2011-2012 Michigan State Application Thread

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astr1x said:
Thanks a lot! I definitely will not be cocky, especially since I didn't get an interview last time I applied there haha. Hopefully they'll be nice 😉
By the way did you call in or email?
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I called the other school but always emailed MSU. The other school was supposed to be exceptionally receptive to phone calls, I'm not sure if MSU is. Calls force you to be heard, which can be good or bad. I think most people probably email. If you do call, keep it brief and be respectful, you're obviously interjecting into someone's busy day.
 
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Interview invite this morning via email. I was complete 7/14 and I'm OOS. I need to reschedule the date they gave me, but I'm pretty excited.
 
any OOSers with IIs, what were your stats like? ties to michigan?
 
This thread needs some more life in it... decision date is coming up soon. Three weeks for the first batch of interviewees... oh boy.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPrbapVYa_I&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
 
Hey guys,

So the MSU Secondary application has been sitting in my email for the past month now. I noticed today that I had to pay the secondary fee within 2 weeks of recieving it. Should I even bother completing it now since it has been four weeks?

I see that others in this thread were in the same situation I'm in now. Can you share any updates with us please.
 
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Novus39 said:
Hey guys,

So the MSU Secondary application has been seating in my email for the past month now. I noticed today that I had to pay the secondary fee within 2 weeks of recieving it. Should I even bother completing it now since it has been four weeks?

I see that others in this thread were in the same situation I'm in now. Can you share any updates with us please.
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Contact them on your own is your best bet. Good luck!!!
 
CodeBlu said:
Also, if anyone needs help prepping for the interview or what to expect... ask away.
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What were the questions like? Did you interview at EL or GR? What did you think of the campus? The Parking?

Open or closed file?

Hardest question?
 
Dartmouth2005 said:
What were the questions like? Did you interview at EL or GR? What did you think of the campus? The Parking?

Open or closed file?

Hardest question?
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Questions were standard for the most part.

I interviewed at EL. Campus is massive, older type buildings for the medical school. But this doesn't matter much at all. Students are all very happy.

Parking was validated for free.

And the file is open, but the interviewers are blinded to your academic record (GPA and MCAT scores).

Hardest question?? Hmmm.... you're presented with a killer new antibiotic from a leading pharma company. The rep tells you that the drug is the best there is and offers you incentive to prescribe it... what do you do? how do you handle the rep?
 
After 4 weeks of classes I've realized that one of the huge strengths of CHM is how closely the material is integrated between our separate classes. We are currently taking medical biochemistry (cellular level structure/function), physiology and histology (tissue level structure/function), and anatomy (gross level structure/function). Our course packs and professors continually cross-reference between classes which is great for seeing the big picture. It's obvious that the curriculum has been tweaked over the years to arrange our lectures so that certain material coincides. We are also presented with clinical correlations for a vast majority of the material. I personally love that! It reminds me that there is a reason we are learning glycolysis, ppp, tca cycle etc. when it may seem tedious. We have to learn this stuff so that we can better understand how abnormalities in any one of hundreds of enzymes correlate to disease/disfunction.

Anyways, I love MSU. Now, back to studying.

😍
 
i NEED to hear something from here. my anxiety is high.
 
+1 To everything being really really well integrated. So much so that when studying it's easy to forget if you're studying for anatomy, biochem, or physiology, because they blend really well.
 
thank you!

im so anxious to hear back from here.
 
equalizer said:
Yea. those are me exact metrics. 3.5/30/ but I am URM and non-traditional.
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Remember that there is still a ban on affirmative action in Michigan. Race cannot factor into admissions decisions per the MI constitutional amendment. And, it is likely that the 6th circuit will uphold the ban based on its decision to revisit the case en banc. Sucks big time.
 
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Dartmouth2005 said:
Remember that there is still a ban on affirmative action in Michigan. Race cannot factor into admissions decisions per the MI constitutional amendment. And, it is likely that the 6th circuit will uphold the ban based on its decision to revisit the case en banc. Sucks big time.
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😕

No, I don't think it sucks big time at all. It's fair. If you have the academic merits to handle medical school, it shouldn't matter what race you are.
 
I agree codeblu. My UG institution has quotas for seats and I am not even bothering applying
 
There is a reason that there are URMs in medicine. This is not due to minority groups being less apt to succeed in medicine, but due to various prior social issues that caused this gap to arise in the first place. So I don't see anything wrong if schools allocate a few seats every year to QUALIFIED minority student.

CodeBlu Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartmouth2005
Remember that there is still a ban on affirmative action in Michigan. Race cannot factor into admissions decisions per the MI constitutional amendment. And, it is likely that the 6th circuit will uphold the ban based on its decision to revisit the case en banc. Sucks big time.

