NYU vs. UCLA

[bluemachine]

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hi guys,

never thought id be in this position, but here it is! i was recently accepted off the WL at both of these schools, and am extremely blessed and happy.

here is some background. born and raised in CA (close to UCLA), went to undergrad at an east coast IVY. likely going into internal medicine, but i also would like to do more than just see patients (esp healthcare administration, leadership, research, teaching, etc).

im having a hard time making a pro/con list. cost shouldn't be a concern for me. what do you guys think?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Do you see yourself practicing in the east coast or in California?

 

[bluemachine]

Do you see yourself practicing in the east coast or in California?

my family is all in california, so i guess i would like to practice there. but the thing is that i also really enjoyed my 4 years on the east coast, and can see myself enjoying living and practicing there as well. i also like the cold weather and snow, so weather isn't that big of a problem for me either

 

[Lamel]

This is a pretty great situation to be in.

If you want to match in CA I think UCLA would give you an advantage though.

 

[bluemachine]

though a lot of NYU peoples are from cali, so they dont have a problem matching back to CA if they wanted to either.

i think why this decision is so hard is cause the 2 schools are so similar (aside from location). both are p/f. both have really amazing hospital/clinical experiences, with diverse patient populations. ucla's curricula is 2 years, while nyu's is 1.5. i prefer the 1.5 year curriculum, but i dont think that will be a deal-breaker, esp since both schools do extremely well on step1 (like average 240).

what other factors are there to consider?

 

[Lamel]

though a lot of NYU peoples are from cali, so they dont have a problem matching back to CA if they wanted to either.

i think why this decision is so hard is cause the 2 schools are so similar (aside from location). both are p/f. both have really amazing hospital/clinical experiences, with diverse patient populations. ucla's curricula is 2 years, while nyu's is 1.5. i prefer the 1.5 year curriculum, but i dont think that will be a deal-breaker, esp since both schools do extremely well on step1 (like average 240).

what other factors are there to consider?

Cost. Location (LA v. NYC).

This should be a stress free decision regardless.

 

[bluemachine]

Cost. Location (LA v. NYC).

This should be a stress free decision regardless.

yess def cost and location. but are there smaller things to consider? like maybe contact hours, or research opportunities? or do you guys think that these 2 schools are so similar in the small things that it shouldn't sway a decision one way or the other?

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

what a position to be in! I think these programs are both so great that it'll really just come down to whether you want to stay in Cali or come back to the east coast/NYC. that's really all there is to it. best of luck!

 

[WedgeDawg]

Just fyi, NYU is internally ranked P/F, not true P/F.

 

[s1monxsayz]

Drought vs no drought haha

 

[s1monxsayz]

Drought vs no drought haha

 

[resiroth]

To reiterate, just because a program matches back into California doesn't mean that it's easy to do so (or as easy to do so as another program). It will be significantly easier to go to a California residency coming from UCLA. NYU is a good school too, so if you wanted to go back to California after attending NYU you could try, but it wouldn't be as easy as from UCLA.

2 factors to consider:
They just axed the guy that made NYU a powerhouse. That's why NYU had such a meteoric rise. He was a bit ruthless though, so I understand axing him. The question is will they fall back down the ranks? My guess is probably, but not far below UCLA (may end up being around the same).

New York city. What is your visceral response? Is it "dirty, crowded, loud, expensive" or is it "exciting, opportunity, culture" ?

Hope this helps.

 

[ducksau5]

Who exactly did they axe that made them a powerhouse?

 

[manymoreyearsoftraining]

That's the second time I've seen someone assert that the person responsible for NYU's ranking rise was fired. As an NYU student and someone who interfaces a lot with admin here, I have absolutely no idea what this person is talking about (nobody else here does either). If there's any single person responsible for NYU's ranking ascension it is the dean of the medical school, who isn't going anywhere. That said rankings are, at best, a heuristic and shouldn't be remotely a factor in this decision. I think this comes down to whether you want to live in LA or NYC for the next 4 years. It is easier to match to California from a California school though, so if you're dead set on California UCLA is the move. That said, an NYU degree certainly hasn't stopped people from matching out west.

 

[qw098]

UCLA won't be P/F in new curriculum.

 

[MaybeDr]

2 factors to consider:
They just axed the guy that made NYU a powerhouse. That's why NYU had such a meteoric rise. He was a bit ruthless though, so I understand axing him. The question is will they fall back down the ranks? My guess is probably, but not far below UCLA (may end up being around the same).

New York city. What is your visceral response? Is it "dirty, crowded, loud, expensive" or is it "exciting, opportunity, culture" ?

Hope this helps.

What's this person's name?

 

[Effalcu]

NYU. it's a private school, and the administration is always listening to students and faculty for input in improvement.

 

[miamiheatfan]

@bluemachine Congrats!!! Money being equal, there’s only like 3 schools I’d go to over UCLA haha! You can’t go wrong with either school. I’d rather live in LA than NY so for that I’d pick UCLA!

 

[resiroth]

What's this person's name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sexton#Vote_of_no_confidence.2C_and_votes_of_support
He was basically single-handedly responsible for making NYU a highly ranked school. It's absolutely insane what he accomplished. Normally I look at salaries of college presidents and laugh at how bloated the system is, but he deserves it.

If you look at NYU's research funding it's bonkers how fast they have risen. Their rank is so high because he did such an amazing job of recruiting people with huge grants.

That being said I honestly think NYU will slip down to the 20s and likely 30s after firing him. We shall see! It also might not be a bad thing in terms of the culture. Guy was as ruthless as he was brilliant from what I've heard...

I'll just say this. 6 years ago if someone said NYU (ranked 34 at the time) would be more prestigious than Weill Cornell (ranked 18 at the time) you'd be laughed at. The question is how fast will the fall be?

Also: be weary of new accounts recommending you do X or Y. They're likely on the waitlist at the other school.

 

[22031 Alum]

Honestly, flip a coin, then go to the place you hope for while the coin is in the air. Simple.

Or go to the cheapest place.

Having been in both private and state school environments, I would personally pick a private over a public if cost was no different.


Don't put too much stock in premeds telling you that a university president being fired will change your med school experience in any perceptible way.

 

[MaybeDr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sexton#Vote_of_no_confidence.2C_and_votes_of_support
He was basically single-handedly responsible for making NYU a highly ranked school. It's absolutely insane what he accomplished. Normally I look at salaries of college presidents and laugh at how bloated the system is, but he deserves it.

If you look at NYU's research funding it's bonkers how fast they have risen. Their rank is so high because he did such an amazing job of recruiting people with huge grants.

That being said I honestly think NYU will slip down to the 20s and likely 30s after firing him. We shall see! It also might not be a bad thing in terms of the culture. Guy was as ruthless as he was brilliant from what I've heard...

I'll just say this. 6 years ago if someone said NYU (ranked 34 at the time) would be more prestigious than Weill Cornell (ranked 18 at the time) you'd be laughed at. The question is how fast will the fall be?

Also: be weary of new accounts recommending you do X or Y. They're likely on the waitlist at the other school.

"In addition to his duties as NYU president, Sexton teaches a full faculty course-load." Very impressive. The "during his presidency" section is also pretty insane.

Sorry for the derail.

I'd pick UCLA, nothing like that California sunshine year round.

 

[resiroth]

"In addition to his duties as NYU president, Sexton teaches a full faculty course-load." Very impressive. The "during his presidency" section is also pretty insane.

Sorry for the derail.

I'd pick UCLA, nothing like that California sunshine year round.

Guy is a total beast, and deserves every 800k annual payment during his retirement. He has increased NYU's research funding from 122 million to 245. Not sure how he does it, but I'm sure every other college president wishes they knew!

I would say UCLA but his/her interests seem a bit more diffuse than seeing patients exclusively. I don't know enough about their global health programs but I'd be surprised if NYU was worse than UCLA in that department.

 

[bluemachine]

thank you all for your comments and advice! ultimately, it came down to cost (NYU being like 120k more expensive) and location (CA > NYC), so I will be attending UCLA in the fall!

 

[manymoreyearsoftraining]

Sexton was an interesting president but had literally nothing to do with the medical school. The medical school belongs to NYU in name only but is essentially an autonomously functioning institution. As an NYU med student, I'd be incredibly wary of advice from someone who thinks that Sexton was in any way responsible for the medical school's ranking rise. None of this is to refute the point that UCLA might be a decent choice in this case--more to note that the quality of information on SDN is sometimes less than stellar and often spouted by the loudest and most frequent posters.

 

[resiroth]

Sexton was an interesting president but had literally nothing to do with the medical school. The medical school belongs to NYU in name only but is essentially an autonomously functioning institution. As an NYU med student, I'd be incredibly wary of advice from someone who thinks that Sexton was in any way responsible for the medical school's ranking rise. None of this is to refute the point that UCLA might be a decent choice in this case--more to note that the quality of information on SDN is sometimes less than stellar and often spouted by the loudest and most frequent posters.

Touched on a nerve lol. Sorry, you're clearly not familiar with what's actually going on. Dr. Sexton single-handledly created a culture of poaching professors from other institutions with astronomical compensation packages. Maybe if you're not plugged into the academic field you aren't aware of this, but basically giving people summer home loans and "moving" packages or charging them "rent" on multimillion dollar homes. That's why he received votes of no confidence from the faculty at large -- they weren't getting the fancy houses, but these new hires with millions of dollars of NIH funding were. Strange how that works out.

I'll give you this tidbit. The law and medical school professors benefited most financially from his management. Which is why they were the ONLY groups voting for support of Sexton, by a wide margin! Suffice to say the film school wasn't happy with med professors receiving huge financial packages while they struggled to afford a 1 bedroom.

If you think giving loans out like candy for million dollar summer homes, charging "rent" in multimillion dollar primary residencies and offering generous "relocation" packages didn't cause NYU's funding to double over the last decade you're crazy.

I do think NYU is a good school, but the primary reason its ranking has skyrocketed is because their funding has increased so much. Not hard to do that if you're giving people gobs of money to relocate.

Only interesting thing I'm observing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sexton#President_of_New_York_University

This guy was responsible for making NYU good, with some house of cards-style tactics perhaps but still...anyway after some votes of no confidence he's basically being fired in 2016. They went from 140 million of NIH funding in 2010 to 245 million in 2014, which is insane.

I am REALLY curious as to how this impacts NYU's stratospheric ascent. Wasn't it like #35 5 years ago?

I wonder what gyngyn thinks will happen. Very few people 5 years ago would have said NYU would be ranked higher than cornell/sinai. Will they coast? Will they plummet? Will they manage to keep the momentum?

It's no secret that there is some significant leadership change all the way down to Associate Dean level as well.

And hey, maybe NYU will manage to keep the momentum up. They're in NYC...if they can hold onto who they have now then maybe it will work...but if compensation drops --> faculty are poached --> funding goes down --> ranking goes down...then maybe it will return to whence it came....We'll see what happens in the next decade 🙂.

EDIT: I find it funny that a throwaway account is telling someone you can't be sure who to trust on SDN. Your first (and only) two posts on this forum are defending NYU. At least given your posting history I'd say you're more likely to have been waitlisted at UCLA than a NYU med student but whatever.

 

[manymoreyearsoftraining]

For the record, I said UCLA was probably the better decision in this case (but I'll take the hit on the throwaway account--anonymity is important). That said, the med center accounts for 5/6 revenue dollars in the entire NYU umbrella. If you think the tail doesn't wag the dog (in this case securing compensation packages and housing) you're willfully ignorant. Hamilton is going to do whatever the medical center says is necessary to keep it competitive.

Anyway, I think the best reasons to pick NYU have absolutely nothing to do with rank and haven't changed at all since NYU was ranked 34 (Bellevue, great location, very responsive administration, strong teaching all around, and great community). Believe it or not, I really am a proud medical student here, but have the capacity to acknowledge that there are a lot of great schools that will serve students well.