so we spent even more time together. Initially we got along really well, but after a couple of months I just started to resent having to spend so much time with her and share projects that I care about. She's had some fumbles that made me really uncomfortable having her on my projects, and especially the cell culture project - things like pipetting wildly incorrect volumes or not following proper protocols that I know I trained her on (I know it happens, and I've made mistakes too, but it bothers me that she didn't catch it herself - what else was she doing on that project and not catching?). Now even little things (like her speaking patterns or the way she tells stories) bothers me, and I have to put a lot of effort into staying friendly and hiding my frustration during the day, because - again - we're all expected to be best friends.

I'd been planning to take a certain class this spring that's highly appropriate given my thesis project, and it required a lot of planning and rearranging my schedule last summer to allow me to take it this semester. This girl decided to take the same class kind of on a whim, and mostly because I'm taking it as well. I never have a break from her. We go to class together. We sit together. We go back to the lab together. Our PI just gave her the go ahead to take lead on one project that used to be mine (she wants quicker progress than I can make because my time is promised to another high-priority thing for the next week or so) and I just don't even care anymore. She can have the project, I just don't want to work with her anymore.

She's currently a MS but she's thinking about staying for a PhD (which I am officially doing now) and I'm secretly praying she'll graduate next spring and leave. I think there's probably a 60/40 chance she'll stay.

What can I do to not let her bother me? I think she's noticed we're not as friendly as we used to be, but I don't think she realizes how much I just want space. She has a personality that takes a lot of energy to interact with. She needs a lot of validation, she likes to spend a lot of the day talking, she'll walk around the lab showing people pictures her family texts her during the day, etc. She's just a lot.

This is a much longer rant than I anticipated, lol. Has anyone else ever had to work with someone like this? What did you do to keep yourself from feeling bothered? It's not her fault that she annoys me, and I can't fake myself into actually enjoying her company. It feels like a no-win situation.

 

[PippyPony]

I wish I could help PBC but honestly I am often the clinger, not the clingee

Can you hand off one of the projects to her entirely? Request that one of you gets taken off extra duties, like the TA gig?

I'm sorry -- that whole situation sounds hard. It's almost like you got an intense spousal relationship that you didn't sign up for.

 

[PippyPony]

In thinking about this more @PrincessButterCup , it's ok to sit someone down and say "I'd like to talk about our interactions at work... since we've been spending all day every day together, I am feeling like I need a little bit of separation and some alone time during {xyz activities}. It's nothing you have done -- I am an introverted person {may be true...? may not be true...?} who needs personal space to recharge, and while I like that we have shared interests, I'm worried that if we don't take a bit of a "friend" break, I'm going start feeling irritable and grumpy, and that's neither fair to you nor conducive to a good working environment.

It's really important to me to keep our collective morale up in the lab because it's beneficial to our projects and our mental health. Could you help me with figuring out some ways for us to still be buddies but have some more individual space?"

Or something like that.

 

[that redhead]

@PrincessButterCup I feel like I could type out a million great things to say but as someone who balks at ANYTHING that seems remotely confrontational, I wouldn't honestly probably say those things myself One thing you might do is talk to your PI and express some of your concerns. "I feel like Susan and I have been working together a lot lately and while I don't mind her company, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed/feeling like it's impeding my ability to do quality work/whatever." And then presenting a solution - maybe PI can make only one of you the class TA, or maybe she can give Susan more work to do in the lab that is separate from what you're doing or with another partner or splitting the work you all share such that she comes in at certain times and you come in at other times.

 

[Frozenshades]

In thinking about this more @PrincessButterCup , it's ok to sit someone down and say "I'd like to talk about our interactions at work... since we've been spending all day every day together, I am feeling like I need a little bit of separation and some alone time during {xyz activities}. It's nothing you have done -- I am an introverted person {may be true...? may not be true...?} who needs personal space to recharge, and while I like that we have shared interests, I'm worried that if we don't take a bit of a "friend" break, I'm going start feeling irritable and grumpy, and that's neither fair to you nor conducive to a good working environment.

It's really important to me to keep our collective morale up in the lab because it's beneficial to our projects and our mental health. Could you help me with figuring out some ways for us to still be buddies but have some more individual space?"

Or something like that.