😕

No, I don't think it sucks big time at all. It's fair. If you have the academic merits to handle medical school, it shouldn't matter what race you are.
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sandzakmd said:
There is a reason that there are URMs in medicine. This is not due to minority groups being less apt to succeed in medicine, but due to various prior social issues that caused this gap to arise in the first place. So I don't see anything wrong if schools allocate a few seats every year to QUALIFIED minority student.
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I agree, for many URM (not all) there are social barriers to medical school, inter-generational poverty, property taxes to fund education, red-lining, and gentrification, to name a few; however, this reality does affect ORM as well. There are many forms of AA which I don't agree with (sports scholarships, legacy points, etc.), but I think AA in regards to race and ethnicity is a very dangerous way to go if transparency is lacking, which is the case for UC schools.

Based on past trends, I would vote against AA (again, unless greater transparency is forthcoming). There are many avenues to social justice, so it's good to be creative.
:idea:

EDIT: Which WAS the case for UC schools, although this can be argued, and with new legislation in the not-to-far distance...
 
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CodeBlu said:
😕

No, I don't think it sucks big time at all. It's fair. If you have the academic merits to handle medical school, it shouldn't matter what race you are.
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It's good to be a little more critical when looking at race, class, power, and history. There's a lot of intersect. Schools are largely funded through property tax; how do you think this affects the quality of education in poor communities? It's a vicious cycle of poverty.

And this whole debate gets muddled when you factor in illegal immigration, healthcare as a right or privilege, free will, gang violence...

No, I won't go there :scared:
 
mipp0 said:
It's good to be a little more critical when looking at race, class, power, and history. There's a lot of intersect. Schools are largely funded through property tax; how do you think this affects the quality of education in poor communities? It's a vicious cycle of poverty.

And this whole debate gets muddled when you factor in illegal immigration, healthcare as a right or privilege, free will, gang violence...

No, I won't go there :scared:
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Good idea. Cuz I would love to debate this with you.

The fact of the matter is... if affirmative action worked the way it was supposed to, it'd be amazing.

Unfortunately, the idea was great, but the execution was poor.
 
You guys should consider that desiring URM applicants is not (either entirely or partly) based on affirmative action. Part of making medicine a better field is thinking of the patients. Some (arguably many) patients will be more comfortable if they are able to have access to a doctor of the same background. With the patient doctor relationship being so hinged on trust, this is one step that may be necessary for some patients. The idea being that the makeup of the collection of doctors should attempt to match the makeup of the general population, which certainly was not the case decades ago.

Not to mention that diversity of backgrounds will always enhance the capabilities of a team-based profession.
 
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Nothing in practice works as well as it was intended to do so in theory. The same goes for AA. However, as Acoustic pointed out, the slight preference given to URMs is done for a reason.

I am sure others have different opinions, but if I had to bet on who was more likely to succeed in medicine, I would choose the 30/3.4 applicant from a poverty stricken community over someone with slightly higher stats that never worked a legitimate day in his life and had access to every conceivable educational resource every time. But maybe that's just me....

Not a URM applicant by the way
 
Acoustic said:
You guys should consider that desiring URM applicants is not (either entirely or partly) based on affirmative action. Part of making medicine a better field is thinking of the patients. Some (arguably many) patients will be more comfortable if they are able to have access to a doctor of the same background. With the patient doctor relationship being so hinged on trust, this is one step that may be necessary for some patients. The idea being that the makeup of the collection of doctors should attempt to match the makeup of the general population, which certainly was not the case decades ago.

Not to mention that diversity of backgrounds will always enhance the capabilities of a team-based profession.
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Diversity encompasses many factors, and race and ethnicity are just two. People from every ethnic background in America experience poverty and barriers to social mobility in some form or another. It would be naive to argue that a black doctor is better able to empathize, connect, and care for another black patient if their socioeconomic, political, religious, class, etc. backgrounds differ to a large extent versus let's say another Asian doctor shares that background with the patient. I've worked with (not shadowed, WORKED) with physicians in a community that is incredibly diverse. I don't recall a patient feeling uncomfortable because of a physician's race, but hey, I live in California, which is probably a bubble. (<-- if your next comment is, well I don't live in multiculturally diverse states like Cali, NY, Washington, etc. touche, I probably lost that argument in your state :laugh:)

Let's not reduce AA, its flaws, and its merits to a simple equation, because it isn't. Just because AA isn't perfect doesn't mean we can't improve it. That kind of thinking gives AA opponents greater strength. These kinds of programs REQUIRE transparency. I am not against AA. And "small" advantage is subjective; I would argue AA provides a "large" advantage based on numbers and statistics in California.

If all applicants who benefit from AA (doesn't matter what ethnicity) were to guarantee service in under-served communities, I would have NO problem with it. If all stats and activities of applicants of AA were readily available to the public (anonymously of course), the public wouldn't have reason to worry.

My 2 centz...

*EDIT: I agree with your last sentence, however. Diversity does improve team-based capabilities, but again, diversity is not limited to the shade of a person's skin.
 
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sandzakmd said:
Nothing in practice works as well as it was intended to do so in theory. The same goes for AA. However, as Acoustic pointed out, the slight preference given to URMs is done for a reason.

I am sure others have different opinions, but if I had to bet on who was more likely to succeed in medicine, I would choose the 30/3.4 applicant from a poverty stricken community over someone with slightly higher stats that never worked a legitimate day in his life and had access to every conceivable educational resource every time. But maybe that's just me....

