COMP-Pomona vs TUNCOM

[GUH]

So I was pretty set on TUNCOM but got a last-minute call from COMP, which was the only school that I hadn't withdrawn my application from.

Now it comes down to these two. I feel absolutely blessed and want to make the best decision (although I'm sure either one would be great). Mostly I'm wondering if there are any major factors to consider that I haven't already come up with. Here's what I have so far:

COMP relative strengths:
Closer to family (approx. 2-hour drive) and current friends (approx. 45-minute drive)
More established
Honors/Pass/Fail (Very very much a plus for my preferences)

TUNCOM relative strengths:
Smaller class size (I like this a lot)
Location in Nevada (I really would like to leave California, for personal reasons)
No class on Fridays -> added flexibility

Unknowns: Rotation quality - although TUNCOM is the only medical school in the region and thus might have less competition?
Draws: Due to certain specific circumstances, cost is not a deciding factor.

Am I missing anything? Thanks

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[Mosonik]

I encourage you to look over some recent threads and discussions on H/P/F. I like you, preferred the idea of it to letter grades at first but after truly seeing it applied and compared I honestly don't feel this should even be a significant factor to consider since at the end of the day it sounds like it changes almost nothing.
Nevada also bordering California is nice so location really isn't a major deal for you.

Sounds like you have two good choices. I think your comfort level at the schools and consideration of whether class size matters to you should be major deciding points for choosing. I for one love the smaller more community oriented environment that TUNCOM would offer in comparison to COMP which is bigger class sizes and in a pretty densely populated area. Just personal preference on these though

 

[drshark]

Those are great choices! If your desire to leave CA overcomes your desire to stay super close to family then NV is a good option. From a few friends as COMP I've heard it's fairly disorganized, but i'd assume most med schools are to a certain extent. I don't know anyone at TUCOM so I cannot speak for them. The grading system at COMP does seem more favorable but then again of you earn a C or B it just looks like a Pass. Good luck in deciding, you have great options!

 

[medfreak1290]

Hey,

So I was in a similar situation. I had to decide between COMP-NW and TUNCOM.
I thought grading was a big deal but in the end I realized that rank matters more, so it's all the same anyway. The one thing I did like about TUNCOM over COMP is the lectures. At COMP, half of them would be streamed, and that isn't the situation at TUNCOM.

In the end, both schools are solid, and both will get you where you want to go. I decided on TUNCOM in the end.

 

[GUH]

So I need to make a decision this week and am currently leaning towards COMP. I've decided not to worry too much about the grading scheme.
Although I would much rather live in Nevada than California (especially the LA area), I've heard/read very positive reports of the quality of the rotations at COMP, specifically at Arrowhead. Valley Hospital MC might be okay but I just haven't heard very much one way or another.

My main holdups now are seeing if anyone has anything to say about their experiences rotating at Valley and also whether training at a teaching hospital full of residents will make it harder for me to get hands-on experience.

 

[docnotsopc]

So I need to make a decision this week and am currently leaning towards COMP. I've decided not to worry too much about the grading scheme.
Although I would much rather live in Nevada than California (especially the LA area), I've heard/read very positive reports of the quality of the rotations at COMP, specifically at Arrowhead. Valley Hospital MC might be okay but I just haven't heard very much one way or another.

My main holdups now are seeing if anyone has anything to say about their experiences rotating at Valley and also whether training at a teaching hospital full of residents will make it harder for me to get hands-on experience.

COMP student here. The grading scheme makes some student very competitive. I wish i pass/fail.... and this is coming from someone who did very well in the first 2 years. It adds a lot of unnecessary stress.

Rotations: I have no idea why pre-meds get the idea we have great rotation sites (I assume location of SoCal in general?). We have one good site, Arrowhead (although its very far out East as you know). The rest of our rotations are at older, smaller hospitals. No guarantee you will get Arrowhead sites, but its possible. Internal Med at Arrowhead was very popular for my class and thus harder to trade for. Arrowhead is by far our best, and there are now SGU caribbean students showing up more often. Its either Loma Linda or UC-Riverside who will be rotating there soon... I think UCR? So I would be shocked if we weren't sending less students there in the future.

