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vector2 said:




Also, Dubya still trying to rehab his image

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I trust him. If that’s what he says, it must be true.

DB2BB2E0-BC5B-4219-B392-D52361BA94AB.jpeg
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FFP said:
Stunning!

www.theatlantic.com

James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him as a Threat to the Constitution

In an extraordinary condemnation, the former defense secretary backs protesters and says the president is trying to turn Americans against one another.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
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Trump will turn on him, just like everyone else. Trump and everything he touches is just absolutely toxic. I think even the most diehard Republicans are starting to realize what some of us have known all along - Trump does nothing unless it is in his self-interest. Whether that will change things at election time remains to be seen.

The church stunt with the bible was even lower than I could ever imagine him sinking, if that is even possible!
 
Arch Guillotti said:
Trump will turn on him, just like everyone else. Trump and everything he touches is just absolutely toxic. I think even the most diehard Republicans are starting to realize what some of us have known all along - Trump does nothing unless it is in his self-interest. Whether that will change things at election time remains to be seen.

The church stunt with the bible was even lower than I could ever imagine him sinking, if that is even possible!
Click to expand...



6BE749CD-91BC-453B-A301-6F70EAF62E9D.jpeg
 
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I think the interesting thing is how Trump keeps baiting his critics to focus on him nonstop for years. Win or lose, i'm pretty sure the media will keep focusing on him for decades to come. We can agree he's a narcissist to the highest order but he's pretty good at baiting and grabbing a lot of attention.
 
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nimbus said:
rvat.org

Republican Voters Against Trump

These are Republicans, former Republicans, conservatives, and former Trump voters who can’t support Trump for president this fall.
rvat.org rvat.org
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what about Democrats against Biden? Pretty sure there are a lot of upset voters who ended up with Biden as a nominee from a running list of 29 candidates. Also Sanders voters could be staging a similar rebellion again
 
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When the left starts making videos about Biden in the same way republicans are making these kind of videos about Trump, then I'll start getting worried:









Also, 10 bucks says that the second Trump is out of office, his following and media coverage will start vanishing at an astonishing rate (despite what I guarantee will be his ceaseless effort to tweet garbage at the next administration in contrast to the extreme reticence of prior presidents) and he'll quickly return to being an afterthought of a ****stain on the scroll of history. After all, nobody really follows the circus master after he's left the big tent.
 
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Lawper said:
I think the interesting thing is how Trump keeps baiting his critics to focus on him nonstop for years. Win or lose, i'm pretty sure the media will keep focusing on him for decades to come. We can agree he's a narcissist to the highest order but he's pretty good at baiting and grabbing a lot of attention.
Click to expand...

He is a master showman. And he personifies the anger and insecurity of his base. But that is not enough to lead the United States.
 
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nimbus said:
He is a master showman. And he personifies the anger and insecurity of his base. But that is not enough to lead the United States.
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I agree that Trump hasn't been a good leader. Usually, situations like this make me more wishing that Obama remained president since he knows how to handle a crisis well.
 
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vector2 said:
When the left starts making videos about Biden in the same way republicans are making these kind of videos about Trump, then I'll start getting worried:









Also, 10 bucks says that the second Trump is out of office, his following and media coverage will start vanishing at an astonishing rate (despite what I guarantee will be his ceaseless effort to tweet garbage at the next administration in contrast to the extreme reticence of prior presidents) and he'll quickly return to being an afterthought of a ****stain on the scroll of history. After all, nobody really follows the circus master after he's left the big tent.
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I wonder.

If he loses this November you just know that he's going to say its a fraudulent election, rigged, that sort of thing. It'll be interesting to see how long his die hard supporters hold on to that narrative.

I think you're right that most of those who have put up with him to achieve their goals (SCOTUS, tax breaks) will stop talking about him pretty darned fast, but the true believers (of which there are a fair number) are more of a question mark.
 
nimbus said:
Click to expand...

Let's not forget who says that: the biggest coward in the WH, president Bone Spur.

One has to be VERY patriotic to serve the country under such a conman-in-chief.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I wonder.

If he loses this November you just know that he's going to say its a fraudulent election, rigged, that sort of thing. It'll be interesting to see how long his die hard supporters hold on to that narrative.

