2012-2013 University of Central Florida Application Thread

[DAPI]

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REL,

Our lab submitted a manuscript today which I have authorship on. I'm curious if I should send this as an update before my interview on Friday (3/8) or bring the abstract or something to my interview.

If you could let me know what's best that would be great!

 

[cas312]

So the wait-list as a whole is updated on a 4-5 week basis, or is it 4-5 weeks for each individual student based on when they got their initial call?

Thanks!

Everyone as a whole receives an email every 4-6 weeks.

 

[REL]

REL,

Our lab submitted a manuscript today which I have authorship on. I'm curious if I should send this as an update before my interview on Friday (3/8) or bring the abstract or something to my interview.

If you could let me know what's best that would be great!

Send in the abstract when you are ready. If sent now it will probably be in your file early enough for the interviewers to know about it.

 

[REL]

Everyone as a whole receives an email every 4-6 weeks.

Pretty much true, except that if you were called in the last week or two you would probably not get an update since our discussion was so recent. In this case your first 4-6 week update would probably be in early April.

 

[premed529]

Interview Invite for March 8. Super excited!!

 

[knights2010]

Since ucf is overbooking this year, does anyone know whether it would have an effect on the number accepted from the waitlist?

 

[dandelion88]

Probably on Wednesday after the next committee meeting. I think we are currently at the 4-5 week point since the last update.

Hi Rel,
Have you started calling applicants with an update, or should we expect to hear from you next week instead?

Thanks!

 

[REL]

No more than 2 pgs single spaced.

Intended to get something out on Wednesday, have been home sick, hopefully get something out soonest.

 

[Mcatter]

Intended to get something out on Wednesday, have been home sick, hopefully get something out soonest.

Feel better!

 

[REL]

Feel better!

Do thank you. Updates done.

 

[amdr]

Thanks so much for the updates, REL! Such a great process.

 

[Mcatter]

@ REL: Do you get the sense that you will make it through the entire upper 2/3 this cycle? Or is just a wait and see until school starts?

Thanks for being so transparent in this process. It makes my/our life much more comfortable!

 

[REL]

@ REL: Do you get the sense that you will make it through the entire upper 2/3 this cycle? Or is just a wait and see until school starts?

Thanks for being so transparent in this process. It makes my/our life much more comfortable!

I would suspect definitely upper 1/3, probably upper 1/2, after that it gets less predictable.

 

[Mcatter]

I would suspect definitely upper 1/3, probably upper 1/2, after that it gets less predictable.

Thank you!

 

[jcaptian]

Sadly rejected today. 🙁 I got as close as you can get to receiving an interview I guess. Thank you Rel for your honesty, transparency, and willingness to answer our questions as well as keep us updated. Best of luck to all of you future UCFCOM students 🙂

 

[Jcaravag]

Hi REL,

I was just wondering if you know when accepted students should expect to receive Financial Reward Letters?

Thanks in advance!

 

[REL]

Hi REL,

I was just wondering if you know when accepted students should expect to receive Financial Reward Letters?

Thanks in advance!

Probably in about 2 weeks or so....

 

[AppleBeater]

Rel,

Firstly I'd like to echo everybody else and thank you for making this application so easy to follow, even when you're feeling under the weather (im glad you're feeling better!).

Secondly, do you have an idea of about how many more out of state kids you may accept? Thank you 🙂

 

[REL]

Rel,

Firstly I'd like to echo everybody else and thank you for making this application so easy to follow, even when you're feeling under the weather (im glad you're feeling better!).

Secondly, do you have an idea of about how many more out of state kids you may accept? Thank you 🙂

I am better thank you! With three committee meetings left I would guess the answer to that would be in the 6-9 range, it is difficult to know right now.

 

[REL]

So I am struggling with something and would like some feedback. I have witnessed that LOI's are often invalid based on my past experiences with them. On the other hand, I would dearly like to know about those who are truly desirous of being at UCF COM above their other acceptance opportunities that they will have. So many applicants leave the interview day using the terms "blown away" by the students, attitudes, environment, achievements, visions and goals, building med city, etc., that I may soften my stance. Why should I change my mind and try LOI's again?

