MCW or VCU, please help!

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choichoi

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I was wondering if anyone had any opinions regarding these two schools. I was looking up board scores and such and it seemed like the two schools are pretty on par with one another. MCW is in Milwaukee and VCU is in Richmond so neither of them are in a big city. I'm having a hard deciding between the two. So does anyone have any thoughts as to which school might be better?? Any opinion would help, please!!!
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I interviewed at both and was accepted at both this cycle, though I won't be attending either.

Cost of living is higher in Richmond though tuition is pretty much equal between both of you are OOS for both.

What I liked about MCW
- They seemed to be very organized.
- Stand alone medical school. They are there 100% to train doctors.
- I like access to the big city but I prefer to live somewhere more quiet. MCW is perfect for that.
- Good "feel"
- Lower cost of living

Disliked about MCW
- You spend a lot of time in class. You can find the daily schedule on the website. It looks like you can count on being busy from about 8-3.
- I like the snow. I like winter. But Milwaukee cold might be more cold than I like.
- No gym on campus! Not a big deal really...

What I liked about VCU
- Big, busy campus. (Possibly a negative too)
- The whole board study help thing
- Seemed to be very interested in the students (though really I heard and felt this at every school I was at)
- Better weather than MCW!

Disliked about VCU
- Expensive housing, maybe harder to live close to campus
- Would I be lost in the shuffle with all the other students at such a busy medical center?
- Long tour =] j/k
- More humid and warm

I thought these schools were pretty equal. I was going to choose MCW over VCU before getting another acceptance because I personally prefer the lower cost of living with a smaller area. This would have been a choice based much more on geography, climate, city, recreation available, etc. more than anything else. Of course if you are IS for either school that would make a big difference too.
 
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Transmogrifier said:
I interviewed at both and was accepted at both this cycle, though I won't be attending either.

Cost of living is higher in Richmond though tuition is pretty much equal between both of you are OOS for both.

What I liked about MCW
- They seemed to be very organized.
- Stand alone medical school. They are there 100% to train doctors.
- I like access to the big city but I prefer to live somewhere more quiet. MCW is perfect for that.
- Good "feel"
- Lower cost of living

Disliked about MCW
- You spend a lot of time in class. You can find the daily schedule on the website. It looks like you can count on being busy from about 8-3.
- I like the snow. I like winter. But Milwaukee cold might be more cold than I like.
- No gym on campus! Not a big deal really...

What I liked about VCU
- Big, busy campus. (Possibly a negative too)
- The whole board study help thing
- Seemed to be very interested in the students (though really I heard and felt this at every school I was at)
- Better weather than MCW!

Disliked about VCU
- Expensive housing, maybe harder to live close to campus
- Would I be lost in the shuffle with all the other students at such a busy medical center?
- Long tour =] j/k
- More humid and warm

I thought these schools were pretty equal. I was going to choose MCW over VCU before getting another acceptance because I personally prefer the lower cost of living with a smaller area. This would have been a choice based much more on geography, climate, city, recreation available, etc. more than anything else. Of course if you are IS for either school that would make a big difference too.
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I dont know much about MCW but it is hard for me to believe the cost of living would be significantly different. A decent 2br apt w/ 1 roomate in the fan runs about $500/mo each. It is not as if Richmond is expensive.

The board review at VCU is a godsend.

I am a 3rd year at VCU so i can can answer any questions you have.
 
VCU, though personally, I think it should be called the Medical College of Virginia. Richmond is a great city, close to DC, close to the Norfolk area, lots of options.
 
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Transmogrifier said:
Disliked about MCW
- You spend a lot of time in class. You can find the daily schedule on the website. It looks like you can count on being busy from about 8-3.
- I like the snow. I like winter. But Milwaukee cold might be more cold than I like.
- No gym on campus! Not a big deal really...
Click to expand...
1. There is a lot of class, but I skipped a lot of it. It's up to you how much lecture you attend.

2. Yeah, the winter here sucks right now.

3. There is a gym on campus ;) the Tonkens center is in the basement of MCW, and it's maybe 1200 square feet, with 24/7 access. It has a few treadmills, ellipticals and exercise bikes. There's free weights and exercise machines too. If you want a nicer gym, you can do what I did and get a membership at the WAC across the street (literally adjacent to the M1/M2 parking lot), which is really nice. That's $50/month for one person though.