I think you're right that most of those who have put up with him to achieve their goals (SCOTUS, tax breaks) will stop talking about him pretty darned fast, but the true believers (of which there are a fair number) are more of a question mark.
Click to expand...
They will support him, or somebody like him, as long as whites, and especially white males, keeps being vilified by the left, as long as political correctness keeps being this country's "religion", as long as "feelings" are more important than facts. And not only his base will... If Pence were running for president, I would hold my nose and vote for him in an instant.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I wonder.

If he loses this November you just know that he's going to say its a fraudulent election, rigged, that sort of thing. It'll be interesting to see how long his die hard supporters hold on to that narrative.

I think you're right that most of those who have put up with him to achieve their goals (SCOTUS, tax breaks) will stop talking about him pretty darned fast, but the true believers (of which there are a fair number) are more of a question mark.
Click to expand...

If he loses he will never let it die. He cannot function without having a grievance.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I wonder.

If he loses this November you just know that he's going to say its a fraudulent election, rigged, that sort of thing. It'll be interesting to see how long his die hard supporters hold on to that narrative.

I think you're right that most of those who have put up with him to achieve their goals (SCOTUS, tax breaks) will stop talking about him pretty darned fast, but the true believers (of which there are a fair number) are more of a question mark.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong- the true believers will never stop talking about him and trumpism will probably have in perpetuity some kind of small permanent niche in the recesses of the internet. But I think this rest of the GOP are as desperate as the rest of us to get back to some kind of normalcy, or at least as 'normal' as things were during the post-tea party partisanship of this decade.

Trump fatigue is real, and every media outlet only gives him coverage because 1. everything he does is fxking stupid/illegal/outrageous 2. He's the president of the united states. Once he is no longer #2, there is no reason to cover #1, and every mainstream right wing outlet will want to move away from trump because having a 1 term president is an especially stinging once-in-a-generation kind of blunder that doesn't need highlighting.
 
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crash2500 said:
@FFP care to elaborate more than a sarcastic emoji?
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It wasn't sarcastic. It was honest. The kind of thing that is less and less appreciated by the left.

And no, I don't care to elaborate. In my experience, it's a waste of time to explain a moderate position (what used to be called "common sense") to anybody who thinks in extremes (e.g. LeBron James, Trump) or their fans/cult. Been there done that, pigs don't fly.

I only preach to the choir, to make all the stupidity around me more tolerable, like drinking buddies at the pub. :)
 
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FFP said:
It wasn't sarcastic. It was honest. The kind of thing that is less and less appreciated by the left.

And no, I don't care to elaborate. In my experience, it's a waste of time to explain a moderate position (what used to be called "common sense") to anybody who thinks in extremes (e.g. LeBron James, Trump) or their fans/cult. Been there done that, pigs don't fly.

I only preach to the choir, to make all the stupidity around me more tolerable, like drinking buddies at the pub. :)
Click to expand...

It's literally not extremes. Have you seen the latest info on the Arbery case? If that doesn't spell out that black people are hunted by some in this country I don't know what does. How many examples do you need?

Until you make the effort to try to understand what they go through, your comments just come off as ignorant. That's the truth.
 
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crash2500 said:
It's literally not extremes. Have you seen the latest info on the Arbery case? If that doesn't spell out that black people are hunted by some in this country I don't know what does. How many examples do you need?

Until you make the effort to try to understand what they go through, your comments just come off as ignorant. That's the truth.
Click to expand...
Nobody denies what's still happening in certain parts of this country, especially in the Deep South. Those states were founded by rich slave and plantation owners who moved over from Barbados, not just the usual middle-class colonists running away from persecution/poverty, and it still shows. Also, I expected racism to flare in Minnesota, after some genius planted a ton of Somali refugees there; people tend to become more prejudiced and less tolerant when about their backyard (just look at Brexit).

But cheap generalizations like LBJ's, even just for emphasis, don't help. Or calling "my comments" (or others') ignorant, just because they are not PC and don't fit the revolutionary groupthink. You don't know much about me. Btw, thank you for proving my point about this conversation being useless.
 
