2018-2019 Waitlist Support Thread

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- There is zero reason why an otherwise-supportive thread needs to be derailed by a few people who want to hash out topics that are not appropriate for this thread. As noted, moderator action has been taken to ensure this thread remains relevant to the original topic.
 
Guys, for those who are on a waitlist, - get ready just in case.
1) make sure to submit FAFSA for the schools (you can do it while on WL)
2) save or put aside money for security deposit and first month rent if you might have to move
3) Go to your doctor and make sure you have the following vaccinations: tdap, Hep B, MMP, Varicella, and get TB done (go to school - specific thread and see what else you will need done). Some schools have one form that your medical provider has to fill out, some schools want to do it yourself on the occupational health format, and attach copies of the vaccination records. Go to your school specific thread and ask someone, which one of those formats does your school do. If they want you to fill out form yourself, getting the vaccination records from your provider will save you A LOT of time. And honestly - it cannot hurt whether you get in or not, you know?
4) pull up you credit report, and make sure it is good to go (if you would have to apply to Grad Plus loan).

doing these three things will save you A LOT of time if you get accepted in July (you don't have to scramble as much).
 
Just skimming through yesterday’s messages it’s clear why those people with “great stats” are waitlisted. When those people with “great stats” got invited for an interview, their true colors probably showed a tad bit.
 
Ec310 said:
Just skimming through yesterday’s messages it’s clear why those people with “great stats” are waitlisted. When those people with “great stats” got invited for an interview, their true colors probably showed a tad bit.
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There's data out there that shows that people's internet behaviors are pretty close to their real life ones.
 
Ec310 said:
Just skimming through yesterday’s messages it’s clear why those people with “great stats” are waitlisted. When those people with “great stats” got invited for an interview, their true colors probably showed a tad bit.
Click to expand...

While I don’t disagree, let’s keep the thread moving forward.
 
medimed2 said:
@gyngyn why do you think there will be more WL in June? My school seems to be waiting for it’s July CTE deadline to really start movement...but that seems quite late
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PTE is being interpreted as "I'm hoping to get off a waitlist somewhere else."
A significant proportion of accepted students (at most schools that I know of) are PTE.
If there are fine schools out there that find that their 2019 strategy resulted in serious under-accepting, there will be movement (as soon as they figure this out). If they over-shot, there will not be much. Knowing my colleagues to be very risk averse, I presumed under-accepting rather than over. This would result in a cascade of late WL movement. We all have to see how it rolls out, though.
 
gyngyn said:
PTE is being interpreted as "I'm hoping to get off a waitlist somewhere else."
A significant proportion of accepted students (at most schools that I know of) are PTE.
If there are fine schools out there that find that their 2019 strategy resulted in serious under-accepting, there will be movement (as soon as they figure this out). If they over-shot, there will not be much. Knowing my colleagues to be very risk averse, I presumed under-accepting rather than over. This would result in a cascade of late WL movement. We all have to see how it rolls out, though.
Click to expand...


If this is true and I get off the WL then I will donate $300 dollars to the charity of your choosing, as long as it's not the AAMC Foundation.
 
gyngyn said:
PTE is being interpreted as "I'm hoping to get off a waitlist somewhere else."
A significant proportion of accepted students (at most schools that I know of) are PTE.
If there are fine schools out there that find that their 2019 strategy resulted in serious under-accepting, there will be movement (as soon as they figure this out). If they over-shot, there will not be much. Knowing my colleagues to be very risk averse, I presumed under-accepting rather than over. This would result in a cascade of late WL movement. We all have to see how it rolls out, though.
Click to expand...

I agree with the notion that a significant percent of schools likely under accepted because this year being the first year of new rules. Hey, it's what I would've done, don't want to get in a situation where there are more students then seats, meaning lots of deferred applicants. However, isn't it fair to assume these schools accepted to the class size and when they saw people turn down applicants, pluck from the waitlist back to class size. And now, I would assume most schools are at the class size, so likely PTE become CTE.
 
DilNyethescienceguy said:
Did you receive actionable feedback from these waitlist schools? Were you able to address that feedback since your last application? What has changed since your last application? I think these are all questions you should consider before immediately reapplying.

Keep in mind the extent to which application cycles now overlap (May-July) significantly more so than in years past. An immediate reapplication carries its own set of risks - it's costly, potentially a sunken cost, and it adds another tally to your list of application attempts.

I know we all want to begin school ASAP but have you considered taking a cycle off to collect feedback, strengthen your app on said feedback, and play the waiting game down to the wire (perhaps there will be more super late movement this year)?
Click to expand...