That was my thought too. Things already aren't good, so I don't think much can be lost by being polite but direct. Even if you don't explain that deeply, I think most people are not going to be too mad being told something along the lines of that you like them but you're trying to be more focused when at work. You can always make a concession to keep the peace, like we can take a coffee break or go to happy hour to bs for a bit, but otherwise please let me work undisturbed. I know you're trying to get away, but being too aggressive about it may end up being counter productive or make things worse in the long run. Especially if this person might stay and be in your sphere for years to come, I'd keep the nuclear football safely under the desk still.

What you say to your PI (if anything) definitely depends on your relationship with PI, PI's relationship with Master's student, and how they are in general. If student X goes, "huh, this wasn't what we talked about last week" and your PI is the type to blurt out, "YEAH I CHANGED THE PLAN CAUSE PBC TOLD ME YOU NEVER SHUT UP LOL" that's awkward. We all know some people who have no discretion. Personally my take would be more along the lines of, "I know you want faster results but I'm a little disappointed you're bringing other people in on my projects. It's making it harder for me to manage everything." You may lose some of that work entirely to her, but if you're good with that to cut her loose, then...Sometimes too much splitting and dividing of work just makes things more difficult.

 

[Frozenshades]

What I should be doing:

Reality:

 

[PrincessButterCup]

In thinking about this more @PrincessButterCup , it's ok to sit someone down and say "I'd like to talk about our interactions at work... since we've been spending all day every day together, I am feeling like I need a little bit of separation and some alone time during {xyz activities}. It's nothing you have done -- I am an introverted person {may be true...? may not be true...?} who needs personal space to recharge, and while I like that we have shared interests, I'm worried that if we don't take a bit of a "friend" break, I'm going start feeling irritable and grumpy, and that's neither fair to you nor conducive to a good working environment.

It's really important to me to keep our collective morale up in the lab because it's beneficial to our projects and our mental health. Could you help me with figuring out some ways for us to still be buddies but have some more individual space?"

Or something like that.

@PrincessButterCup I feel like I could type out a million great things to say but as someone who balks at ANYTHING that seems remotely confrontational, I wouldn't honestly probably say those things myself One thing you might do is talk to your PI and express some of your concerns. "I feel like Susan and I have been working together a lot lately and while I don't mind her company, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed/feeling like it's impeding my ability to do quality work/whatever." And then presenting a solution - maybe PI can make only one of you the class TA, or maybe she can give Susan more work to do in the lab that is separate from what you're doing or with another partner or splitting the work you all share such that she comes in at certain times and you come in at other times.

That was my thought too. Things already aren't good, so I don't think much can be lost by being polite but direct. Even if you don't explain that deeply, I think most people are not going to be too mad being told something along the lines of that you like them but you're trying to be more focused when at work. You can always make a concession to keep the peace, like we can take a coffee break or go to happy hour to bs for a bit, but otherwise please let me work undisturbed. I know you're trying to get away, but being too aggressive about it may end up being counter productive or make things worse in the long run. Especially if this person might stay and be in your sphere for years to come, I'd keep the nuclear football safely under the desk still.

What you say to your PI (if anything) definitely depends on your relationship with PI, PI's relationship with Master's student, and how they are in general. If student X goes, "huh, this wasn't what we talked about last week" and your PI is the type to blurt out, "YEAH I CHANGED THE PLAN CAUSE PBC TOLD ME YOU NEVER SHUT UP LOL" that's awkward. We all know some people who have no discretion. Personally my take would be more along the lines of, "I know you want faster results but I'm a little disappointed you're bringing other people in on my projects. It's making it harder for me to manage everything." You may lose some of that work entirely to her, but if you're good with that to cut her loose, then...Sometimes too much splitting and dividing of work just makes things more difficult.

Thanks for the advice! PI adores this girl and is actively trying to convince her to stay for a PhD, so things would have to get a lot worse for me to attempt to talk to our PI about this. Student cried when she found a typo on her conference poster after it had been printed, so any direct conversation with her regarding this would probably end in hurt feelings and more tears. A general "I need to focus on work right now" statement might work. I'll try that next time I need a little breathing room at work.

The cell culture project is the one we might need to have a PI-involved conversation about. The project doesn't need her help, I already have a tech who has been on it with me from the beginning, and we don't need 3 people. It's a waste of her time because I'm not giving her anything hands-on to do, and it's distracting to have someone talking at you when you're trying to concentrate on what you're doing. Hopefully that will sort itself out organically and I can take a "Hey, maybe we don't need help with this" approach without bringing up the real "oh my god give me space" reason.

 

[PippyPony]

What I should be doing:

Reality:

But in both situations you're a cat, soooo
I don't see a problem here.

