MCW vs. USC vs. Georgetown

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uclabruins253

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Hi, I'm a cali student who has been accepted to these schools. I enjoyed Georgetown quite a bit, as well as MCW, as they were outside of california. At the same time, USC is ranked higher than these two schools. Is there really much of a difference between any of these schools, they seem to all occupy the same tier. If I went off personal preference alone I would choose Georgetown...would I be making a mistake by going with a lower ranked school?

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Hi, I'm a cali student who has been accepted to these schools. I enjoyed Georgetown quite a bit, as well as MCW, as they were outside of california. At the same time, USC is ranked higher than these two schools. Is there really much of a difference between any of these schools, they seem to all occupy the same tier. If I went off personal preference alone I would choose Georgetown...would I be making a mistake by going with a lower ranked school?

Georgetown would get you into any decent specialty. You should honestly go where you feel more comfortable. So, if I was in your shoes I would pick Georgetown over the rest in a heart beat. Don't go to a school just for it's ranking that's just a horrible way to pick a school. I don't think it would be a mistake at all!
 
Your choice should really be between Georgetown and USC. I'd pick USC but that's just personal preference. If you felt like you fit in better at Georgetown, that's where you should go! You'll get plenty of great opportunities at both schools and they're about the same price. Still, it couldn't hurt for you to wait til you hear about financial aid packages before choosing.
 
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I've heard bad stories about Gtown (not just from Jalby) in terms of cutthroat students, weak financial aid, difficult administration, taking classes with Master's students and unreasonable cost of living. All hearsay, but this comes from multiple people so who knows? Gtown students feel free to add some perspective.

USC, on the other hand, is well known by residency directors as a great training environment, and 4th years basically act as interns since LA County Hospital is so understaffed. No brainer, in my opinion.
 
From what I have gathered over the years, USC has a better reputation than Georgetown.


Cost of living is also less.

Financial aid is many times better at USC than Georgetown
 
From what I have gathered over the years, USC has a better reputation than Georgetown.


Cost of living is also less.

Financial aid is many times better at USC than Georgetown

I would vote for USC as well but COA is a bad reason to choose USC.
 
I applied to Georgetown, but didn't complete the secondary after learning more about their religious affiliation and its implications on medical education. As someone very interested in women's health, I couldn't see myself attending a school that wouldn't support my endeavours in that area 100%. My vote goes to USC.
 
Thanks for all the input guys. Yes, I have heard those same things about Gtown but for some reason was still very much drawn to it. I had a friend in a similar situation accepted at Buffalo and Gtown who had his heart set on Gtown but chose Buffalo because of more practical considerations such as curriculum, cost of living (or lack thereof in Buffalo). I find myself in a similar predicament!
 
I thought I would weigh in. I love being a student at USC (currently an MS1) -- it really feels like everyone around me is helping me to succeed, including fellow students and administrators. My classmates are intelligent, passionate, involved in our community, and have a lot of fun on top of that. I did not have the chance to interview at MCW but I did interview at Georgetown and it wasn't for me (which may not be the case for you!).

Here's a handful of reasons I would put my vote in for USC:

1. P/F curriculum for years 1 and 2
2. Opportunity to train at the legendary LA County Hospital, where you get to take care of a wonderful patient population and see some incredible pathology (practically every other hospital would be hard-pressed to match us for the breadth of tropical diseases and late-stage presentations owing to our unique population: many immigrants as well as people without health insurance who seek medical care after a disease has progressed chronically)
3. Administration that is investing in its students with new scholarships, new research opportunities, expanded research endeavors, and a brand-new health sciences gym, basketball court, and outdoor sports field.
4. Flexibility in the curriculum to schedule your life how you want it -- most classes have optional attendance and are recorded for access online, so you can choose the form of learning that is best for you. If you learn better by sleeping in until 10 AM, you can do that most days!
5. I didn't think this mattered when I was applying but now that I am on the other side of this, it is so true -- location. The weather here is great year-round, and it is easy to go hiking, hit the beach, go running, or go to any of the other sites of interest near the school (Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Hollywood, Pasadena). Disneyland, San Diego, and skiing are all less than 3 hours away. Life is too short to not enjoy medical school (while also working very hard on getting your MD!).
 
Thanks for all the input guys. Yes, I have heard those same things about Gtown but for some reason was still very much drawn to it. I had a friend in a similar situation accepted at Buffalo and Gtown who had his heart set on Gtown but chose Buffalo because of more practical considerations such as curriculum, cost of living (or lack thereof in Buffalo). I find myself in a similar predicament!