One advantage that we have now (my class being the first) is that we have TWO electives third year. They took away 2 weeks of peds and 2 weeks of OBGYN, so we could do a 2nd elective 3rd year. This is good or bad depending when you get your electives from the lottery. If they are at the end of 3rd year, you are golden! But if you get them first, they are kind of a waste since you have zero experience and any decent places wont take you. Touro Nevada to my knowledge does not have mandatory OMM rotation, we do. This may sound good, but the vast majority of DO students end up not liking OMM. So to most of my class, having to do an OMM rotation is brutal. To a few people, they love it. At this point, without knowing any OMM you may not like it in the long run. Keep that in mind (and its ok).

Finally Western as a whole. The moral is low. The area is super unsafe, we had a bullet in our window earlier this year. Cars get broken into etc. The technology fails all the time. The curriculum is horrible, hence why our board scores keep getting worse every year. There is a laundry list of problems, BUT they have been fixing them so things keep getting better. For example, the class after me (the now 1st years going into 2nd year) all got Kaplan board review videos. They have also improved some of the courses given how much my class complained. Also, we talked to the dean about removing some of the useless classes at the end of second year (Geriatrics, peds, Emergency medicine) or putting them earlier in the year so that we have more time to study for boards. (as of right now we get 4 weeks, but the month coming up to board studying time is super packed so no one can study). This puts us at a massive disadvantage to local MD schools. UCI gets 8 weeks off. USC has a review course for 6-7 weeks where they get every friday off and off at noon most days.... plus i think 5? or 6? weeks of dedicated study time for boards with no classes. Remember, if you want to stay in SoCal you are competing with these kids. The only school that has a similar study time period to us is Loma Linda, but they have much better professors teaching pathophysiology.

One thing I do really worry about for upcoming classes..... we had an AMAZING 2nd year clinical professor. Very knowledgable and makes you learn with tough love. He is retiring this year or next, so you wouldn't have him. The professor who will be taking over is horrible. He is disrespectful towards students and quite honestly no where near as knowledgable as the one retiring. I can tell you that most of my class is prepared for rotations because of the man retiring and ONLY because of him. Our first year clinical learning was horrible, we learned nothing. But yet, this man in one year got us prepared.

 

[GUH]

COMP student here. The grading scheme makes some student very competitive. I wish i pass/fail.... and this is coming from someone who did very well in the first 2 years. It adds a lot of unnecessary stress.

Rotations: I have no idea why pre-meds get the idea we have great rotation sites (I assume location of SoCal in general?). We have one good site, Arrowhead (although its very far out East as you know). The rest of our rotations are at older, smaller hospitals. No guarantee you will get Arrowhead sites, but its possible. Internal Med at Arrowhead was very popular for my class and thus harder to trade for. Arrowhead is by far our best, and there are now SGU caribbean students showing up more often. Its either Loma Linda or UC-Riverside who will be rotating there soon... I think UCR? So I would be shocked if we weren't sending less students there in the future.

One advantage that we have now (my class being the first) is that we have TWO electives third year. They took away 2 weeks of peds and 2 weeks of OBGYN, so we could do a 2nd elective 3rd year. This is good or bad depending when you get your electives from the lottery. If they are at the end of 3rd year, you are golden! But if you get them first, they are kind of a waste since you have zero experience and any decent places wont take you. Touro Nevada to my knowledge does not have mandatory OMM rotation, we do. This may sound good, but the vast majority of DO students end up not liking OMM. So to most of my class, having to do an OMM rotation is brutal. To a few people, they love it. At this point, without knowing any OMM you may not like it in the long run. Keep that in mind (and its ok).