 

[FijiGNR89]

So I am struggling with something and would like some feedback. I have witnessed that LOI's are often invalid based on my past experiences with them. On the other hand, I would dearly like to know about those who are truly desirous of being at UCF COM above their other acceptance opportunities that they will have. So many applicants leave the interview day using the terms "blown away" by the students, attitudes, environment, achievements, visions and goals, building med city, etc., that I may soften my stance. Why should I change my mind and try LOI's again?

I'm not sure that you really should soften your stance, honestly. I think LOI's are something that should be taken seriously, but frankly they are abused. It's disingenuous for an applicant to write more than one school an LOI, but there is no system in place to make sure they don't. With that in mind, I think it's good that people like you are skeptical. I think the way to sift through them and find the genuine ones is to look for the letters with specifics. Like you said, ones that say vague good things like they loved the students, the attitude, environment, etc.... you can find generic good things like that anywhere. That one is probably a student just desperately looking for an acceptance. The students who give specifics - i.e., people they met at UCF, particular aspects unique to the UCFCOM program, certain opportunities available Orlando that aren't elsewhere, reasons to live in Orlando rather than anywhere else - those are the ones who really want UCFCOM.

I say maintain the skepticism because when you really see one who wants to be at UCFCOM, then you'll know it!

 

[AppleBeater]

So I am struggling with something and would like some feedback. I have witnessed that LOI's are often invalid based on my past experiences with them. On the other hand, I would dearly like to know about those who are truly desirous of being at UCF COM above their other acceptance opportunities that they will have. So many applicants leave the interview day using the terms "blown away" by the students, attitudes, environment, achievements, visions and goals, building med city, etc., that I may soften my stance. Why should I change my mind and try LOI's again?

I'm not sure that you really should soften your stance, honestly. I think LOI's are something that should be taken seriously, but frankly they are abused. It's disingenuous for an applicant to write more than one school an LOI, but there is no system in place to make sure they don't. With that in mind, I think it's good that people like you are skeptical. I think the way to sift through them and find the genuine ones is to look for the letters with specifics. Like you said, ones that say vague good things like they loved the students, the attitude, environment, etc.... you can find generic good things like that anywhere. That one is probably a student just desperately looking for an acceptance. The students who give specifics - i.e., people they met at UCF, particular aspects unique to the UCFCOM program, certain opportunities available Orlando that aren't elsewhere, reasons to live in Orlando rather than anywhere else - those are the ones who really want UCFCOM.

I say maintain the skepticism because when you really see one who wants to be at UCFCOM, then you'll know it!

I actually couldn't agree with Fiji anymore. I feel like too many people use the LOIs as a "second secondary" and try to shoehorn in any med school acceptance as opposed to genuinely telling a school why that school is right for them. This might sound unfair to the applicants who really do want to go to a particular school and explain that to the AdCom, but I feel like the secondaries and the interviews, especially for UCF, gave ample opportunities to explain why one belongs at that school.

I am better thank you! With three committee meetings left I would guess the answer to that would be in the 6-9 range, it is difficult to know right now.

Thank you for letting us know!

 

[Mcatter]

So I am struggling with something and would like some feedback. I have witnessed that LOI's are often invalid based on my past experiences with them. On the other hand, I would dearly like to know about those who are truly desirous of being at UCF COM above their other acceptance opportunities that they will have. So many applicants leave the interview day using the terms "blown away" by the students, attitudes, environment, achievements, visions and goals, building med city, etc., that I may soften my stance. Why should I change my mind and try LOI's again?

I think the LOI gives the school another chance to see:

1) Which applicants actually perceived a good fit on interview day, as opposed to which applicants just want an acceptance.

2) Which applicants are motivated enough to help themselves out by taking the "unnecessary" step of writing an LOI.

If I were an admissions committee, trying to decide between waitlisted applicants, I would want to know which ones gave up easily and never contacted the school again, and which ones took time to reflect on why they were waitlisted and made an effort to improve their standing.

I just wrote an LOI for a school I am waitlisted to, and I think the content of my letter should help the school understand that that my interview day experience was an important part of my decision to attend that school.