I'm finishing up M3 at MCW, so if you've got questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
 
I found there to be two major differences between these schools:

(1) Clinical skills training facilities
MCW: STAR Center (really cool)

VCU: small, tiny rooms on the 2nd floor of Egyptian building
​
(2) M2 curriculum
VCU: Systems, block

MCW: Micro, Path, Pharm, Psych*
​
So it seems to me that for M1, M2 intro to clinical skills that MCW > VCU.

But I think VCU > MCW for basic science curriculum.

*Can someone please tell me (TheProwler maybe) what is up with the 6 months of "Foundations of Clinical Psychiatry" in second year? Six months? Really? That sounds scary ....

Can anyone familar with VCU expand upon the "Foundations" course? Do you feel it prepares you well for 3rd year?
 
Classic said:
I found there to be two major differences between these schools:

(1) Clinical skills training facilities
MCW: STAR Center (really cool)

VCU: small, tiny rooms on the 2nd floor of Egyptian building​

​
Click to expand...


I do not think nicer rooms for intro to clinical medicine would make you a better doctor...IMO

I think VCU has a very solid program, great clinical opportunities, UNOS is right next to the hospital, they have the 4th largest hospital system in the US (or something like that), opportunity to have exposure to rural care if wanted, and lots of other stuff...

I would say go to VCU, but it is ultimately which ever school you are more comfortable with. Good luck, and congrats on your acceptances OP!:thumbup:​
 
Classic said:
.

*Can someone please tell me (TheProwler maybe) what is up with the 6 months of "Foundations of Clinical Psychiatry" in second year? Six months? Really? That sounds scary ....
Click to expand...

One day a week of Psych lecture + going to hospitals or some other place to do psych interviews with real patients. There are many locations. I went to the VA.

The STAR center is mainly used for OSCEs and the sim man is used in the 3rd year anesthesia rotation.
 
Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate all your comments :)

Does anyone know how each of the school's residency match results compare along with board scores. I know the board scores for the two schools are roughly the same(224-225) but I was wondering how they prep you for the boards. I've heard that VCU has a really good board prep from Dr. Coztanzo but I haven't heard much about MCW.

Also how is living in Richmond or Milwaukee like? I'm from California. I've lived in Maryland for a while along with Ohio but I've never ventured further south or west of those places so I was wondering how life in those two cities are.

Thanks!
 
choichoi said:
Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate all your comments :)

Does anyone know how each of the school's residency match results compare along with board scores. I know the board scores for the two schools are roughly the same(224-225) but I was wondering how they prep you for the boards. I've heard that VCU has a really good board prep from Dr. Coztanzo but I haven't heard much about MCW.

Also how is living in Richmond or Milwaukee like? I'm from California. I've lived in Maryland for a while along with Ohio but I've never ventured further south or west of those places so I was wondering how life in those two cities are.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

There's a program that was started for board review the year after I took step 1, so I don't know much about it, but apparently it's really popular.

There's a TON of people from California here. I think it'd be similar to OH, depending on which part of OH. I'm from CA/HI, and I've managed to survive 4 years in MKE, and I've got 4 to go.

Don't compare match lists. It's class dependent. I've posted the MCW match list, but really, don't use match lists. Law2Doc has many explanations as to why not already in pre-allo. I don't even know who got their 1st choice unless they told me.
 
choichoi said:
Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate all your comments :)

Does anyone know how each of the school's residency match results compare along with board scores. I know the board scores for the two schools are roughly the same(224-225) but I was wondering how they prep you for the boards. I've heard that VCU has a really good board prep from Dr. Coztanzo but I haven't heard much about MCW.

Also how is living in Richmond or Milwaukee like? I'm from California. I've lived in Maryland for a while along with Ohio but I've never ventured further south or west of those places so I was wondering how life in those two cities are.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

From what I have seen, living in Richmond is similar to living in Maryland, but take this as an outsider's viewpoint. My sister says it is not that bad, and she was a SoCaler... Also, she had one of her tests cancelled because it started snowing... that is kind of cool, except that it was rescheduled to the same day as the other test... In Milwaukee, there will be snow, the whole winter...
 
Instatewaiter said:
I dont know much about MCW but it is hard for me to believe the cost of living would be significantly different. A decent 2br apt w/ 1 roomate in the fan runs about $500/mo each. It is not as if Richmond is expensive.