Finally Western as a whole. The moral is low. The area is super unsafe, we had a bullet in our window earlier this year. Cars get broken into etc. The technology fails all the time. The curriculum is horrible, hence why our board scores keep getting worse every year. There is a laundry list of problems, BUT they have been fixing them so things keep getting better. For example, the class after me (the now 1st years going into 2nd year) all got Kaplan board review videos. They have also improved some of the courses given how much my class complained. Also, we talked to the dean about removing some of the useless classes at the end of second year (Geriatrics, peds, Emergency medicine) or putting them earlier in the year so that we have more time to study for boards. (as of right now we get 4 weeks, but the month coming up to board studying time is super packed so no one can study). This puts us at a massive disadvantage to local MD schools. UCI gets 8 weeks off. USC has a review course for 6-7 weeks where they get every friday off and off at noon most days.... plus i think 5? or 6? weeks of dedicated study time for boards with no classes. Remember, if you want to stay in SoCal you are competing with these kids. The only school that has a similar study time period to us is Loma Linda, but they have much better professors teaching pathophysiology.

One thing I do really worry about for upcoming classes..... we had an AMAZING 2nd year clinical professor. Very knowledgable and makes you learn with tough love. He is retiring this year or next, so you wouldn't have him. The professor who will be taking over is horrible. He is disrespectful towards students and quite honestly no where near as knowledgable as the one retiring. I can tell you that most of my class is prepared for rotations because of the man retiring and ONLY because of him. Our first year clinical learning was horrible, we learned nothing. But yet, this man in one year got us prepared.

Thanks for the very straightforward review. On average, how many rotations does a student get to do at ARMC? TUNCOM already has two elective third-year rotations. I still don't know very much about the quality of rotations at Valley Hospital and their other sites.

 

[bajastapler]

What up Guh,

I'm in the same boat as you and almost started a western vs tuncom thread myself. I originally had set my eyes on TUNCOM, but I flip-flopped and now I'll probably take Western.

IMO, TUNCOM wins at every aspect except clinical rotations. Well I shouldn't say that Western has better sites than TUNCOM b/c I won't know until I've been through it. But I do feel pretty confident saying that your chances of securing quality rotations are better at Western.

I'm sure both schools - hell I'm sure ALL DO/MD schools - suck in some aspect. At least Western is open about their rotation sites. Touro, on the other hand, comes off vague. Almost a, "don't worry bro. We'll get you spots," attitude. During the interview process, Touro was very vague about where students would be rotating. Also, try lurking their website about the clinical education. Vague. If I'm going to be shelling over 50k+ for an education, then I should at least have an idea of where I'll be rotating.

Now, I know one should never judge a school based off its match list. I agree, it's dumb. It's an incomplete picture. But here is one thing I took strong note of (I compared 2012 match lists since TUNCOM hasn't released their 2013 yet). Notice the number of graduates that matched in traditional 1 year rotating internships at TUNCOM vs the number of graduates at Western. TUNCOM has ALOT more students matching into 1 year internships, which IMO is not desirable. Again, I'm not saying this gives a complete picture of whats going on, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that matching >>> 1 year rotation >>>> not matching.

Now don't get me wrong, I have my doubts about Western. At the end of the day, however, I want to go where I have the best chance of being put in a position of success.

Just to be fair here's a short list of things about Western that worry me:
- Competition from local medical schools
- Increased class size
- Increased cost of tuition with decreased availability of resources (B/c we share with COMP-NW)
- The hidden cost of having to drive around to rotations.
- The lost time driving to rotation sites.
- And last, but certainly not least, stabbings per capita.

But even with all that you can't deny this: being a medical student in Southern California is a very advantageous position to be in. You have UCLA, which to my knowledge lets DO students rotate, the Kaisers, and a plethora of other hospitals in the region. Now I'm not saying that just b/c you rotate at a hospital they will automatically take you on for residency. B/c that is a lie and as a DO student I refuse to believe I am special and can break the glass ceiling. What I will say though is that I'm sure all hospitals in the So-cal region have taken on at least 1 Western student as a resident. They know Western COMP exists. TUNCOM? Never heard of it.