Perhaps AMCAS can create an LOI system where applicants can only submit one letter to one school in order to give the letter extra weight. I only wrote one to one school because I wouldn't compromise my integrity by writing two, but obviously the school cannot know that.

 

[IonClaws]

So I am struggling with something and would like some feedback. I have witnessed that LOI's are often invalid based on my past experiences with them. On the other hand, I would dearly like to know about those who are truly desirous of being at UCF COM above their other acceptance opportunities that they will have. So many applicants leave the interview day using the terms "blown away" by the students, attitudes, environment, achievements, visions and goals, building med city, etc., that I may soften my stance. Why should I change my mind and try LOI's again?

REL -

I would have to agree with Fiji on this issue.

Given the lack of a standardized system through which an applicant can only submit Letters of Interest to a single school, I don't think you should soften your stance.

Long story short - there's no telling whether a LOI is genuine or just one of many LOI's an applicant is sending in a scramble to gain an acceptance.

 

[imnamerican]

I completely understand being burned by misguided Letters of Intent, but I'm not entirely sure (even from the perspective of the school) I see the negative in allowing multiple Letters of Interest. If treated as just a means of distinguishing otherwise "equal" candidates, I think LOInterest are actually useful to see how candidates characterize their interest post-interview. As an introvert, I always find it really helpful for the opportunity to reflect on what I experienced during a really great interview for a few days and put those thoughts into well-considered words that could be meaningful to an admissions committee. I'm quite sure many other applicants feel the same way.

For applicants who actually aren't that interested, it might actually be easy sniff out their apathy in a poorly worded LOI, so you can also think of it as a tool to figure out who NOT to select for admission, as well. Letters of Intent can be dodgy, so I can understand keeping your hard stance on them, but Letters of Interest, if properly interpreted, can provide some added value to the process for both parties.

 

[deleted480308]

I think it also might come down to what is actually said in the letters (I'm starting my application this summer). If a followup letter said, "I enjoyed the privilege to interview and would be honored to attend your school". That could be true of every school in the country and I view that more as a thank you note than a letter of intent. If I said (which I will) "Orlando has been my home since I was five and contains my entire social support structure. My wife has a succesful job here and my children have all of their cousins and grandparents living here in town. Ucf has a stellar reputation and I would gladly turn down all other schools to attend here. If you accept me, I will matriculate." That, to me, is a letter of intent.

 

[type12]

So I am struggling with something and would like some feedback. I have witnessed that LOI's are often invalid based on my past experiences with them. On the other hand, I would dearly like to know about those who are truly desirous of being at UCF COM above their other acceptance opportunities that they will have. So many applicants leave the interview day using the terms "blown away" by the students, attitudes, environment, achievements, visions and goals, building med city, etc., that I may soften my stance. Why should I change my mind and try LOI's again?

LOI writer here, and I hate to say it, but my LOI was disingenuous (don't worry, didn't get in this cycle). While I would have certainly honored my LOI and had no doubt I would have enjoyed my time at the school, could I say with certainty it was my first choice? No. Rather, the LOI was the result of hedging my bets and probabilities, alongside a very subjective "is this school JUST okay?" question. The truth of it is, I want to be a doctor more than proudly carry the name of a school behind me (which I would also love to do, but care infinitely less about). The LOI was a means to that end. It was tailored and written to say the "awesome" things about the school and specific details for appearing genuine, but the reasons, though honest, were not sufficient to be a true first choice.

Call me a jerk (for either the following or above), but the information presented to me is just insufficient for such a conclusion/decision. No matter what my "1st" choice for med school would really be, nothing replaces first-hand experiences from reliable sources. While there's no shortage of first-hand experience, I don't know those people. I need to be aware of people's perceptions, biases, etc., so I can adjust appropriately. What few people I know and can do this with provide a small sample of schools (not to mention too small a sample size per school).

It's not my intent to come off as geeky/scientific *******. I have been blown away by things before, but I always remind myself to temper those feelings and make a more grounded decision in the end. I've been working in the business side of medicine while I apply, so maybe that's where this thinking comes from: wow the client, but don't buy your own BS. I know med schools are not a business out for your money, but I'm just primed to think like that nowadays.