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FFP said:
Nobody denies what's still happening in certain parts of this country, especially in the Deep South. Those states were founded by rich slave and plantation owners who moved over from Barbados, not just the usual middle-class colonists running away from persecution/poverty, and it still shows. Also, I expected racism to flare in Minnesota, after some genius planted a ton of Somali refugees there; people tend to become more prejudiced and less tolerant when about their backyard (just look at Brexit).

But cheap generalizations like LBJ's, even just for emphasis, don't help. Or calling "my comments" (or others') ignorant, just because they are not PC, full of liberal hysteria, and don't fit the "revolutionary" groupthink. You don't know much about me. Btw, thank you for proving my point.
Click to expand...

Actually I said unless you try to understand their plight not unless you're "PC, full of liberal hysteria, and don't fit the 'revolutionary' groupthink"
 
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FFP said:
Stunning!

www.theatlantic.com

James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him as a Threat to the Constitution

In an extraordinary condemnation, the former defense secretary backs protesters and says the president is trying to turn Americans against one another.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
Click to expand...

"
The early returns are, uh, not promising.

"It's General Mattis' opinion, he's free to express it," Wisconsin Republican Sen. Ron Johnson told CNN.

"It's just politically fashionable to blame Trump for everything -- and I'm not buying it," said South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham.

"I haven't read it," said Ohio Republican Sen. Rob Portman of the Mattis statement.

(Side rant: How the hell is Portman's answer -- and he's far from alone in this -- an acceptable answer for a UNITED STATES SENATOR? Like, Portman is sooooo busy that he can't make time to read what Mattis wrote? It's a statement, not "War and Peace." And it seems like the former secretary of defense criticizing the President for lacking any instinct to bring the country together feels like sort of a big story that a senator should be aware of?)

The reason for this sort of hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, speak-no-evil approach by the vast majority of Senate Republicans to the Mattis statement is, put plainly, political cowardice.
"

amp.cnn.com

This Republican senator just admitted what we've all known about the GOP for a while now

Sen. Lisa Murkowski said the quiet part out loud.
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com
 
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FFP said:
www.realclearpolitics.com

Black Man Killed by Two White Men -- Cue the 'Race' Hysteria | RealClearPolitics

In February, a black man named Ahmaud Arbery was shot and killed in Brunswick, Georgia. Cue the
www.realclearpolitics.com www.realclearpolitics.com
Ouch!

This was written by a black man. I can only imagine the outrage if a white man pointed out the same facts.
Click to expand...

So are you just going to ignore the facts of the case? That the kid was chased by men in pick up trucks for almost 15 minutes? That he was hit by one of the trucks prior to the shooting? That he was then gunned down after multiple attempts to avoid the men? That the shooter then stood over the kid and called him an effing n-word? That the shooter had a confederate flag sticker on his truck? That all three men weren't arrested for two months?
 
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FFP said:
www.realclearpolitics.com

Black Man Killed by Two White Men -- Cue the 'Race' Hysteria | RealClearPolitics

In February, a black man named Ahmaud Arbery was shot and killed in Brunswick, Georgia. Cue the
www.realclearpolitics.com www.realclearpolitics.com
Ouch!

This was written by a black man. I can only imagine the outrage if a white man pointed out the same facts.
Click to expand...
They (white people) have been pointing out these same facts since time immemorial. Give us a break. Blacks have been portrayed in news, media, popular culture since slavery as a violent being.

Now I don't suppose you are gonna bring up the fact that violence and poverty have nothing to do with each other right? I don't suppose you gonna bring up the fact that lack of a good education and ignorance, have nothing to do with each other right? Slavery, being "freed" and left to fend for yourself, starting with absolutely nothing, and continuing for hundreds of years, being marginalized, not given the same opportunities as the white people. the same type of education because of continued poverty, which statistics show have a cause and effect on crime, that has nothing to do with it right?
How about the fact that there are more white people overall in this country so therefore if there is going to be crime, then, yeah, by numbers alone they are going to be more affected?

So in essence, what you are trying to say is that we black people in this country, are just violent beings. We are going around killing each other and hunting white people as well. Is it in our nature? Is it nurture?

