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Have any of these so called experts taken into account the new Anti-Covid 19 drugs the Chinese and South Koreans are using? These drugs will impact mortality in a big way and shorten ICU stays by 60%.

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Pharma company Bayer will soon make a large donation to the U.S. government of a drug that has shown some promise in helping patients suffering from the novel coronavirus, according to a senior Health and Human Services official and another source with direct knowledge.

Why it matters: It doesn't hurt to have a potential treatment on hand, but we're still a very long way from having an approved, clinically tested treatment for the coronavirus.

The big picture: Early evidence suggests that chloroquine — an inexpensive anti-malarial drug — may work just as well, if not even better, than remdesivir, a drug owned by Gilead, which is undergoing clinical trials for treatment of the coronavirus.

  • A study published in Nature found that "remdesivir and chloroquine are highly effective in the control of 2019-nCoV infection in vitro."
  • "Chloroquine shouldn’t be left out of the discussion of candidate COVID-19 therapies and may actually be leading the pack," Raymond James wrote in a research note earlier this month.
 
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Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine


Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are widely used antimalarial drugs that elicit immunomodulatory effects and are therefore also used to treat autoimmune conditions (eg, systemic lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis). Published reports stemming from the COVID-19 Chinese outbreak have evaluated the potential usefulness of these drugs in controlling cytokine release syndrome in critically ill patients. [45, 46]


According to a consensus statement from a multicenter collaboration group in China, chloroquine phosphate 500-mg twice daily in tablet form for 10 days may be considered in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia. [35] Wang et al reported that chloroquine effectively inhibits SARS-CoV-2 in vitro. [36]


The pharmacological activity of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine was tested using SARS-CoV-2–infected Vero cells. Physiologically based pharmacokinetic models (PBPK) were conducted for each drug. Hydroxychloroquine was found to be more potent than chloroquine in vitro. Based on PBPK models, the authors recommend a loading dose of hydroxychloroquine 400 mg PO BID, followed by 200 mg BID for 4 days. [45]
 
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Have any of these so called experts taken into account the new Anti-Covid 19 drugs the Chinese and South Koreans are using? These drugs will impact mortality in a big way and shorten ICU stays by 60%.
That will be the game changer, and badly needed. The game changer will not be the course of action we seem to be headed on. There is talk of full income replacement of up to $80,000. National sacrifice is necessary, not, Carry on with your usual frivolous lifestyle and we'll just borrow infinite money to support that.
 
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Table 2. Investigational Vaccines (Open Table in a new window)

VaccineComments
INO-4800 (Inovio Pharmaceuticals) [61]Phase 1 human clinical trials are expected to begin in April 2020. In addition, Inovio has received a grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to accelerate testing and scale up a smart device (Cellectra 3PSP) for large-scale intradermal vaccine delivery.
mRNA-1273 (Moderna Inc) [62]A phase 1 study has been initiated in 45 healthy volunteers as of March 16, 2020 at Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Instituted in Seattle.
mRNA vaccine (CureVac) [63]Vaccine is in development and not yet ready for human testing as of March 16, 2020.
COVID-19 S-Trimer (GlaxoSmithKline [GSK] and Clover Biopharmaceuticals) [64]Preclinical development is underway using GSK’s adjuvants (compounds that enhance vaccine efficacy) and Clover’s proprietary proteins, which stimulate an immune response.
SARS-CoV-2 vaccine (Johnson & Johnson [J&J]) [65]Partnering with the Biomedical advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) to utilize Janssen’s AdVac and PER.C6 technologies, which provide rapid upscale production of an optimal vaccine candidate.
rDNA vaccine (Sanofi) [66]Collaborating with BARDA to develop a vaccine using their recombinant DNA platform.
Saponin-based Matrix-M adjuvant vaccine (Novavax) [67]Stimulates the entry of antigen-presenting cell into the injection site and enhances antigen presentation in local lymph nodes to boost the immune response.
Live-attenuated vaccine (Codagenix) [68]Codagenix, a clinical-stage biotechnology company, is collaborating with the Serum Institute of India to co-develop a live-attenuated vaccine.
PCR-based DNA vaccine (Applied DNA Sciences and Takis Biotech) [69]The collaboration has designed four COVID-19 vaccine candidates utilizing PCR-based DNA manufacturing systems for preclinical testing in animals.
Intranasal COVID-19 vaccine (Altimmune, Inc) [70]Design and synthesis has been completed and is advancing toward animal testing.
 