Also, I'm a very candid and honest person, lol. So, hope that helps.

 

[tygerguy]

So I am struggling with something and would like some feedback. I have witnessed that LOI's are often invalid based on my past experiences with them. On the other hand, I would dearly like to know about those who are truly desirous of being at UCF COM above their other acceptance opportunities that they will have. So many applicants leave the interview day using the terms "blown away" by the students, attitudes, environment, achievements, visions and goals, building med city, etc., that I may soften my stance. Why should I change my mind and try LOI's again?

I do not think you should accept LOI's. First of all, I agree with all of the above opinion that LOI's cannot be validated for authenticity. Secondly, as a applicant who currently has 4 rejection/no II, 1 waitlist position (at the bottom third, which for all intents and purposes a rejection), one additional wait list position (unknown position), I am exhausted, frustrated, and at times emotional. I began this application over 10 months ago and it has provided nothing. Of all people, I SHOULD be the one begging for acceptance, but I'm not. I believe that LOI's are just that - documents of begging. I think remaining stoic and patient throughout this process is the best way to display maturity. I like to think (whether or not anyone else agrees) that I have more self control than that. It's life. I have the rest of my life to work, and I'll get in at some point.

Furthermore, in the case of UCF, the admissions committee has already assigned me a score and will no longer accept updates. This was very clear on my interview day. A LOI will not change that score. By submitting one I'm either showing that I'm dense or arrogant.

If I ever found out that a program admitted another student over me just because of a pleading LOI instead of credentials, I'd be furious and never reapply there.

I think the best thing to do for anyone in this situation is to bow out gracefully and either apply to the program after AT LEAST A COUPLE more application cycles, or to sneak away and hope the program forgets about you and your inadequacies incase you want to return for residency, etc.

 

[type12]

tygerguy, agree with what you said 100%, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It may not be fair (to be fair, the admissions process isn't a perfect Athenian scale already), but I think that's what LOIs are like.

 

[shocolatemilk]

Is there a difference between "overbooking" and admitting students?

 

[deleted480308]

tygerguy, agree with what you said 100%, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It may not be fair (to be fair, the admissions process isn't a perfect Athenian scale already), but I think that's what LOIs are like.

As the guy who was told, both by the hospital and the em physicians group that if I didn't have a personal contact for an observership sponsor that I would never observe there.....and the guy who is typing this on the way to pick up my badge to do that very observation....I can verify that polite yet stubbornly persistant and begging wheels do indeed get greased

 

[deleted480308]

I do not think you should accept LOI's. First of all, I agree with all of the above opinion that LOI's cannot be validated for authenticity. Secondly, as a applicant who currently has 4 rejection/no II, 1 waitlist position (at the bottom third, which for all intents and purposes a rejection), one additional wait list position (unknown position), I am exhausted, frustrated, and at times emotional. I began this application over 10 months ago and it has provided nothing. Of all people, I SHOULD be the one begging for acceptance, but I'm not. I believe that LOI's are just that - documents of begging. I think remaining stoic and patient throughout this process is the best way to display maturity. I like to think (whether or not anyone else agrees) that I have more self control than that. It's life. I have the rest of my life to work, and I'll get in at some point.

Furthermore, in the case of UCF, the admissions committee has already assigned me a score and will no longer accept updates. This was very clear on my interview day. A LOI will not change that score. By submitting one I'm either showing that I'm dense or arrogant.

If I ever found out that a program admitted another student over me just because of a pleading LOI instead of credentials, I'd be furious and never reapply there.

I think the best thing to do for anyone in this situation is to bow out gracefully and either apply to the program after AT LEAST A COUPLE more application cycles, or to sneak away and hope the program forgets about you and your inadequacies incase you want to return for residency, etc.

If titling my letter "document of begging" would get me in, I would do it without hesitation. That is not a joke.

 

[IonClaws]

Is there a difference between "overbooking" and admitting students?

"Overbooking" means "over-admitting;" admitting more students than places in the class.

