GGoats ThWWee: Here It GGoats Again - GAME THREAD

[samac]

---

Members don't see this ad.

So is it worth going down the mads/Dubz route until mads flips?

 

[Zenge142]

Why did mads vote fruit then and not Dubz if both are town? If I were scum and could vote between 2 competing town wagons and whomever I vote is absolutely the lim…I’d see that there’s clearly a lot of sus on fruit, a newer player that has no connections in the game vs Dubz who had more meta than everyone else in the players and has more friends to support her. I’d absolutely be voting Dubz every time in that scenario. So mads voting fruit makes zero sense to me. At all.

Or maybe Mads just… ya know… picked one in the moment.

You’re applying the hindsight 20/20 game analysis to Mads's in the moment decision, and then using that to argue Dubz is obviously a wolf.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[GreedyBanger]

I'll accept both that explanation on the WZ omitted from reads list and the 3 vils will die comment. I will not accept the post hoc justification of the decision between WZ and Fruit when it's not at all how town Mads made decisions last game in similar circumstances

 

[samac]

I feel like we’re going to get lost in the weeds when there’s likely at least one more scum out there.

 

[KayJayQueue]

So is it worth going down the mads/Dubz route until mads flips?

I’d like everyone’s opinion on it before it happens so no one can claim ignorance or be wishy washy before the fact and have an excuse after the fact.

 

[KayJayQueue]

I'll accept both that explanation on the WZ omitted from reads list and the 3 vils will die comment. I will not accept the post hoc justification of the decision between WZ and Fruit when it's not at all how town Mads made decisions last game in similar circumstances

This @Zenge142

 

[beans2020]

I mean I think there's some evidence pointing to mads and dubz. I don't know if it's enough to fully declare both of them wolves but I certainly want to follow this and see where it goes.
I still think there's something wolfy about sakura too.

 

[WildZoo]

YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS
I PUT MY VOTE ON HER
THE FIRST VOTE ON HER
AND LEFT THE THREAD

YOU JUST WANT ME IN CAPS LOCK DONT YOU

Yeah kinda

But no I agree, I don't see a world where you're paired

 

[Zenge142]

If I were scum

This is the most damning part of your entire argument against Dubz.

How long have you been playing?

How long has Mads been playing?

You’re saying because it’s what you would do, with the benefit of hindsight and time to think about it, then it’s what “Mads MUST have done, and thus Dubz must be a wolf! And there’s literally no other possibility! Fruit and Dubz couldn’t possibly both be village if Mads is a wolf!”

No. Just no.

This is not a reasonable argument to have Dubz at the bottom of your reads list. This is logically unsound.

 

[KayJayQueue]

This is the most damning part of your entire argument against Dubz.

How long have you been playing?

How long has Mads been playing?

You’re saying because it’s what you would do, with the benefit of hindsight and time to think about it, then it’s what “Mads MUST have done, and thus Dubz must be a wolf! And there’s literally no other possibility! Fruit and Dubz couldn’t possibly both be village if Mads is a wolf!”

No. Just no.

This is not a reasonable argument to have Dubz at the bottom of your reads list. This is logically unsound.

Mads and I have been here the same amount of time. We’ve been pretty aligned both previous games when we were both town. What she just did at EoD doesn’t line up with her previous town games.

 

[Zenge142]

This @Zenge142

Is not an inditement of Dubz

 

[KayJayQueue]

Also Dubz was at the bottom of my reads list BEFORE she even had a vote on her. I didn’t just conjure up a scumread at EoD to fit a narrative like you seem to be implying. I’m sorry I’m scumreading your friend but I feel fine with my current reads.

 

[KayJayQueue]

Is not an inditement of Dubz

It heavily implicates her but you don’t want to see that.

 

[WildZoo]

Also Dubz was at the bottom of my reads list BEFORE she even had a vote on her.

Hi yes I am acutely aware of this and would still like to know why

 

[Zenge142]

Mads and I have been here the same amount of time

But you had a lot of experience before playing here. Mads didn’t.

Why are you expecting Mads made the decision you think you would have, after having more time to think about it then Mads did. And then using that to justify a wolf read on Dubz? It’s NUTS

 

[Zenge142]

NUTS

🚨 Food tell 🚨

 

[Zenge142]

It heavily implicates her but you don’t want to see that.

BECAUSE IT LITERALLY DOESN’T

You’ve pre flipped two players and made an imaginary thought process in Madrigal’s head to justify it

 

[KayJayQueue]

But you had a lot of experience before playing here. Mads didn’t.

Why are you expecting Mads made the decision you think you would have, after having more time to think about it then Mads did. And then using that to justify a wolf read on Dubz? It’s NUTS

It’s not just about the decision she would make as scum, but the decision she would make as town. I just spoke about the scum reason because I believe she’s scum. If mads were town, she’d have voted Dubz there because of who else was voting there and THAT is absolutely backup up by previous games.