I did receive actionable feedback from them. Essentially: keep doing what I'm doing because I'm a great applicant, it was just "a really competitive year." I'm going to keep volunteering, keep working at hospital, possibly become EMT as well, and continue my research.
 
VTDSPMed said:
I did receive actionable feedback from them. Essentially: keep doing what I'm doing because I'm a great applicant, it was just "a really competitive year." I'm going to keep volunteering, keep working at hospital, possibly become EMT as well, and continue my research.
Click to expand...

Remind yourself that when you’re in the waitlist category, you’re basically in a numbers game. Sometimes you have to play a couple of games to get a good hand, and in the mean time, don’t lose your poker face!!!! You’ve got this homie.
 
MaelTheSun said:
However, isn't it fair to assume these schools accepted to the class size and when they saw people turn down applicants, pluck from the waitlist back to class size.
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It's rather more like this: "if we normally accept 2.5 per seat to fill (and get to the WL) this year we will accept only 2.25 per seat."
 
VTDSPMed said:
I did receive actionable feedback from them. Essentially: keep doing what I'm doing because I'm a great applicant, it was just "a really competitive year." I'm going to keep volunteering, keep working at hospital, possibly become EMT as well, and continue my research.
Click to expand...
Yes, I was lucky to as well. And since we are waitlistees that received interviews, there is not too much for us to improve. Everyone here is close. Though for me, I'm pretty sure I tanked my first two interviews, so I really need to focus on that and story/Why?. As I see it, there are always ways to improve and learn more. It doesn't change when you are on this side or the other side, or the next frontier beyond. That's partially why I am still excited even through this grueling process of rejections.
 
1nside said:
Yes, I was lucky to as well. And since we are waitlistees that received interviews, there is not too much for us to improve. Everyone here is close. Though for me, I'm pretty sure I tanked my first two interviews, so I really need to focus on that and story/Why?. As I see it, there are always ways to improve and learn more. It doesn't change when you are on this side or the other side, or the next frontier beyond. That's partially why I am still excited even through this grueling process of rejections.
Click to expand...
I feel this. The school I wanted the most was my first interview and i think it takes 2-3 interviews to really get a feel for them. I got the same feedback from schools. There isn't much I could change other than personal statement and show passion for medicine.
 
red_tangoes said:
@gyngyn

Do you have any insight on the TX schools? I think most of us Texans think it’s pretty much over at this point.
Click to expand...

In the past, this has not been the case. I know of people getting off the waitlist the week classes started. One had literally moved to another state to accept a slot at an OOS school and decided to move back to TX 😀
 
LabileEmotions said:
The interview, as practiced by most school, is, to my mind, the stupidest of hurdles. It is rife with all manner of bias and highly depenedent on the personality of the interviewer. Too often, it forces the interviewee into a trick pony.

In a more perfect world, medical schools would do away with them completey, and adopt the MMI. This is one of myriad changes that needs to made in the application process.
Click to expand...
I didn't have MMI but so much is luck of the draw on who interviews you.
 
esob said:
In the past, this has not been the case. I know of people getting off the waitlist the week classes started. One had literally moved to another state to accept a slot at an OOS school and decided to move back to TX 😀
Click to expand...

That’s wild, and awesome.
 
Hemelovr said:
Harvard’s CTE deadline is June 3rd, so maybe movement will start to trickle down then.
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I don't understand how CTE deadlines would lead to movement. someone that will CTE at harvard upon deadline is reasonably assumed to have had a PTE selection there, which other acceptances would see as "plan to enroll at another school" and they would have replaced him early on before even withdrawing). where would the vacancy be coming from, unless someone CTE at a school different from what they PTEed?
 
LabileEmotions said:
The interview, as practiced by most schools, is, to my mind, the stupidest of hurdles. It is rife with all manner of bias and highly depenedent on the personality of the interviewer. Too often, it forces the interviewee into a trick pony.

It is an indefensible practice.

In a more perfect world, medical schools would do away with them completey, and adopt the MMI. This is one of myriad changes that needs to made in the application process.
Click to expand...

Word. When I reached out to shake some of my interviewers hands during the MMI BEFORE I sat down, they gave me that weak, limp-wristed, touch only a few fingers handshake. I mean, right out the gate they're giving me the impression they don't like me and if everyone tells me "Nobody is trying to trick you", then what am I supposed to think?
 
Tetines of Paris said:
Word. When I reached out to shake some of my interviewers hands during the MMI BEFORE I sat down, they gave me that weak, limp-wristed, touch only a few fingers handshake. I mean, right out the gate they're giving me the impression they don't like me and if everyone tells me "Nobody is trying to trick you", then what am I supposed to think?
Click to expand...
that's fair but honestly you have no idea how many people have no idea about shaking hands properly
 
futuredoc0307 said:
I don't understand how CTE deadlines would lead to movement. someone that will CTE at harvard upon deadline is reasonably assumed to have had a PTE selection there, which other acceptances would see as "plan to enroll at another school" and they would have replaced him early on before even withdrawing). where would the vacancy be coming from, unless someone CTE at a school different from what they PTEed?
Click to expand...

Aren’t the rules different this year? Schools can’t see if you are PTE at other schools which is why this cycle is odd, correct?
 
Hi @gyngyn , do you have any insight as to why a medical school in CA would start rejecting from their waitlist already?
 
nurse2doc2367 said:
Hi @gyngyn , do you have any insight as to why a medical school in CA would start rejecting from their waitlist already?
Click to expand...
If there is a very low chance that a candidate will be called, it only seems fair to let them know.
 
gyngyn said:
I've never understood Texas!
Maybe @wysdoc has some idea.
Click to expand...
I am more "blinded" than @gyngyn as I am not an adcom, just a very well informed interested observer! I can only see what people share on SDN and a few tips from folks I know locally.
Last year the WL action was over by 6/11 and the year before that by 6/6.
This year Texas moved back its no poaching deadline (no new offers to applicants who already have a Texas spot) from June 1 to May 15.
This might bring things to a close earlier but I kind of doubt it because some Texans might jump ship for an OOS WL offer and then we would have spots to fill, and those AMCAS schools are slower this year, etc. etc.
I know Texans with only WLs at this point are disappointed that there was not a surge of action after May 15th. Only 13 SDNers have announced WL offers since May 15, though we did have 29 SDN-reported WL offers between May 1 and May 15, a decent number.
 
futuredoc0307 said:
I don't understand how CTE deadlines would lead to movement. someone that will CTE at harvard upon deadline is reasonably assumed to have had a PTE selection there, which other acceptances would see as "plan to enroll at another school" and they would have replaced him early on before even withdrawing). where would the vacancy be coming from, unless someone CTE at a school different from what they PTEed?
Click to expand...
But all the people on the Harvard waitlist will get an actual rejection (I assume), and then they'll perhaps CTE to their current PTE'd acceptance, which lets that school more accurately utilize their waitlist, etc.

I think?
 
gyngyn said:
If there is a very low chance that a candidate will be called, it only seems fair to let them know.
Click to expand...

Wow thank you for the quick reply, would you say that waitlist movement is still imminent if they have not rejected all their waitlisted applicants?
 
nurse2doc2367 said:
Wow thank you for the quick reply, would you say that waitlist movement is still imminent if they have not rejected all their waitlisted applicants?
Click to expand...
Once waitlist movement has started, it usually continues as long as there is movement at peer institutions.
 
Making friends with really cool, amazing people on the interview trail, and meeting incredible faculty and programs, for the most part, has been a highlight of this process and uplifts me for the future. We tend to focus on the many negatives, but there are a ton of positives as well that I Hope people are able to realize and reflect on..
 
gyngyn said:
PTE is being interpreted as "I'm hoping to get off a waitlist somewhere else."
A significant proportion of accepted students (at most schools that I know of) are PTE.
If there are fine schools out there that find that their 2019 strategy resulted in serious under-accepting, there will be movement (as soon as they figure this out). If they over-shot, there will not be much. Knowing my colleagues to be very risk averse, I presumed under-accepting rather than over. This would result in a cascade of late WL movement. We all have to see how it rolls out, though.
Click to expand...

@gyngyn -- you have been my hero with respect to your expertise and willingness to share with us, so I hesitate to disagree with you, but I feel compelled. 🙂

Based on what I have seen and heard, it seems clear that your assessment is correct that most schools have made fewer offers of admission as compared to recent years, due to the lack of visibility this year. But basic math leads me to the exact opposite conclusion regarding WL movement, and so far that has proven out.

"Under accepted" implies not enough acceptances to fill available seats. To your knowledge, do any schools currently have open seats? Why is it not possible that less acceptances across the board will result in nothing more than everyone's yield going up, and overall WL movement going down, notwithstanding the fact that lots of candidates that might have been accepted (or rejected, for that matter) in previous years have been placed on a WL this year to provide a needed buffer due to schools' lack of visibility this year? It seems to me that less acceptances has to result in less movement, not more, or even the same, as compared to previous years.

All of this is likely to result in less optimal outcomes than the alternative under the MAR, since PTEs will "settle" for what they have, since they won't be called off the WL of preferred alternatives, because people won't be giving up seats at those alternatives, because they are not being called off WLs from their preferred alternatives. If you don't think people holding multiple acceptances is a widespread thing, and most schools have "under accepted," what vacancies are going to be created when CTE time rolls around to incite significant WL movement? It seems as though fewer acceptances will mean nothing more than less multiple acceptances, less optimal outcomes and less WL movement as compared to prior years.

