2018-2019 Waitlist Support Thread

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Redfox45 said:
That's the thing though. Waitlisted schools will know EXACTLY which school you've selected "Plan to Enroll" to starting April 30.
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I apologize for saying you were overthinking it. Seems like this whole thing was way more complicated than I thought.

What are the relative rankings of the school where you have an acceptance right now vs the school you want to get off the waitlist from?

Also, it seems like a couple people in a different thread said that they contacted AMCAS and they said that WL schools cannot see PTE. But this seems to contradict what’s on the AMCAS website.
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Redfox45 said:
That's the thing though. Waitlisted schools will know EXACTLY which school you've selected "Plan to Enroll" to starting April 30.
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I don’t think this is true. They will get your name, just not the school you selected. This info only becomes available after matriculation for all schools across the country
 
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futuredoc0307 said:
I don’t think this is true. They will get your name, just not the school you selected. This info only becomes available after matriculation for all schools across the country
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This is the direct quote off the AAMC website for now. Sounds like they have told applicants who have reached out the opposite for waitlisted applicants.

Beginning April 30, “Medical schools can run detailed reports to identify their accepted and alternate-list applicants who have selected “Plan to Enroll” or “Commit to Enroll” at their school versus another school.”
 
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Redfox45 said:
This is the direct quote off the AAMC website for now. Sounds like they have told applicants who have reached out the opposite for waitlisted applicants.

Beginning April 30, “Medical schools can run detailed reports to identify their accepted and alternate-list applicants who have selected “Plan to Enroll” or “Commit to Enroll” at their school versus another school.”
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so, basically, if i am waitlisted in a school, they can see where i am accepted?
 
Redfox45 said:
This is the direct quote off the AAMC website for now. Sounds like they have told applicants who have reached out the opposite for waitlisted applicants.

Beginning April 30, “Medical schools can run detailed reports to identify their accepted and alternate-list applicants who have selected “Plan to Enroll” or “Commit to Enroll” at their school versus another school.”
Click to expand...

I think the schools won’t be able to see which school you PTE at unless it is their own. I believe it will just say something like

Redfox45 has planned/committed to enroll at your institution

Redfox45 has planned/committed to enroll at another institution
 
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red_tangoes said:
I think the schools won’t be able to see which school you PTE at unless it is their own. I believe it will just say something like

Redfox45 has planned/committed to enroll at your institution

Redfox45 has planned/committed to enroll at another institution
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I think I am going to call Monday to get a straight answer. Multiple people have contacted them and been told that schools you are on the WL at cannot see your PTE/CTE info.
 
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Best of all, go read the AAMC information on the CYMS tool. Most of the questions y'all are asking are covered there.
It's up to you to look up the expectations of dates of commitment to EACH of your A or WL schools.
It's up to you to handle this in an adult and professional manner. Expectations of Professionalism

General details on CYMS tool: Choose Your Medical School Tool

For even more, read the exhaustive (and exhausting??) discussion of this on another thread. Lots of speculation there by applicants but some good answers by Adcoms like gonnif, Med Ed, Goro, gyngyn. Explain New Traffic Rules thread
 
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wysdoc said:
Best of all, go read the AAMC information on the CYMS tool. Most of the questions y'all are asking are covered there.
It's up to you to look up the expectations of dates of commitment to EACH of your A or WL schools.
It's up to you to handle this in an adult and professional manner. https://students-residents.aamc.org...ations-professionalism-during-medical-school/

students-residents.aamc.org

AMCAS® Choose Your Medical School Tool

The AAMC American Medical College Application Service® (AMCAS®) created this tool to support medical schools’ enrollment management processes and help applicants communicate their intentions about which medical schools they plan to attend. Schools will only be able to access information about...
students-residents.aamc.org students-residents.aamc.org
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Right, except the problem is that AAMC reps are telling applicants something different than what is on the site. Like I get that the site says one thing, but when multiple agents are telling applicants something different, then we need to clear it up.
 
It’s best to just call the schools. My acceptance has something in their portal where you put your decision. You don’t need to chance AMCAS but you have to put your decision in the school portal. So the school knows I still want to be considered but all of my WL will see I haven’t chosen “plan to enroll” anywhere. When I was hearing about this option, it made it sound like they are trying to give more spots to people with no acceptances. Helps the schools yield and also I think it will help students from getting their only acceptance and being super excited then realizing they have to move across the country in 2 days.
 