 

[PippyPony]

Student cried when she found a typo on her conference poster after it had been printed

 

[Stroganoff]

Or something like that.

I pictured PBC pulling out her phone or a piece of paper and reading all of that in like one breath then walking away.

 

[Frozenshades]

Yeahhh. And that girl wants to do a PhD? How you gonna survive your comps if a typo makes you cry??

But in both situations you're a cat, soooo
I don't see a problem here.

So I can just meow at my defense in April while going through the slides? Interrupt all questions with angry meows or hisses.

 

[Stroganoff]

So tempted to make a LaTeX allergy joke.

 

[Stroganoff]

How you gonna survive your comps if a typo makes you cry??

Maybe exaggeration? I may or may not have cursed when a poster's background messed up and looked horrible, but I didn't crumble. It's whatever. If it's that important or egregious of an error, just re-print it.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Maybe exaggeration? I may or may not have cursed when a poster's background messed up and looked horrible, but I didn't crumble. It's whatever. If it's that important or egregious of an error, just re-print it.

Not an exaggeration. Which is . . . yeah. Hopefully she'll grow a thicker skin. This is her first job as well as her first time doing research so she's really inexperienced in a lot of ways.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Actually, being able to vent here has already helped a lot these past few days. I think talking to you all helped me feel less guilty about wanting space from her, which has at least taken a little stress off. So thank you!

 

[Balesofhay]

So I can just meow at my defense in April while going through the slides? Interrupt all questions with angry meows or hisses.

I should’ve clucked during mine Wouldn’t have made much of a difference with how fast I was talking

 

[Frozenshades]

I should’ve clucked during mine Wouldn’t have made much of a difference with how fast I was talking

"But...what are your conclusions here?"

Hiss!

 

[supershorty]

My first committee meeting is this week, and I know I shouldn't be scared because the committee is there to help guide you to a successful PhD - I KNOW that - but my brain is being an anxiety-fueled jerk about it and I've been having stress dreams for the last week.

My thesis has a really clear direction at this point, which I'm thrilled about, but I don't have a lot of preliminary data yet because my lab just moved to a new [terrible] space and so a lot of the data I was hoping to have by now don't yet exist.

It's going to be fine, but it doesn't feel like it's going to be fine.

 

[Frozenshades]

My first committee meeting is this week, and I know I shouldn't be scared because the committee is there to help guide you to a successful PhD - I KNOW that - but my brain is being an anxiety-fueled jerk about it and I've been having stress dreams for the last week.

My thesis has a really clear direction at this point, which I'm thrilled about, but I don't have a lot of preliminary data yet because my lab just moved to a new [terrible] space and so a lot of the data I was hoping to have by now don't yet exist.

It's going to be fine, but it doesn't feel like it's going to be fine.

I get the nerves too. Was definitely quite nervous for my first meeting and it went fine, some questions came up I couldn't answer, but they were nice about it and all was well. And I felt like I was going to barf when I started presenting during my prelims.

You'll be fine. Do a run through of your presentation or at least your slides with your PI or one of your lab members if it makes you feel better,

 

[PrincessButterCup]

You've got this @supershorty!

 

[Musicandhorses]

My first committee meeting is this week, and I know I shouldn't be scared because the committee is there to help guide you to a successful PhD - I KNOW that - but my brain is being an anxiety-fueled jerk about it and I've been having stress dreams for the last week.

My thesis has a really clear direction at this point, which I'm thrilled about, but I don't have a lot of preliminary data yet because my lab just moved to a new [terrible] space and so a lot of the data I was hoping to have by now don't yet exist.

It's going to be fine, but it doesn't feel like it's going to be fine.

Don’t worry. I cried literally like a baby after a couple of my committee meetings. I laugh about it now. But back then it wasn’t funny. They are there really to help you pass your final oral exams for success. But I completely was the same way.
We also moved our lab three or four times during my PhD. Fun times.

If you’re early in research it is usually easier so keep that in mind. As you get closer to defense that’s usually when things get more challenging. Like others have said. You got this. If I can get thru it anyone can!

 

[supershorty]

Anyone else gearing up for prelims/quals (whatever they're called at your program)?

 

[Frozenshades]

Wild few weeks in the world right now, but I'm done. Defended over zoom a couple weeks ago and my dissertation and everything is submitted. Now I need a job...

 

[wildlifeorzoovet]

Howdy vet grad school folks, I am looking for advice on licensure during grad school. Hoping someone has already gone through the issues that are cropping up for me.