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Have any of these so called experts taken into account the new Anti-Covid 19 drugs the Chinese and South Koreans are using? These drugs will impact mortality in a big way and shorten ICU stays by 60%.

lol blade why do you make stuff up like this? at least give a reputable source if you are going to just throw out a number.
 
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Vector2 would have you believe that Biotech companies would be willing to do all this work for next to nothing in a single payer system. He is DEAD wrong. The profit motive (huge profits) combined with our NEED for a vaccine is leading to rapid progress. GREED, for lack of a better word, is good in this situation. The best and fastest vaccine will make the manufacturer extremely wealthy as the stock will soar. This is Capitalism doing what it does best: innovate
 
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Have any of these so called experts taken into account the new Anti-Covid 19 drugs the Chinese and South Koreans are using? These drugs will impact mortality in a big way and shorten ICU stays by 60%.

Ms. Deng’s doctor prescribed a regimen of arbidol, an antiviral medicine used to treat the flu in Russia and China; Tamiflu, another flu medicine more popular internationally; and Kaletra, an HIV medicine thought to block the replication of the virus. Ms. Deng was taking at least 12 pills a day, as well as traditional Chinese medicine.

China used all sorts of drugs. A shotgun approach. With 80,000 infected they haven't been able to show any significant difference.
 
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lol blade why do you make stuff up like this? at least give a reputable source if you are going to just throw out a number.

Really? All the crap you read from so called experts online and you don't believe that these drugs will cut ICU admissions? Well, I am pretty confident that these treatments will really help lower mortality significantly and reduce ICU admissions. Let's see how this plays out before you decided that the so called experts predicting 2 million ICU patients are anywhere even close.
 
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Vector2 would have you believe that Biotech companies would be willing to do all this work for next to nothing in a single payer system. He is DEAD wrong. The profit motive (huge profits) combined with our NEED for a vaccine is leading to rapid progress. GREED, for lack of a better word, is good in this situation. The best and fastest vaccine will make the manufacturer extremely wealthy as the stock will soar. This is Capitalism doing what it does best: innovate
Extremely wealthy on top of a pile of skulls. The hallmark of capitalism.
 
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China used all sorts of drugs. A shotgun approach. With 80,000 infected they haven't been able to show any significant difference.

It takes time when experimenting on your citizens of 50,000 before you find out what actually works.
 
Extremely wealthy on top of a pile of skulls. The hallmark of capitalism.

Wealthy because of innovation: Ipod, Computer, Iphone, dozens of new medications saving countless lives. Every single one of us is better off because of capitalism in our Biotech/Pharm industry. Sure, it needs some regulations but they save lives. We simply fund the innovation (or 90% of it) for the entire world.
 
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Vector2 would have you believe that Biotech companies would be willing to do all this work for next to nothing in a single payer system. He is DEAD wrong. The profit motive (huge profits) combined with our NEED for a vaccine is leading to rapid progress. GREED, for lack of a better word, is good in this situation. The best and fastest vaccine will make the manufacturer extremely wealthy as the stock will soar. This is Capitalism doing what it does best: innovate

Well first of all, I’m not convinced a majority of people would be willing to take a barely tested vaccine anymore thanks to social media. There will be conspiracy theories about how this was all a ploy to make everyone autistic.

Secondly, who is going to buy this vaccine if everyone is laid off from work?
 
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Looking at figure 1A, for 6 weeks straight May-July, at least 16K Americans will die DAILY. Peak will be first weak of June, when number of daily deaths exceeds 50K.

I feel I'm in a nightmare and hoping to wake up.