Redfox45 said:
So it seems declining to use the "Plan to Enroll" option after April 30 can help or hurt you. If you don't designate as school as Plan to Enroll, schools may think you have zero acceptances and see you as undesirable. Or schools may be more willing to admit applicants that haven't designated a school as Plan to Enroll because they may be more likely to attend if accepted.

Has anyone heard from actual admissions staff about how to best use "Plan to Enroll"?
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I don't think this is the case. I'll help admissions officers out. I know I pointed out some anxious worries in this thread before but I revisited that thought after some encouraging words here. I thought about things more logically and objectively rather than from my own point of view. From what I know, the report from PTE apparently isn't very informative or reliable for admissions. I don't really expect much, if anything, about PTE to affect admissions decisions.
 
But if you don't PTE to any school, wouldn't that then tell the schools that you aren't planning to go to them and open up your spot for them to give to someone else?
 
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CHSNY said:
But if you don't PTE to any school, wouldn't that then tell the schools that you aren't planning to go to them and open up your spot for them to give to someone else?
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No. The tool is unreliable because PTE is non-binding. CTE is more binding per AAMC guidelines. PTE is simply a "this is where I think I'll go at this moment. I'm open to other offers and may attend elsewhere depending on finances/school offers". From an adcom perspective, PTE says nothing about a student attending or not attending their school.
 
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CHSNY said:
But if you don't PTE to any school, wouldn't that then tell the schools that you aren't planning to go to them and open up your spot for them to give to someone else?
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Hirro said:
No. The tool is unreliable because PTE is non-binding. CTE is more binding per AAMC guidelines. PTE is simply a "this is where I think I'll go at this moment. I'm open to other offers and may attend elsewhere depending on finances/school offers". From an adcom perspective, PTE says nothing about a student attending or not attending their school.
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Additionally, you cannot PTE at a school you're WLed at. So if you don't have anything set as PTE, the WL schools would be more likely to think you are waiting to hear back from them if anything. But while I agree with @Hirro that rationally, adcoms at schools you are WLed at probably wouldn't put too much stock into the PTE as it is non-binding and only available for schools you've been accepted to; however, I have a feeling schools will be trying to use any info they can to figure out who is likely to go to their school. That said, I'm not an adcom.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
But while I agree with @Hirro that rationally, adcoms at schools you are WLed at probably wouldn't put too much stock into the PTE as it is non-binding and only available for schools you've been accepted to; however, I have a feeling schools will be trying to use any info they can to figure out who is likely to go to their school. That said, I'm not an adcom.
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I wish this was true. I've tried to send an LOI to a school I'm waitlisted at but, after speaking with admissions directly, they've told me they don't accept LOI's under any circumstances. Each school probably varies on this.

It's weird because I assumed every school would welcome any information applicants might have to offer but perhaps they've become jaded or burned by past applicants and now they only use the concrete information they have.
 
Hirro said:
No. The tool is unreliable because PTE is non-binding. CTE is more binding per AAMC guidelines. PTE is simply a "this is where I think I'll go at this moment. I'm open to other offers and may attend elsewhere depending on finances/school offers". From an adcom perspective, PTE says nothing about a student attending or not attending their school.
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Right I agree, I was just saying that per the AMCAS "rules," though I think you have to narrow down your acceptances to one and then either PTE or CTE to that one on the 30th. And I think if you don't select either, then that school (the one where you have an acceptance) would think you aren't going and give that a acceptance to someone else.
 
CHSNY said:
Right I agree, I was just saying that per the AMCAS "rules," though I think you have to narrow down your acceptances to one and then either PTE or CTE to that one on the 30th. And I think if you don't select either, then that school (the one where you have an acceptance) would think you aren't going and give that a acceptance to someone else.
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Since PTE says nothing about a student attending or not attending the school, schools will not take action based on that. Some schools do enforce their acceptees to PTE by April 30th (these schools might make offers to waitlistees because of this) but many don't.
 
