NYU vs. U of Minnesota

[martino6425]

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I've been planning on UMN since we had to decide on May 15, but I just got off the waitlist at NYU. I would love to be in New York since I've been in Minnesota my whole life. The issue is of course money. UMN would be about 31,000 for me, while NYU is 46,000 (and higher living expenses). Another thing to consider is the fact that I want to go into dermatology. Would having the NYU name give me a better shot at this competitive residency? I am torn...

UPDATE: I got off Mount Sinai's waitlist, and I like Sinai more than NYU (36,000 vs 46,000). The new decision is Mount Sinai vs. U of Minnesota. Must decide by July 2.

 

[Quicky]

You'll be able to go into dermatology from either school if you work hard enough. NYU may give you a small edge, particularly in the northeast, but the school attended is usually considered negligible compared to factors such as step 1, clinical evals, letters of rec, research, etc. You'll hear all kinds of advice on this board, but when it comes down to it, you need to think about things such as where you will be happy, where you will have the best chance to succeed, etc., and then decide whether you think it is worth a minimum of 80k + interest to attend NYU.

 

[Cytotoxic]

NYU has one of the best derm programs in the country, and these are the people who'll be writing your LORs. It's in NYC. If you change your mind re specialty, NYU will help you match, especially in the NE.

 

[Quicky]

NYU has one of the best derm programs in the country, and these are the people who'll be writing your LORs. It's in NYC. If you change your mind re specialty, NYU will help you match, especially in the NE.

lol... second thoughts about saying the financial difference between a state school and one of the most expensive private schools in the country is negligible? Just a little bit of a stretch there, Minnesota's residency director rating is a 3.6 compared to 3.7 for NYU with their peer research scores being equivalent.

 

[alibai3ah]

There is really no right answer here.

It seems like you want a change. You have been in Minnesota your whole life and want to move to a city like New York (great city btw). I think something like that isn't quantifiable and so no one would blame you for going to NYU.

In your situation, I would also pick NYU (especially since you want a more competitive residency and name does matter to a degree). A post above me said NYU has one of the best derm programs (also an added bonus).

Go with NYU, it's what you really want. While the money thing sucks, it'll eventually work out.

 

[metallica81788]

There is really no right answer here.

It seems like you want a change. You have been in Minnesota your whole life and want to move to a city like New York (great city btw). I think something like that isn't quantifiable and so no one would blame you for going to NYU.

In your situation, I would also pick NYU (especially since you want a more competitive residency and name does matter to a degree). A post above me said NYU has one of the best derm programs (also an added bonus).

Go with NYU, it's what you really want. While the money thing sucks, it'll eventually work out.

I agree with this post.

 

[martino6425]

Thanks for the advice to those who replied. My heart says NYU but my mind says UMN. Is it really that much harder to get a NY residency coming from the midwest? (And U of MN is not far behind NYU in terms of rankings, although it's not a "brand name".) I want to make a big move someday, but I'm not sure if now is the time, especially considering how much it will cost me. If I can get a NY residency anyway, then why not stay home now, save the 80,000+ and use it for the enormously high rent later?

 

[neuromcdoctor]

Thanks for the advice to those who replied. My heart says NYU but my mind says UMN. Is it really that much harder to get a NY residency coming from the midwest? (And U of MN is not far behind NYU in terms of rankings, although it's not a "brand name".) I want to make a big move someday, but I'm not sure if now is the time, especially considering how much it will cost me. If I can get a NY residency anyway, then why not stay home now, save the 80,000+ and use it for the enormously high rent later?

As someone who is leaving NY for medschool but will hopefully be returning for residency, I have to say that I honestly believe if you do well on your boards and apply to residencies that you are competitive for (stats wise) you shouldn't have a problem. Obviously there are some advantages to going to a medical school in the state you want to practice in - recommenders may be recognized by the residency program directors, familiarity with areas etc. That said, I believe if you do your subinternships at the school you want to do your residency at in new york, perhaps getting recommendations from those doctors who will know the residency directors in ny, you really shouldn't have trouble getting to the city.

 

[anfleisch]

Refer to match lists and residency director scores. I would also talk to current 4th years, I don't think any of us really know what is most important other than step 1 and rotation grades.
Maybe you can extort money from current waitlistees (except from me) to give up the spot, and use that money for your enormously high rent?

 

[brooklynblunder]

nyu has sub. housing. your cost of living should not be high, but its gonna suck compared to what you can get for that $

they are mad good at cleaning up the snow (nyc)

 

[SamDaManMD]

NYU is a really great school and in an awesome location. Minnesota is also a really great school too. One good thing about Minnesota, besides cost, is that you would be able to see your family more. If you stay in MN and are really worried about letters of rec and want to do dermatology in NYC you could always do an elective rotation during your 4th year in New York. In fact, you could probably spend a good 6 months rotating in NYC M4 year if you really wanted to too. But Minnesota is a great school and I doubt you would have any problems getting a good residency. It's gonna be hard to go out too once medical school starts. In the end go with what you feel is better for you. There is no wrong decision because both schools are awesome and ultimately I think both schools will get you where you want to be in the future. Good LUCK!!!