(EDIT)
TLDR:
IMO, western wins because I believe they offer a better chance at me getting quality rotations. Furthermore, I am very interested in staying in So-Cal for both residency and a career. Everything else about Western, I imagine, sucks. :X

 

[Ochemlover45]

What up Guh,

I'm in the same boat as you and almost started a western vs tuncom thread myself. I originally had set my eyes on TUNCOM, but I flip-flopped and now I'll probably take Western.

IMO, TUNCOM wins at every aspect except clinical rotations. Well I shouldn't say that Western has better sites than TUNCOM b/c I won't know until I've been through it. But I do feel pretty confident saying that your chances of securing quality rotations are better at Western.

I'm sure both schools - hell I'm sure ALL DO/MD schools - suck in some aspect. At least Western is open about their rotation sites. Touro, on the other hand, comes off vague. Almost a, "don't worry bro. We'll get you spots," attitude. During the interview process, Touro was very vague about where students would be rotating. Also, try lurking their website about the clinical education. Vague. If I'm going to be shelling over 50k+ for an education, then I should at least have an idea of where I'll be rotating.

Now, I know one should never judge a school based off its match list. I agree, it's dumb. It's an incomplete picture. But here is one thing I took strong note of (I compared 2012 match lists since TUNCOM hasn't released their 2013 yet). Notice the number of graduates that matched in traditional 1 year rotating internships at TUNCOM vs the number of graduates at Western. TUNCOM has ALOT more students matching into 1 year internships, which IMO is not desirable. Again, I'm not saying this gives a complete picture of whats going on, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that matching >>> 1 year rotation >>>> not matching.

Now don't get me wrong, I have my doubts about Western. At the end of the day, however, I want to go where I have the best chance of being put in a position of success.

Just to be fair here's a short list of things about Western that worry me:
- Competition from local medical schools
- Increased class size
- Increased cost of tuition with decreased availability of resources (B/c we share with COMP-NW)
- The hidden cost of having to drive around to rotations.
- The lost time driving to rotation sites.
- And last, but certainly not least, stabbings per capita.

But even with all that you can't deny this: being a medical student in Southern California is a very advantageous position to be in. You have UCLA, which to my knowledge lets DO students rotate, the Kaisers, and a plethora of other hospitals in the region. Now I'm not saying that just b/c you rotate at a hospital they will automatically take you on for residency. B/c that is a lie and as a DO student I refuse to believe I am special and can break the glass ceiling. What I will say though is that I'm sure all hospitals in the So-cal region have taken on at least 1 Western student as a resident. They know Western COMP exists. TUNCOM? Never heard of it.

(EDIT)
TLDR:
IMO, western wins because I believe they offer a better chance at me getting quality rotations. Furthermore, I am very interested in staying in So-Cal for both residency and a career. Everything else about Western, I imagine, sucks. :X

I don't think matching into a traditional year is bad. There are plenty of programs that do not offer a traditional year and require residents to do them elsewhere.

 

[bajastapler]

I don't think matching into a traditional year is bad. There are plenty of programs that do not offer a traditional year and require residents to do them elsewhere.

I agree that plenty of programs do not offer the 1st year. For instance, I'm interested in PM and R. I know that alot of PM and R residencies don't offer a 1st year.

But that being said, if I had a choice between a categorical position vs taking on a traditional year and re-applying, I would easily choose the categorical. Check out this article, I found it interesting and relative
.
http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?p=132581

 

[drshark]

COMP student here. The grading scheme makes some student very competitive. I wish i pass/fail.... and this is coming from someone who did very well in the first 2 years. It adds a lot of unnecessary stress.

Rotations: I have no idea why pre-meds get the idea we have great rotation sites (I assume location of SoCal in general?). We have one good site, Arrowhead (although its very far out East as you know). The rest of our rotations are at older, smaller hospitals. No guarantee you will get Arrowhead sites, but its possible. Internal Med at Arrowhead was very popular for my class and thus harder to trade for. Arrowhead is by far our best, and there are now SGU caribbean students showing up more often. Its either Loma Linda or UC-Riverside who will be rotating there soon... I think UCR? So I would be shocked if we weren't sending less students there in the future.