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This process had me meditating on some of the most random things in life. it's a very crazy thing that we are out here extremely impatient for the next few days to pass knowing that with every passing day, we have one less to live. I feel that once we reach the part in our lives where we can't go to the bathroom without a walker we will think back and feel utter foolishness. The relative significance of time to different people is mind boggling; there are ones out there with terminal illnesses that to them the next few days are what defines their future lifetime, but to us, just an annoyance that is in the way of our acceptance. edit: with that being said, ten more fricken days i can't wait
 
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futuredoc0307 said:
This process had me meditating on some of the most random things in life. it's a very crazy thing that we are out here extremely impatient for the next few days to pass knowing that with every passing day, we have one less to live. I feel that once we reach the part in our lives where we can't go to the bathroom without a walker we will think back and feel utter foolishness. The relative significance of time to different people is mind boggling; there are ones out there with terminal illnesses that to them the next few days are what defines their future lifetime, but to us, just an annoyance that is in the way of our acceptance.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this.
 
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Hirro said:
I wish this was true. I've tried to send an LOI to a school I'm waitlisted at but, after speaking with admissions directly, they've told me they don't accept LOI's under any circumstances. Each school probably varies on this.

It's weird because I assumed every school would welcome any information applicants might have to offer but perhaps they've become jaded or burned by past applicants and now they only use the concrete information they have.
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That doesn't really refute what I said. Some schools just have certain policies. That doesn't mean they aren't going to be looking at the PTE info to see who is or is not planning on enrolling elsewhere. It also doesn't mean they will. The truth is we just don't know.
 
AAMC gave me a good idea for a game show "CHOOSE YOUR MEDICAL SCHOOL!"

Three actors (applicants) appear on the stage to meet 3 medical school adcom reps (contestants) from equal tiers/ranking but with varying profiles/missions/values/opportunities.

Actors are motivated to maximize acceptances but are rewarded for acceptance at their top choice (randomized, hidden, actors get 1-2 extra pieces of information on their top choice school)

The adcoms get rewarded ($$$) if they maximize their yield by guessing who is and who is not coming to their school.

Round 1:

We watch adcoms interview the applicants individually, separate from everyone else, and we get to watch the actors woo the adcoms. It is entertaining because we see actors present themselves schizophrenically with stories to fit the school's profile. Contestants aim to find which actor seemed most knowledgeable (most likely to be top choice applicant)

After all the interviews, adcoms assign A or WL to applicants in whatever manner they think to maximize their yield.

Round 2:

Applicants standing behind their podium will now be able to choose to press a button to privately notify schools of their "Plan to Enroll."

Schools will see if an applicant is "PTE" at their school (only if they accepted him/her correctly in round 1)

They can also see if an accepted applicant chose to "PTE" for another school, but they will not know which one.

They will also see if an applicant has no acceptances because of no "PTE" designated.

Actors may also privately send one letter of interest (Love letter) to contestants in this time if they were not accepted to their top choice but to one school they think are most likely to accept him (they are motivated to maximize acceptances)

Adcoms / contestants will now finalize their A/WL list based on the CYMS tool and their trust levels with the applicant.

They may find themselves in a pickle, accepting an applicant that PTE to another school and receiving LoI's from their WL applicants.

They may want to accept the no-acceptance applicant to maximize their yield but other schools may do the same and they don't know his top choice.

Smart contestants will under-accept in Round 1 waiting for further imperfect information from the CYMS tool but they will get less information in round 2 (This person may have PTE to your school if you accepted him) and this may change the motivation of applicants using the CYMS/LoI system to maximize their own yield.

Final reveal

Applicants "CTE" to the highest assigned rank school they were accepted to.

Acceptance/Matriculation +$20k, Acceptance/Non-Matriculation -$20k, WL/Acceptance/Matriculation +$15k, WL/Acceptance/Non-matriculation -$15k

-----

Yes, this is a tumultuous game of treachery, trickery, and manipulation but doesn't even come close to the zany process that is real life medical school admissions.

Better luck next time Adcoms as we "Choose Your Medical School!!!!!"
 
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1nside said:
AAMC gave me a good idea for a game show "CHOOSE YOUR MEDICAL SCHOOL!"

Three actors (applicants) appear on the stage to meet 3 medical school adcom reps (contestants) from equal tiers/ranking but with varying profiles/missions/values/opportunities.

Actors are motivated to maximize acceptances but are rewarded for acceptance at their top choice (randomized, hidden, actors get 1-2 extra pieces of information on their top choice school)

The adcoms get rewarded ($$$) if they maximize their yield by guessing who is and who is not coming to their school.

Round 1:

We watch adcoms interview the applicants individually, separate from everyone else, and we get to watch the actors woo the adcoms. It is entertaining because we see actors present themselves schizophrenically with stories to fit the school's profile. Contestants aim to find which actor seemed most knowledgeable (most likely to be top choice applicant)

After all the interviews, adcoms assign A or WL to applicants in whatever manner they think to maximize their yield.

Round 2:

Applicants standing behind their podium will now be able to choose to press a button to privately notify schools of their "Plan to Enroll."

Schools will see if an applicant is "PTE" at their school (only if they accepted him/her correctly in round 1)

They can also see if an accepted applicant chose to "PTE" for another school, but they will not know which one.

They will also see if an applicant has no acceptances because of no "PTE" designated.

Actors may also privately send one letter of interest (Love letter) to contestants in this time if they were not accepted to their top choice but to one school they think are most likely to accept him (they are motivated to maximize acceptances)

Adcoms / contestants will now finalize their A/WL list based on the CYMS tool and their trust levels with the applicant.

They may find themselves in a pickle, accepting an applicant that PTE to another school and receiving LoI's from their WL applicants.

They may want to accept the no-acceptance applicant to maximize their yield but other schools may do the same and they don't know his top choice.

Smart contestants will under-accept in Round 1 waiting for further imperfect information from the CYMS tool but they will get less information in round 2 (This person may have PTE to your school if you accepted him) and this may change the motivation of applicants using the CYMS/LoI system to maximize their own yield.

Final reveal

Applicants "CTE" to the highest assigned rank school they were accepted to.

Acceptance/Matriculation +$20k, Acceptance/Non-Matriculation -$20k, WL/Acceptance/Matriculation +$15k, WL/Acceptance/Non-matriculation -$15k

-----

Yes, this is a tumultuous game of treachery, trickery, and manipulation but doesn't even come close to the zany process that is real life medical school admissions.

Better luck next time Adcoms as we "Choose Your Medical School!!!!!"
Click to expand...

Welllllll what if you have an acceptance but you choose not to PTE due to the fact that you are banking on WLs?
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
That doesn't really refute what I said. Some schools just have certain policies. That doesn't mean they aren't going to be looking at the PTE info to see who is or is not planning on enrolling elsewhere. It also doesn't mean they will. The truth is we just don't know.
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I wasn't refuting what you said and noone really can refute how adcoms use PTE/CTE when it's all predicated on future happenstance.

I was touching on the "any info they can to figure out" line for my own situation. I tried to supply that information and was shut down. It is kinda depressing so I was venting.
 
Hirro said:
I wasn't refuting what you said and noone really can refute how adcoms use PTE/CTE when it's all predicated on future happenstance.

I was touching on the "any info they can to figure out" line for my own situation. I tried to supply that information and was shut down. It is kinda depressing so I was venting.
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Yeah some schools just have that policy for whatever reason. Frustrating.
 
So are y’all ultimately hitting plan to enroll by the 30th (and just hoping schools where you’re waitlisted will still give you the offer), or holding off on PTE/CTE til some future time?
 
ErlichBachman said:
So are y’all ultimately hitting plan to enroll by the 30th (and just hoping schools where you’re waitlisted will still give you the offer), or holding off on PTE/CTE til some future time?
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Did the former, mainly because I read first that it doesn’t matter for WLs or even makes you seem like a more “desirable” candidate, and also because once I read the counterargument to PTE, I learned you can’t deselect it anyway...
 
ErlichBachman said:
So are y’all ultimately hitting plan to enroll by the 30th (and just hoping schools where you’re waitlisted will still give you the offer), or holding off on PTE/CTE til some future time?
Click to expand...
I think I’m going to hold off, going with yield protection theory over the “more desirable” theory
 
ErlichBachman said:
So are y’all ultimately hitting plan to enroll by the 30th (and just hoping schools where you’re waitlisted will still give you the offer), or holding off on PTE/CTE til some future time?
Click to expand...
I would not hold off. Some schools explicitly say to select PTE by April 30th or they can rescind your acceptance. Not worth the risk, waitlist schools understand that by April 30th, everyone has to select PTE.
 
