- Joined
- Sep 10, 2021
- Messages
- 45
- Reaction score
- 65
2021-2022 Hackensack Meridian
- Thread starter wysdoc
- Start date
IncomingMD
Full Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2021
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 169
Keep in mind that not all 150+ will be doing the 3yr path. Everyone who decides to go 4 years will be applying through regular match (that's my understanding so far).
Call me ignorant, but I don't get why that matters? Does that mean the clinical education is subpar? Speaking from more personal anecdotes, in my city, there are international students that are rotating with some pretty good physicians (speaking of my region, of course).
Thanks so much for the reply, I appreciate it. How possible is it to rotate at HUMC given it’s probably the top choice.
It's going to be harder than the more central and southern sites I can tell you that for sure. We have a lottery system so there is definitely luck involved.
Not sure either. SGU students also rotate at some of the rwj and njms sites too.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
I honestly don't know how to answer you. I also don't know whether it would necessarily mean the education is subpar, but I didn't work as hard as I did to rotate with students from the Caribbean. For all I know, the pre-clinical education at SGU is also not subpar, but I'm not going to test that theory out.
I wish nothing but the best for them, but my working assumption would be that the sites bringing them in are not, in fact, offering the finest clinical education available in the country. Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know how many SGU students rotate at Mass Gen?
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
I honestly had no idea. Live and learn.
I always thought Caribbean schools made arrangements at hospitals that did not have affiliations with mainland schools. Just what would motivate hospitals to host these offshore students? Money??? If so, yeah, I'd wonder about the quality of the training.
What I do know is that I work with a doc that went to Ross and did his training at Cleveland Clinic. In no way am I advocating for going that route, but I'm also not here to degrade other people for the particular path their on. Also, who is to say that you won't learn something from rotating with such students? I know how egotistical pre meds are, but isn't medicine supposed to be more collaborative and patient-centered as opposed to making jabs like the one you did?
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
I'm quite sure that I could learn something anywhere, anytime, and from anyone. That doesn't mean I'm going to sign up to do rotations with students from the Caribbean if I have an alternative.
Yes, medicine is supposed to be collaborative and patient centered. Maybe we should all just ignore the fact that everything is stratified, including medical education. Maybe we should just have a lottery among everyone whose GPA is >3.0 and MCAT >500 to decide who gets to become a doctor. And then another lottery to decide what school we attend. And then another one to decide where we do rotations. And then another one to decide where we do residencies and what we specialize in. Let's all collaborate and keep our eye on the ball -- the patients, not ourselves.
All the Caribbean schools, not just the Big 4, could be included! Sound good? Let's ask the folks about to be accepted at HMS how they'd feel about being included. 😎
MedSchoolHopeful2026
Full Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2021
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 161
I can tell you’ve probably never been in elite spaces or institutions. Personally, I went to a top 20 undergrad and all of my professors were trash. I took classes at a lower rank school during the summer and found the education to be 10x better than my undergrad institution. Ranking and prestige does not always have a positive correlation. Sometimes it’s just the caliber and competitiveness culturally between students that leads to some schools maintaining a high ranking.I'm quite sure that I could learn something anywhere, anytime, and from anyone. That doesn't mean I'm going to sign up to do rotations with students from the Caribbean if I have an alternative.
Yes, medicine is supposed to be collaborative and patient centered. Maybe we should all just ignore the fact that everything is stratified, including medical education. Maybe we should just have a lottery among everyone whose GPA is >3.0 and MCAT >500 to decide who gets to become a doctor. And then another lottery to decide what school we attend. And then another one to decide where we do rotations. And then another one to decide where we do residencies and what we specialize in. Let's all collaborate and keep our eye on the ball -- the patients, not ourselves.
All the Caribbean schools, not just the Big 4, could be included! Sound good? Let's ask the folks about to be accepted at HMS how they'd feel about being included. 😎
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
You are correct. I go to an unranked UG, and am actually pretty happy with the quality of my professors and my experience, so it's not like I am worshipping at the altar of the rankings like so many others here do.