Well, I am predicting that by June the hot weather and high humidity will be a major factor in keeping the infection rate in check in my neck of the woods.
 
Well first of all, I’m not convinced a majority of people would be willing to take a barely tested vaccine anymore thanks to social media. They’ll be conspiracy theories about how this was all a ploy to make everyone autistic.

Secondly, who is going to buy this vaccine if everyone is laid off from work?


You are with future tax money. And sign me up for the vaccine ASAP.
 



China used all sorts of drugs. A shotgun approach. With 80,000 infected they haven't been able to show any significant difference.

I recommend you all think about stocking up on hyroxychloroquine asap in case you come down with a fever. That cheap drug may save your life.
 
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Just as we pay for Medicaid and other social programs. The vaccine is FREE to save lives and help develop herd immunity. I have always posted that the govt. should be there to feed the starving and help those who can't afford medical care. The govt. should pay the developer of the vaccine fair market value for its innovation.
 
Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine


Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are widely used antimalarial drugs that elicit immunomodulatory effects and are therefore also used to treat autoimmune conditions (eg, systemic lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis). Published reports stemming from the COVID-19 Chinese outbreak have evaluated the potential usefulness of these drugs in controlling cytokine release syndrome in critically ill patients. [45, 46]


According to a consensus statement from a multicenter collaboration group in China, chloroquine phosphate 500-mg twice daily in tablet form for 10 days may be considered in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia. [35] Wang et al reported that chloroquine effectively inhibits SARS-CoV-2 in vitro. [36]


The pharmacological activity of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine was tested using SARS-CoV-2–infected Vero cells. Physiologically based pharmacokinetic models (PBPK) were conducted for each drug. Hydroxychloroquine was found to be more potent than chloroquine in vitro. Based on PBPK models, the authors recommend a loading dose of hydroxychloroquine 400 mg PO BID, followed by 200 mg BID for 4 days. [45]


Except it is not available. Was on conference call today with system leadership. Everybody wants it. DOn't know how long to ramp up production.
 
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Well, I am predicting that by June the hot weather and high humidity will be a major factor in keeping the infection rate in check in my neck of the woods.
It's pretty warm and humid in Brazil, some of Australia, Indonesia, Thailand, and the UAE ...
 
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Just as we pay for Medicaid and other social programs. The vaccine is FREE to save lives and help develop herd immunity.


Uh yea....so like he said.....socialism is paying for the vaccine...

Also, How much NIH money does biotech and big pharma use to develop drugs before they turn around and sell at a massive profit?
 
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lol blade why do you make stuff up like this? at least give a reputable source if you are going to just throw out a number.

While the data have not yet been published, and should therefore be interpreted with caution, this non-randomised, unblinded study showed a strong reduction in viral load with hydroxychloroquine.

After 6 days, the percentage of patients testing positive for COVID-19 who received hydroxychloroquine fell to 25% versus 90% for those who did not receive the treatment (a group of untreated COVID-19 patients from Nice and Avignon).

In addition, comparing untreated patients, those receiving hydroxychloroquine and those given hydroxychloroquine plus the antibiotic azithromycin, the results showed there was "a spectacular reduction in the number of positive cases" with the combination therapy, said Prof Raoult.

At 6 days, among patients given combination therapy, the percentage of cases still carrying SRAS-CoV-2 was no more than 5%.


Azithromycin was added because it is known to be effective against complications from bacterial lung disease but also because it has been shown to be effective in the laboratory against a large number of viruses, the infectious disease specialist explained.


"Everyone who died from COVID-19 were still carriers of coronavirus. To no longer have the virus changes the prognosis," Prof Raoult said.

 
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Except it is not available. Was on conference call today with system leadership. Everybody wants it. DOn't know how long to ramp up production.

That's why we have our govt. Spend a few billion and ramp up production now. We could have millions of pills in weeks.
 
While the data have not yet been published, and should therefore be interpreted with caution, this non-randomised, unblinded study showed a strong reduction in viral load with hydroxychloroquine.