The board review at VCU is a godsend.

I am a 3rd year at VCU so i can can answer any questions you have.
Click to expand...
I guess I must have talked to the wrong people! Everyone I talked to was paying $900-1200/month.
 
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TheProwler said:
1. There is a lot of class, but I skipped a lot of it. It's up to you how much lecture you attend.

2. Yeah, the winter here sucks right now.

3. There is a gym on campus ;) the Tonkens center is in the basement of MCW, and it's maybe 1200 square feet, with 24/7 access. It has a few treadmills, ellipticals and exercise bikes. There's free weights and exercise machines too. If you want a nicer gym, you can do what I did and get a membership at the WAC across the street (literally adjacent to the M1/M2 parking lot), which is really nice. That's $50/month for one person though.


I'm finishing up M3 at MCW, so if you've got questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
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Dang! The interviews are blurring in my head! What I do remember correctly then is no RACQUETBALL courts on campus at MCW. Which is a big deal for me. I do remember there was the gym nearby but it had the outrageous monthly fees. So yeah, there ya go, trust actual students, not me.
 
Transmogrifier said:
I guess I must have talked to the wrong people! Everyone I talked to was paying $900-1200/month.
Click to expand...

Yeah they are probably in the River lofts which are expensive 1 bedroom apts over looking the river. Frankly these places are very overpriced, especially for Richmond. Here's a link that compares apt prices- scroll down to the bottom. Notice that Richmond is actually marginally cheaper than Milwaukee http://www.discoverabroad.com/US/LivingAbroad/Housing/ApartmentMore.htm Neither is expensive though so i doubt cost of living would differ substantially between the 2.

Foundations of Clinical Medicine at MCV/VCU
Longitudinal 2 year course where you learn the basics of interview skills, physical exam skills, and differential formation. You spend 3 hours per week either with a small group going through how to do a physical/practicing physicals or with a preceptor in the community where you practice your skills on real patients. You also use standardized patients during the small group sessions. You are very ready for third year.

Board Prep at MCV/VCU
Dr Costanzo runs our board prep. She writes the physiology text almost every medical student uses for the boards, is an editor for first aid and does a lot of research on the USMLE.

Anyway you have a 1 hour lecture at lunch a few days a week during the second half of 2nd year. You basically review the high points of the first 2 years. Then when school ends you have 3-5 days of intense review of the very impt topics right before you settle down to study on your own. These include phys, pharm, path, behavioral science etc for about 8 hours a day.

The best part of the prep is that Dr Costanzo meets individually with every student during the second part of 2nd year and goes over grades and weaknesses. From that she gives you which books to use and a day-by-day study plan. She's done the research so she know how to advise people. She basically predicted my score even before I studied. Her study plan was gold for me.
 
choichoi said:
Thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate all your comments :)

Does anyone know how each of the school's residency match results compare along with board scores. I know the board scores for the two schools are roughly the same(224-225) but I was wondering how they prep you for the boards. I've heard that VCU has a really good board prep from Dr. Coztanzo but I haven't heard much about MCW.

Also how is living in Richmond or Milwaukee like? I'm from California. I've lived in Maryland for a while along with Ohio but I've never ventured further south or west of those places so I was wondering how life in those two cities are.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I'm not a student at VCU, but I live in Richmond and I work pretty close to VCU so I'll give you a little bit of insight.

Basically Richmond has everything you need in a small city and it's close to DC and Baltimore. I personally like big cities (which is why I'm going to school in Philly), but Richmond isn't that bad. I've lived in Baltimore and it's definitely a lot smaller than Baltimore, with less to do, but not too bad.

The weather is decent....doesn't get too horribly cold or too horribly hot, but doesn't compare to the weather in California.

As far as rent goes, it's all over the place. I'm not sure how close you want to live to campus, but if you're going to be living alone I would expect to pay anywhere from $600-$1000 for a 1 or 2 bedroom. Crime in Richmond is ok....it's a lot higher than other small cities, but it has been on the decline recently.

There are a decent amount of restaurants and bars around both campuses of VCU.

Overall I think Richmond is a decent place, not my preference because it's too small, but it has a good cost of living and isn't lacking in necessities.
 