 

[Mcatter]

If titling my letter "document of begging" would get me in, I would do it without hesitation. That is not a joke.

+1. At the end of the day, no matter what your credentials are my view is you have to really want to be a physician in order to build a satisfied and successful career. Remaining stoic and wondering why your superior credentials aren't worth more to a school than an applicant that displays passion and motivation is not a great start.

 

[IonClaws]

tygerguy, agree with what you said 100%, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It may not be fair (to be fair, the admissions process isn't a perfect Athenian scale already), but I think that's what LOIs are like.

Yeah, but if you keep getting the same squeaks year after year, you tend to ignore them . . . in the case of LOI's, "the boy who cried wolf" is a more accurate analogy.

+1. At the end of the day, no matter what your credentials are my view is you have to really want to be a physician in order to build a satisfied and successful career. Remaining stoic and wondering why your superior credentials aren't worth more to a school than an applicant that displays passion and motivation is not a great start.

As far as showing passion and motivation, that's best addressed with the following:

I actually couldn't agree with Fiji anymore. I feel like too many people use the LOIs as a "second secondary" and try to shoehorn in any med school acceptance as opposed to genuinely telling a school why that school is right for them. This might sound unfair to the applicants who really do want to go to a particular school and explain that to the AdCom, but I feel like the secondaries and the interviews, especially for UCF, gave ample opportunities to explain why one belongs at that school

There are many opportunities to show passion and motivation, from the AMCAS Most Meaningful activities/personal statement to the interview. If one can genuinely and convincingly demonstrate these qualities to any admissions committee, there wouldn't be a need for any LOI's.

 

[imnamerican]

Yeah, but if you keep getting the same squeaks year after year, you tend to ignore them . . . in the case of LOI's, "the boy who cried wolf" is a more accurate analogy.

A bit overly cynical, IMO. I'm curious to see some data as to what percentage of waitlisted/continued students at a given school send in LOI's to determine how prevalent/abused they really are.

There are many opportunities to show passion and motivation, from the AMCAS Most Meaningful activities/personal statement to the interview. If one can genuinely and convincingly demonstrate these qualities to any admissions committee, there wouldn't be a need for any LOI's.

There's one instance this cycle where I applied to a school out of just moderate curiosity. Post-interview, I was pretty much floored by pretty much everything I saw. It was a very sudden/unexpected feeling, so was only after the interview day that I could take some time and put together my thoughts into coherent words. It's now among my top choices (over some schools with a significantly higher "ranking"), and I'm very grateful that the school accepted a LOInterest so I had a way to express how the interview day completely changed my perspective.

 

[Mcatter]

"There are many opportunities to show passion and motivation, from the AMCAS Most Meaningful activities/personal statement to the interview. If one can genuinely and convincingly demonstrate these qualities to any admissions committee, there wouldn't be a need for any LOI's.[/QUOTE]"

True, but there is also a difference between stating that you are passionate and and motivated and actually demonstrating it. I think applicants that take the time to write a LOI are showing their motivation and perseverance in a tangible way, which should add value to an application.

 

[shocolatemilk]

"Overbooking" means "over-admitting;" admitting more students than places in the class.

Thanks for the response.

But I was under the impression that most schools, including UCF, accept about double the number of seats available for the entering class.

 

[Mcatter]

Thanks for the response.

But I was under the impression that most schools, including UCF, accept about double the number of seats available for the entering class.

Pretty sure that number is after the cycle is all said and done and the class is seated. I don't know how much schools typically overbook, but I just spoke to a school who said they've given out 170 seats for their 130 +/- class.

 

[IonClaws]

Thanks for the response.

But I was under the impression that most schools, including UCF, accept about double the number of seats available for the entering class.

From what I've heard, most schools do accept 2-3 times the number of students for whom they have seats. This does not appear to be the case for UCF; from REL:

Most new schools choose to not "over-book" their class due to their own caution. There is no LCME rule prohibiting accepting more than you have seats for early in the process. There would be a problem with the LCME if you started class with more than you have seats for. I SUSPECT that all MD programs in the state are over-booking, including FAU. This will be the first year that UCF will over-book.