After 6 days, the percentage of patients testing positive for COVID-19 who received hydroxychloroquine fell to 25% versus 90% for those who did not receive the treatment (a group of untreated COVID-19 patients from Nice and Avignon).

In addition, comparing untreated patients, those receiving hydroxychloroquine and those given hydroxychloroquine plus the antibiotic azithromycin, the results showed there was "a spectacular reduction in the number of positive cases" with the combination therapy, said Prof Raoult.

At 6 days, among patients given combination therapy, the percentage of cases still carrying SRAS-CoV-2 was no more than 5%.


Azithromycin was added because it is known to be effective against complications from bacterial lung disease but also because it has been shown to be effective in the laboratory against a large number of viruses, the infectious disease specialist explained.


"Everyone who died from COVID-19 were still carriers of coronavirus. To no longer have the virus changes the prognosis," Prof Raoult said.


One of the major hospitals in Jack ma’s hometown with 95% survival rate of hospitalized patients used hydroxychloroqujne and kaletra as the base antiviral regimen. Time to get some Kaletra?


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While the data have not yet been published, and should therefore be interpreted with caution, this non-randomised, unblinded study showed a strong reduction in viral load with hydroxychloroquine.

After 6 days, the percentage of patients testing positive for COVID-19 who received hydroxychloroquine fell to 25% versus 90% for those who did not receive the treatment (a group of untreated COVID-19 patients from Nice and Avignon).

In addition, comparing untreated patients, those receiving hydroxychloroquine and those given hydroxychloroquine plus the antibiotic azithromycin, the results showed there was "a spectacular reduction in the number of positive cases" with the combination therapy, said Prof Raoult.

At 6 days, among patients given combination therapy, the percentage of cases still carrying SRAS-CoV-2 was no more than 5%.


Azithromycin was added because it is known to be effective against complications from bacterial lung disease but also because it has been shown to be effective in the laboratory against a large number of viruses, the infectious disease specialist explained.


"Everyone who died from COVID-19 were still carriers of coronavirus. To no longer have the virus changes the prognosis," Prof Raoult said.

So does it reduce mortality? I would bet it doesn't, as in it "works" in people who would survive anyway. I have a feeling this will turn out to be a pile of garbage, as in NSAIDs may have the same effect.

It would be good if we didn't spread various rumors, unless there is at least a presentation behind it, ideally a paper.
 
The CEO of the buzzy biotech that's working on a potential coronavirus vaccine just pledged he won't set a high price for the shot


Have you seen his stock price as of late?
 
So does it reduce mortality? I would bet it doesn't, as in it "works" in people who would survive anyway.

I have a feeling this will turn out to be a pile of crap, as in NSAIDS will do the same.

It would be good if we didn't spread various rumors, unless there is at least a presentation behind it, ideally a paper.

I will let you know as the cost to me will be negligible while the benefit could be tremendous.
Research in Australia, South Korea, China and the USA is confirming chloroquine is working against COVID-19. Bayer have increased chloroquine production for the US government.

The one we want is PLAQUENIL. We are on the front lines people. You need this drug on hand.
 
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One of the major hospitals in Jack ma’s hometown with 95% survival rate of hospitalized patients used hydroxychloroqujne and kaletra as the base antiviral regimen. Time to get some Kaletra?


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Nope. The Plaquenil was the active ingredient and it costs about a dollar per pill.
 
So does it reduce mortality? I would bet it doesn't, as in it "works" in people who would survive anyway. I have a feeling this will turn out to be a pile of garbage, as in NSAIDs may have the same effect.

It would be good if we didn't spread various rumors, unless there is at least a presentation behind it, ideally a paper.


Christian Perronne, head of infectious diseases, University Hospital Raymond Poincaré, Garches, Paris, was more enthusiastic.


"I really believe in hydroxychloroquine. It is a drug I find rather fascinating, that has been used for decades. There have been positive results in an in vitro study and a preliminary Chinese study in 100 patients which showed that hydroxychloroquine reduced the viral load, the symptoms lasted for less time, and they are not as severe. This could reduce the number of carriers, which I find interesting from an epidemiological perspective.


