Class of 2021 . . . how ya doin?

[Coopah]

It is almost 10pm. I must be awake in eight hours. I have just finished my records for the day. I also must now relearn how to do a dental before my procedure tomorrow. Wish me luck.

It went great. We took out 14 teeth!

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[Lupin21]

Feeling like I don't have my life together as soooo many classmates (with the exception of those pursuing internships) sound like they know where they're going or have job offers and I'm just like... here, I guess.

I didn't start job hunting til after I graduated. Don't worry about it. I didn't end up deciding GP and general area I wanted to look til the very last month of clinics. I started setting up interviews in that area for the week after I graduated. Spent a week and a half interviewing, then had a job by June and started in July. Everyone has to feel out their own paths, and sometimes it takes a little more light, even being clear from the end of the tunnel to make those decisions. haha

 

[Trilt]

I didn't start job hunting til after I graduated. Don't worry about it. I didn't end up deciding GP and general area I wanted to look til the very last month of clinics. I started setting up interviews in that area for the week after I graduated. Spent a week and a half interviewing, then had a job by June and started in July. Everyone has to feel out their own paths, and sometimes it takes a little more light, even being clear from the end of the tunnel to make those decisions. haha

Ditto. I also only started looking after graduation, frankly just because I wanted to take a break. Interviewed for a couple weeks and started in mid August after some fab relaxation.

 

[SkiOtter]

But how did you pay bills those extra two/three months

 

[Lupin21]

But how did you pay bills those extra two/three months

I had taken out enough to cover that for 4th year knowing that I probably needed extra 3-4 months depending.

 

[Lupin21]

I had taken out enough to cover that for 4th year knowing that I probably needed extra 3-4 months depending.

* most internships/residencies don't start until July either, so this should always be planned financially one way or another

 

[cdo96]

* most internships/residencies don't start until July either, so this should always be planned financially one way or another

Ah see, all of the ones I’m looking at start in mid June so I’m just like.... no... break please

 

[Lupin21]

Ah see, all of the ones I’m looking at start in mid June so I’m just like.... no... break please

As official start date or just learning the ropes? If I recall, July 1 was official start date across the board to make it easy to transition new interns/residents each year.

 

[SkiOtter]

I had taken out enough to cover that for 4th year knowing that I probably needed extra 3-4 months depending.

Ahh
Some people are already at like max loan amount 😬

 

[Lupin21]

Ahh
Some people are already at like max loan amount

Gonna have to cover yourself somehow no matter what for the transition, so that definitely affects how you handle things. Paychecks don't usually show up day 1 either. haha

 

[SkiOtter]

Gonna have to cover yourself somehow no matter what for the transition, so that definitely affects how you handle things. Paychecks don't usually show up day 1 either. haha

Yes but a month vs like 3-4 months is different

 

[Lupin21]

Yes but a month vs like 3-4 months is different

definitely. Everyone has to adjust to their own situations. So if you know you have no way to survive for at least 3-4 months after graduation, you have to act accordingly.

 

[Lupin21]

Speaking of this, it is just like that span into being accepted into vet school and desperately awaiting that first loan disbursement. Circle of life. heh

 

[JaynaAli]

Ah see, all of the ones I’m looking at start in mid June so I’m just like.... no... break please

In my experience most internships start in mid June and the residencies start in mid July to allow for people to complete a full year at their internship then pack up and move before being expected to report for duty as a resident. That month between internship and residency was harder for me financially than the month between vet school and internship. When I graduated and was moving for internship I had received some cash as graduation presents, had some loan money left over, etc. but as an intern-turning-resident I had essentially no savings and had to find money for deposits and such in the new place. Thank goodness for generous parents and credit cards.

 

[genny]

It went great. We took out 14 teeth!
View attachment 324413

You know it’s a fun one when you don’t have to section the 2-rooted teeth.

 

[PippyPony]

Welp.

That test did not go well.

NAVLE people, if you read this, then let it be known that an honors ivy league MBA thinks your business questions are useless as heck

 

[battie]

NAVLE people, if you read this, then let it be known that an honors ivy league MBA thinks your business questions are useless as heck

I definitely let them know my mind on the appropriateness of their business questions. They were honestly the only questions I didnt feel were fair. And some of the ethics questions.

 

[cdo96]

Welp.

That test did not go well.

NAVLE people, if you read this, then let it be known that an honors ivy league MBA thinks your business questions are useless as heck

Yeah some of the business & ethics questions were wack.

 

[battie]

Yeah some of the business & ethics questions were wack.

I took 0 business classes. And I honestly feel like I wouldn't have been able to answer some of those even if I had -_-

 

[WildZoo]

Feeling like I don't have my life together as soooo many classmates (with the exception of those pursuing internships) sound like they know where they're going or have job offers and I'm just like... here, I guess.

The only people in my friend group who had started looking at places at this time last year were the two who were applying in the match. Couple others started sometime in the spring. I of course didn't do any of that (or even finish submitting my licensing paperwork lol) until right before graduation started my job in June

 

[Coopah]

You know it’s a fun one when you don’t have to section the 2-rooted teeth.

There's even a three root that didn't need to be sectioned

 

[genny]

There's even a three root that didn't need to be sectioned

I love it when the upper 09s pop out like that because they are my least favorite teeth to extract. My favorites are upper 08s and any 04s, and I got to do one of each in one dog today!

 

[Trilt]

I love it when the upper 09s pop out like that because they are my least favorite teeth to extract. My favorites are upper 08s and any 04s, and I got to do one of each in one dog today!

I'm only playing GP doc once a week right now (so not doing a ton of dentistry since the vet who scheduled ours usually does the procedure), and of course this was my last Tuesday:

In a freaking four year old yorkie, who I thankfully had the intense "tip of the iceberg, rads reveal more than oral exam, etc" type conversation vs. "yeah time for a prophy!" vibe, but still... bit of a butt pucker with that tiny jaw on both sides, ugh.

 

[Trilt]

I also really enjoy canine extractions... So satisfying to get the huge ass root out.

 

[genny]

I'm only playing GP doc once a week right now (so not doing a ton of dentistry since the vet who scheduled ours usually does the procedure), and of course this was my last Tuesday:




In a freaking four year old yorkie, who I thankfully had the intense "tip of the iceberg, rads reveal more than oral exam, etc" type conversation vs. "yeah time for a prophy!" vibe, but still... bit of a butt pucker with that tiny jaw on both sides, ugh.

Such pretty abscesses! I bet those came out beautifully.

 

[cohen2000]

Welp.

That test did not go well.

NAVLE people, if you read this, then let it be known that an honors ivy league MBA thinks your business questions are useless as heck

I'm convinced our business/communications professor wrote at least some of those questions

 

[Coopah]

I'm convinced our business/communications professor wrote at least some of those questions

In all actuality he probably did

 

[Cephal0pod]

Hiiii jumping in late to the Match discussion to note that one of the best pieces of advice I got last year was that just because you apply to a place doesn’t mean you have to rank them. You can use the interview process (if there is one) to help inform your decision making process regarding how and if you rank a hospital. Last year I applied to 10, ranked 9.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

How many patients do you guys see on average? I am always hearing about students in certain rotations that have multiple days of 0 patients and have to just sit in the lobby doing nothing for 12 hours. My roommate started IM on Monday and has had 1 yesterday and 1 today, but 0 Monday.

It just seems so wrong

 

[MixedAnimals77]

How many patients do you guys see on average? I am always hearing about students in certain rotations that have multiple days of 0 patients and have to just sit in the lobby doing nothing for 12 hours. My roommate started IM on Monday and has had 1 yesterday and 1 today, but 0 Monday.

It just seems so wrong

From my past experience working in the hospital before covid its definitely a covid thing-assessions are down across the board also because things just run slower with curbside. Hiwever it doesnt help when Inslee temporarily said nothing urgent or emergent again last week and then 24 hours later changed his mind after patients had been called. But @Caiter92 correct me if I'm wrong. As she would have better knowledge on case load at wsu
Eta: Just to be clear I'm not saying it right but probably a product more so of our current situation

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

From my past experience working in the hospital before covid its definitely a covid thing-assessions are down across the board also because things just run slower with curbside. Hiwever it doesnt help when Inslee temporarily said nothing urgent or emergent again last week and then 24 hours later changed his mind after patients had been called. But @Caiter92 correct me if I'm wrong. As she would have better knowledge on case load at wsu
Eta: Just to be clear I'm not saying it right but probably a product more so of our current situation

I don't know how much of it is the government mandate that you referenced, because at least as far as my roommate goes I've been hearing about the lack of patients ever since I came back at the end of the summer (I think she had an entire 2 or 3 for the whole equine med rotation?). If it's COVID in general that just surprises me because so many other hospitals are booming.

 

[MixedAnimals77]

I don't know how much of it is the government mandate that you referenced, because at least as far as my roommate goes I've been hearing about the lack of patients ever since I came back at the end of the summer (I think she had an entire 2 or 3 for the whole equine med rotation?). If it's COVID in general that just surprises me because so many other hospitals are booming.

I feel like eq definitely has its slower vs faster times of year with spring being pretty busy. I think the eqm is probably true to it's normal of how busy it is...that being said we scan records in the hospital every week and case loads have overall felt less chart wise compared to precovid with the exception of ecc they've been busy.
Internal med though my suspicion would be covid plus our location where lots of people have to travel to.
Being on the east side-we arent getting our canadian clients because the border is closed and I think fewer people are travelling unless they absolutely have to. That's my guess anyway.

 

[vetmedhead]

How many patients do you guys see on average? I am always hearing about students in certain rotations that have multiple days of 0 patients and have to just sit in the lobby doing nothing for 12 hours. My roommate started IM on Monday and has had 1 yesterday and 1 today, but 0 Monday.

It just seems so wrong

I obviously don't know the averages for WSU but we're pretty busy in CO. I'm seeing at least 2 patients a day plus consults on dermatology right now, and on the other services I've been on it's been anywhere from 2-4 patients a day depending on how busy it is (also consider that students are not fast, so if I were an actual more experienced doctor who didn't have to run treatment plans and PE findings past clinicians I would be seeing more). On our community practice rotation I was probably seeing ~4 patients a day. I only had one patient per day when I was in on clinics for anesthesia but that's because the procedures tend to be long and it's hard to be on time to a second case in the day (for example I had several 5-6 hour procedures).

 

[finnickthedog]

How many patients do you guys see on average? I am always hearing about students in certain rotations that have multiple days of 0 patients and have to just sit in the lobby doing nothing for 12 hours. My roommate started IM on Monday and has had 1 yesterday and 1 today, but 0 Monday.

It just seems so wrong

I would say 1-2 is typical but I've seen anywhere from 0-4 in a day. Aside from rehab when I technically saw a lot of patients (7-8) but they were there for treatments, not evaluation and they weren't assigned to any particular student we just all saw everything.

How many patients are seen depends a lot on what service it is, how many students are on it, and luck (eg a typically busy service can be slow when you're on it).

I aggressively spreadsheet my patients so I just went and did some quick math. I'm averaging about 1 new patient per day.

 

[battie]

How many patients do you guys see on average? I am always hearing about students in certain rotations that have multiple days of 0 patients and have to just sit in the lobby doing nothing for 12 hours. My roommate started IM on Monday and has had 1 yesterday and 1 today, but 0 Monday.

It just seems so wrong

For me, it's been varying based on the service and my juju. For a hot second, I was the student with the most cancellations/no-shows.

For internal med, I was an easy 3-4 patients a day between appointments and transfers. For surgery, it was 1 patient for appointment days, but I was in a team of two, so we had 2 patients in our team. Derm was 2 patients a day. Onco was 2-3, depending on consults. Neuro was 2-3 depending on consults. Cardio is averaging 1 right now. I don't think I have had a day of 0 patients. BUT! That is because I go for the consults now that I don't have NAVLE to study for, I'm jumping on consults instantly if I can to avoid sitting around. We also have inconsistent numbers on our services. There were only 4 people on neuro my block, but there are 6 this block for example. Meanwhile, ophtho has 9 (!) students and people are at school only every other day while at home the opposite days.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

How many patients do you guys see on average? I am always hearing about students in certain rotations that have multiple days of 0 patients and have to just sit in the lobby doing nothing for 12 hours. My roommate started IM on Monday and has had 1 yesterday and 1 today, but 0 Monday.

It just seems so wrong

2-8 lol

There was one week on neuro that I had cancellations by like every patient I was supposed to have but most of the time I’m too busy for my own good on clinics lol

 

[WildZoo]

You have to keep in mind a workup in academia is a lengthy process. Even pre-COVID with full schedules I usually personally had 1-2 patients a day on the specialty services and definitely had days where I didn't have a patient at all. If you follow that up the chain to the clinicians, they're still seeing a decent caseload for everything that needs to be done for each animal. Of course ER was a much higher caseload, and our community practice and exotics services run more like GP so those were usually higher too.

 

[battie]

Also keep in mind that people have to get the paperwork done and it is *extensive* (at least in our hospital). I spend almost more time doing the paperwork than I spend with the patient. Overall, between an exam and such and the paperwork, I would bet that I average 6-7 hours per patient overall. So 2 patients a day equals approximately 12-14 hour days. That doesn't all shake out to doing it all at once all in a row for days that are 14 hours long depending on when the paperwork was due.

So for Onco as an example: The paperwork would be due at 7 pm same day for patients that did not stay the night. Appointments started at 9 am. So I would have to do patient record review the night before (~1 hour), then get the full discharge with all diagnostics done by 7 pm (~3 hours, depending on how much we did). Can't put that all in though cause the bloodwork takes a few hours to come in, the rads take time to read out, etc etc. So there are hours where I'm waiting around, and then hours where I'm rushing to get everything done.

 

[WildZoo]

I distinctly remember waiting for hours for radiology when I was on Ortho. Only two rad rooms and a whole hospital to do imaging for so of course they would get behind sometimes, but man that sucked.

 

[finnickthedog]

Aside from going home for an hour to let my dogs out I was at the hospital for like 20 hours yesterday because I was on call and something came up before I even left followed by another thing. But hey, at least this earned me a day off. I have slept all day.

 

[cohen2000]

Does anyone know if the monthly NAVLE score reporting has been on a particular day of the month?

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Does anyone know if the monthly NAVLE score reporting has been on a particular day of the month?

My roommate said the 15th, but she got hers last month when it fell on the weekend so it came the next day.

 

[PippyPony]

All of these people who say they have/had days with zero patients... that's in-patients, right?

The most I've had so far is 12 in one day -- 4 in-patients (3 existing, one transfer) and 8 appointments. I've literally never had a day where I have had none. A few rotations have minimal paperwork (ambulatory, ophtho, anesthesia, diagnostic imaging) but that doesn't mean no cases.

I can't even imagine a day without patients on something like Small Animal Medicine. There are typically 8-10 new overnight transfers a day from ER, and that doesn't include appointments or long-term in-patients who are being transferred from other students when the rotation ends.


What's even the point of being there if there are no patients to see?

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

All of these people who say they have/had days with zero patients... that's in-patients, right?

The most I've had so far is 12 in one day -- 4 in-patients (3 existing, one transfer) and 8 appointments. I've literally never had a day where I have had none. A few rotations have minimal paperwork (ambulatory, ophtho, anesthesia, diagnostic imaging) but that doesn't mean no cases.

I can't even imagine a day without patients on something like Small Animal Medicine. There are typically 8-10 new overnight transfers a day from ER, and that doesn't include appointments or long-term in-patients who are being transferred from other students when the rotation ends.


What's even the point of being there if there are no patients to see?

No, downright 0 appointments. There might be *some* appointments that day but not every student gets one. Most of the services have an average of 4-5 appointments a day, but there might be 6-7 students on the rotation. The ortho service I was told intentionally leaves a day free each week in case of emergencies.

IM had a steady 3 in-patients each day during the this last week (not 3 new ones, but 3 total). Not sure what the normal in-patient quota is.

 

[PippyPony]

No, downright 0 appointments. There might be *some* appointments that day but not every student gets one. Most of the services have an average of 4-5 appointments a day, but there might be 6-7 students on the rotation. The ortho service I was told intentionally leaves a day free each week in case of emergencies.

Maybe the number of students is the difference -- we probably have an average of 3 students per week for each rotation. Max right now is probably 8-10 students each week for medicine, ECC and anesthesia, but the combined case load for each of those services is huge. For a more typical rotation like cardiology, we had 2 students, 2 faculty, 3 residents (2 core, 1 swing), 1 intern, and 3 dedicated techs on clinics.

Regardless, there has to be something to do in a hospital instead of sitting in the lobby for 12 hours at a time? Check on a patient, hold a dog for a classmate, help someone write their discharges, read an article and talk to a resident about it, stand in ER by the lab machines and offer to run blood work, etc etc.

I didn't have an assigned patient yesterday until 1pm, so in the morning, I stood in induction near a critical exotics patient on heat support to free up the resident/techs, helped put a catheter in a 70kg aggressive dog/prepped for surgery, checked up on my hospitalized cat patients from the day before, talked to the techs about their cases, and started my case work ups for Monday.

I've found that sometimes with this stuff, you've just got to make your own adventure.

And if that doesn't work, I'd advise your friend to talk to the administration or rotation director to let them know she is not getting the clinical training she is paying for/ask them if they can suggest ways to fill in the gaps.

 

[PippyPony]

Random comment:

I forgot my phone at home yesterday. After I got over the initial feeling of nakedness & momentary despair, it was one of the best days I've had on clinics so far. So freeing!

I think I might actually try to ditch it entirely for a while.

 

[finnickthedog]

Does anyone know if the monthly NAVLE score reporting has been on a particular day of the month?

They were both Mondays but I don't know if that's coincidence or intentional.

All of these people who say they have/had days with zero patients... that's in-patients, right?

The most I've had so far is 12 in one day -- 4 in-patients (3 existing, one transfer) and 8 appointments. I've literally never had a day where I have had none. A few rotations have minimal paperwork (ambulatory, ophtho, anesthesia, diagnostic imaging) but that doesn't mean no cases.

I can't even imagine a day without patients on something like Small Animal Medicine. There are typically 8-10 new overnight transfers a day from ER, and that doesn't include appointments or long-term in-patients who are being transferred from other students when the rotation ends.


What's even the point of being there if there are no patients to see?

I mean some days with literally no patients to see.

When I was on IM it was just slow for some reason. I can see the transfer board so I know IM typically gets like 4 transfers a day but when I was on it were lucky to get one. One of the days all 7 of us were on transfers rather than appointments because Fridays are just rechecks but there were only two transfers. So I had nothing.

Another day I was on appointments and my patient didn't show up (found out later it died).

As to there being no point in being there... well, yeah I agree. And on ortho they actually did send us all home--with two people on call--on the day there was one outpatient and no transfers. But a lot of the time we're just stuck there anyways--especially if it's just a couple people who don't have patients and not the entire service or if it's a service where things could easily get busy any minute so they need you there.

 

[SkiOtter]

All of these people who say they have/had days with zero patients... that's in-patients, right?

The most I've had so far is 12 in one day -- 4 in-patients (3 existing, one transfer) and 8 appointments. I've literally never had a day where I have had none. A few rotations have minimal paperwork (ambulatory, ophtho, anesthesia, diagnostic imaging) but that doesn't mean no cases.

I can't even imagine a day without patients on something like Small Animal Medicine. There are typically 8-10 new overnight transfers a day from ER, and that doesn't include appointments or long-term in-patients who are being transferred from other students when the rotation ends.


What's even the point of being there if there are no patients to see?

How do your guys appointments work if you can fit 8 appointments in yourself

 

[PippyPony]

How do your guys appointments work if you can fit 8 appointments in yourself

Some of them are 30 minute rechecks and some are longer new patient exams, and they take place from 9-4ish? I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

[SkiOtter]

Some of them are 30 minute rechecks and some are longer new patient exams, and they take place from 9-4ish? I'm not sure I understand the question.

Most schools it seems like you only get like 2-4 max appointments since things take 9 years at a teaching hospital between taking your history, discussing with your clinician (which you may have to wait for if they're busy), doing diagnostics, talking with the client, and then finally discharging the patient. Do you not do everything yourself and someone else takes the patient for diagnostics and you start a second appointment??? Or do things just move faster at tufts to get more people through?