And answering my question about the number of students by which they plan to overbook:

Probably about ~30, target is 150 for 120 seat class......not a huge amount.

 

[IonClaws]

A bit overly cynical, IMO. I'm curious to see some data as to what percentage of waitlisted/continued students at a given school send in LOI's to determine how prevalent/abused they really are.



There's one instance this cycle where I applied to a school out of just moderate curiosity. Post-interview, I was pretty much floored by pretty much everything I saw. It was a very sudden/unexpected feeling, so was only after the interview day that I could take some time and put together my thoughts into coherent words. It's now among my top choices (over some schools with a significantly higher "ranking"), and I'm very grateful that the school accepted a LOInterest so I had a way to express how the interview day completely changed my perspective.

This is an example of a good and genuine letter of interest. Unfortunately, there is no system in place to distinguish between your genuine letter and a letter from someone saying something similar but that has 5 other carbon copies sent to other schools. That's probably where most of the issues lie; it's like graduate school GPA's (often, but not necessarily always, inflated and therefore not comparable to undergraduate GPA's). Similarly, LOI's are "inflated" since applicants can send them en masse to many different schools, hence compromising the integrity of their contents.

True, but there is also a difference between stating that you are passionate and and motivated and actually demonstrating it. I think applicants that take the time to write a LOI are showing their motivation and perseverance in a tangible way, which should add value to an application.

There are many ways to demonstrate motivation and passion pre-post-interview; the depth (i.e. time) and breadth of activities described in AMCAS, how well and passionately written the Most Meaningful activities essays are along with tone and other non-verbal communication given at the interview, are ways to demonstrate these qualities. Really, it's half (?) of communication that's non-verbal (at least), hence the opportunities to demonstrate said qualities.

I can understand having new information post-interview (impressions of school, etc.), but other than that, there's nothing in a LOI that isn't a reiteration of something for which opportunities already exist.

 

[imnamerican]

This is an example of a good and genuine letter of interest. Unfortunately, there is no system in place to distinguish between your genuine letter and a letter from someone saying something similar but that has 5 other carbon copies sent to other schools. That's probably where most of the issues lie; it's like graduate school GPA's (often, but not necessarily always, inflated and therefore not comparable to undergraduate GPA's). Similarly, LOI's are "inflated" since applicants can send them en masse to many different schools, hence compromising the integrity of their contents.

Sure, and this crossed my mind during the writing process of my LOI as to whether or not it would be taken seriously. That said, in the same way that mom's home cooking always tastes better than anything else, I maintain that it is still possible to distinguish between a well-written, genuine LOI and a mass-produced one. I made sure to include anecdotes and references that only I could possibly have as to why I felt the way I did. I think that's where the analogy with graduate GPA falls apart, as you have more creative flexibility in a LOI to set yourself apart from the crowd outside of just a number.

 

[tygerguy]

To me, this is see from an LOI,

Dear program,

You are indeed my top choice (I haven't gotten in anywhere else). It is really important for me to see patients (be an MD but not another patient-seeing professional) because of my drive to lead the decision-making aspects of treatment (make a lot more money than the other professionals). I cannot see myself working in any other capacity (making any lesser amount of money). This has been my drive since childhood (because my parents are wealthy and I need to maintain my standard of living). I really care about patients (money)...

I can go on and on. My point is, the people I hear fussing about not getting in and such are the people who think they way I illustrated above. For those of us that don't think that way. We're JUST FINE with the idea that we need to operate in another health care setting before trying again for the MD. You will make enough money to pay your bills and you will see those patients that you love... and your level of happiness will be high. We can always reapply. We have the rest of our lives to work. This is my plan.

In the words of Jason Mraz:

Well, open up your mind and see like me,
Open up your plans and damn you're free.

Maybe it's true. Maybe some programs do play into LOI's. I think they are fussy. Just because they're written professionally and modestly does not mean the underlying intention is likewise modest. You have a personal statement, a generally lengthy secondary, and 15 spaces to write stuff on your AMCAS. With between 3000 and 4000 applications that these admissions departments have to read, I don't see how there is time to read LOI's when you've already been given ample room to pour your heart out.

Do you all REALLY want the admissions process to be finalized based on who can kiss the most @$$?

I really wish you all good luck, seriously. But I also hope that we (at times, myself included) can curb these emotions and stop begging, calling the admissions office to see how many interview dates are left (how does that even help you?), etc. If it's what we really want, we will ALL get it... at some point 🙄

 

[FijiGNR89]

legit.

 

[type12]

tygerguy (and IonClaws), you're under the assumption that we wish it was this way. Do you REALLY want children starving in third-world countries? No, but that's the way it is. Likewise, we didn't create the admissions system (or all professional relationships for that matter), but that's how it is. You can phrase the "squeaky wheel" as "crying wolf," but that means you're also playing the "perception matters" game. What else is manipulating a family tragedy, twisting it into an "adversity" you "overcame," but marketing to medical school admissions? They aren't going to help your family, but the pandering is oh-so effective.

Admissions sees only the accolades and positives that applicants choose to share. It means everyone becomes very grey. The darker side of the applicants goes unnoticed. That's not how it should be, but that's how it is.

For example, I have one acquaintance who proudly told me his escapades with women after flaunting his doctor card. One night stands, cheating, false promises, you name it. The kicker was when a coworker doing the same psychiatry residency turned him down. He has an inferiority complex (I think?) and thinks he's ugly because of his lazy eye. He kept offering to drive her home, and she always declined. A few months later, she must have relented, and he took her to the most dangerous neighborhood in the bronx after midnight. I don't know why she didn't know what was up on the ride there (maybe she did? I dunno), but then he stopped and told her to get out. He started screaming and threatening her until she did ("It's my car, get the **** out!"). Then, before slamming the passenger door shut, he told her, "You shouldn't have said no." and drove away. He told me with such smug satisfaction I thought he was kidding, but then he showed me the "expression" she had on her face the next day on his cell phone, and I realized he wasn't making this up.

The above is an extreme example, and the admissions system works for the most part, but my point is, there are leaky holes in it.

I honestly don't know if LOIs should be considered or not, but in the professional world, putting yourself out there and taking risks is a must to get ahead. To me, LOIs fill that role (however poorly it may be). To me, the AMCAS is forced, structured, and an attempt to quantify all things. The LOI may be the only opportunity where there are no forced constraints or structure, but instead a fully qualitative value.

 

[greenjade]

I have never heard about LOI or knew about its importance. My pre-med advisor has never mentioned it to us, so is it fair to those who are unaware of its value? 🙁 Plus I don't want to pester the admissions office who are already flooded with emails.

 

[tygerguy]

Ok, so I've been playing devil's advocate with myself. Here's my idea of how LOI's could be a good thing...

If one were to take a screen shot of his or her AMCAS application where it displays all the schools to which they've applied, attach it to the email with the LOI, and send it to the target school with ALL other programs visibly CC'ed, I think that would prove its legitimacy.

 

[UCFKnight]

So I am struggling with something and would like some feedback. I have witnessed that LOI's are often invalid based on my past experiences with them. On the other hand, I would dearly like to know about those who are truly desirous of being at UCF COM above their other acceptance opportunities that they will have. So many applicants leave the interview day using the terms "blown away" by the students, attitudes, environment, achievements, visions and goals, building med city, etc., that I may soften my stance. Why should I change my mind and try LOI's again?

I can't speak for everyone, but my latest update/LOI following my 3/8 interview is completely sincere. This is my proof/reasoning:

I was accepted to FSU in December, and after some consideration I withdrew my applications from all other schools except a few state schools. I started figuring out housing and turned in all my forms to begin registration for FSU (I even got all sorts of FSU gear for Christmas due to my perceived decision). A couple weeks after my FSU acceptance, I received an II from USF, but I turned it down because I was so set on FSU. About a month later, I received the call from you to interview at UCF, and I took it without any hesitation (even though I was still mostly set on FSU). However, my mind completely flip-flopped after the interview day. I wrote in my update/LOI how cliche it must be at this point to say UCF is the perfect fit (even though it is truly how I feel). I even sent out an e-mail to the apartment complex I was planning on moving into saying I am not certain I am coming anymore pending the information I get from you March 27th. Although I didn't write about it in my update/LOI, I have many reasons why I want to go to UCF: I've lived in Orlando for the past few years doing my undergraduate, I work for FHO (one of the main teaching hospitals) and I love it, I am good friends with many of the MS1's right now, and I've seen the evolution of the COM up close from the very beginning. In hindsight, I probably should've included those. I just really want this update/LOI to be taken seriously because FSU starts May 28th, and I really don't want to lose out on the opportunity to attend UCF because I'm on the wait list. If I end up being on the bottom half of the top third or the middle third of the waitlist, how can I turn down my only other acceptance for something that is not an 100% sure thing? After being told acceptances continue into July, I am very worried that this may happen. That's it in a nutshell, and I'm sure I'm definitely not anonymous now.

All in all, I think the sincerity of LOIs is extremely relative, but I believe the later they are given in the process the more sincere they are (especially coming from those who already have strong ties to the school). At least that is definitely true in my case. I thought my interview season was over until I got the call from you in late February, but now it has become very interesting. Hope this helps 🙂

 

[UCFKnight]

To me, this is see from an LOI,

Dear program,

You are indeed my top choice (I haven't gotten in anywhere else). It is really important for me to see patients (be an MD but not another patient-seeing professional) because of my drive to lead the decision-making aspects of treatment (make a lot more money than the other professionals). I cannot see myself working in any other capacity (making any lesser amount of money). This has been my drive since childhood (because my parents are wealthy and I need to maintain my standard of living). I really care about patients (money)...

I can go on and on. My point is, the people I hear fussing about not getting in and such are the people who think they way I illustrated above. For those of us that don't think that way. We're JUST FINE with the idea that we need to operate in another health care setting before trying again for the MD. You will make enough money to pay your bills and you will see those patients that you love... and your level of happiness will be high. We can always reapply. We have the rest of our lives to work. This is my plan.

In the words of Jason Mraz:

Well, open up your mind and see like me,
Open up your plans and damn you're free.

Maybe it's true. Maybe some programs do play into LOI's. I think they are fussy. Just because they're written professionally and modestly does not mean the underlying intention is likewise modest. You have a personal statement, a generally lengthy secondary, and 15 spaces to write stuff on your AMCAS. With between 3000 and 4000 applications that these admissions departments have to read, I don't see how there is time to read LOI's when you've already been given ample room to pour your heart out.

Do you all REALLY want the admissions process to be finalized based on who can kiss the most @$$?

I really wish you all good luck, seriously. But I also hope that we (at times, myself included) can curb these emotions and stop begging, calling the admissions office to see how many interview dates are left (how does that even help you?), etc. If it's what we really want, we will ALL get it... at some point 🙄

Although you are most definitely correct about many LOIs, I still think it is all relative. Read my post from above, and you will know what I mean.

 

[IonClaws]

Sure, and this crossed my mind during the writing process of my LOI as to whether or not it would be taken seriously. That said, in the same way that mom's home cooking always tastes better than anything else, I maintain that it is still possible to distinguish between a well-written, genuine LOI and a mass-produced one. I made sure to include anecdotes and references that only I could possibly have as to why I felt the way I did. I think that's where the analogy with graduate GPA falls apart, as you have more creative flexibility in a LOI to set yourself apart from the crowd outside of just a number.

I think I miscommunicated in my last post when I used the term "carbon copy" . . .

While this is definitely a step above a generic letter with nothing tied to the school and without personal flair, who's to say you haven't sent other letters to schools with personal flair and specifics about those schools? It's possible to highlight specific aspects of multiple schools and create that "genuine" feel for each of them while not necessarily having the same interest in matriculating at all of them.

Ok, so I've been playing devil's advocate with myself. Here's my idea of how LOI's could be a good thing...

If one were to take a screen shot of his or her AMCAS application where it displays all the schools to which they've applied, attach it to the email with the LOI, and send it to the target school with ALL other programs visibly CC'ed, I think that would prove its legitimacy.

Probably the best solution I've heard of in light of the lack of a standardized system . . .