"I think from an ethical point of view, we should suggest it to all patients with severe disease who are hospitalised, under surveillance and on short treatment, paying attention to drug interactions, especially with drugs that prolong the QT interval. Afterwards, in terms of adverse effects, at increased doses, it is possible that patients will have pain or fever, but it seems that the treatment is effective at lower doses, according to the Chinese data. In any case, the adverse effects of this compound are not dangerous."


On the adverse effects, Professor Thomas Papo, from Bichat Hospital, the University of Paris, confirmed via email: "Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil, which is not chloroquine), vaunted by Didier Raoult as an anti-viral, has been used for decades in tens of thousands of patients, for several decades, so we have a huge follow-up and lots of data. This drug is remarkably well tolerated and we give it to all patients with lupus (for example), including in pregnant women. The main complication (retinal toxicity) is rare and does not last beyond 5 years of continuous use."
 
Christian Perronne, head of infectious diseases, University Hospital Raymond Poincaré, Garches, Paris, was more enthusiastic.


"I really believe in hydroxychloroquine. It is a drug I find rather fascinating, that has been used for decades. There have been positive results in an in vitro study and a preliminary Chinese study in 100 patients which showed that hydroxychloroquine reduced the viral load, the symptoms lasted for less time, and they are not as severe. This could reduce the number of carriers, which I find interesting from an epidemiological perspective.


"I think from an ethical point of view, we should suggest it to all patients with severe disease who are hospitalised, under surveillance and on short treatment, paying attention to drug interactions, especially with drugs that prolong the QT interval. Afterwards, in terms of adverse effects, at increased doses, it is possible that patients will have pain or fever, but it seems that the treatment is effective at lower doses, according to the Chinese data. In any case, the adverse effects of this compound are not dangerous."


On the adverse effects, Professor Thomas Papo, from Bichat Hospital, the University of Paris, confirmed via email: "Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil, which is not chloroquine), vaunted by Didier Raoult as an anti-viral, has been used for decades in tens of thousands of patients, for several decades, so we have a huge follow-up and lots of data. This drug is remarkably well tolerated and we give it to all patients with lupus (for example), including in pregnant women. The main complication (retinal toxicity) is rare and does not last beyond 5 years of continuous use."
My point exactly.
 
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how do you think this will affect hospitals bottom line? will they see a increase in revenue due to increased vented patients? or decrease due to decreased surgeries?
 
Christian Perronne, head of infectious diseases, University Hospital Raymond Poincaré, Garches, Paris, was more enthusiastic.


"I really believe in hydroxychloroquine. It is a drug I find rather fascinating, that has been used for decades. There have been positive results in an in vitro study and a preliminary Chinese study in 100 patients which showed that hydroxychloroquine reduced the viral load, the symptoms lasted for less time, and they are not as severe. This could reduce the number of carriers, which I find interesting from an epidemiological perspective.


"I think from an ethical point of view, we should suggest it to all patients with severe disease who are hospitalised, under surveillance and on short treatment, paying attention to drug interactions, especially with drugs that prolong the QT interval. Afterwards, in terms of adverse effects, at increased doses, it is possible that patients will have pain or fever, but it seems that the treatment is effective at lower doses, according to the Chinese data. In any case, the adverse effects of this compound are not dangerous."


On the adverse effects, Professor Thomas Papo, from Bichat Hospital, the University of Paris, confirmed via email: "Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil, which is not chloroquine), vaunted by Didier Raoult as an anti-viral, has been used for decades in tens of thousands of patients, for several decades, so we have a huge follow-up and lots of data. This drug is remarkably well tolerated and we give it to all patients with lupus (for example), including in pregnant women. The main complication (retinal toxicity) is rare and does not last beyond 5 years of continuous use."

If it doesn't reduce deaths or ICU admissions, it's not much of a cure. Plus, without any large scale clinical trials, it's just as likely that giving this to asymptomatic people doesn't do much to stop the spread, and we have an even bigger crisis.