My situation:
-Just finished vet school at NC State in May 2020, with zoo/wildlife med focus. Passed NAVLE in fall 2019.
-Starting PhD at University of Calgary in September 2020 (PhD in Vet Med Sciences, thesis topic will be impact of climate change on insect-borne parasites of barrenground caribou)
-Ultimate career goal is wildlife vet for state or federal agency.

Here's my issue:
-I do not need to be licensed as a vet in either the US or Canada for purposes of my PhD.
-I would prefer not to pay annual license fees every year during my PhD for a license I don't need/won't use. (I used to be a lawyer and still pay California every year for my inactive law license and it is painful to do so!)
-I will need to be licensed as a vet in the state where I eventually (fingers crossed!) succeed in getting a job as a wildlife vet, but I have no way of knowing what state that will be.
-Based on some quick internet research, it seems like many states will allow you to apply for an initial license as a veterinarian within 5 years of taking the NAVLE.
-It also seems like many states have an option for licensure by reciprocity (if you are already licensed in another state) but often there is a requirement of active practice of clinical medicine. For example, California requires 3000 hours of clinical practice within the prior 3 years.
-Seems highly unlikely that any state will consider my PhD work to be active practice of clinical medicine.
-I would love to live and work in California for the California Dept of Fish and Wildlife, though the chances of this working out are low.

So the options I am contemplating are:
-(1) Just suck it up and get licensed now and maintain the license, by paying annual license fees and completing CE requirements. Either pick a random state with lower fees, or pick California on the off-chance I will get lucky and end up there. Upside = Maybe I will end up working in the state I pick, or will be able to get licensed by reciprocity in another state? Low chance that I would have to retake NAVLE to get licensed. Downside = paying for a license I won't use for 4-6 years, and maybe will never even use in that state.
-(2) Wait 3-4 years and get a license before my NAVLE scores expire. Upside = don't have to pay license fees or do CE during those years. Downside = unless I am close to finishing my PhD, I will still have to pick a state to be licensed in seemingly at random and then hope I can translate that into a license where I find a job. Not sure if there is any other downside?

Anyone faced this issue before or otherwise feel comfortable giving advice? Thanks in advance!

 

[Coopah]

Howdy vet grad school folks, I am looking for advice on licensure during grad school. Hoping someone has already gone through the issues that are cropping up for me.

My situation:
-Just finished vet school at NC State in May 2020, with zoo/wildlife med focus. Passed NAVLE in fall 2019.
-Starting PhD at University of Calgary in September 2020 (PhD in Vet Med Sciences, thesis topic will be impact of climate change on insect-borne parasites of barrenground caribou)
-Ultimate career goal is wildlife vet for state or federal agency.

Here's my issue:
-I do not need to be licensed as a vet in either the US or Canada for purposes of my PhD.
-I would prefer not to pay annual license fees every year during my PhD for a license I don't need/won't use. (I used to be a lawyer and still pay California every year for my inactive law license and it is painful to do so!)
-I will need to be licensed as a vet in the state where I eventually (fingers crossed!) succeed in getting a job as a wildlife vet, but I have no way of knowing what state that will be.
-Based on some quick internet research, it seems like many states will allow you to apply for an initial license as a veterinarian within 5 years of taking the NAVLE.
-It also seems like many states have an option for licensure by reciprocity (if you are already licensed in another state) but often there is a requirement of active practice of clinical medicine. For example, California requires 3000 hours of clinical practice within the prior 3 years.
-Seems highly unlikely that any state will consider my PhD work to be active practice of clinical medicine.
-I would love to live and work in California for the California Dept of Fish and Wildlife, though the chances of this working out are low.

So the options I am contemplating are:
-(1) Just suck it up and get licensed now and maintain the license, by paying annual license fees and completing CE requirements. Either pick a random state with lower fees, or pick California on the off-chance I will get lucky and end up there. Upside = Maybe I will end up working in the state I pick, or will be able to get licensed by reciprocity in another state? Low chance that I would have to retake NAVLE to get licensed. Downside = paying for a license I won't use for 4-6 years, and maybe will never even use in that state.
-(2) Wait 3-4 years and get a license before my NAVLE scores expire. Upside = don't have to pay license fees or do CE during those years. Downside = unless I am close to finishing my PhD, I will still have to pick a state to be licensed in seemingly at random and then hope I can translate that into a license where I find a job. Not sure if there is any other downside?

Anyone faced this issue before or otherwise feel comfortable giving advice? Thanks in advance!

If you pick CA you have to take the state board exam, which is doable but a pain in the ass. I wouldn't unless you're planning on working there for good.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Howdy vet grad school folks, I am looking for advice on licensure during grad school. Hoping someone has already gone through the issues that are cropping up for me.

My situation:
-Just finished vet school at NC State in May 2020, with zoo/wildlife med focus. Passed NAVLE in fall 2019.
-Starting PhD at University of Calgary in September 2020 (PhD in Vet Med Sciences, thesis topic will be impact of climate change on insect-borne parasites of barrenground caribou)
-Ultimate career goal is wildlife vet for state or federal agency.

Here's my issue:
-I do not need to be licensed as a vet in either the US or Canada for purposes of my PhD.
-I would prefer not to pay annual license fees every year during my PhD for a license I don't need/won't use. (I used to be a lawyer and still pay California every year for my inactive law license and it is painful to do so!)
-I will need to be licensed as a vet in the state where I eventually (fingers crossed!) succeed in getting a job as a wildlife vet, but I have no way of knowing what state that will be.
-Based on some quick internet research, it seems like many states will allow you to apply for an initial license as a veterinarian within 5 years of taking the NAVLE.
-It also seems like many states have an option for licensure by reciprocity (if you are already licensed in another state) but often there is a requirement of active practice of clinical medicine. For example, California requires 3000 hours of clinical practice within the prior 3 years.
-Seems highly unlikely that any state will consider my PhD work to be active practice of clinical medicine.
-I would love to live and work in California for the California Dept of Fish and Wildlife, though the chances of this working out are low.

So the options I am contemplating are:
-(1) Just suck it up and get licensed now and maintain the license, by paying annual license fees and completing CE requirements. Either pick a random state with lower fees, or pick California on the off-chance I will get lucky and end up there. Upside = Maybe I will end up working in the state I pick, or will be able to get licensed by reciprocity in another state? Low chance that I would have to retake NAVLE to get licensed. Downside = paying for a license I won't use for 4-6 years, and maybe will never even use in that state.
-(2) Wait 3-4 years and get a license before my NAVLE scores expire. Upside = don't have to pay license fees or do CE during those years. Downside = unless I am close to finishing my PhD, I will still have to pick a state to be licensed in seemingly at random and then hope I can translate that into a license where I find a job. Not sure if there is any other downside?

Anyone faced this issue before or otherwise feel comfortable giving advice? Thanks in advance!

First of all, sheesh! How many degrees do you need!? Lol, good for you

If it were me, I’d make a list of the states with the lowest CE requirement, and pick one with the lowest rest registration fee/easiest licensing requirements. And then hold off for a few years if it allows it.

 

[wildlifeorzoovet]

If you pick CA you have to take the state board exam, which is doable but a pain in the ass. I wouldn't unless you're planning on working there for good.

I heard from a friend that the CA state exam wasn't too bad using study guides that are regularly circulated. Did you have a different experience?

 

[wildlifeorzoovet]

First of all, sheesh! How many degrees do you need!? Lol, good for you

If it were me, I’d make a list of the states with the lowest CE requirement, and pick one with the lowest rest registration fee/easiest licensing requirements. And then hold off for a few years if it allows it.

I just want to make everyone call me Doctor Doctor Doctor!

I like your approach, and this is what I have been leaning towards. I guess my biggest dilemma is California, because working as a state wildlife vet there would be top of my list, even though it's unlikely they will even have a job available at the right time (not to mention selecting me over other applicants).

 

[Coopah]

I heard from a friend that the CA state exam wasn't too bad using study guides that are regularly circulated. Did you have a different experience?

Haven't taken it yet, this is what I hear from the forth years. But they're all passing so

 

[JaynaAli]

There are states with no tests and minimal fees. I had to be licensed in Colorado for my internship (no state exam, just paid them a couple hundred bucks, do like 16 hours of CE a year, and that was it) but then I didn’t need an active license during my pathology residency since I was covered under an institutional license. I continued to pay Colorado ($250/2 years) because it would be easier and cheaper to just maintain it and apply for licensure by reciprocity after residency than have to re-apply from scratch. When you reinstate a license you usually still have to prove you did whatever their number of CE hours is annually anyway. I think in your case, you are right that you might run into issues getting reciprocity because your PhD may not count as active work in vet med. For my reciprocity I had to send proof I was working those three years. Because of that, I would probably wait to apply for that initial licensure until closer to the end of your PhD.

Normally I’d say the exception is if you want to work in California, but your case is even more unique because of the not technically practicing thing. It’ll you’re not practicing, it’s unlikely another state will let you get licensed by reciprocity, so that licensure is worth very little outside to California in my mind. But, if you really may end up in CA, most people I talk to say to get licensed in CA early and just pay the fees to keep it active just in case you ever move back. I’ve heard that the exam is probably easier when you’re right out of school because you’ve studied for NAVLE more recently and that random information is in the forefront of your mind. 5 years from now you may have a harder time remembering those random facts about yellow star thistle and coccidioides. I think you need to really evaluate your chances of getting your dream job in California. If it’s a high probability it’ll work out and you’ll get a job in CA, go ahead and take it while you’re better prepared for the exam now. If it is more of a dream and a long shot your dream works out, I’d personally probably just take my chances, skip the licensure in CA for now, and study hard for the state exam in a few years. But that’s gonna be something only you can decide.

 

[Minnerbelle]

There are states with no tests and minimal fees. I had to be licensed in Colorado for my internship (no state exam, just paid them a couple hundred bucks, do like 16 hours of CE a year, and that was it) but then I didn’t need an active license during my pathology residency since I was covered under an institutional license. I continued to pay Colorado ($250/2 years) because it would be easier and cheaper to just maintain it and apply for licensure by reciprocity after residency than have to re-apply from scratch. When you reinstate a license you usually still have to prove you did whatever their number of CE hours is annually anyway. I think in your case, you are right that you might run into issues getting reciprocity because your PhD may not count as active work in vet med. For my reciprocity I had to send proof I was working those three years. Because of that, I would probably wait to apply for that initial licensure until closer to the end of your PhD.

Normally I’d say the exception is if you want to work in California, but your case is even more unique because of the not technically practicing thing. It’ll you’re not practicing, it’s unlikely another state will let you get licensed by reciprocity, so that licensure is worth very little outside to California in my mind. But, if you really may end up in CA, most people I talk to say to get licensed in CA early and just pay the fees to keep it active just in case you ever move back. I’ve heard that the exam is probably easier when you’re right out of school because you’ve studied for NAVLE more recently and that random information is in the forefront of your mind. 5 years from now you may have a harder time remembering those random facts about yellow star thistle and coccidioides. I think you need to really evaluate your chances of getting your dream job in California. If it’s a high probability it’ll work out and you’ll get a job in CA, go ahead and take it while you’re better prepared for the exam now. If it is more of a dream and a long shot your dream works out, I’d personally probably just take my chances, skip the licensure in CA for now, and study hard for the state exam in a few years. But that’s gonna be something only you can decide.

Do you know what the criteria for getting reciprocity is? Like, is occasional vaccine clinic enough?

 

[JaynaAli]

Do you know what the criteria for getting reciprocity is? Like, is occasional vaccine clinic enough?

The state I got reciprocity licensed in says they need proof active practice of at least an average of 25 hours a week in 3 of the pst 5 years. Didn’t look up other states.

 

[wildlifeorzoovet]

I think you need to really evaluate your chances of getting your dream job in California.

Thanks, this makes good sense to me. Realistically, there is almost zero chance I will be able to get a job as a wildlife vet in CA immediately after finishing my PhD, but maybe higher probability I could get a job there eventually if I continue to make and maintain the right connections. And if I work as a wildlife vet in another state for a few years after PhD, that would cover me for the active practice requirement to get reciprocity in CA should a job become available. So I guess I am leaning towards waiting a few years, getting a license in a low fee/CE requirement state, then crossing my fingers and seeing what happens.

Appreciate your thoughts!

 

[wildlifeorzoovet]

The state I got reciprocity licensed in says they need proof active practice of at least an average of 25 hours a week in 3 of the pst 5 years. Didn’t look up other states.

Yeah I think it is highly variable depending on the state. California requires at least 3000 hours of clinical practice over the past 3 years, so approx 20 hours a week.

 

[Frozenshades]

Similar boat. I'm applying for a license in New York now after finishing my PhD. NY has no state examination, and they actually don't require CE for the first three years after getting your license. If I'm reading all the legalese right (why can't they make it simple?) I may have to do some additional CE to account for that lapse in practice time the last three years, but I think that's it.

 

[Musicandhorses]

I’ve been in your shoes and I would suggest getting licenses in the state or states you most likely want to practice in. It’s a pain if you wait as states like Cali make you take the navle again or practice for 2-5 years so be aware of that. I found it easier just to get licensed out of school and keep up with CE and fees than get licenses when you go back to practice.