If you want to do residency in CA you should go to USC.
 
I've heard bad stories about Gtown (not just from Jalby) in terms of cutthroat students, weak financial aid, difficult administration, taking classes with Master's students and unreasonable cost of living. All hearsay, but this comes from multiple people so who knows? Gtown students feel free to add some perspective.

USC, on the other hand, is well known by residency directors as a great training environment, and 4th years basically act as interns since LA County Hospital is so understaffed. No brainer, in my opinion.

+1. The environment at Georgetown seemed poisonous to me. First, Mrs. Sullivan basically tried to talk us out of the school. Then, she said that the school is "15% gunners". Then a med student told us that their tests are harder than their friends' tests at other schools, and she seemed proud about it. Finally, a student on our tour was incredibly negative about the school. I get that that was just one student's opinion, but what--they couldn't find any happy students? Personally, I would pick USC in a heartbeat.
 
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Another reason to choose USC... This guy:

Barkley1.jpg
 
I've heard bad stories about Gtown (not just from Jalby) in terms of cutthroat students, weak financial aid, difficult administration, taking classes with Master's students and unreasonable cost of living. All hearsay, but this comes from multiple people so who knows? Gtown students feel free to add some perspective.

USC, on the other hand, is well known by residency directors as a great training environment, and 4th years basically act as interns since LA County Hospital is so understaffed. No brainer, in my opinion.

As a current Georgetown M2, I can answer some of these misconceptions. We are NOT cutthroat. At all. I think people think this because we don't have P/F grading. Actually, we all work together. We have a document sharing website that was started by students to help share information. The whole reason I WENT to Georgetown in the first place was because I loved the people I was with. I felt like they were the most supportive, nicest people I've ever met, and I wanted to be in that environment. People honestly want you to succeed.

As for the administration, they work REALLY hard to respond to student critiques. There have been problems in the past with us not liking something, but they changed it for the next year, like cutting down on lecture time and changing the expectations for certain small group classes. They work closely with students to make the school an all around better place. Dean Mitchell is really responsive to students and genuinely likes talking with them, even though he is a practicing doctor and the dean of the medical school. The financial aid office needs some work, but again, that's been improving constantly since I started working with them. And honestly, what financial aid department DOESN'T need work?

We do share classes with the SMPs, and its only some of the M1 lectures. It isn't all of them, and we barely see them otherwise. Lecture is lecture is lecture no matter who is sitting in there. We do not compete with them in grading, or in anatomy, or in anything like that.

Now the unreasonable cost of living is true if you aren't used to it. This is DC, after all, and its the nice part of DC. I'm from the Northwest, and the cost of living was a shock moving here. But it's DC, and that's just how it is. Living in DC does have its perks, though, because we have a hugely diverse population. Not only do we get to rotate in a very specialized tertiary care center like Georgetown, we also get to go see an inner city hospital like Washington Hospital Center and community hospitals like Fairfax. Lots of different experiences, lots of interesting people.

Georgetown also does acting internships in the fourth year. M4s basically ARE the interns in ER, internal med and something else that escapes me right now.We are known for our clinicians, which is why we place so well into residency.

I hope that answered some of the misconceptions about Georgetown. I will echo what I've read on this board: go where you feel most comfortable. Rankings mean absolutely nothing. Really. They don't mean anything, even in residency match. Its all about the reputation of the school in the residency programs, not about what USNews says. If you go to the top ranked school in the country and are miserable, you will hate your life and not do well. Just remember that.
 
Why is MCW not being talked about at all? As far as rankings go, USC is only slightly better than MCW in Research, and MCW takes USC for primary care. MCW is affiliated with a huge Level 1 trauma center that competes with really no other schools/students for clinical rotations. It's also affiliated with one of the best children's hospitals in this hemisphere.

You also interviewed there, so you know all about their new curriculum. Obviously, pre-clinical classes are pretty standardized in the material they have to get across to their students, and only minor tweaks can happen in how that material is presented. With that said, I really like their focus on small-group, evidence based learning for the first two years. I feel like it will give you an early lead in what actually working up patients will be like; although everybody obviously becomes competent in this eventually.