Classic said:
(2) M2 curriculum
VCU: Systems, block

MCW: Micro, Path, Pharm, Psych*
​
So it seems to me that for M1, M2 intro to clinical skills that MCW > VCU.

But I think VCU > MCW for basic science curriculum.
Click to expand...
Just so you know, the new dean at MCW is changing the curriculum to a systems-based curriculum. I liked the current system, but they will be changing it - as soon as this year, but almost certainly by next year.

*Can someone please tell me (TheProwler maybe) what is up with the 6 months of "Foundations of Clinical Psychiatry" in second year? Six months? Really? That sounds scary ....
Click to expand...
Like Ashers said, it's mostly just one lecture a week for 1-2 hours, and then a small group session afterwards, either at the local mental health facility, or at the VA psych ward, or another place.

It also includes your 1-2 month human sexuality class, which is also just a lecture or two per week. It's not that big of a deal.
 
Would the systems-based curriculum be better?? I guess it's more of a personal preference as to which kind of style you like but do you think the transition would go well? Do you know it would affect the incoming students?

Also how are the clinical experience like at MCW and VCU, anyone know? Do a lot of people do rotations out of Wisconsin and Virginia or mostly stay near school.

Thanks guys for all your help!
 
choichoi said:
Would the systems-based curriculum be better?? I guess it's more of a personal preference as to which kind of style you like but do you think the transition would go well? Do you know it would affect the incoming students?

Also how are the clinical experience like at MCW and VCU, anyone know? Do a lot of people do rotations out of Wisconsin and Virginia or mostly stay near school.

Thanks guys for all your help!
Click to expand...

personally, I liked the systems based curriculum second year at MCV.

As for clinical experiences at VCU- they are good. There are 3 sites where we do clinicals: the VA, MCV-hospitals and INOVA fairfax.

Some people use VCU/MCV's hospital and some (mainly people who are from northern virginia) go up to INOVA Fairfax. Both are ~800 bed hospitals with level 1 trauma centers with excellent clinicals. MCVH is right next to where we have classes the first 2 years so during the foundations of clinical medicine course we sometimes go over there and practice on real patients.

The VA is just like any other VA in the country- you have very little clinicals at the VA unless you want them there.
 
TheProwler said:
Just so you know, the new dean at MCW is changing the curriculum to a systems-based curriculum. I liked the current system, but they will be changing it - as soon as this year, but almost certainly by next year.
Click to expand...

Okay, this is a HUGE determinant of my decision. But there is no mention of it anywhere on the MCW website. Is it likely at this point that the class of 2013 will be the last one through before the curriculum shift?
 
So I just emailed Michael Istwan and he said the change will be gradual over the next 3 to 5 years. The planning is in its initial stages and the incoming class won't be affected and no real change is expected for the incoming M1 and M2's. He said there may be a little less class time but no biggies.

Hope this helps!
 
This is interesting because VCU is also in the process of changing their curriculum (I think by 2012).

'tis the season to overhaul curriculum, or what??
 
I am attending MCW this fall, and I was encouraged by the fact that curriculum is going to be gradually changed. I interviewed at one school where they had a drastic overhaul and the M1s said it was an absolute disaster.
 
Classic said:
This is interesting because VCU is also in the process of changing their curriculum (I think by 2012).

'tis the season to overhaul curriculum, or what??
Click to expand...
well, yeah, the Flexner report IS about to hit its 100th anniversary...
 
I just got off the VCU waitlist and kept my MCW acceptance after may 15 :D and I was wondering whether any of the current students knew how many of their classmates were planning on entering orthopedics? Also, what kind of facilities/shadowing experiences are available to students interested in this field (particularly sports medicine) at each school?

Also, how do the VCU students feel about the INOVA campus? I'm from maryland so I am interested in doing my last 2 years there if I were to choose VCU.

I have 2 weeks to drop one of the acceptances :eek: so any help would be greatly appreciated = )
 
Transmogrifier said:
Disliked about MCW
- You spend a lot of time in class. You can find the daily schedule on the website. It looks like you can count on being busy from about 8-3.
- I like the snow. I like winter. But Milwaukee cold might be more cold than I like.
- No gym on campus! Not a big deal really...
.
Click to expand...

WAC (Wisconsin Athletic Club) is across the street from the Blood Center. 2 minutes from campus on foot. :thumbup:
 
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