 

[beans2020]

well y'all I'm out for the night, will see you in the morning!

 

[GreedyBanger]

My PoE for the day is beans/lissa/PSV/samac/dubz. If there’s a good amount that won’t vote out new players or returning after long hiatus players, that leaves my PoE at PSV/samac/dubz

This is Kays progression as it happened.

 

[WildZoo]

Btw I feel like mads and sometimes vampy were still given some new player benefit of the doubt in their second game so I don’t like this excuse.

Especially when we had a literal scum game to compare to when trying to sort fruit here. Ugh. So frustrated about this.

I can't speak to that because I wasn't playing. I'm talking specifically about how I approached the list of people I was unwilling to vote out today.

I would not have given mads much leeway in her second game because she made it to f3 in her first. I don't feel like she was shielded much due to new player status from what I saw though? She just was being village read. Vampy I believe died early-ish in the practice game so I may have given her more time to breathe in her second game.

 

[GreedyBanger]

Thats for @WildZoo

And the unedited list is based on a mutual POE Kay and I made like this time last night. It wasn't out of nowhere

 

[WildZoo]

Thats for @WildZoo

And the unedited list is based on a mutual POE Kay and I made like this time last night. It wasn't out of nowhere

You do realize none of this actually answers my question, right?

 

[GreedyBanger]

You do realize none of this actually answers my question, right?

Your question was based on the assumption that you dropped down Kay's readslist when convenient, which is like demonstratable not the case. So I cannot answer your question because the question is flawed

 

[WildZoo]

Your question was based on the assumption that you dropped down Kay's readslist when convenient, which is like demonstratable not the case. So I cannot answer your question because the question is flawed

Oh I meant my other question, which was why

 

[Zenge142]

she’d have voted Dubz there because of who else was voting there and THAT is absolutely backup up by previous games.

Well that’s my favorite thing about Mafia, the ability to use dissimilar moments in past games to assume the rationale for split second decisions in current games, and then applying that flawed foundation of reasoning to preflip a completely different player.

 

[GreedyBanger]

Oh I meant my other question, which was whyI

Oh fair enough. That's for Kay again then

 

[WildZoo]

Thats for @WildZoo

And the unedited list is based on a mutual POE Kay and I made like this time last night. It wasn't out of nowhere

Though to get back to the other point, this is her list from earlier in the day, which, to be fair, was not stated to be ordered so KJQ's point about assuming I wasn't already at the bottom of the list is taken, I did indeed make that assumption because she had not directly talked about any reason to suspect me.

Okay sus-ish list is:

-genny
-clem
-psv
-dubz
-samac
-beans
-sakura
-lissa

I took the liberty of removing mads and mkg lol

The post you quoted and the list where she had me at the bottom with samac were both after I said I would be gone, so yes, it was surprising to me to come back to see you both pushing me as a top wolf suspect despite having many chances to interact with me all day and not voicing any level of suspicion then (besides general POE, which I accept because that is where I tend to live).

 

[KayJayQueue]

Oh I meant my other question, which was why

It started on Day 0 when you questioned me and greedy when I was voting for you which is a big reason I switched my vote. Then there was a push, though not a strong one, against zenge I didn’t like and my read never improved on you since then. You were always at the bottom of my reads once I developed a handful of reads night 0.

 

[WildZoo]

It started on Day 0 when you questioned me and greedy when I was voting for you which is a big reason I switched my vote. Then there was a push, though not a strong one, against zenge I didn’t like and my read never improved on you since then. You were always at the bottom of my reads once I developed a handful of reads night 0.

Wait
You scum read me for asking why you didn't want to be mayor? Are you serious?

And I never pushed against Zenge?? I didn't give him a village read D0, which I would never ever do anyway, because he tends to die early and if I'm village reading him I prefer for him to be around long enough to catch a wolf.

 

[GreedyBanger]

I mean for me at least it was just general POE and wanting to not lim fruit or mads(yikes) at the time. I was pretty transparent about that when it came to PSV wagon and the PSV wagon became the samac wagon which became the WZ wagon

 

[WildZoo]

Otherwise I was just messing around by saying he was chaotic/3p (though if he is I will chuckle myself to the grave)

This is what I get for not being a serious person

 

[WildZoo]

Anyway I think that could mostly be attributed to a misunderstanding of my overall tone and playstyle, which I can work with, but I doubt it matters now since your view of me is now tilted by the mads situation.

 

[WildZoo]

I mean for me at least it was just general POE and wanting to not lim fruit or mads(yikes) at the time. I was pretty transparent about that when it came to PSV wagon and the PSV wagon became the samac wagon which became the WZ wagon

Yikes indeed

 

[GreedyBanger]

I'm willing to maybe consider other options on day 3 if Mads flips red. A lot of game between now and then.

 

[KayJayQueue]

Wait
You scum read me for asking why you didn't want to be mayor? Are you serious?

And I never pushed against Zenge?? I didn't give him a village read D0, which I would never ever do anyway, because he tends to die early and if I'm village reading him I prefer for him to be around long enough to catch a wolf.

I didn’t say I scumread you for the question. It pinged me though.

 

[Zenge142]

I didn’t say I scumread you for the question. It pinged me though.

And when I asked you, and you explained yourself and she defended your explanation to me?

What did you think of that?

 

[KayJayQueue]

And when I asked you, and you explained yourself and she defended your explanation to me?

What did you think of that?

Could’ve been attempting to pocket me by white knighting, or to look townie to others townreading me.

 

[WildZoo]

I didn’t say I scumread you for the question. It pinged me though.

I know it's early so everything is weaksauce but that is a heck of a lot of weaksauce to hold onto when you have a LOT of other posting data to work with

 

[WildZoo]

I'm willing to maybe consider other options on day 3 if Mads flips red. A lot of game between now and then.

Yes but you've ruined my chances of being nightkilled n2, and for that I will never forgive 😤

 

[KayJayQueue]

I know it's early so everything is weaksauce but that is a heck of a lot of weaksauce to hold onto when you have a LOT of other posting data to work with

None of your posting moved the needle to town for me. Sorry.

 

[WildZoo]

None of your posting moved the needle to town for me. Sorry.

That's not really what I'm saying but okay

 

[KayJayQueue]

I’m not going to death tunnel to the point I wouldn’t reassess with new info and content. I’ll consider all options. My current opinion is what it is at the moment, if it changes I’ll make it known.

 

[WildZoo]

im sorry for the vote, i didnt know where else to put my finger. but im happy to explain my logic so that we can move past this.

i really wanted a clem vote. because i dont see how he is beneficial to town if he didnt even vote, and i understand we are all busy irl. but to joke vote day 1, then not vote at all day 2 and nobody bats an eye is pretty frustrating, and its not like he hasnt done this before, he did this in Mission ImpoWWsible and PokeWWon. my clem suggestion was shut down and so i moved on bc nobody at the time seemed willing to look into it with me. im not for voting newbies on day one because i was a newbie literally 2 games ago and it didnt feel nice getting the finger pointed at me just for being inexperienced, so i swore off newbies. mads i didnt wanna believe was scum, but i fear now i have to. samac i dont believe is scum, and still dont believe shes scum. GB and Lissa were outlier votes IMO pointing fingers at eachother. PSV is still a neutral weird read in my book.
so i went with a vote based on someone i barely played with, aka you. not a good excuse for a vote but the excuse none the less.

give me like another cycle to play with you and i'll get a better read on you so that if and when i vote for you next time, i'll have a better reason than "welp, i was limited on options and idk how to play with you so, yeet"

I don't think the clem situation is as much nobody batting an eye as it just being like...that truly is just Clem. Take it from someone who votes for him early and often You could be right! But it think people who play with him a lot sometimes just feel kinda meh about voting for him because of that history.

And I know at least one person (maybe genny?) was actually village reading him for his general behavior D0, but I don't put much stock in it. I wouldn't put voting for a mod past wolf Clem, and D0 is relatively low stakes. And he's done literally nothing since then.

Anyway I appreciate the explanation.

 

[WildZoo]

I’m not going to death tunnel to the point I wouldn’t reassess with new info and content. I’ll consider all options. My current opinion is what it is at the moment, if it changes I’ll make it known.

That's good in theory but you can perhaps understand why I don't really believe it when every time anyone says anything that might be a point in my favor you immediately shoot it down. And maybe you can think back to a couple games ago and consider how it went when others were doing the same when you tried to defend Zenge.

 

[WildZoo]

Like I realize I am not dying right now but it is pretty demoralizing to be told I've been paired with someone who hasn't even flipped yet, and to know I will therefore be treated as scum for the next cycle at minimum, two if she does in fact flip wolf. And nothing I say or others say in my favor seems to invite any amount of consideration for the alternative.

While on an intellectual level I can say "Hmmyes, sure does seem like I'm destined to die here", that doesn't erase the fact that it is not a fun way to exist in the game.

 

[samac]

I don’t feel like this is wolf Dubz tbh

 

[samac]

And people can complain about meta blah blah
But I’ll play with you enough and get better radar

 

[GreedyBanger]

Right now without additional flips my gut is saying that if theres scum in Samac/PSV/WZ its PSV

 

[Sakuraaa]

still processing all the words I just read 😵

I think KayJayQueue seemed really interested in figuring out the best move before the voting closed. Really good feelings about her being a villager

samac's posting around the closing felt worse..... but I'm thinking my feelings there could be colored by my KayJayQueue feelings, if that makes sense.