2018-2019 Waitlist Support Thread

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DrOptimusPrime said:
I have some what of an odd question. Recently I came across a professor at one of the schools I’m waitlisted at who does research in a field I’m very interested/have past have experiences in. I don’t know if it’s weird but could I send an email to them with my interest and state that I would love to learn more about their research and if accepted I would like to do research under them if there are open opportunities. I don’t want it to seem like I’m bombarding faculty/pestering. Would this be an okay or would adcoms have an issue with this?
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gyngyn said:
Seems a bit stalkerish.
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I don't think it would be a big deal if you reached out after you were accepted, but it's a waste of this person's time if you're not. At this point, the most likely result is your email will be ignored.
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
I don't think it would be a big deal if you reached out after you were accepted, but it's a waste of this person's time if you're not. At this point, the most likely result is your email will be ignored.
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I agree, after acceptance, no problem.
 
gyngyn said:
Seems a bit stalkerish.
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EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
I don't think it would be a big deal if you reached out after you were accepted, but it's a waste of this person's time if you're not. At this point, the most likely result is your email will be ignored.
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I’ll hold off sending that email for now, I guess. I don’t wanna come off stalkerish or waste anyone’s time.
 
Meridian17 said:
To adapt a quote slightly...

Optimism is a lie, told by a fearful mind, hoping to be wrong

I don't want to sound too edgelord, but I am just feeling so stupid that I keep being optimistic and believing in the optimism of others. I believed my advisor and Reddit when they said I'd probably get in relatively easily. Well I didn't have any interviews at first and I started to give up, but then getting my first interview made me optimistic again. Then before the interview I realized most interviewees don't get in, but I felt I did well at the interview and the adcoms there basically said "most people who get waitlisted here get in," so my optimism was replenished and remained even after I was waitlisted. Well May 1st came and went, so I started to lose hope again, but then I got a second interview, refilling my hope supply once again. But then I was rejected post-haste from that school. And even now my stupid brain won't let go of the (frankly preposterous) idea that there'll somehow be a magical bolus of movement out of nowhere when the CTE deadlines come around. I just want to give up, but I can't even do that properly.
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I know exactly how you feel. It doesn't help when things are said on interview day that don't pan out, or worse yet--completely misrepresent the reality of the situation. It's hard to blame yourself for being optimistic when it comes directly from adcom. Same thing happened to me for one of my waitlists. I wouldn't have been so eager for that particular waitlist spot if it hadn't been framed with such certainty, and I've been trying to adjust my expectations ever since.
 
lilmayor_of_icetown said:
I wouldn't have been so eager for that particular waitlist spot if it hadn't been framed with such certainty, and I've been trying to adjust my expectations ever since.
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I felt the same way, because the faculty member that interviewed me said she would love to see me (in a very excited voice) in the med school class. I thought I had a decent chance of getting off the WL.

@gyngyn do you have a guess as to why we were both WLed? I do not think the faculty member lied to me. She gains nothing from that. She probably really liked me and scored me well in my interview (I hope). It seems like they liked my primary and secondary app overall (they sent me an interview invite for a reason), and my interview went well. I am genuinely confused. I want to improve for next cycle but I do not know how. Everything seemed to go well.
 
Throwaway21234567 said:
I felt the same way, because the faculty member that interviewed me said she would love to see me (in a very excited voice) in the med school class. I thought I had a decent chance of getting off the WL.

@gyngyn do you have a guess as to why we were both WLed? I do not think the faculty member lied to me. She gains nothing from that. She probably really liked me and scored me well in my interview (I hope). It seems like they liked my primary and secondary app overall (they sent me an interview invite for a reason), and my interview went well. I am genuinely confused. I want to improve for next cycle but I do not know how. Everything seemed to go well.
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I had a very similar experience which I posted earlier. Long story short both my interviewers told me they saw me succeeding at the school and I was a great fit however I was waitlisted and it seems like other people have been getting off the waitlist at this school even though no one is posting on SDN. I’ve been very confused as well.
 
Throwaway21234567 said:
I felt the same way, because the faculty member that interviewed me said she would love to see me (in a very excited voice) in the med school class. I thought I had a decent chance of getting off the WL.

@gyngyn do you have a guess as to why we were both WLed? I do not think the faculty member lied to me. She gains nothing from that. She probably really liked me and scored me well in my interview (I hope). It seems like they liked my primary and secondary app overall (they sent me an interview invite for a reason), and my interview went well. I am genuinely confused. I want to improve for next cycle but I do not know how. Everything seemed to go well.
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I think the main reason is that your application is passed through the hands of multiple non-overlapping parties and the fact that some of these parties have different amounts of information available to them. Typically at the pre-interview stage, your application will go through the hands of multiple screeners that, based solely on what is written, will result in you receiving an interview if you score well. But maybe the folks who vote at the committee meeting will disagree with the screeners on the strength of the written application. The screeners have to sift through a couple thousand applications while the voting committee will only have to go through several hundred, and that allows them to inspect your written application further.

Your faculty interviewer probably meant well. But if the interview was closed file, then they were only really commenting on your fit based on the interview and not on the whole application. Additionally, frequently the faculty interviewer does not actually sit on the voting committee; they write a review and that's it (this was described at 2 of the 3 traditional interviews I had). So as much as they may like you, they won't have the opportunity to come to your defense if there is a disagreement at the meeting. Lastly, it can be difficult to predict how the committee can vote, and they may have just seen similarities between you and other successful applicants. Who knows, but if anyone more knowledgeable of the process would like to chime in, please do.
 
Yup. I think you are spot on - but not your daddy.

I also think these selections are more business than actual "holistic" approaches when it comes to separating the cows from the sheep - don't care what they say. They want the highest GPA's & MCAT average for the class they can get regardless of undergraduate school or what you studied. Its their marketing for attraction of faculty, benefactor dollars and research dollars. Then they look at age, experiences (family ties to school or medicine (what can you do for me in the future) and then factors for balancing class by race and gender and serving / staying in the local community post-graduation. I can't say good or bad one way or the other but the interview & interviewers I had this past cycle had no idea as to my stats when we met - just what was written in my PS. I too felt like I had a great interview and was comfortable in my responses but from their it goes into the abyss beyond the actual interviewers control. I did do a post-WL file review with ADCOM member and while I was told very close, great app, strong in these areas be hopeful - I also got a few bits of insight as to things I could work on. Sometimes you have to pause and reflect on what is being shared with you and what is not (don't hear what you want to hear) and then try and take it as a constructive observation to enhance next app. I am still hopeful too, that I get in to the school, but also have to do what I can to gain an acceptance I will be happy with and likely re-apply. Trust me I recognize now how naïve I was and many of these posts here on SDN have helped over this past cycle.
 
@gyngyn, I just got another email from Hofstra to fill out a waitlist survey that gauges my interests in the school. Can you comment on it from an adcom’s perspective? Do you think they will have more waitlist movement this late in the cycle? Their CTE deadline is around July 15th. Thank you so much!
 
Quantum Tunneling Effect said:
@gyngyn, I just got another email from Hofstra to fill out a waitlist survey that gauges my interests in the school. Can you comment on it from an adcom’s perspective? Do you think they will have more waitlist movement this late in the cycle? Their CTE deadline is around July 15th. Thank you so much!
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Because we no longer have facts upon which to assess the waitlist, we have constructed these questionnaires to evaluate the number of actual candidates that remain. Since none of us knows what may happen in mid-July, it would be foolish not to prepare for significant movement.
 
Throwaway21234567 said:
@gyngyn do you have a guess as to why we were both WLed? I do not think the faculty member lied to me. She gains nothing from that. She probably really liked me and scored me well in my interview (I hope). It seems like they liked my primary and secondary app overall (they sent me an interview invite for a reason), and my interview went well. I am genuinely confused. I want to improve for next cycle but I do not know how. Everything seemed to go well.
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Sometimes the committee sees things differently.
 
areyoumydaddy said:
I think the main reason is that your application is passed through the hands of multiple non-overlapping parties and the fact that some of these parties have different amounts of information available to them. Typically at the pre-interview stage, your application will go through the hands of multiple screeners that, based solely on what is written, will result in you receiving an interview if you score well. But maybe the folks who vote at the committee meeting will disagree with the screeners on the strength of the written application. The screeners have to sift through a couple thousand applications while the voting committee will only have to go through several hundred, and that allows them to inspect your written application further.

Your faculty interviewer probably meant well. But if the interview was closed file, then they were only really commenting on your fit based on the interview and not on the whole application. Additionally, frequently the faculty interviewer does not actually sit on the voting committee; they write a review and that's it (this was described at 2 of the 3 traditional interviews I had). So as much as they may like you, they won't have the opportunity to come to your defense if there is a disagreement at the meeting. Lastly, it can be difficult to predict how the committee can vote, and they may have just seen similarities between you and other successful applicants. Who knows, but if anyone more knowledgeable of the process would like to chime in, please do.
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The interview was open file, but yes, adcom members may not think I am as strong of a candidate as my faculty interviewer and (pre-interview) screeners. That is possible.
 
Throwaway21234567 said:
Yes, that makes sense. Can you elaborate?
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The final decision is made by a group from differing backgrounds, with varied opinions.
Your interviewer was but one voice in this outcome.
 
gyngyn said:
The final decision is made by a group from differing backgrounds, with varied opinions.
Your interviewer was but one voice in this outcome.
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Not sure if you are able to give insight about common practice. Also knowing that schools likely have different systems, does each member of that final committee review the application, including all essays and interview performance, in-depth? Do they all read it on their own and cast an individual vote or will they just discuss it all together and form a final vote?

It is hard to say how much of my stories and motivations from multiple interviews get across to that final committee. Maybe some schools are more influenced by interviews than others. I felt that my primary essay and activities essays/most meaningful were lacking and received feedback confirming, so worked very hard to make them more personal and memorable with a re-app. I think my secondary essays were quite strong, however, and fit the mission of the school, leading to acceptance.

I guess I am trying to gauge how much my essays and interviews weighed.
 
1nside said:
Not sure if you are able to give insight about common practice. Also knowing that schools likely have different systems, does each member of that final committee review the application, including all essays and interview performance, in-depth? Do they all read it on their own and cast an individual vote or will they just discuss it all together and form a final vote?

It is hard to say how much of my stories and motivations from multiple interviews get across to that final committee. Maybe some schools are more influenced by interviews than others. I felt that my primary essay and activities essays/most meaningful were lacking and received feedback confirming, so worked very hard to make them more personal and memorable with a re-app. I think my secondary essays were quite strong, however, and fit the mission of the school, leading to acceptance.

I guess I am trying to gauge how much my essays and interviews weighed.
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Though there are many ways to run admissions, there are some things that can be said to be universal. Whatever mechanism is used to identify acceptable candidates, the final decision must be made by a group largely made up of faculty (both basic science and clinical).
At every school I know, all available information is shared before a final decision is made. Generally speaking, voting members are expected to review all aspects of the application before a final vote is taken. Discussion is an important part of these decisions. Preliminary votes may change after full discussion.
 
Meridian17 said:
People say that I should be proud cause it's impressive to get an interview, and I was probably in the top half of interviewees if I got waitlisted. Like I guess, but the outcome is the same as a pre-II R, so it's hard to feel good about that (in fact the outcome is arguably worse, getting that much closer to your dreams and then being denied them at the last stage feels worse than never even getting close IMO).
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I get the same feedback (e.g. getting x interviews/waitlists is "unheard of") and feel similarly. My friends and family who mention this to me are trying to lift my mood and get me to recognize accomplishment, but I probably won't feel like I've accomplished anything until maybe 10-15 years from now when I've worked a few years as an attending or longer even...maybe 40-50 years, when looking back on a long career.
 
gyngyn said:
Though there are many ways to run admissions, there are some things that can be said to be universal. Whatever mechanism is used to identify acceptable candidates, the final decision must be made by a group largely made up of faculty (both basic science and clinical).
At every school I know, all available information is shared before a final decision is made. Generally speaking, voting members are expected to review all aspects of the application before a final vote is taken. Discussion is an important part of these decisions. Preliminary votes may change after full discussion.
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Thank you for the insights into what actually goes on in the AdCom room! Just out of curiosity, how are AdCom members typically selected (e.g. is it an election, do members change year-to-year?)? Also, I've seen that group discussions on candidates often can dissemble into superficial judgments (e.g. "this candidate didn't smile enough so I don't think I will get along with him"). Do you find this to be an issue and is there a way to prevent it?
 
If it eases any of the minds of us children of the corn midwesterners (or OOS who applied there), a few people on Wayne's thread have posted that they still hold multiple acceptances as Wayne has not released financial aid info yet, and the CTE deadline is next week. This could spur some movement in the area.
 
Medtech9 said:
Thank you for the insights into what actually goes on in the AdCom room! Just out of curiosity, how are AdCom members typically selected (e.g. is it an election, do members change year-to-year?)? Also, I've seen that group discussions on candidates often can dissemble into superficial judgments (e.g. "this candidate didn't smile enough so I don't think I will get along with him"). Do you find this to be an issue and is there a way to prevent it?
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Selection methods are heterogeneous.
In my opinion, the best members are faculty with a vested interest in the outcome. They tend to be those who have earned teaching awards and have demonstrated a commitment to the school as well as the process.
Committee members appointed by deans as a perquisite tend not to be as... engaged and collaborative.

There are many ways to make sure that the committee remembers its mission so that things like you describe do not happen. It does require active, strong leadership, though.
 
justkeepswimming1050 said:
The biggest issue I’m having with this whole process is not being able to get a job/make a long-term commitment. I feel like I’m literally just killing time and there’s nothing I can do about it
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I had the same dilemma but I think you just need to make the moves that you have to in protecting yourself. I sent out job and volunteer apps and was transparent with some of my current employers that I thought would be more understanding. Rent may be hopefully negotiated as month to month for the short term.

I was paralyzed but began to realize that I have to make moves as if it is not going to happen. I went hard during the wait, and maybe much of it was a waste or not. I'm definitely throwing away a lot of money but I had to hedge. It could still be listed in residency apps so there is that. Just keep going hard until you get that acceptance and if you do, give quick notice and apologize sincerely. I don't think anyone can just keep putting their life on hold because the system is inefficient.
 
imagiraffe said:
If it eases any of the minds of us children of the corn midwesterners (or OOS who applied there), a few people on Wayne's thread have posted that they still hold multiple acceptances as Wayne has not released financial aid info yet, and the CTE deadline is next week. This could spur some movement in the area.
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I've actually noticed that multiple schools, at least the ones I have been waitlisted at, have been significantly delayed in delivering on financial aid. Logically, this would push waitlist movement back because people wouldn't be able to know where to CTE until they are able to compare costs, and the AAMC recommends for schools to "Recognize and respect the challenges of applicants with multiple acceptance offer [...] and applicants who have not yet been informed about financial aid opportunities at schools to which they have been accepted". And with the newness of CTE, it seems there are multiple schools that are being lax with its usage.

@gyngyn Have you noticed any trends in the late delivery of financial aid packages in this cycle or is this the norm for multiple schools to not have financial aid done by mid-June ? And if this delay is unusual, would this be a significant factor in backlogging waitlist movement?
 
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DrOptimusPrime said:
I have some what of an odd question. Recently I came across a professor at one of the schools I’m waitlisted at who does research in a field I’m very interested/have past have experiences in. I don’t know if it’s weird but could I send an email to them with my interest and state that I would love to learn more about their research and if accepted I would like to do research under them if there are open opportunities. I don’t want it to seem like I’m bombarding faculty/pestering. Would this be an okay or would adcoms have an issue with this?
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I would strongly recommend against this unless you have personal ties with the person and they know you well. Tell the adcoms that you like that facult member's research and that makes you a good fit. You can't go around the adcom to gain favor. It wont work, and no one is going to go on a limb for you based on an email. Just send your update and hope for the best.
 
For everyone on the waitlist, good luck! I was waitlisted without acceptances my first cycle and didn't get in, eventually got in and on Monday I start my first say of surgery residency at my top choice program. You'll get there! I got rejected off the waitlist in like August, but then worked hard for a few years and finally got multiple acceptances. For those of you without an acceptance in hand, send in your letters of intent and then do your best to move on from this cycle. Find a cool job for a year (I did AmeriCorps and loved it) and figure out what you can improve for a future cycle. You will drive yourself crazy on here looking for hope. Also, take a vacation and clear your head a bit.
 