Not a URM applicant by the way
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And what if the poverty stricken 30/3.4 applicant were an ORM and the latter applicant an URM? Let's not make ASSUMPTIONS about the lived experiences of people based on race/ethnicity. A little hypocritical, no?

That's why invites are on a case-by-case basis.
 
mipp0 said:
And what if the poverty stricken 30/3.4 applicant were an ORM and the latter applicant an URM? Let's not make ASSUMPTIONS about the lived experiences of people based on race/ethnicity. A little hypocritical, no?

That's why invites are on a case-by-case basis.
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This. 1000 times this.

😍
 
This is not an assumption but statistical fact. Look at the demographics of low income communities and you will see that they have disproportionally high number of minority groups. I did not imply being URM automatically means you come from an economically disadvantaged background, that is just something you assumed No? However it is clear that if you are URM that you are more like to come from a family that is less well off then an ORM applicant.

Those are statistics available all around you my friend not hypocritical statements
 
sandzakmd said:
This is not an assumption but statistical fact. Look at the demographics of low income communities and you will see that they have disproportionally high number of minority groups. I did not imply being URM automatically means you come from an economically disadvantaged background, that is just something you assumed No? However it is clear that if you are URM that you are more like to come from a family that is less off then an ORM applicant.
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You know... I really hope you don't make these generalizations about your patients and their families. It could get you into a lot of trouble.

Also, you can't boil everything down to statistics.
 
This needs it's own thread. Clogging the MSU one
 
CodeBlu said:
You know... I really hope you don't make these generalizations about your patients and their families. It could get you into a lot of trouble.

Also, you can't boil everything down to statistics.
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This is not about generalization, nor do I advocate it. I am all for a case-by-case analysis. However, I do not think the extra obstacles many, not all, URM applicants and applicants from disadvantaged backgrounds face should be just thrown out the window like some advocate

And I will leave it at that since, as bvand086 pointed out, this is not the place for such a discussion 🙂
 
mipp0 said:
Diversity encompasses many factors, and race and ethnicity are just two. People from every ethnic background in America experience poverty and barriers to social mobility in some form or another. It would be naive to argue that a black doctor is better able to empathize, connect, and care for another black patient if their socioeconomic, political, religious, class, etc. backgrounds differ to a large extent versus let's say another Asian doctor shares that background with the patient. I've worked with (not shadowed, WORKED) with physicians in a community that is incredibly diverse. I don't recall a patient feeling uncomfortable because of a physician's race, but hey, I live in California, which is probably a bubble. (<-- if your next comment is, well I don't live in multiculturally diverse states like Cali, NY, Washington, etc. touche, I probably lost that argument in your state :laugh:)

Let's not reduce AA, its flaws, and its merits to a simple equation, because it isn't. Just because AA isn't perfect doesn't mean we can't improve it. That kind of thinking gives AA opponents greater strength. These kinds of programs REQUIRE transparency. I am not against AA. And "small" advantage is subjective; I would argue AA provides a "large" advantage based on numbers and statistics in California.

If all applicants who benefit from AA (doesn't matter what ethnicity) were to guarantee service in under-served communities, I would have NO problem with it. If all stats and activities of applicants of AA were readily available to the public (anonymously of course), the public wouldn't have reason to worry.

My 2 centz...

*EDIT: I agree with your last sentence, however. Diversity does improve team-based capabilities, but again, diversity is not limited to the shade of a person's skin.
Click to expand...

Just to let you know, I never mentioned skin color, I said background (which includes a vast array of things, many of which fall into a description of URM). You, while arguing against my point, were arguing my point.
 
Acoustic said:
Just to let you know, I never mentioned skin color, I said background (which includes a vast array of things, many of which fall into a description of URM). You, while arguing against my point, were arguing my point.
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...URM refers to racial minorities, and I hope you're not denying the existence of a colored system that describes underrepresented racial minorities (I don't like it, but it's still there). They kinda go hand in hand. My intention was to present the issue fairly, so I argued for and against. I'm not against AA by race, just policies implemented poorly and lacking in transparency. That "background/vast array of things" is shared by all people.

*EDIT: I'd like to note that URM stands for under-represented in medicine, which is not a purely racial categorization. Does it often refer to underrepresented racial groups? In discussions, I'd say yes, thus why it's been a commonly accepted connection in many, many past StudentDoctor threads (remember the "I am/am not URM" statements) and even here. The race aspect makes for fiery debate, unlike accepting applicants regardless of race from disadvantaged socioeconomic backgrounds. Just wanted to make that clear. Thanks to Acoustic for bringing the possibility of confusion to my attention.

To be relevant to this link, I'm looking forward to my MSU-CHM interview. I love their philosophy and effective integration of different course materials. I wonder how students perform on their boards.
 
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Hold until February......Email at 10AM this morning
 
Nothing but bad news so far! 🙁 Anxiously awaiting an interview somewhere...
 
put on hold til february ... is this basically a rejection?
 
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