I've just been conditioned through years of SDN participation to be leery of anything connected to the Caribbean, and that includes mainland hospitals that would host their rotations.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2021
- Messages
- 4,923
- Reaction score
- 4,497
Professors at top 20 undergrads are usually too focused on research and graduate students to be excellent teachers. It is not entirely dichotomous but I have witnessed multiple profs who were great teachers get denied tenure because their research output/impact wasn’t sufficient.
That’s why I would probably recommend schools like Amherst, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Pomona etc. for undergraduate education
D
deleted1122447
the next travesty we'll discover is that Carribean IMGs dare to breathe the same air as MD students. 🙄 /sI'm quite sure that I could learn something anywhere, anytime, and from anyone. That doesn't mean I'm going to sign up to do rotations with students from the Caribbean if I have an alternative.
Yes, medicine is supposed to be collaborative and patient centered. Maybe we should all just ignore the fact that everything is stratified, including medical education. Maybe we should just have a lottery among everyone whose GPA is >3.0 and MCAT >500 to decide who gets to become a doctor. And then another lottery to decide what school we attend. And then another one to decide where we do rotations. And then another one to decide where we do residencies and what we specialize in. Let's all collaborate and keep our eye on the ball -- the patients, not ourselves.
All the Caribbean schools, not just the Big 4, could be included! Sound good? Let's ask the folks about to be accepted at HMS how they'd feel about being included. 😎
Dude you need to chill. You'll realize a very small minority of medical students think that way. Those "Caribbean" students who you seem to think are so beneath you have to work twice as hard just to even make it to rotations. You will likely have your pick at any specialty but they won't so chill.I'm quite sure that I could learn something anywhere, anytime, and from anyone. That doesn't mean I'm going to sign up to do rotations with students from the Caribbean if I have an alternative.
Yes, medicine is supposed to be collaborative and patient centered. Maybe we should all just ignore the fact that everything is stratified, including medical education. Maybe we should just have a lottery among everyone whose GPA is >3.0 and MCAT >500 to decide who gets to become a doctor. And then another lottery to decide what school we attend. And then another one to decide where we do rotations. And then another one to decide where we do residencies and what we specialize in. Let's all collaborate and keep our eye on the ball -- the patients, not ourselves.
All the Caribbean schools, not just the Big 4, could be included! Sound good? Let's ask the folks about to be accepted at HMS how they'd feel about being included. 😎
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
Okay. Fair enough. I still need to get up to speed on some things. It's not so much that I think the students are beneath me as I think their schools are, and I just assumed any hospital that would work with the schools was as well. Maybe not.
I just happen to think that the schools' business model is scammy, and am surprised that reputable US teaching hospitals would do business with them. I just assumed that hospitals catering to Caribbean students were not affiliated with mainstream US programs.
Afraid those hospitals will catch their mediocrity? Lol I agree their business model is scammy but those that make it through are generally excellent doctors in part because they have access to these rotations. Would you prefer they also receive a crappy clinical education and go on to become crappy doctors? MDs generaly dont want to go into primary care. Thats slowly changing but not fast enough. Students who attend a Carribean med school overcome crazy obstacles for the privilege of practicing primary care in areas of the country where no one wants to go to but is in desperate need. People are so quick to disregard carribbean students and DO students but don’t realize how much we need them.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
Nope. I'm afraid they will catch their scammy-ness, since one would think reputable healthcare providers would steer clear of business relationships with predators, which is what the Caribbean schools are, not mediocre. The fact that some people succeed in spite of them is a testament to their intelligence, ability and fortitude, but says nothing about the quality of education or training they receive, which, by all accounts, is abysmal. Maybe not, but that's what I'm thinking, and that, as a result, the training will be subpar at a hospital that takes money from Caribbean schools to provide rotations to their students.
I checked out the list provided on SGU's website, and did not notice any leading hospitals in most places in the country, and yet there was Hackensack Meridian, front and center in NJ. I didn't happen to notice Cooper, or the Rutgers hospitals in Newark or New Brunswick, or any leading hospital in NY or Philly, but there was Hackensack Meridian. I'm not as confident as you that clinical training provided at the Center for Haitian Studies or Larkin Community Hopsital in Florida, or Coney Island Hospital or Richmond University Medical Center in NY is as "generally excellent" as you seem to believe. Which then brings me back to Hackensack Meridian, which is apparently in their esteemed company as one of SGU's 37 US clinical sites, 12 of which are the entirely messed up NYC municipal hospital system.