You may be book-smart, but you are ignorant when it comes to the history of this country and the social constructs that explain why many black people in this country continue to live the way they do. I used to be ignorant too about many of these things as a foreigner, then made some Black American friends, and read some stuff and opened my mind that it is not as black and white as many educated, but ignorant people think it is.

If you have any middle class, black friends, or colleagues, please tell us how they are out there committing crimes against each other and hunting white people, since you know, it's what we do.

And thank you for pointing out to us that we are being "hysterical". You know what, it's about damn time we become hysterical at the mistreatment we have received in this country since forcibly brought here against our will. About F time.
 
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FFP said:
I only preach to the choir, to make all the stupidity around me more tolerable, like drinking buddies at the pub. :)
Click to expand...
I disagree with you on this one. Not preaching to the choir is one of my biggest issues with individual society nowadays. It's an uncomfortable position to be in, it's annoying and many conversations are meaningless. But I think that goes hand in hand with "cancel culture". The idea that if somebody doesn't agree with my viewpoints they don't merit interaction.

I know plenty of people who hate me as a minority along with other people who look like me. But unless they're going to directly infringe on my freedom and unless their prejudice directly affects me personally, I'm going to continue to interact with them as I would anybody else. The problem is we've created this illusion that prejudices are anathema to free society and that people's thoughts need to be policed. It's an unachievable ideal and leads to isolation of an already fractured society.

It's actually a lie your average person has been fed. That racism exists only on a purely personal level by "the other side" and if you censure and discipline enough of them you'll institute change. It ignores the structural and institutional racism that exists in the fabric of our society and needs to be dealt with. Any discussion of race is lost without addressing the systemic factors and laws that have led to us being in this boat (factors that are not unique to democrats or republicans btw, both parties have incredibly racist roots, just look at how segregation was instituted in the 1930s and 1940s). But it's a lot easier for either party to weaponize racial tensions in their goal of securing power.

I acknowledge many prejudiced people are terrible and treat people differently based off whatever preconceived notion they have. But eradicating prejudices through censure is not the solution, other prejudices will simply rise and take their place. There is no easy solution, but echo chambers just make us pretend problems don't exist.
 
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chocomorsel said:
They (white people) have been pointing out these same facts since time immemorial. Give us a break. Blacks have been portrayed in news, media, popular culture since slavery as a violent being.

Now I don't suppose you are gonna bring up the fact that violence and poverty have nothing to do with each other right? I don't suppose you gonna bring up the fact that lack of a good education and ignorance, have nothing to do with each other right? Slavery, being "freed" and left to fend for yourself, starting with absolutely nothing, and continuing for hundreds of years, being marginalized, not given the same opportunities as the white people. the same type of education because of continued poverty, which statistics show have a cause and effect on crime, that has nothing to do with it right?
How about the fact that there are more white people overall in this country so therefore if there is going to be crime, then, yeah, by numbers alone they are going to be more affected?

So in essence, what you are trying to say is that we black people in this country, are just violent beings. We are going around killing each other and hunting white people as well. Is it in our nature? Is it nurture?

You may be book-smart, but you are ignorant when it comes to the history of this country and the social constructs that explain why many black people in this country continue to live the way they do. I used to be ignorant too about many of these things as a foreigner, then made some Black American friends, and read some stuff and opened my mind that it is not as black and white as many educated, but ignorant people think it is.

If you have any middle class, black friends, or colleagues, please tell us how they are out there committing crimes against each other and hunting white people, since you know, it's what we do.

And thank you for pointing out to us that we are being "hysterical". You know what, it's about damn time we become hysterical at the mistreatment we have received in this country since forcibly brought here against our will. About F time.
Click to expand...
While I understand your anger and frustration (because I am a much more decent person than you seem to think), it's misdirected. You're putting words in my mouth.

And you also proved my previous point, that one cannot have a civilized conversation about certain PC subjects anymore. I am sorry. It seems I had forgotten that this forum is as bad and intolerant as our society.
 



His entire stream is police meting out their version of street “justice”. More fuel for the fire. How do the police respond to protests against police brutality? More police brutality.
 
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nimbus said:



His entire stream is police meting out their version of street “justice”. More fuel for the fire. How do the police respond to protests against police brutality? More police brutality.
Click to expand...

what do you expect? Put a stick/gun in a persons hand, they are gonna use it to beat people. Stanford prison experiment showed us people cannot be trusted with power. We need checks and balances! People are fed up with stories of cops doing whatever they want and sprinkling crack on the dead bodies and calling us criminals after the fact
 
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MoMoGesiologist said:
what do you expect? Put a stick/gun in a persons hand, they are gonna use it to beat people. Stanford prison experiment showed us people cannot be trusted with power. We need checks and balances! People are fed up with stories of cops doing whatever they want and sprinkling crack on the dead bodies and calling us criminals after the fact
Click to expand...

You would think discipline is a paramount quality for a police officer. Instead many have shown themselves to be emotional clowns. If a foreign government did this to one of our citizens, we would call it torture and be outraged. If our police does it, it’s called law enforcement. Thankful for ubiquitous video and technology.
 
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FFP said:
While I understand your anger and frustration (because I am a much more decent person than you seem to think), it's misdirected. You're putting words in my mouth.

And you also proved my previous point, that one cannot have a civilized conversation about certain PC subjects anymore. I am sorry. It seems I had forgotten that this forum is as bad and intolerant as our society.
Click to expand...
You really think you can have a civilized” conversation about that by citing such an article and then baiting it with “well, if a white person had said that...”

Maybe if you yourself had asked the questions which you may be curious about, then I would have been more “civilized”.

One of my closest doc friends is a white boy from the south. And he sees the world through his view. Totally different from mine. And he said “we black men have been killing each other by the hundreds every day, why is everyone up in arms about this killing?”

It’s the way you posted it.

If you had directly just asked some questions about why there is so much violence in the black community etc, why are jails are full of black people, then there would not have been the implications that came with your “we white people are not allowed to say these things even when they are true.”

The implication is that you already know the “why” but aren’t allowed to speak it, due to the PC police, instead of digging deeper to try find out “the roots” of this. You seem to take the article as face value while ignoring the social constructs and racism that led us here.

That’s why I reacted like that. People need to dig deeper and educate themselves instead of just pointing out statistics and concluding that black folks in this country are just full of violence.
 
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Lawper said:
I really want to believe Turkey's being sarcastic but idk anymore
Click to expand...
Come on. It's just an opportunity to misdirect attention away from their own abuses and you know it. Russia, China, and Iran have made the same super-sincere, deeply earnest, very concerned requests that the US Government not oppress and beat and torture its citizens.

You're smarter than this. Don't parrot their propaganda with this virtue signaling pretend handwringing that you "don't know" if they're sarcastic or not. As if it's genuinely hard to tell whose citizens are really better or worse off. For all the problems we have, and police abuses are way up there, we're not Turkey.
 
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pgg said:
Come on. It's just an opportunity to misdirect attention away from their own abuses and you know it. Russia, China, and Iran have made the same super-sincere, deeply earnest, very concerned requests that the US Government not oppress and beat and torture its citizens.

You're smarter than this. Don't parrot their propaganda with this virtue signaling pretend handwringing that you "don't know" if they're sarcastic or not. As if it's genuinely hard to tell whose citizens are really better or worse off. For all the problems we have, and police abuses are way up there, we're not Turkey.
Click to expand...

Obviously we're not Turkey, but the fact that the phrase And you are lynching Negroes, even 60 years later, fails to be a pure satirization of Soviet whataboutism or other totalitarian propaganda should be a cause for some concern. We are supposed to be the moral leaders of the world, but yet we still have events that are best described as lynchings, the highest incarceration rate in the world, and a president who fired tear gas into a peaceful protest so he could have a photo-OP.
 
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chocomorsel said:
The implication is that you already know the “why” but aren’t allowed to speak it, due to the PC police, instead of digging deeper to try find out “the roots” of this. You seem to take the article as face value while ignoring the social constructs and racism that led us here.
Click to expand...
Trouble is that Republicans and even most moderate Democrats will forever back up the police, no matter what, because they've bought into the police force being a heroic extension or little brother of the military, and their worshipful support of the military has no bounds.

