Einstein MSTP vs Stony Brook MSTP

[Patros]

So my application cycle draws to an end with this decision: AECOM MD/PhD vs Stony Brook-CSHL MD/PhD. My goal is to become a translational cancer researcher and oncologist, and I plan on pursuing graduate studies in molecular genetics or tumorogenesis. Both places are affiliated with NCI-designated cancer centers (AECOM has a research-only center, and Stony is affiliated with Cold Spring Harbor), so I should be able to reach that goal through either place.

In previous threads, people generally say Einstein is pricy, but note that finances are not an issue since I'm guaranteed a full tuition waver and a stipend. So besides that, if anyone can give any insight into strengths or weaknesses of either institution relative to each other, I would appreciate it. In fact, I am looking more for advice on the clinical aspects; I'll inquire more on the research side in the physician scientists subforum.

I need to make the decision by April 30th, so here's what I know so far:

Einstein
Pros:
-More highly ranked on most rankings, for whatever that's worth
-Much larger research enterprise, much more NIH funding and is a CTSA institution
-Neighborhood seems more lively, and seems pretty safe
-Larger cohort (yay, friends!)
-Impressive match list for the MSTPs, generally going to fancy shmancy places, most commonly NYP, H-UPenn, and Yale-NH, (and a bunch to the tippy-top places like MGH, UCSF, JHU and so on)
-Administration looks really good, looks like they really keep on top of their students
-P/F grading for preclinicals
-Clinicals should be very good, lots of work with NYC's lower-income populace in Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan or LI
Cons:
-I'm getting a very culturally-Jewish vibe, is that ever noticeable for current students?
-Potentially higher cost of living
-It's a nice part of the Bronx, but well, it's the Bronx
-Long average program duration, average is >8 years

Stony Brook University
Pros:
-Cold Spring Harbor. It's the most elegant and inviting research institution I have ever seen. It's a small place, but the research is super cutting-edge, it seems like everyone here is trying to reinvent biology
-It's expanding at an incredible rate. They literally hired hundreds of new faculty over the past few years and are building a new cancer center
-Neighborhood is peaceful, probably won't get shot in these parts
-Higher chance of graduating on-time (not sure if noticeable though)
Cons:
-Neighborhood is a snooze-fest, not sure I want to spend my 20's in Suffolk county
-Cohort tends to draw more locals, less cultural and geographic diversity in the student body
-Not really famous on the national stage (yet)
-Worried about getting varied clinical training in Suffolk county
-Campus isn't very pretty. The HSC looks like a lego building, and it's under constant construction
-The match list is decent, but not as impressive as Einstein's. If I'm making an 8-year investment, I want a spectacular match list

I'm leaning heavily toward Einstein now, what do you think?

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[cyberchicken001]

So my application cycle draws to an end with this decision: AECOM MD/PhD vs Stony Brook-CSHL MD/PhD. My goal is to become a translational cancer researcher and oncologist, and I plan on pursuing graduate studies in molecular genetics or tumorogenesis. Both places are affiliated with NCI-designated cancer centers (AECOM has a research-only center, and Stony is affiliated with Cold Spring Harbor), so I should be able to reach that goal through either place.

In previous threads, people generally say Einstein is pricy, but note that finances are not an issue since I'm guaranteed a full tuition waver and a stipend. So besides that, if anyone can give any insight into strengths or weaknesses of either institution relative to each other, I would appreciate it. In fact, I am looking more for advice on the clinical aspects; I'll inquire more on the research side in the physician scientists subforum.

I need to make the decision by April 30th, so here's what I know so far:

Einstein
Pros:
-More highly ranked on most rankings, for whatever that's worth
-Much larger research enterprise, much more NIH funding and is a CTSA institution
-Neighborhood seems more lively, and seems pretty safe
-Larger cohort (yay, friends!)
-Impressive match list for the MSTPs, generally going to fancy shmancy places, most commonly NYP, H-UPenn, and Yale-NH, (and a bunch to the tippy-top places like MGH, UCSF, JHU and so on)
-Administration looks really good, looks like they really keep on top of their students
-P/F grading for preclinicals
-Clinicals should be very good, lots of work with NYC's lower-income populace in Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan or LI
Cons:
-I'm getting a very culturally-Jewish vibe, is that ever noticeable for current students?
-Potentially higher cost of living
-It's a nice part of the Bronx, but well, it's the Bronx
-Long average program duration, average is >8 years

Stony Brook University
Pros:
-Cold Spring Harbor. It's the most elegant and inviting research institution I have ever seen. It's a small place, but the research is super cutting-edge, it seems like everyone here is trying to reinvent biology
-It's expanding at an incredible rate. They literally hired hundreds of new faculty over the past few years and are building a new cancer center
-Neighborhood is peaceful, probably won't get shot in these parts
-Higher chance of graduating on-time (not sure if noticeable though)
Cons:
-Neighborhood is a snooze-fest, not sure I want to spend my 20's in Suffolk county
-Cohort tends to draw more locals, less cultural and geographic diversity in the student body
-Not really famous on the national stage (yet)
-Worried about getting varied clinical training in Suffolk county
-Campus isn't very pretty. The HSC looks like a lego building, and it's under constant construction
-The match list is decent, but not as impressive as Einstein's. If I'm making an 8-year investment, I want a spectacular match list

I'm leaning heavily toward Einstein now, what do you think?