Not so much that I will catch cooties from breathing the same air as IMGs, but that I will suffer from receiving the same subpar clinical training they receive. Sorry for not being more clear. No, I'm not a fan of the Caribbean schools, nor of any business that affiliates with them.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2016
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 98
Anyone reading this thread, be wary of people claiming to know all about medical school that aren't actually in medical school yet (especially someone that clearly hasn't even interviewed here).
-More than enough clinical opportunities, plenty of residency options. If they want you, they will find a way to take you.
-SGU students rotate at some sites in small numbers and have their own teaching teams that are not faculty through the school. They seem to be getting phased out and contract for rotations was made before the medical school was even started. Never had a SGU student on my teaching team, but also the Caribbean student slander on this thread is pretty absurd. Their for-profit schools suck, but 99% of the time they are hardworking and good people. They also rotate at Morristown and all Barnabas hospitals (AKA NJMS), and in Florida, and in NYC.
-Some Rutgers residents still rotate through HMH, but Rutgers med students stopped after the school opened.
-One person already matched Urology at Sinai (separate match). Rest of class seemed to do way better than I even expected with interviews. We will see, but it's looking good!
-More than enough clinical opportunities, plenty of residency options. If they want you, they will find a way to take you.
-SGU students rotate at some sites in small numbers and have their own teaching teams that are not faculty through the school. They seem to be getting phased out and contract for rotations was made before the medical school was even started. Never had a SGU student on my teaching team, but also the Caribbean student slander on this thread is pretty absurd. Their for-profit schools suck, but 99% of the time they are hardworking and good people. They also rotate at Morristown and all Barnabas hospitals (AKA NJMS), and in Florida, and in NYC.
-Some Rutgers residents still rotate through HMH, but Rutgers med students stopped after the school opened.
-One person already matched Urology at Sinai (separate match). Rest of class seemed to do way better than I even expected with interviews. We will see, but it's looking good!
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2016
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 98
Newark Beth Israel and Barnabas are literally NJMS hospitals and are on that same list lololol
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly the kind of information we need, and I for one would not have known enough to even ask!
No shade at intended at the lucky few who successfully make it out of the Caribbean, but rather at their schools, and, as I said, at the US based providers who enable them. The fact that they have their own teaching teams is telling. More important would be the fact they are being phased out. Not a great look for Hackensack that they were happy to do business with the schools and take their money, but the fact that it is being phased out to make room for Hackensack's own students is indeed promising.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
Also, while I can clearly never know as much as someone like you who is actually in medical school, at least not until I enroll myself, I probably know a lot more than you think.
For instance, I happen to know that both Beth Israel and Barnabas are affiliated with RWJMS, not NJMS. 🙂 And that both of them are formerly independent institutions that got gobbled up in the great healthcare consolidation, and that neither of them are literally the flagship home teaching hospital of either RWJMS or NJMS, unlike a certain prominent hospital in Hackensack. Just sayin'. 😎
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2016
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 98
Look again. NJMS Pediatrics goes to Newark Beth Israel, NJMS IM goes to Barnabas.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2021
- Messages
- 126
- Reaction score
- 175
@KnightDoc can you move this convo elsewhere
visionofdivision
Full Member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2021
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 89
got an II last tuesday and just completed the interview! was complete mid july and did not send any updates
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2019
- Messages
- 8,428
- Reaction score
- 9,792
Okay, but they are still RWJBH hospitals, and not part of University Hospital Newark. Probably has something to do with the fact that both RWJMS and NJMS are both part of Rutgers.
How were you complete mid july if the secondary was sent out in august?
visionofdivision
Full Member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2021
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 89
whoops meant mid august for the preliminary review, too many apps to keep track of
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2020
- Messages
- 35
- Reaction score
- 40
Anybody know how to send updates?
Wow urology at Mt. Sinai is an impressive way to start off first match season. I remember at my interview some students mentioned urology being one of Hackensacks areas of expertise.Thanks a lot for the info and good luck on the match later this month!
D
deleted1122447
Means they didn't do the 3 year thing where you match only to hackensack and instead opted to separately match by taking another year.
Urology has a "separate" match from the regular match that happens in a couple weeks.