 

[alibai3ah]

Thanks for the advice to those who replied. My heart says NYU but my mind says UMN. Is it really that much harder to get a NY residency coming from the midwest? (And U of MN is not far behind NYU in terms of rankings, although it's not a "brand name".) I want to make a big move someday, but I'm not sure if now is the time, especially considering how much it will cost me. If I can get a NY residency anyway, then why not stay home now, save the 80,000+ and use it for the enormously high rent later?

Well then it seems like your heart and mind both say UMN. If residency is the only thing you are worried about, then go with UMN. You'll be fine if you do well there. It's a pretty well respected school.

 

[jbz24]

I have to disagree a bit with the previous responses. If you're definitely looking to do residency in NYC (which isn't the best reason to pick a medical school, but we'll save that for another time), then NYU will provide a significant advantage over Minnesota. Three reasons for this. I'm going to preface this by saying if, in the end, you do excel in your clinical rotations and boards, you will have no problem matching into NY. But if you are just an average, or slightly above average, student then it will be very unlikely.

1) U of Minnesota is just less well-known in NY. While it may be a great school, residency directors in NY are just much less familiar with it. This is the least significant reason why NYU is better matching into NYC than Minnesota.

2) You said you were in Minnesota pretty much your whole life. Residency program directors in NYC may take you less seriously when they decide who they want to interview and/or match into their program since you have no NYC experience. Both the lifestyle in NY and also the medicine practiced is very different than in Minnesota.

3) If you go to NYU, your home institution is one of the 4 main NYC programs. Even if you are just an average student, you will have a greater than average chance matching into NYU. Plus all residency directors and faculty in the 4 institutions chat a lot with each other. If someone makes a call on your behalf, it will carry a lot more weight from a faculty member they know from NYU than one they don't know from Minnesota.

Again, I don't think this is a good reason to pick one school over another, but I just felt like when people saying you will have no problems matching if you do well, that's not the best advice. It's incredibly hard to predict how well one does in medical school, largely because your clinical years aren't necessarily about how much work you put into it (but more about luck of who your residents/attendings are, how well you mesh with the team, how efficient you are, etc.).

 

[Doctor Rod]

I have to disagree a bit with the previous responses. If you're definitely looking to do residency in NYC (which isn't the best reason to pick a medical school, but we'll save that for another time), then NYU will provide a significant advantage over Minnesota. Three reasons for this. I'm going to preface this by saying if, in the end, you do excel in your clinical rotations and boards, you will have no problem matching into NY. But if you are just an average, or slightly above average, student then it will be very unlikely.

1) U of Minnesota is just less well-known in NY. While it may be a great school, residency directors in NY are just much less familiar with it. This is the least significant reason why NYU is better matching into NYC than Minnesota.

2) You said you were in Minnesota pretty much your whole life. Residency program directors in NYC may take you less seriously when they decide who they want to interview and/or match into their program since you have no NYC experience. Both the lifestyle in NY and also the medicine practiced is very different than in Minnesota.

3) If you go to NYU, your home institution is one of the 4 main NYC programs. Even if you are just an average student, you will have a greater than average chance matching into NYU. Plus all residency directors and faculty in the 4 institutions chat a lot with each other. If someone makes a call on your behalf, it will carry a lot more weight from a faculty member they know from NYU than one they don't know from Minnesota.

Again, I don't think this is a good reason to pick one school over another, but I just felt like when people saying you will have no problems matching if you do well, that's not the best advice. It's incredibly hard to predict how well one does in medical school, largely because your clinical years aren't necessarily about how much work you put into it (but more about luck of who your residents/attendings are, how well you mesh with the team, how efficient you are, etc.).

I'm going to have to agree with jbz24. I was in the midst of making a similar decision with U MN and Georgetown and consulted this video:

http://mediasite.ahc.umn.edu/mediasite/Viewer/?peid=da5fd8676def4b75a104ef2c4d37d03f

It's pretty long but go to about 3 hrs and 31 minutes where the panel of recently matched fourth years talk about their experiences on the interview trail. They touched on what it takes to be granted an interview at a school on the east coast. However, it is possible as one of the students matched into Plastics at Brown.

The entire video is terrific, but its very long. Sorry, this is a video of students of U of MN and you may have to download the plug-in, it only takes about 30 seconds.

 

[brooklynblunder]

plastics @ brown is a mstp student.

This is just my opinion but:

midwesterners are somewhat different from east coast people. they are more likely to have families and stick near their home. its also a state school and people have roots in the state/area and also they are more likely to apply to chicago than in nyc (interview costs can serve as a deterrent).