Fam, is the consensus not to contact schools before CTE deadlines? I want them to know that I am still very ecstatic about attending, since any WL movement that is left is most likely going to happen near their CTE dates. But they have each gotten a LOI/LOInterest already (a few months ago). Would a quick few sentences reiterating my passion for attending their school be a good idea? Or probably not?
 
Throwaway21234567 said:
Fam, is the consensus not to contact schools before CTE deadlines? I want them to know that I am still very ecstatic about attending, since any WL movement that is left is most likely going to happen near their CTE dates. But they have each gotten a LOI/LOInterest already (a few months ago). Would a quick few sentences reiterating my passion for attending their school be a good idea? Or probably not?
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I think, according to most, and gyngyn, the consensus is the opposite of that. You ARE supposed to contact schools and express your definite interest to attend. Not every day obviously..
 
Kinda off topic, but I'm realizing that I probably need more volunteering. I am working full time and prepping for a retake so it's a bit hard to find time to volunteer right now. What would you guys recommend? I have a few ideas but interested to hear your thoughts as well.
 
Gregor_Mendel said:
Kinda off topic, but I'm realizing that I probably need more volunteering. I am working full time and prepping for a retake so it's a bit hard to find time to volunteer right now. What would you guys recommend? I have a few ideas but interested to hear your thoughts as well.
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Working full time while studying for a retake is not an environment conducive to extra volunteering. If you can reduce work hours by 8 hours a week for volunteering then that is good.
 
Gregor_Mendel said:
Kinda off topic, but I'm realizing that I probably need more volunteering. I am working full time and prepping for a retake so it's a bit hard to find time to volunteer right now. What would you guys recommend? I have a few ideas but interested to hear your thoughts as well.
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I literally just do 4 hour shifts at this kitchen that delivers meals to poor and disabled once every other week. It sounds like nothing but it really builds up and you meet some really interesting people!
 
Gregor_Mendel said:
Kinda off topic, but I'm realizing that I probably need more volunteering. I am working full time and prepping for a retake so it's a bit hard to find time to volunteer right now. What would you guys recommend? I have a few ideas but interested to hear your thoughts as well.
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Try to find a volunteer program that incorporates a hobby that you have (for example, if you're a runner, there are programs like back on your feet where you run with people who are experiencing homelessness or there is a volunteer program near me where people who are blind need people to run with them.) . Or volunteer in the ED somewhere so you can study when it's slow lol
 
When someone in your school specific thread posts that they just withdrew, and then 1 hour later someone posts "OMG just got in"


268792
 
For those reapplying this cycle, when are you submitting all of your secondaries and adding on additional schools to your throwaway? Is anyone waiting for after CTE deadlines? I don’t want to make the same mistake of applying late but I also don’t want to spend $3k if i don’t need to 😕
 
jordij94 said:
For those reapplying this cycle, when are you submitting all of your secondaries and adding on additional schools to your throwaway? Is anyone waiting for after CTE deadlines? I don’t want to make the same mistake of applying late but I also don’t want to spend $3k if i don’t need to 😕
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I'm going to submit when my letters come in, around mid July, si then I'll be complete.
 
CTE for my school is tomorrow and while they are known for accepting students last minute, my desperation wants to sent another LOI blurb. Just a few sentences since original LOI was back in April. Should I bother?
 
Tetines of Paris said:
CTE for my school is tomorrow and while they are known for accepting students last minute, my desperation wants to sent another LOI blurb. Just a few sentences since original LOI was back in April. Should I bother?
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Mais non
 
@gyngyn do you still believe July will hold a great deal of movement based on the recent patterns? My WL school has had none that I've heard of and the CTE is in July.
 
Meridian17 said:
Really hoping to see that continue (and especially in the mid tiers, as that would probably be the biggest source of movement for my low tier waitlist). But I think it's more likely that those few schools underaccepted, and that the rest are full. Preparing myself for another disappointing two weeks, followed by the inevitable deep depression lol
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just get to the depression phase now. You'll feel better
 
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