IncomingMD
Full Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2021
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 169
Indeed man. I am very excited to join this school. I think it has everything to be the top school in NJ. Can't wait for March 18th.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2016
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 98
Just to be clear because its a little confusing, Urology and Optho do their own application and match process separate from NRMP that are usually in early February. All other specialties do NRMP match in March (this year 3/18)
I would definitely not expect similar results for the rest of the class.
- Joined
- May 15, 2019
- Messages
- 2,548
- Reaction score
- 1,838
Is this school still interviewing?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Messages
- 134
- Reaction score
- 139
Current "upper class" student at hackensack. Willing to answer questions. dont want to dox myself tho.
Thank you. It seems like some current students in the thread above are optimistic about the match results whereas some others are more pessimistic. where do you stand? Do you think there will be a high number of students who don’t match at all? Also do you anticipate any accreditation issues similar to Cal Northstate? Thanks again for offering to answer questions
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Messages
- 134
- Reaction score
- 139
Feel like matching depends a lot on yourself, not the school. The students who are in "danger of not matching" are not in that position because of the school's low reputation. I have no idea how many will go unmatched, we will find that out together.
On the other hand I do think the school limits your upward trajectory. I can only think of a couple students landing top 10 interviews. I don't believe there have been many students landing interviews at the big 4 in manhattan. I think this is a problem given that many applicants have geographic preference.
I think that students who want neurosurgery or ophtho are very disadvantaged at this program given the lack of home programs. That being said, things will go much better for students who are applying from this school 4 years from now (for example).
I doubt there will be accreditation issues, I haven't heard of any issues. Again, I will learn the same time you will.
Thanks a lot. So I’m guessing it may be a bit easier to match for students who have no desire to stay in New York City or the northeast but would like to go maybe to the Midwest or south?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Messages
- 134
- Reaction score
- 139
There are plenty of other programs in NYC than the big 4. I guess what I am saying is getting a 250/260 here won't grant you interviews at Columbia. Still other good options like northwell or montefiore (for IM in this example). Also good options in NJ like RWJ and NJMS. Furthermore, the programs at Hackensack are expanding. The IM program now has fellowships in cards pulm crit, heme onc on the way, etc etc.
I think this school is particularly attractive for the Phase 3 program in my opinion.
D
deleted929944
1. Any anticipated impact of the Dean's death.
2. When does the school expect to know if it's fully accredited.
3. Best things about the school.
4. Worst things about the school.
5. How often do you and your cohorts go into Manhattan for fun.
6. How friendly is the student body?
wondering the same thing
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2021
- Messages
- 126
- Reaction score
- 175
They responded to my email update this week and didn't auto-reject me lol so I'm assuming so! (Sent the update early Feb)
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2016
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 98
Think it's really dependent on personal factors and the specialty but majority of my interviews were in major metro Northeast and Chicago. Got less South/Midwest/West Coast than I expected
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2016
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 98
DM me and can answer honestly just feel like a few answers have personal info
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Messages
- 134
- Reaction score
- 139
Ok lets see here
1. I don't see how there would be any negative impact to operations. Not the best person to ask though.
2. Not sure what the timelines are. You could probably answer that better than I.
3.
- P3R program for students looking at primary care, IM, gen surg, anesthesia. I would keep in mind that, as more students enter each class, the prospect of a "guaranteed" anesthesia spot becomes lower (for example).
- Close to nyc. You can get on an NJ transit bus right in front of campus and make it to mid town in 25 min or so.
- Id say we have good faculty that are decently well connected.
4.
- Your rotation sites are geographically burdensome. One site is in North Jersey and others are in South jersey. If you live near the main hospital and get a rotation site in Jersey shore, your drive could be an hour. I don't know the status of the school provided housing down south. This is a huge hassle in my opinion.
- The preclinical education leaves significant room for improvement. This is a new school, so the in house educational materials are still being made. Finally, everything is in person which is a pain.
- clerkships could be better learning in my view but I feel like clerkships are hit or miss everywhere in the country.
- there are no home programs for many competitive specialities. You really rely on those programs for support when applying.
- the admins make unforced errors on occasion but I'm sure that will improve with experience
5. Manhattan is very accessible.
6. Hard to answer that.
Last edited:
