I think you brought up some great points. I'd be interested why you, Brooother, chose Phx over Tuc? And why does everyone else's preference seem to be Tucson? Seeing as how I'm on the alternate list at both, I probably will not even be close to lucky enough to choose. But still, I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions here.
Hi, Mad,
It was a very close tie between Tucson and Phoenix for me, and I know I would be extremely happy and successful at either. Because it was such a tough decision, I re-visited both campuses and shadowed students in order to see their typical school-day experiences. I went to Tucson first, and at the end of the day I thought for sure I had made my choice (Tucson) and didn't even feel the need to visit Phoenix! The next day in Phoenix, however, I felt that that school was the best "fit" for me. Here's what I felt concerning both schools (please remember, this was my own personal opinion based upon the questions I asked at both campuses and my observations of both as well - if something seems incorrect, please don't blame me, it's just what I gathered!):
Tucson:
Pros:
- certainly, having the teaching hospital connected to the school is great - students can have access to tons of clinical experience instantaneously, even during limited time between courses
- students seem super-happy and sociable, very welcoming environment
- faculty seem very approachable, but larger class sizes make the instructors also seem slightly more distant
- Societies program is great - direct clinical interactions aided by a physician, allows for discussion and small-group learning
- gorgeous library
- podcasts and posting of lectures allows for more freedom and the ability to repeat exposure to material if needed
Cons: (remember, just my observations!)
- students perhaps seem to have a little too much fun - lots of talk about parties and trips, not as much talk about material! Certainly made for a fun, social, close-knit atmosphere, but just seemed a little too much like undergrad to me
- the fact that lectures are posted affects attendance pretty significantly. Students told me that there are many more people in each class but that many don't attend because they watch online or something
- Tucson is working diligently to make more exams Boards-format, but students admitted that this was the area they were least happy with in Tucson
- the teaching hospital's vicinity is great, but it seems that students outnumber docs quite a bit, making for a less individualized clinical education
- block curriculum is gaining momentum and improving thanks to student input, but is still a difficult transition for long-time faculty members. When I asked about this, a member of the staff said that they had met some resistance with older instructors not wanting to change.
While certainly Tucson has the greater foundation, I felt that this may have some negative consequences in a lack of flexibility and willingness to change and modernize. Again, it is a great school, but being on or near the large undergrad campus felt a little too much like "college", when I'm ready for a smaller, more professional feel. This is a personal preference - I am an older, non-traditional applicant and want a more serious, unique, and challenging experience that in many ways Tucson cannot offer me. And perhaps I shouldn't be at all concerned, but in considering both the slow transition to the new system (which apparently took place as a complete overhauling due to failure to change slowly over time, according to a faculty member) and the maybe-too-fun attitudes of students, the 15% Boards failure thing does kind of scare me.
Phoenix:
Pros:
- small class size of 48 means more individualized attention. Yes, more pressure - your instructors know who you are, know if you skip class, etc - but frankly I'm ready for this pressure and feel it will only make me a better med student
- curriculum actually seems more innovative and logical to me, and I love the "capstone" week following each block, where students do not attend regular classes but go into the community to observe the clinical applications of the topics they just studied
- thesis - because both schools are pass/fail, as are many schools these days, you want a way to stand out. Tucson students said they felt this was important as well and that they wanted to do it on their own accord without a requirement, but I think the requirement makes it easier to fit into the busy med school schedule and makes it more likely that you'll get it done rather than procrastinate and put it off until you "have more time" (which you never will!)
- instead of Societies, med students are paired with a physician in the community who mentors them - again, more pressure, but more incentive to be on top of studying, and an amazing way to get such focused attention
- exams are Boards-format
- more instructor availability and teacher-student relationships
- lack of large college campus makes for a very professional feel
- students seemed happy, but more focused and serious and perhaps older
- MDs in Phoenix have wanted an allopathic school for a long time - many want to be involved, so physicians outnumber students and provide limitless opportunities to shadow and get involved clinically
- based solely on my shadowing of students and their courses, the Phoenix courses I sat in on seemed far more challenging than those in Tucson... again, I struggle to say this because it may have only been that one day and my own interpretation
- access to the Y to work out, plus ASU resources
Cons:
- mainly, the gamble, which I feel is certainly very significant! No numbers for Boards scores yet, no match results.
- downtown Phoenix - fun area, but I hated how you can constantly hear the cars speeding by outside!
- have to drive elsewhere for clinical experience and gross anatomy lab
- great facilities... those that exist. The research building is beautiful, but most of the campus isn't built yet
- no library, although there are study "pods" and you have access to the ASU Downtown library
- lacks the larger student lounge in Tucson
I really do think that both schools are amazing, and again, while I sound biased now because I have chosen my campus, at the time it was a very difficult decision for me and really did come down to the best "fit" for me, which obviously varies from person to person. Being from northern AZ, I don't have ties to either city and didn't really consider that factor in making my decision, which I think is actually a good thing; I could look purely at the education I would receive. I just felt like I belonged at the Phoenix school in a smaller, more professional environment. I also felt that Phoenix has more to prove - certainly, if the students fail, the med school fails, and vice-versa; being a new school means that criticism will be sharp and Phoenix needs to show everyone that it is top-notch and should be taken seriously. For this reason, I felt that the Phoenix campus will bend over backwards to make sure the students succeed - they don't want to look bad! Along those same lines, I decided it would be fun and challenging to be a part of building something up, rather than being one of many to go through the Tucson campus and blending in, perhaps. Bottom-line is I felt that Phoenix would make me the best doctor I could be because it will challenge me to take control of my education and make it happen for myself.
Again, I can't stress this enough - BOTH SCHOOLS ARE GREAT!! I really don't want to offend anyone with this post, so please understand that this was based on my own ideas as to what I want out of my med school and the impressions I got when I visited. Of course, they could be completely false and I may have mis-interpreted everything, and my info gather comes from these experiences plus conversations with faculty members and doctors across the state. I have a few connections with people in the field that I trust, but of course, this makes me biased and makes me put more weight on these other people's opinions. Blah blah, I just can't say it enough - this was the thought process for my decision-making, and it will be different and unique for everyone!