The standard cop is now armored up like a Starship Trooper and thinks "civilians" are the enemy. The police have become the standing army the founders warned us about. (When was the last time the 101st Airborne beat or killed an American? That's not the army we need to be concerned about.) I'd like to think that the last couple weeks are enlightening more white Americans to the reality that while the police mostly leave us alone, they're not our friends, have never been our friends, and they have no interest or intent or obligation to serve or protect anyone.

If the Republican party continues to self destruct maybe police reform will be the silver lining to what a Democratic president and legislature will do next year.


Also, I'll mention it because I can't help it ... the 2nd Amendment is for black and brown people too. Arm yourselves. Demand carry rights. If you're being hunted, defend yourselves. Quit buying the Democratic line that gun control is for your own good. Gun control has never, ever been anything but a tool to oppress the poor, weak, and helpless.
 
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vector2 said:
Obviously we're not Turkey, but the fact that the phrase And you are lynching Negroes, even 60 years later, fails to be a pure satirization of Soviet whataboutism or other totalitarian propaganda should be a cause for some concern. We are supposed to be the moral leaders of the world, but yet we still have events that are best described as lynchings, the highest incarceration rate in the world, and a president who fired tear gas into a peaceful protest so he could have a photo-OP.
Click to expand...
I totally agree - it's huge cause for concern. The last few years have been extraordinarily damaging to our ability to be a force for good in the world.
 
pgg said:
and they have no interest or intent or obligation to serve or protect anyone.
Click to expand...

Back in ‘92 the LAPD changed their motto from To Protect and to Serve to We Treat You Like a King.
 
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Arch Guillotti said:
Couldn't be further from the truth:)
Click to expand...

Both things can be true simultaneously. Your average liberal citizen and maybe even your average well-meaning liberal politician might think that gun control is a means to decrease gun violence and promote safety.

The reality is that the folks most likely to be adversely affected from gun control policy are the ones that are already disadvantaged to begin with. The down on their luck couple that lives in a bad neighborhood, your minority that is at risk of physical violence. The "crazy gun nut" who lives in a mansion and has a cellar filled with automatic rifles and 10,000 rounds of ammo is going to be a lot less affected. I mean if the rampant police brutality we're seeing isn't evidence enough, I don't know what is.

Also, the history of gun control in this country is rife with examples of its use as a tactic to police minorities, immigrants and African Americans.

"The Gun Control act of 1968 was another major shift in firearm restrictions. The supposed aim of this bill was a reduction in crime, but an underlying motive was to keep black militant groups from arming themselves with readily available and inexpensive weapons. The new objective became the removal of inexpensive firearms from the market. Banning cheap guns was justified as a safety precaution to protect consumers and a way to keep criminals from accessing cheap firearms. One of the major accomplishments of this kind of legislation, however, was keeping guns out of the hands of the poorer people in society. The poor had truly become the primary target in gun control. Gun bans were instituted in order to keep the poor from legally possessing firearms. On the surface this seems like a reasonable way to keep guns out of crime prone areas. In reality, it ensures that criminals will be the only people with firearms. People who obey the law, but need housing assistance, will have no means to protect themselves."
 
pgg said:
Also, I'll mention it because I can't help it ... the 2nd Amendment is for black and brown people too. Arm yourselves. Demand carry rights. If you're being hunted, defend yourselves. Quit buying the Democratic line that gun control is for your own good. Gun control has never, ever been anything but a tool to oppress the poor, weak, and helpless.
Click to expand...
I 100% agree with this statement, the problem is in practice. I've had this take on here before. I will get viewed and treated a whole lot different carrying a gun or even using a gun in self defense than my white friends. I know plenty will say that is overreaction, but honestly, given the way America works currently, I'm not willing to take that chance.

I do worry about the current rhetoric this President uses and the potential nightmare that could occur if he's not re-elected which does make me what to bear arms, but that I will admit is somewhat overreacting and I hope that's true.

Edit:
In case anyone is curious about what i mean in that second paragraph. I've never really been worried about my safety in the US, for the most part, until I saw armed militias prancing into state capitols with semi-automatic weapons protesting so "they could go to restaurants". For me personally, that was a worrisome look because our authorities just allowed that stuff. If you really want to talk about equality in the 2nd amendment, let a group of Black Lives Matter protests march in the street with AR-15s, not even a state capitol, but just in the street. The headline the next day will look MUCH different.
 
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