Is Declining Columbia a Dumb Decision if…

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ticktock5051

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Hey all,

I was recently accepted to Columbia but think I’ll politely decline in favor of going to UVA or Rochester. Basically, I want to know if this is a dumb idea. I know Columbia is a great school and people say it will open doors for me, but I’m not convinced.

Lifestyle: Basically, I think I’d be happier at Rochester or UVA. I’m really outdoorsy (ie: hiking and camping. Not just walking in a city park). Furthermore, I’m not crazy about big city life. I’ve lived in Boston and Chicago and I just didn’t think it was that great. I enjoy having my own car for errands (not riding the subway), not planning all activities around rush hour traffic, and not being constantly surrounded by masses of people.

Schooling: I wasn’t thrilled with Columbia. No offense to them, but it felt like they ride their own coat tails; the curriculum and teaching just seemed unimaginative and routine (it’s basically straight up lecture for the entire pre-clinical phase). I’m not terribly drawn to research and I don’t like that it’s a required aspect of the program. Finally, I’m not interested in surgery (I’ve spent the last 1.5 years working in the OR and don’t think it’s for me) and Columbia has an inordinate amount of surgical subspecialty rotations on their required clinical phase.

Career/future: I don’t want to live in a big city later in life so I question the utility of going to Columbia for networking etc. However, I realize that having Columbia on my resume can open lots of doors down the line. Therefore, in spite of my misgivings towards attending, is it naïve of me to not accept this opportunity?

Thanks so much.

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@Psai, i don't really understand what you mean. Both schools have lecture and PBL components. I was just saying that if PBL is going to be ANY part of the curriculum, I should go to the school with better PBL so I'm not wasting my time.
 
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I wouldn't let research be a deterrent, many of us didn't want to do it only to enjoy it later. And It's becoming more and more common among med students to do some sort of research. But, assuming you hold an acceptance at UVA, I would go there if you'd be happier there. UVA is a good school too.
 
Admissions people are very interested in "fit". Not everyone is going to be a good fit for a given school, even if they have an impressive application and blow away the interviewer. It is next to impossible to transfer to another school after you've matriculated so you need to make a good choice at the outset.

I think you've made a good case why you will be happier at UVA or Rochester and why those schools are a better fit for you. don't be ashamed of your choice anymore than someone should be ashamed of turning down Mayo for reasons related to geography and lifestyle.
 
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@LizzyM, thanks so much. I know you're on an admissions committee and have professional perspective. You wouldn't see declining Columbia as being a missed career opportunity/professional bungle?
 
Go for it. You will be spending the next 4 years of your life in school. Medical school will be much easier if you're in place you like around people you love.
 
@LizzyM, thanks so much. I know you're on an admissions committee and have professional perspective. You wouldn't see declining Columbia as being a missed career opportunity/professional bungle?

Not at all. If it isn't a good fit for you, it could be a bungle to attend and be miserable. You aren't going to do your best work under those circumstances. Go where you will thrive and be happy. Your career will work itself out.
 
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Hey all,

I was recently accepted to Columbia but think I’ll politely decline in favor of going to UVA or Rochester. Basically, I want to know if this is a dumb idea. I know Columbia is a great school and people say it will open doors for me, but I’m not convinced.

Lifestyle: Basically, I think I’d be happier at Rochester or UVA. I’m really outdoorsy (ie: hiking and camping. Not just walking in a city park). Furthermore, I’m not crazy about big city life. I’ve lived in Boston and Chicago and I just didn’t think it was that great. I enjoy having my own car for errands (not riding the subway), not planning all activities around rush hour traffic, and not being constantly surrounded by masses of people.

Schooling: I wasn’t thrilled with Columbia. No offense to them, but it felt like they ride their own coat tails; the curriculum and teaching just seemed unimaginative and routine (it’s basically straight up lecture for the entire pre-clinical phase). I’m not terribly drawn to research and I don’t like that it’s a required aspect of the program. Finally, I’m not interested in surgery (I’ve spent the last 1.5 years working in the OR and don’t think it’s for me) and Columbia has an inordinate amount of surgical subspecialty rotations on their required clinical phase.

Career/future: I don’t want to live in a big city later in life so I question the utility of going to Columbia for networking etc. However, I realize that having Columbia on my resume can open lots of doors down the line. Therefore, in spite of my misgivings towards attending, is it naïve of me to not accept this opportunity?

Thanks so much.