One advantage that we have now (my class being the first) is that we have TWO electives third year. They took away 2 weeks of peds and 2 weeks of OBGYN, so we could do a 2nd elective 3rd year. This is good or bad depending when you get your electives from the lottery. If they are at the end of 3rd year, you are golden! But if you get them first, they are kind of a waste since you have zero experience and any decent places wont take you. Touro Nevada to my knowledge does not have mandatory OMM rotation, we do. This may sound good, but the vast majority of DO students end up not liking OMM. So to most of my class, having to do an OMM rotation is brutal. To a few people, they love it. At this point, without knowing any OMM you may not like it in the long run. Keep that in mind (and its ok).

Finally Western as a whole. The moral is low. The area is super unsafe, we had a bullet in our window earlier this year. Cars get broken into etc. The technology fails all the time. The curriculum is horrible, hence why our board scores keep getting worse every year. There is a laundry list of problems, BUT they have been fixing them so things keep getting better. For example, the class after me (the now 1st years going into 2nd year) all got Kaplan board review videos. They have also improved some of the courses given how much my class complained. Also, we talked to the dean about removing some of the useless classes at the end of second year (Geriatrics, peds, Emergency medicine) or putting them earlier in the year so that we have more time to study for boards. (as of right now we get 4 weeks, but the month coming up to board studying time is super packed so no one can study). This puts us at a massive disadvantage to local MD schools. UCI gets 8 weeks off. USC has a review course for 6-7 weeks where they get every friday off and off at noon most days.... plus i think 5? or 6? weeks of dedicated study time for boards with no classes. Remember, if you want to stay in SoCal you are competing with these kids. The only school that has a similar study time period to us is Loma Linda, but they have much better professors teaching pathophysiology.

One thing I do really worry about for upcoming classes..... we had an AMAZING 2nd year clinical professor. Very knowledgable and makes you learn with tough love. He is retiring this year or next, so you wouldn't have him. The professor who will be taking over is horrible. He is disrespectful towards students and quite honestly no where near as knowledgable as the one retiring. I can tell you that most of my class is prepared for rotations because of the man retiring and ONLY because of him. Our first year clinical learning was horrible, we learned nothing. But yet, this man in one year got us prepared.

I have heard some of this from a few old classmates that now attend western. I blew it off but reading this makes me worry. Thank you for your honesty.

 

[docnotsopc]

Touro, on the other hand, comes off vague. Almost a, "don't worry bro. We'll get you spots," attitude. During the interview process, Touro was very vague about where students would be rotating. Also, try lurking their website about the clinical education. Vague. If I'm going to be shelling over 50k+ for an education, then I should at least have an idea of where I'll be rotating.


IMO, western wins because I believe they offer a better chance at me getting quality rotations. Furthermore, I am very interested in staying in So-Cal for both residency and a career. Everything else about Western, I imagine, sucks. :X

Again, Western student here. Where are you getting this info that Western will have better chances at quality sites? Its just simply not true. We have Psych at UCLA but its unlikely to get as everyone wants to rotate at UCLA and to be honest, just because it has UCLA in the title doesn't mean its impressive (it is psych after all). As I mentioned above, Arrowhead is our only really strong site. Students can expect 2-3 rotations there. If you really want more, im sure you can get more. After all there are rotations tracks 3rd year with almost all Arrowhead, but they are popular and there are only so many (maybe 10 people will get this out of 200 students although not everyone wants it obviously). For 3rd year, we rank rotation tracks/combinations (For example I want OBGYN at Arrowhead than Peds at ____ than elective at ____). The thing thats brutal is that rotations are bunched in groups of 3 called "blocks" and we have no control over that. So within a 3 month block everyone does OBGYN/Peds/ elective.....another block Surgery/Family med/ Internal Med etc . Again its all a lottery people apply for and rank. There was intense drama and backstabbing this year as people were screwing over their own friends to get their track of choice. As a result, more people than necessary did not get their track of choice.