Ha I couldn't get past the part where you call it being Jewish a con... But it is a Jewish institution with a good deal of Jewish students so if that kind of thing bothers you....

Anyway, I faced a similar choice for MD and I think they're both really good schools. Cost aside, I chose einstein just because of my own personal preferences and learning style (true P/F, no mandatory lectures, everything online) but at that point it's up to you. Sounds like you're leaning towards einstein though as well. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Patros]

Ha I couldn't get past the part where you call it being Jewish a con... But it is a Jewish institution with a good deal of Jewish students so if that kind of thing bothers you....

Anyway, I faced a similar choice for MD and I think they're both really good schools. Cost aside, I chose einstein just because of my own personal preferences and learning style (true P/F, no mandatory lectures, everything online) but at that point it's up to you. Sounds like you're leaning towards einstein though as well. Good luck with your decision.

Online lectures sounds like a plus for sure. And don't get me wrong with my question on the Jewish atmosphere, I don't feel uncomfortable at all with going to a Jewish school. But since you're a student, let me ask:

1) Are there any school-specific requirements, like taking classes on Judaism?
2) Are facilities closed or inaccessible during Sabbath or religious holidays?

I know that Einstein says it's nonsectarian, so I assume they don't mandate anything.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Sounds like you're leaning towards Einstein. The only thing I would consider a true negative on that list is the longer than average graduation time, but how much longer are we talking? >8 years could mean anything from 8.5 years (not a dealbreaker) to 11+ years (definitely a dealbreaker). I would reach out to the program directors to ask them to comment-- maybe this average is due to one person who took 5 years off for health/family/whatever reason. If it's a small program, the average can easily be thrown off by one person like that.

There is also an MSTP-specific forum on SDN (scroll pretty far down on the "Forums" page and you'll find it) where you will get people who know a lot more about MSTPs.

 

[Member011]

Like you said, you can probably do good research in your field at either institution, but did you notice that one school's department more closely matched your research interests over the other?

 

[Patros]

Sounds like you're leaning towards Einstein. The only thing I would consider a true negative on that list is the longer than average graduation time, but how much longer are we talking? >8 years could mean anything from 8.5 years (not a dealbreaker) to 11+ years (definitely a dealbreaker). I would reach out to the program directors to ask them to comment-- maybe this average is due to one person who took 5 years off for health/family/whatever reason. If it's a small program, the average can easily be thrown off by one person like that.

There is also an MSTP-specific forum on SDN (scroll pretty far down on the "Forums" page and you'll find it) where you will get people who know a lot more about MSTPs.

On a closer look, the graduation time is about the same. Einstein says 8.1, Stony Brook says 8, so I guess there's no difference. Of course, the programs tend to screw with the numbers to make them look smaller, so I think I'll do what you say and directly ask the program director during revisit. Thanks!

Like you said, you can probably do good research in your field at either institution, but did you notice that one school's department more closely matched your research interests over the other?

Well, Einstein has more PIs by sheer numbers due to their cancer center, so I am more easily able to find potential mentors that align with my interests (cancer genetics). SBU's main selling point to me is CSHL, because it is such a pretty place. However, there are much fewer PIs working in very niche fields. So honestly, I have no idea which would be a better research environment.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

If you do ask, just make sure to phrase it in a tactful way, I wouldn't pointblank ask, why does it take your students so long to graduate?

8.1 vs 8 years is not a negligible difference and I honestly wouldn't even consider this very much in my decision anymore.

 

[cyberchicken001]

Online lectures sounds like a plus for sure. And don't get me wrong with my question on the Jewish atmosphere, I don't feel uncomfortable at all with going to a Jewish school. But since you're a student, let me ask:

1) Are there any school-specific requirements, like taking classes on Judaism?
2) Are facilities closed or inaccessible during Sabbath or religious holidays?

I know that Einstein says it's nonsectarian, so I assume they don't mandate anything.

Well actually I'm only an incoming student, but I can tell you for a fact there are no mandatory classes on Judaism. I'm not sure what is closed on Saturday, but I think I remember hearing that the library is not open... Might want to double check that with a current student though