UVA is a great place for the outdoors type. As a fellow outdoorsy person, having that outlet close by during the stressful periods of school is an immeasurable bonus. Don't let some perceived prestige decide where you go. Go where you think you'll be happy.
 
If you want to do a very competitive surgical subspecialty in a certain area and enjoy throwing away money on high rents for a closet, columbia. But Rochester and uva are very well respected and won't limit you
 
I think that you've answered your questions quite well.

Go to UVA or Rochester, and be happy. Good luck!


Lifestyle: Basically, I think I’d be happier at Rochester or UVA. I’m really outdoorsy (ie: hiking and camping. Not just walking in a city park). Furthermore, I’m not crazy about big city life. I’ve lived in Boston and Chicago and I just didn’t think it was that great. I enjoy having my own car for errands (not riding the subway), not planning all activities around rush hour traffic, and not being constantly surrounded by masses of people.

Schooling: I wasn’t thrilled with Columbia. No offense to them, but it felt like they ride their own coat tails; the curriculum and teaching just seemed unimaginative and routine (it’s basically straight up lecture for the entire pre-clinical phase). I’m not terribly drawn to research and I don’t like that it’s a required aspect of the program. Finally, I’m not interested in surgery (I’ve spent the last 1.5 years working in the OR and don’t think it’s for me) and Columbia has an inordinate amount of surgical subspecialty rotations on their required clinical phase.

Career/future: I don’t want to live in a big city later in life so I question the utility of going to Columbia for networking etc. However, I realize that having Columbia on my resume can open lots of doors down the line. Therefore, in spite of my misgivings towards attending, is it naïve of me to not accept this opportunity?

Thanks so much.
 
Go where you'll be happy, that is so much more important than the "prestige" you'd get at an ivy.

I got the WL at Columbia, but I'm not even remotely upset about it because honestly I find NYC toxic.
 
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No one really cares allllll that much about Columbia outside the tri-state area and uber competitive surg subspecialties. It tries to be HMS or Penn or Stanford but fails (as you've felt already).

Go to UVA. There's not much outdoorsy thugs to be had during 60% of the year in Rochester. They have campus wide tunnels to avoid the snow. Nuff said
 
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No one really cares allllll that much about Columbia outside the tri-state area and uber competitive surg subspecialties. It tries to be HMS or Penn or Stanford but fails (as you've felt already).

Go to UVA. There's not much outdoorsy thugs to be had during 60% of the year in Rochester. They have campus wide tunnels to avoid the snow. Nuff said

Just genuinely curious about your thoughts:

Why do you feel like Columbia is a tier below Penn? I kind of get that feeling too but I am curious about what factors people point to.
 
Schooling: I wasn’t thrilled with Columbia. No offense to them, but it felt like they ride their own coat tails

Fwiw, a graduating Columbia student has used almost those exact words to describe their experience there to me
 
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Do what makes you happy, not what you imagine others think you should do.
I'm turning down a "better" school for one I like more with no regrets. If you are good enough to gain acceptance to Columbia, you are likely to succeed wherever you go.
 
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Just genuinely curious about your thoughts:

Why do you feel like Columbia is a tier below Penn? I kind of get that feeling too but I am curious about what factors people point to.

Because they make it obvious. When you're awesome, you don't need to harp on how awesome you are because everyone already knows. Also the location is suboptimal and the hospital is not the prettiest
 
As someone who isn't in med school yet, I always saw the big advantage to big names like Columbia, Harvard, etc as being that they make it easier to get your choice of residency in your desired location (ie. Cities whose job markets are hard to get into). You can match to most (or all) specialties from basically any MD school, but the bigger name helps you match in any location/tier program that you want.

You're not looking to compete for big city residency spots, so you don't need to worry about that. Plus, UVA and Rochester are (in my mind at least) top tier schools, so they will get you where you want to go anyways

...And NYC is a miserable place to live
 
I'd go Columbia,

Thats me not you, enjoy yourself in UVA
 
...And NYC is a miserable place to live


Some people love it. Other people hate it. That's why the OP has to know what works best for OP. And if OP wasn't enthusiastic w/ their program, that kind of directs OP also.

Give a rating to what you think that name gives you in light of all the other factors, to which you can also give a number. I mean really, it looks like you have already weighed this, so don't worry about it and trust your gut.
 
UVA and Rochester are both excellent institutions. Go where you want to go, not where US News says to go.
 
No one really cares allllll that much about Columbia outside the tri-state area and uber competitive surg subspecialties. It tries to be HMS or Penn or Stanford but fails (as you've felt already).
Weren't you crying in the Columbia school specific thread about how you love the school and thought you'd be a strong fit, and were upset they didnt offer you an II? Someone sounds bitter :rolleyes:
 
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Weren't you crying in the Columbia school specific thread about how you love the school and thought you'd be a strong fit, and were upset they didnt offer you an II? Someone sounds bitter :rolleyes:

Agree. The swipe at Columbia seemed pretty gratuitous. I have a a pretty severe reaction everytime I read one of these supposed high-flyers sounding really quick on the trigger for anger, hypercritical, know-it-all responses, and generalized arrogance. A few seem to slip through the arrogance sallyport undetected as they collect their acceptances.
 
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Weren't you crying in the Columbia school specific thread about how you love the school and thought you'd be a strong fit, and were upset they didnt offer you an II? Someone sounds bitter :rolleyes:
Yes, I love Columbia. I still am really sad that I could not interview there. But OP is concerned about prestige. My point is that the school's prestige is limited (hence the point about my strong fit) when compared to other top schools. Only people who care about Columbia's strong points care about Columbia. I am one of them. OP is not

Good try tho, 7/10 jab
 
Agree. The swipe at Columbia seemed pretty gratuitous. I have a a pretty severe reaction everytime I read one of these supposed high-flyers sounding really quick on the trigger for anger, hypercritical, know-it-all responses, and generalized arrogance. A few seem to slip through the arrogance sallyport undetected as they collect their acceptances.
Or you could finally see that the real life sallyport actually works and we are just not the online personas you perceive. Nuance is lost over digital communication. Our generation forgets that.

But I'm still a fierce advocate of the high horse for everyone who wants one so believe what you want.
 
It's like this thread was invented for me to respond to.

Hi. I'm an M1 at Columbia and I was choosing between Columbia and UVA.

Lifestyle: I am not a big city person either. I probably would not have gone to medical school in NYC if it was any school other than Columbia. One of the nice things about Columbia is that it's tucked away in Washington Heights which is far away from the rest of the crazy parts of Manhattan. Washington Heights feels more like a smaller city compared to the rest of Manhattan (it's more like downtown Richmond or parts of DC). However, you're only one express subway ride away from the rest of Manhattan if you need to get downtown. Owning a car here is generally a bad idea because it's NYC, so if that's really important to you, NYC in general is not a great idea. However, in terms of outdoors things, there's surprisingly a lot of those types of things to do in the area. Before orientation, second years lead a week long trip to somewhere in the Catskills that involves hiking/camping/etc and as a second year, you have the opportunity to lead this for the incoming first years. There's also Rockaway Beach in Queens that people frequent during the warmer months. Additionally, I have friends who go outdoor rock climbing somewhere outside the city every couple weekends, and people routinely will head up to the Catskills or other places for a day of hiking on weekends in the fall. There are plenty of accessible outdoor activities, so don't let that be a limiting factor. There's also a wilderness medicine club if that's your thing.

Schooling: Columbia's curriculum is deceptive at first glance. On the surface it looks like "straight lectures" for the first 1.5 years, but that's not correct. For the first semester, your classes are divided into 5 blocks of basic sciences (collectively termed "molecular mechanisms" or "MM") and then you have anatomy which is divided into 3 blocks (musculoskeletal, head and neck, and viscera - more or less). Your MM courses are mostly lecture with about 2-3 small groups per block that talk about papers or cases and you have an exam at the end of each block. Anatomy is lab once/week + lecture 2x/week but you also have surgeons and radiologists come in and talk about procedures and cases based on what you're currently learning. However, the professors in charge of MM and Anatomy are two of the best professors I've ever had in my life, and they do a great job.

That all changes when you hit your second semester, which, along with your third semester, changes everything. You still have lectures, but you also have small groups nearly every day (3-4x/week on average) which are team based learning cases that you'll do with a preceptor in small groups. They force you to stay up to speed with everything and allow you to apply your knowledge to clinical scenarios. If you really don't like lectures, you can do what probably 1/3 of our class does and not go to them and just watch them later at 1.5x speed. We have had some pretty outstanding lecturers and our small group preceptors very enthusiastic MDs. So whatever it is, it's most definitely not "straight up lecture". The best part though is that the course directors really care about our feedback. In fact, word on the street is they're making a fairly major change next year because our class thought there was a part of the curriculum that didn't work very well.

Research can be a big part of your experience here and its very easy to do if you want to do it, but you can definitely pursue other things instead. Public health is a huge thing here as are global health, narrative medicine, free clinics, etc. Everyone has to do a scholarly project, but it doesn't have to be research. Someone wrote a symphony for their scholarly project a couple years ago. There are a ton of options, and you're not pressured into doing research at all (I personally have not at all felt pressured to do so). My experience is that the school really cares about letting you do what you want to do.

People always joke that we're the College of Surgeons and Surgeons, but we're not just strong in surgery, nor do we only match well into surgery. Our IM match last year was mostly comprised of Vanderbilt, UTSW, Cornell, MGH, Columbia, Penn, UCSF, UCLA, Yale, and NYU. Yes, about 1/3 of our students match to Columbia, but that's pretty self-selective. A lot of people want to go elsewhere for residency and do. Most people here don't match surgery. A lot do, but the majority don't.

Columbia does have a lot of surgical specialty exposure on rotations, but they're generally only a week each and I think it's only ophtho, neurosurgery, and ortho, so it's really not that much time. Additionally, people past their clinical years tell me these are pass/fail rotations, so if you're not into it, you don't have to try super hard. The majority of your clinical year is non-surgical.

In terms of not wanting to be in NYC long term, as I said earlier, 2/3 of people will not match back to Columbia, but will instead go to any number of amazing places throughout the country. I think like 40% total stay in NYC. Additionally, there are Columbia alumns everywhere, and there are a lot of big names in many fields at CUMC, so if you need someone to write you a letter when you're trying to match, you'll probably be in good shape. In terms of prestige, I disagree with @avgn that it's not all that cracked up - we are pretty well known nationwide.

Now, all of this being said, you should go where you think you'll be happiest and where you think you're the best fit. If you think that's UVA or Rochester, go there and don't look back. All I'm doing is giving you my perspective as someone who was making a similar decision and wouldn't trade their medical school experience for the world. If you're going to Columbia solely for the name, yeah, maybe rethink your decision, but the experience lives up to the hype (so far at least!). You need to do what is best for you and if you still think Columbia is a worse fit than UVA or Rochester, then you should go to UVA or Rochester. None of these schools will close doors. Columbia may make it easier to open some, but you won't get shut out at any of them.

I think the best thing you can do right now is go to the second look weekends for these three schools and then make a decision (wait for financial aid packages as well - Columbia wound up being my cheapest option post FA, but was most expensive pre-).

Best of luck in your decision, and please do not hesitate to PM me if you have questions about Columbia (or UVA, but I'm not as knowledgeable about UVA as I am about Columbia).

Also moving to SSD
 
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Yes, I love Columbia. I still am really sad that I could not interview there. But OP is concerned about prestige. My point is that the school's prestige is limited (hence the point about my strong fit) when compared to other top schools. Only people who care about Columbia's strong points care about Columbia. I am one of them. OP is not

Good try tho, 7/10 jab

I have to disagree with the statement that Columbia's prestige is limited when compared to other top schools. Columbia is a top 10 med school and I think this fact is fairly well known throughout the country, not just in the tri-state area. However that is not a good enough reason for the OP to choose Columbia when it is clearly not a good fit, especially when the OP got into UVA which is also an excellent school.
 
It's like this thread was invented for me to respond to.

Hi. I'm an M1 at Columbia and I was choosing between Columbia and UVA.

Lifestyle: I am not a big city person either. I probably would not have gone to medical school in NYC if it was any school other than Columbia. One of the nice things about Columbia is that it's tucked away in Washington Heights which is far away from the rest of the crazy parts of Manhattan. Washington Heights feels more like a smaller city compared to the rest of Manhattan (it's more like downtown Richmond or parts of DC). However, you're only one express subway ride away from the rest of Manhattan if you need to get downtown. Owning a car here is generally a bad idea because it's NYC, so if that's really important to you, NYC in general is not a great idea. However, in terms of outdoors things, there's surprisingly a lot of those types of things to do in the area. Before orientation, second years lead a week long trip to somewhere in the Catskills that involves hiking/camping/etc and as a second year, you have the opportunity to lead this for the incoming first years. There's also Rockaway Beach in Queens that people frequent during the warmer months. Additionally, I have friends who go outdoor rock climbing somewhere outside the city every couple weekends, and people routinely will head up to the Catskills or other places for a day of hiking on weekends in the fall. There are plenty of accessible outdoor activities, so don't let that be a limiting factor. There's also a wilderness medicine club if that's your thing.