Also, the pathways. If you're thinking of going into a competitive specialty, then I feel that MCW sets you up quite nicely to be a competitive applicant. If you choose the research pathway, then you are given time in your schedule for the first two years to work on a research project with a faculty member, and there is certainly good research going on at MCW that you can participate in. That's pretty huge, considering at most traditional schools students really only have time to do research in the summer between M1 and M2. Having 3-4 semesters of extra research over the rest of the pack can only help you stand out. Also, MCW has had some pretty outstanding match lists in recent years, placing students in a lot of competitive specialties. I don't think it's published on their website, but if you email them you can certainly get a list from them. (I know The Prowler, who recently graduated from MCW, could probably tell you more about what kind of residencies students have gotten coming from MCW as well).
 
would also vote Georgetown, its name in medicine (and law and business) are superb and will open any door. also Hoyas were rockin it in basketball (until today!) USC sucks in my opinion. and you'll probably get shot at at least once in your 4 years
 
would also vote Georgetown, its name in medicine (and law and business) are superb and will open any door. also Hoyas were rockin it in basketball (until today!) USC sucks in my opinion. and you'll probably get shot at at least once in your 4 years

I'd say USC is way above Georgetown in terms of clinical opportunities and name recognition. Also, it isn't in a dangerous area at all...
 
MCW is the worrrrrst. def dont go there. for sure withdrew, sooner rather than later.


- applicant on the MCW waiting list
 
I've heard that the facilities and library at gtown are terrible and the financial aid office and staff are really bad. A friend of mine who went there told me he has seen better facilities at some of the third world countries he has been to. For the amount of money they charge, this is not acceptable. The school is under a huge amount of debt.

Go to USC and enjoy sunny California.
 
Mcw is a private school.

I would choose USC of these 3. Good mix of clinical experience with CHLA/LAC, etc.
 
Georgetown tuition = ~$47k, cost of living highest
MCW tuition for non-wisconsin = ~$41k, cost of living lowest
USC tuition = ~$47k, I don't know the CoL for LA since I've never lived there...

* tuition rates are from the MSAR, so I'm sure the actual for next year somewhat higher across the board.
** MCW has a capitation credit for WI residents which reduces the tuition that can vary in amount but last year it was ~$6k (per MCW).
 
did I also mention that the temp in wisco can get to -20 during the winter? damn it sucks sooooooooooooo much in wisco. so have you withdrawn from MCW yet?? .... ;)

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did I also mention that the temp in wisco can get to -20 during the winter? damn it sucks sooooooooooooo much in wisco. so have you withdrawn from MCW yet?? .... ;)

-

-20? this isn't minnesota we're talking about.
 
Georgetown tuition = ~$47k, cost of living highest
MCW tuition for non-wisconsin = ~$41k, cost of living lowest
USC tuition = ~$47k, I don't know the CoL for LA since I've never lived there...

* tuition rates are from the MSAR, so I'm sure the actual for next year somewhat higher across the board.
** MCW has a capitation credit for WI residents which reduces the tuition that can vary in amount but last year it was ~$6k (per MCW).

Living in LA is as expensive as living in DC.
 
I was going to apply to Georgetown. I looked at the cost, possibility of aid, cost of location, and I backed out. I do not know anyone that has gotten into Georgetown as well. It seems they reject everybody.

Go to which ever of the three works for you.
 
Living in LA is as expensive as living in DC.

There's way more cheap housing in LA than in DC. If you have a car and want to save money, you're set, just need to decide how low you want to set your standards of housing.

I'm paying ~$650/month utilities included at a house in Culver City, which isn't even one of the cheaper areas of LA.
 
There's way more cheap housing in LA than in DC. If you have a car and want to save money, you're set, just need to decide how low you want to set your standards of housing.

I'm paying ~$650/month utilities included at a house in Culver City, which isn't even one of the cheaper areas of LA.

You could also live in maryland, in the areas close to DC. But you are looking at 1000-1300 for one or two-bedroom apartments without utilities. The area is pretty expensive.
 
I've heard that the facilities and library at gtown are terrible and the financial aid office and staff are really bad. A friend of mine who went there told me he has seen better facilities at some of the third world countries he has been to. For the amount of money they charge, this is not acceptable. The school is under a huge amount of debt.

Go to USC and enjoy sunny California.

I would like to echo the sentiments of several others and say that this should really be a decision between USC / Gtown. I have no issues with MCW, but it definitely loses the reputation / opportunity / location battle with either of the aforementioned schools.

Endowment:

Speaking of debt, USC's endowment ($3.5 billion) is considerably larger than Gtown's ($1.1 billion). I know this has little direct impact on individual students, but it can play a role in the long-term financial health & competitiveness of an institution.