East cost people are more likely to be single and they almost never ever go below DC. The numbers will be skewed. Minnesota and NYU are both fine schools. If you are somehow already sure about dermatology and doing residency in NYC, you have to ask yourself whether the apparent benefit of going to NYU is more beneficial than the comparative financial ease of going to Minnesota.

I went to nyc for undergrad. the living costs are extravagant. I knew that I want to do residency in the east coast. I am terrible at managing my money but I would like to be able to pay a mortgage and live comfortably, so I avoided applying to the east coast schools and am going to the midwest. According to your expenses, its a 60k difference (+ more with interest). If I was in your situation, I would be more reluctant to have that higher debt and go to NYC/Philly for residency to pay $1800 a month for a 1BR, not being able to save as much money, and no way in hell will you be able to buy your own place. It doesn't seem like a big deal now, but my parents are getting old, i have a much younger brother, I'm pretty independent, my extend family is passing away, getting older = more spending, so (to me) saving money in med school (its just school) allows me to come back east with less stress/more resources.

 

[martino6425]

Thank you again for all your thoughtful advice. Things have changed now because I just got off the Mount Sinai waitlist. Mount Sinai is $36,000, much lower than NYU's $46,000, and almost comparable to Minnesota's $31,000. I also really like Sinai, as the students seem to be very happy. I am a lot more tempted to move to NYC for med school with the Sinai offer (I plan to decline NYU now).

The truth of the matter is, I just want to get out of Minnesota for at least some part of my life. If I go to U of MN, I can easily see myself staying there for residency because it might be harder to leave by then, and then practicing there because I might get tied down in some way. Basically I can see exactly how my whole life would likely unfold. The prospect of going to Sinai is much more exciting because I really don't know where I would end up. If I go there now, I feel like I will have more options later, including the option of returning to MN for residency (if I want to). Of course, this would come with a cost--that of a higher debt load. Is it worth it? Or am I wrong about any of this? Will it be just as easy to get out of the midwest later? I'm 24, and I feel like my 20's is a great time to live in NYC. I don't really know. I have to decide by July 2.

 

[FIREitUP]

sounds like you already decided: go to sinai. the 5k a year isn't really significant enough to make a deciding factor.

 

[Quicky]

Agree on Sinai. It won't be that much more than umn with 36k tuition and subsidized housing.

 

[JmanDO]

Eww, Sinai?

Anyways, I think the move to NYC is a good idea overall, because who is to say you won't change your mind in the next 3 yrs? Perhaps you want a different res, and a school like Sinai/NYU provide better back up options, being stronger in more fields than Minn would be. Cover your bases, it looks like you're set on the city anyways. Good luck.

 

[searun]

Two thumbs up for Sinai. I assume that Sinai, like Columbia and Cornell, has housing for its med students, which will dramatically lower the cost of living in New York City. NYC is a fabulous city for a single person in their med twenties. Spread your wings and fly, experience a whole new environment. It will result in a tremendous amount of personal growth.

I say this as someone from the Pacific Northwest who now is a 4th year med student on the East Coast. It has been a wonderful experience for me. I expect to return to the West eventually, but I will treasure the experiences I have had while living in an urban East Coast environment for the first time.

Go for it. Sinai is a great school.

 

[jbz24]

Thank you again for all your thoughtful advice. Things have changed now because I just got off the Mount Sinai waitlist. Mount Sinai is $36,000, much lower than NYU's $46,000, and almost comparable to Minnesota's $31,000. I also really like Sinai, as the students seem to be very happy. I am a lot more tempted to move to NYC for med school with the Sinai offer (I plan to decline NYU now).

The truth of the matter is, I just want to get out of Minnesota for at least some part of my life. If I go to U of MN, I can easily see myself staying there for residency because it might be harder to leave by then, and then practicing there because I might get tied down in some way. Basically I can see exactly how my whole life would likely unfold. The prospect of going to Sinai is much more exciting because I really don't know where I would end up. If I go there now, I feel like I will have more options later, including the option of returning to MN for residency (if I want to). Of course, this would come with a cost--that of a higher debt load. Is it worth it? Or am I wrong about any of this? Will it be just as easy to get out of the midwest later? I'm 24, and I feel like my 20's is a great time to live in NYC. I don't really know. I have to decide by July 2.

20k (+interest) is a negligible amount of added debt in my opinion when comparing the two schools. I'm certain the housing situation in Minnesota is much better, but for NYC, Sinai arguably has the best housing (sub-600 rent per month). That will help contain costs a bit.

I think if you're set on leaving the midwest at somepoint, now would be the time to do it, especially with an option from a much better school. However, think hard about going to a new place far away from your family - for some people it doesn't matter but for some it may, which could in the long run make you miserable and as a result, do poorly. It's a big chance, just make sure you're prepared for it.