Now heres where Western is very similar to Touro in this "Vagueness". Many tracks/combinations have yellow blocks which means if you get that track, the school will assign you a random hospital for that rotation (ie a yellow surgery. They can put you anywhere). Students have no say really in where they go. Also, the school cancels rotations all the time on students and they get reassigned to less desirable sites. There was a person in the class above us who got accepted to an Oregon track for 3rd year. Moved to oregon. Western cancelled who track few days before they were supposed to start and reassigned them a random track in SoCal. Expenses were obviously not reimbursed by the school.

I sat with a few Touro students at a conference this semester and we naturally compared curriculums/experiences out of curiosity. Believe me their rotation sites are just as good as ours as far at the teaching goes. PLUS they dont have mandatory OMM rotation. Think of it this way, should you end up falling into the majority of the class, which doesn like OMM, you will be forced to do a rotation you dont like. If you went to Touro, either way you are set. If you dont like OMM, you arent forced into it for a month. If you like OMM, you can use your elective in 3rd year to do one. Also I think TOuro has more surgery than Western? Not certain though

 

[GUH]

Again, Western student here. Where are you getting this info that Western will have better chances at quality sites? Its just simply not true. We have Psych at UCLA but its unlikely to get as everyone wants to rotate at UCLA and to be honest, just because it has UCLA in the title doesn't mean its impressive (it is psych after all). As I mentioned above, Arrowhead is our only really strong site. Students can expect 2-3 rotations there. If you really want more, im sure you can get more. After all there are rotations tracks 3rd year with almost all Arrowhead, but they are popular and there are only so many (maybe 10 people will get this out of 200 students although not everyone wants it obviously). For 3rd year, we rank rotation tracks/combinations (For example I want OBGYN at Arrowhead than Peds at ____ than elective at ____). The thing thats brutal is that rotations are bunched in groups of 3 called "blocks" and we have no control over that. So within a 3 month block everyone does OBGYN/Peds/ elective.....another block Surgery/Family med/ Internal Med etc . Again its all a lottery people apply for and rank. There was intense drama and backstabbing this year as people were screwing over their own friends to get their track of choice. As a result, more people than necessary did not get their track of choice.

Now heres where Western is very similar to Touro in this "Vagueness". Many tracks/combinations have yellow blocks which means if you get that track, the school will assign you a random hospital for that rotation (ie a yellow surgery. They can put you anywhere). Students have no say really in where they go. Also, the school cancels rotations all the time on students and they get reassigned to less desirable sites. There was a person in the class above us who got accepted to an Oregon track for 3rd year. Moved to oregon. Western cancelled who track few days before they were supposed to start and reassigned them a random track in SoCal. Expenses were obviously not reimbursed by the school.

I sat with a few Touro students at a conference this semester and we naturally compared curriculums/experiences out of curiosity. Believe me their rotation sites are just as good as ours as far at the teaching goes. PLUS they dont have mandatory OMM rotation. Think of it this way, should you end up falling into the majority of the class, which doesn like OMM, you will be forced to do a rotation you dont like. If you went to Touro, either way you are set. If you dont like OMM, you arent forced into it for a month. If you like OMM, you can use your elective in 3rd year to do one. Also I think TOuro has more surgery than Western? Not certain though

Thank you for taking the time to answer... hopefully future generations can use this information. I already placed a deposit down at Western last week though. It sounds like there are good and bad outcomes possible at either school so in the end it looks like neither one really wins out over the other. I had almost zero specific information regarding rotation site quality at Valley and the other Vegas-area sites before my deposit was due (maybe I should've looked harder)? It could've been great or not so great but it was just too much of an unknown.

 

[JoAyi]

I sat with a few Touro students at a conference this semester and we naturally compared curriculums/experiences out of curiosity. Believe me their rotation sites are just as good as ours as far at the teaching goes. PLUS they dont have mandatory OMM rotation. Think of it this way, should you end up falling into the majority of the class, which doesn like OMM, you will be forced to do a rotation you dont like. If you went to Touro, either way you are set. If you dont like OMM, you arent forced into it for a month. If you like OMM, you can use your elective in 3rd year to do one. Also I think TOuro has more surgery than Western? Not certain though

Which Touro? Nevada or California?