Reputation:

I do believe that Gtown and USC are in roughly the same tier of medical schools. The average GPA of accepted students is comparable but USC does have an edge in MCAT scores (34 vs 32). For comparison, MCW usually averages 31. I am very aware that GPA and MCAT scores are indicative of quality, but there certainly is a correlation between those factors and board exam scores.

Both schools are well-known in many fields. I imagine that Gtown will have more regional influence on the East coast and USC on the West. So this depends on where you want to do your rotations, residency, etc. I am a born and raised West (best) coaster, so the choice is obvious for me.

Sports:

Football: USC >> Gtown
Basketball: Gtown >> USC

I am personally a basketball fan, but being in LA will give you many opportunities to watch Lakers and UCLA games. Also, Lakers >> Wizards. For the baseball fans, there are Dodgers and Angels games. For soccer nuts, we have the LA Galaxy.

Location:

To be fair, both DC and LA have their "nice" and "ghetto" neighborhoods. Southeast LA is notoriously shady but DC has the highest prevalence of HIV / AIDS in North America. So pick your poison. IMO, LA offers a rich wealth of cultural diversity and host of recreational activities that is simply unparalleled. DC has its diversity as well, but it's mostly black/white as far as ethnicity goes. Within 15 minutes of USC, you will find large Chinese, African, Korean, Japanese, Mexican, Armenian, Persian, black, and white communities. So LA obviously wins the ethnic food battle. Seriously, you can go to a different restaurant every day for the next four years and not even come close to exploring half of what LA offers. DC does have nice monuments and museums, but unless you're a history buff, they get old quickly. Disneyland is about 35 mins south of USC. LA has nice beaches, to boot. :thumbup:

Oh, and Cali girls >> DC girls ;)

Cost of living:

All things considered, DC and LA are within the same strata of COL. BUT, living on the cheap is more plausible in LA than in DC. How do I know this? I practically grew up in LA. Produce is cheaper, thanks to the wealth of agriculture in the central valley and imports from Mexico / Argentina. Food at most local joints is extremely affordable, as they must cater to the working population rather than lobbyists who treat congress members in DC. There are definitely expensive eats in LA, but it's your call on how you want to live. Costco, IKEA, and Walmart locations are abound in LA. Reasonable housing prices can be found in surrounding neighborhoods.

TL;DR

USC is more reputable than Gtown / MCW. LA has better food and women than DC.

And yes, this review is totally biased. :laugh:
 
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Although I only interviewed at USC, I would say unless you have some sort of draw to DC or the east coast, pick USC. LAC county AND it's California.

Also, I don't think you specified, but if you want to come back to California for residency...pick USC. It's not even a choice.
 
USC is also investing $1.5 BILLION (with a B) in it's medical program - just the medical school - over the next 7 years. You're going to be very hard pressed to find a school more dedicated to improving their medical school anywhere (Granted, places like Harvard, Penn, and Hopkins don't need any improvement - but USC is rapidly on the rise).

http://campaign.usc.edu/campaign/school-and-unit-goals/
 
USC is also investing $1.5 BILLION (with a B) in it's medical program - just the medical school - over the next 7 years. You're going to be very hard pressed to find a school more dedicated to improving their medical school anywhere (Granted, places like Harvard, Penn, and Hopkins don't need any improvement - but USC is rapidly on the rise).

http://campaign.usc.edu/campaign/school-and-unit-goals/

Keep in mind that these are estimates, based on fundraising goals. It's hard to say whether they will be able to meet those goals, especially given the dreary economic climate. I for one, certainly hope they do :D
 
If one has a significantly lower COA I would choose that one. If not go to USC...great school and warm weather, can't beat it.
 
why is that? do residency programs also favor locals? Even California residencies?

Most residency programs have at least a slight preference for their own undergraduate medical students. As a student, you would get to know some people within the department you are interested in. Your professors also likely know more residency directors at local institutions than at those on the other side of the country. Really, it's a simple matter of connections. If you take a look at match lists for most medical schools, you will see that the bulk of graduating students end up in residency programs either at the same institution or at hospitals in the same region.
 
Keep in mind that these are estimates, based on fundraising goals. It's hard to say whether they will be able to meet those goals, especially given the dreary economic climate. I for one, certainly hope they do :D

It's a $7B plan over 7 years.They raised $1.5B the first year. I'd say they are doing just fine so far and I don't think the economy is going to get any worse than it has been over the last year.

=)
 
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It's a $7B plan over 7 years.They raised $1.5B the first year. I'd say they are doing just fine so far and I don't think the economy is going to get any worse than it has been over the last year.

=)

Actually one of those $7B is me, depending on if I get an acceptance.
;)
 
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