What am I failing to consider?
 
KnightDoc said:
"Under accepted" implies not enough acceptances to fill available seats. To your knowledge, do any schools currently have open seats? Why is it not possible that less acceptances across the board will result in nothing more than everyone's yield going up, and overall WL movement going down, notwithstanding the fact that lots of candidates that might have been accepted (or rejected, for that matter) in previous years have been placed on a WL this year to provide a needed buffer due to schools' lack of visibility this year? It seems to me that less acceptances has to result in less movement, not more, or even the same, as compared to previous years.

All of this is likely to result in less optimal outcomes than the alternative under the MAR, since PTEs will "settle" for what they have, since they won't be called off the WL of preferred alternatives, because people won't be giving up seats at those alternatives, because they are not being called off WLs from their preferred alternatives. If you don't think people holding multiple acceptances is a widespread thing, and most schools have "under accepted," what vacancies are going to be created when CTE time rolls around to incite significant WL movement? It seems as though fewer acceptances will mean nothing more than less multiple acceptances, less optimal outcomes and less WL movement as compared to prior years.

What am I failing to consider?
Click to expand...
I use the term "under-accepted" to mean that they accepted fewer than their usual number, not fewer than the number of seats.
...and yes there are schools accepting off the WL even here in CA.
I agree that students are the real losers here since they are being required to drop from waitlists. That never happened before.
 
gyngyn said:
I use the term "under-accepted" to mean that they accepted fewer than their usual number, not fewer than the number of seats.
...and yes there are schools accepting off the WL even here in CA.
I agree that students are the real losers here since they are being required to drop from waitlists. That never happened before.
Click to expand...
i cannot help but wonder how the next year cycle is going to go.... Specifically, what are they going to keep from this cycle strategy wise, and what will be tossed aside...
 
If schools find AAMC recommendations a complete disaster then they should come up with their own rules/deadlines- seems logical to me since all the listed dates are not hard and fast. :shrug:.
It's only as chaotic as you make it.
 
gyngyn said:
I use the term "under-accepted" to mean that they accepted fewer than their usual number, not fewer than the number of seats.
...and yes there are schools accepting off the WL even here in CA.
I agree that students are the real losers here since they are being required to drop from waitlists. That never happened before.
Click to expand...
@gyngyn thanks for the help. I have similar thoughts to KnightDoc. Do you think when CTE deadlines come around that PTE students will just settle for that school?
 
M&L said:
yeah... from economics point of view makes perfect sense.... hefty deposits with relatively early refund deadlines.... So people are locked.
Click to expand...

Very possible if, in fact, there is a mad scramble at the end that causes chaos as classes are about to begin. But if WL movement is relatively steady, and actually less than in prior years due to less acceptances meaning less movement, then schools will simply develop new models to account for this (probably more rejections and less WLs, since schools will become comfortable that higher yields are sustainable as less offers of admission are made), everyone's expectations will adjust accordingly, and life will go on. The only good news, if in fact there isn't a flood of last minute WL movement, will be that people will not be left hanging in future years since they will know what the new traffic rules mean.

On the other hand, if there is bedlam as classes are about to begin, then maybe the schools go to big deposits to push the movement forward to May from July. JMHO. 🙂
 
This thread basically

265502
 
I know this is anecdotal, but to those that are waitlisted and may have to go through the cycle again, I personally know a doc that took 3 cycles to get in but now is doing a fellowship at one of the top schools in the country. My point is, the playing field gets releveled once you are in and a lot of the best docs I know didn't get in on their first try (and I've got 10K+ hrs working with physicians). It is unfortunate to not get in on the 1st try but it won't stop you from doing what you want to do in medicine.
 
Meridian17 said:
I doubt they will get rejections. Maybe some will but I strongly suspect not all will. There's always a chance people could a) get poached against the rules or b) just drop and not attend school at all. I've got a friend of a friend who got off the waitlist like 2 days before class started because someone deferred until next year, maybe they had a family emergency or something. If Harvard rejects its waitlisters early it'll be up a creek without a paddle if something like that happens.
Click to expand...

After their CTE date, they'll either be full or know they need X # of seats filled, which will go to the waitlist (which I assume requires a pretty quick response), and then they're full.. So maybe, what, a week or two after CTE they'll be full (barring last minute special things like you mentioned)?

Are you saying that after they're "full" that they're still going to keep dozens (hundreds? no idea how big waitlists are) of people hanging on a waitlist?
 
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