Schooling: Columbia's curriculum is deceptive at first glance. On the surface it looks like "straight lectures" for the first 1.5 years, but that's not correct. For the first semester, your classes are divided into 5 blocks of basic sciences (collectively termed "molecular mechanisms" or "MM") and then you have anatomy which is divided into 3 blocks (musculoskeletal, head and neck, and viscera - more or less). Your MM courses are mostly lecture with about 2-3 small groups per block that talk about papers or cases and you have an exam at the end of each block. Anatomy is lab once/week + lecture 2x/week but you also have surgeons and radiologists come in and talk about procedures and cases based on what you're currently learning. However, the professors in charge of MM and Anatomy are two of the best professors I've ever had in my life, and they do a great job.

That all changes when you hit your second semester, which, along with your third semester, changes everything. You still have lectures, but you also have small groups nearly every day (3-4x/week on average) which are team based learning cases that you'll do with a preceptor in small groups. They force you to stay up to speed with everything and allow you to apply your knowledge to clinical scenarios. If you really don't like lectures, you can do what probably 1/3 of our class does and not go to them and just watch them later at 1.5x speed. We have had some pretty outstanding lecturers and our small group preceptors very enthusiastic MDs. So whatever it is, it's most definitely not "straight up lecture". The best part though is that the course directors really care about our feedback. In fact, word on the street is they're making a fairly major change next year because our class thought there was a part of the curriculum that didn't work very well.

Research can be a big part of your experience here and its very easy to do if you want to do it, but you can definitely pursue other things instead. Public health is a huge thing here as are global health, narrative medicine, free clinics, etc. Everyone has to do a scholarly project, but it doesn't have to be research. Someone wrote a symphony for their scholarly project a couple years ago. There are a ton of options, and you're not pressured into doing research at all (I personally have not at all felt pressured to do so). My experience is that the school really cares about letting you do what you want to do.

People always joke that we're the College of Surgeons and Surgeons, but we're not just strong in surgery, nor do we only match well into surgery. Our IM match last year was mostly comprised of Vanderbilt, UTSW, Cornell, MGH, Columbia, Penn, UCSF, UCLA, Yale, and NYU. Yes, about 1/3 of our students match to Columbia, but that's pretty self-selective. A lot of people want to go elsewhere for residency and do. Most people here don't match surgery. A lot do, but the majority don't.

Columbia does have a lot of surgical specialty exposure on rotations, but they're generally only a week each and I think it's only ophtho, neurosurgery, and ortho, so it's really not that much time. Additionally, people past their clinical years tell me these are pass/fail rotations, so if you're not into it, you don't have to try super hard. The majority of your clinical year is non-surgical.

In terms of not wanting to be in NYC long term, as I said earlier, 2/3 of people will not match back to Columbia, but will instead go to any number of amazing places throughout the country. I think like 40% total stay in NYC. Additionally, there are Columbia alumns everywhere, and there are a lot of big names in many fields at CUMC, so if you need someone to write you a letter when you're trying to match, you'll probably be in good shape. In terms of prestige, I disagree with @avgn that it's not all that cracked up - we are pretty well known nationwide.

Now, all of this being said, you should go where you think you'll be happiest and where you think you're the best fit. If you think that's UVA or Rochester, go there and don't look back. All I'm doing is giving you my perspective as someone who was making a similar decision and wouldn't trade their medical school experience for the world. If you're going to Columbia solely for the name, yeah, maybe rethink your decision, but the experience lives up to the hype (so far at least!). You need to do what is best for you and if you still think Columbia is a worse fit than UVA or Rochester, then you should go to UVA or Rochester. None of these schools will close doors. Columbia may make it easier to open some, but you won't get shut out at any of them.

I think the best thing you can do right now is go to the second look weekends for these three schools and then make a decision (wait for financial aid packages as well - Columbia wound up being my cheapest option post FA, but was most expensive pre-).

Best of luck in your decision, and please do not hesitate to PM me if you have questions about Columbia (or UVA, but I'm not as knowledgeable about UVA as I am about Columbia).

Also moving to SSD

Without intending to have this effect, I'm guessing this excellent post is going to bring Columbia very much back in play for the OP. In other words, Columbia just moved into 1st place in the Nevada caucuses.
 
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