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meronebib said:
I would not hold off. Some schools explicitly say to select PTE by April 30th or they can rescind your acceptance. Not worth the risk, waitlist schools understand that by April 30th, everyone has to select PTE.
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Most schools only have CTE requirement. That is the case for the school I’m accepted to. I made sure of that before I made the decision to hold off lol
 
AlphaDoctor said:
I think I’m going to hold off, going with yield protection theory over the “more desirable” theory
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It’s the obvious thing that out of the ones you were accepted to, you will plan to enroll in just one of them, not all. So it is not a surprise for your WL schools to see that you prefer one of the options you currently have. If you are going to hold off because you think you’ll be less desirable by having a PTE selection, then why don’t you just submit a LOI to make your intentions more explicit, that is to say “hey I know I have PTE selection but I would much rather attend your school if you accept me” which is probably more effective. I think the PTE selection is only helpful for the schools you reject so they can fill your seat than for the schools you are waitlisted at. Theoretically, If everyone holds off, you won’t be going off any WL. This just defeats the purpose of the system
 
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futuredoc0307 said:
It’s the obvious thing that out of the ones you were accepted to, you will plan to enroll in just one of them, not all. So it is not a surprise for your WL schools to see that you prefer one of the options you currently have. If you are going to hold off because you think you’ll be less desirable by having a PTE selection, then why don’t you just submit a LOI to make your intentions more explicit, that is to say “hey I know I have PTE selection but I would much rather attend your school if you accept me” which is probably more effective. I think the PTE selection is only helpful for the schools you reject so they can fill your seat than for the schools you are waitlisted at. Theoretically, If everyone holds off, you won’t be going off any WL. This just defeats the purpose of the system
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I agree completely... but I already submitted an LOI to my waitlisted school a month ago. Wouldn’t it contradict my LOI if they see a PTE selection after having sent that letter?

Edit: I did not mention PTE selection or any other acceptances in my LOI.
 
I recently attended the last interview date for a school I am really interested in attending. I haven’t heard back yet and was wondering if it was a good idea to preemptively send a LOI before getting my decision. Looking at the SDN thread it seems people waited a long time to get decisions so my thinking is they’re going to wait until the class is full to give me a decision. Does anyone think this is a good idea?
 
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Hawkeye397 said:
I recently attended the last interview date for a school I am really interested in attending. I haven’t heard back yet and was wondering if it was a good idea to preemptively send a LOI before getting my decision. Looking at the SDN thread it seems people waited a long time to get decisions so my thinking is they’re going to wait until the class is full to give me a decision. Does anyone think this is a good idea?
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If it's actually your top choice, I think it can't hurt to send an LOI (assuming that the school is receptive to them). I don't see a point in waiting for the decision. That is, as long as you don't write something bad in the letter that would lead them to reject you (i.e. using another school's name in the letter, saying something super weird/terrible, etc.)
 
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AlphaDoctor said:
I agree completely... but I already submitted an LOI to my waitlisted school a month ago. Wouldn’t it contradict my LOI if they see a PTE selection after having sent that letter?

Edit: I did not mention PTE selection or any other acceptances in my LOI.
Click to expand...


Well, since they haven’t accepted you yet, you can’t plan to enroll in their school, so it would make perfect sense to PTE in a school that HAS accepted you until you hear back from the first school. It’s not a binding contract.
 
Im confused. Whats the more desirable theory? Whats the yield protection theory? Dont we have to submit CTE either way
 
Desirable= selecting PTE which allows schools to see that you have an acceptance which may give the impression that you are not relying on the WL to get into med school.

Yield= med schools prefer to accept people that they know will attend their school. By not exposing that you have other options, you are giving that waitlisted school the impression that they are your only hope and that you will attend if accepted.
 
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AlphaDoctor said:
Desirable= selecting PTE which allows schools to see that you have an acceptance which may give the impression that you are not relying on the WL to get into med school.

Yield= med schools prefer to accept people that they know will attend their school. By not exposing that you have other options, you are giving that waitlisted school the impression that they are your only hope and that you will attend if accepted.
Click to expand...

I think that second theory is unrealistic. You are underestimating the number of applicants that will be waitlisted and that would want to get an offer. Schools wouldn’t be desperate for anyone unless if it’s days before their classes start. It’s more important to pick someone who will succeed in their program and keep the reputation than to fill the seat quickly when they have a lot of time left to choose. Keep in mind, acceptances after April 30th gives the applicants very little time to decide. There is no reason for them to worry about an empty class this early
 
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Is it true that the waitlists are larger this year, so they are less meaningful? Also, does this apply to HPWL or not?
 
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DeadTrust said:
Is it true that the waitlists are larger this year, so they are less meaningful? Also, does this apply to HPWL or not?
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It's impossible to say for medical schools in general. Perhaps some schools have larger waitlists. I don't think that it's the same situation at every school though.
 
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