The data from China and South Korea are clear -- short term lockdowns are the most effective solution in the absence of any validated pharmaceutical treatment. If that "hurts" capitalism, then maybe capitalism is no longer the dominant world ideology.
 
how do you think this will affect hospitals bottom line? will they see a increase in revenue due to increased vented patients? or decrease due to decreased surgeries?
The latter, clearly. ICUs don't make as much money as ORs, quite the opposite.
 
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Even "worse" -- the inevitable lack of payment of the uninsured and likely nationalization of hospitals as we run out of resources. Support for Medicare-for-All will skyrocket.
 
If it doesn't reduce deaths or ICU admissions, it's not much of a cure. Plus, without any large scale clinical trials, it's just as likely that giving this to asymptomatic people doesn't do much to stop the spread, and we have an even bigger crisis.

The data from China and South Korea are clear -- short term lockdowns are the most effective solution in the absence of any validated pharmaceutical treatment. If that "hurts" capitalism, then maybe capitalism is no longer the dominant world ideology.

Just remember when you or a loved one over the age of 60 comes down with a fever and a cough the treatment options are limited. A simple 2 dollar per day treatment may save their life. I will be keeping the drug on hand in my medicine cabinet along with some Zithromax.
 
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Just remember when you or a loved one over the age of 60 comes down with a fever and a cough the treatment options are limited. A simple 2 dollar per day treatment may save their life. I will be keeping the drug on hand in my medicine cabinet along with some Zithromax.
I wouldn't advertise having it. because you could have only bought it ilegally. As in you don't have an indication for it.

Also, in vitro does not equal in vivo. I believe it when I see it in my patients.

Remember Tamiflu? Doesn't do sh-t for flu, despite the hype.
 
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One of the major hospitals in Jack ma’s hometown with 95% survival rate of hospitalized patients used hydroxychloroqujne and kaletra as the base antiviral regimen. Time to get some Kaletra?


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Kaletra pilot study in NEJM was a colossal flop today.
 
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Kaletra pilot study in NEJM was a colossal flop today.
How surprising.

Many single hospital (especially if retrospective) studies are worthless, and irreproducible. Let's not forget the entire EGDT bull feces came from one of them, and it took us almost 20 years to prove it was mostly garbage (Swans, ScvO2, blood transfusions, dobutamine etc.).

We'd better not kill people trying to save them from Covid-19. We do it all the time, as physicians; it's called "iatrogenesis". The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
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Donald f'ing Trump of all people is about to initiate the most massive government wealth transfer in the history of our country, followed likely by bailouts for industries that bought back hundreds of billions of dollars worth of stock during a massive bull run instead of shoring up their balance sheets.

Maybe now isn't the best time to be espousing the wonders of an economic system that works great except for the fact that it totally collapses every 10 years or so?
 
How surprising.

Many single hospital (especially if retrospective) studies are worthless, and irreproducible. Let's not forget the entire EGDT bull feces came from one of them, and it took us almost 20 years to prove it was mostly garbage (Swans, ScvO2, blood transfusions, dobutamine etc.).

We'd better not kill people trying to save them from Covid-19. We do it all the time, as physicians; it's called "iatrogenesis". The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

One of the Italian physicians and the NEJM editorials said same thing. Despite the urgency and desperation, we still need high quality trials. There are already doctors out there advocating zinc and ashwaganda supplementation without evidence.
 
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Vector2 would have you believe that Biotech companies would be willing to do all this work for next to nothing in a single payer system. He is DEAD wrong. The profit motive (huge profits) combined with our NEED for a vaccine is leading to rapid progress. GREED, for lack of a better word, is good in this situation. The best and fastest vaccine will make the manufacturer extremely wealthy as the stock will soar. This is Capitalism doing what it does best: innovate
Dude, we don’t even have enough test kits MONTHS into this mess (unless you are a celebrity or NBA star). A vaccine or cure mass produced for all is a long, LONG time away... I think Tom Hanks and Idris Elba will have access long before you or I do.
 
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