pre-med post-bacs - Columbia vs UPenn

[dcc]

Hi everyone,
I am planning to move with my boyfriend this fall who just got accepted to UPenn and Columbia phd programs. I recently realized I really want to go to med school. As an art major in undergrad (3.69 UPenn) i didn't do any pre-med coursework unless you count a semester of calc. So as we decide where to go I am trying to compare their pre-med post-bac programs and would appreciate any advice.

I know Columbia's post-bac is supposed to be pretty intense and I saw a post on here from a few years back saying Columbia only has around a 50% attrition rate - is that true? anyone have stats on UPenn and other schools?

Thank you!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[student1799]

Hi everyone,
I am planning to move with my boyfriend this fall who just got accepted to UPenn and Columbia phd programs. I recently realized I really want to go to med school. As an art major in undergrad (3.69 UPenn) i didn't do any pre-med coursework unless you count a semester of calc. So as we decide where to go I am trying to compare their pre-med post-bac programs and would appreciate any advice.

I know Columbia's post-bac is supposed to be pretty intense and I saw a post on here from a few years back saying Columbia only has around a 50% attrition rate - is that true? anyone have stats on UPenn and other schools?

Thank you!

There's a whole separate SDN forum for postbacc and SMP programs (it's under Interdisciplinary), and I think you'd get a better response posting it there. This subforum is intended for discussions of specific medical schools that students have applied or might apply to.

Having said that, I'll add that I went to Columbia postbacc myself (finished classes last spring, applied last summer, got first acceptance recently). It is VERY intense, the attrition is indeed high, and the program is quite expensive ($1200 per credit). Don't know anything about Penn, though.

I'm not sure why you say the attrition is "only" 50%; that means that about half the students drop out of the program before finishing. (I'm not sure exactly what the percentage is, but I'd estimate 30-50%.) That means that their success rate in getting students into med school is overstated, because those that drop out before applying aren't counted. I'd say that this imethod of calculating success rates is the norm at postbacc programs, but attrition rates vary, so it would be wise to inquire about this before deciding where to go.

 

[dcc]

Thanks for the input!
Sorry for the mis-wording with the attrition rate - you're right - i meant to say 50% seems extremly high.
As far as expense, Penn and other schools seem to be just as much...
I'll post on the other section of this forum as recommended!
Thanks again

 

[RoadRunner17]

Penn should be cheaper as the classes you'll be taking are night classes. Unless you specifically opt for the day classes, then you'll pay the normal daytime tuition that you paid as an undergrad.

I wouldn't focus on the attrition rate. Both programs are going to be tough. Look at it this way: You are gonna have to bust your chops at either place. Being successful then means that you can take advantage of the linkage programs available. I don't know much about Columbia's program but Penn has a lot of linkage agreements, starting with Penn, Pittsburgh, Jefferson, Drexel, Mt. Sinai etc. so if you do very well (and you already have a 3.69 GPA) in the program and on the MCAT, you'll get a better shot at the school you choose to link to than the typical applicant applying through the normal process.

If you're looking for strong advising, I wouldn't look to Penn. They won't really hold your hands there, though they will provide a good composite letter (must have been more than solid, as I got into med schools with a crap GPA). But all the work is there for you to do, no question about it.

 

[Frida13]

U PENN PROGRAM SUCKS....I KNOW TWO PEOPLE THAT GOT ALL A's in the program yet did not get into medical school when they applied the first time. They paid tons of money and it all went down the toilet! They both thought it was a waste of time and money.

 

[riceman04]

U PENN PROGRAM SUCKS....I KNOW TWO PEOPLE THAT GOT ALL A's in the program yet did not get into medical school when they applied the first time. They paid tons of money and it all went down the toilet! They both thought it was a waste of time and money.

There must be something BOTH of your friends are not telling you b/c I and roadrunner are having success. We all come in with different circumstances, but the acceptance rate for both of Penn's postbacc programs is fairly high.

You get out what you put into the program

 

[pietachok]

The Columbia program is an awful waste of money. If i could do it again i would just go to Hunter College and pay much less (assuming you go to NYC). Get letters of rec from your undergrad profs and volunteer, etc. on your own without an adviser telling you to do it.

I got no advising from Columbia. When I asked for help picking a list of schools to apply to, I was asked "where would you like to live."

I am applying now for the 3rd year in a row. The first 2 years I didn't get any interviews at all and I was using my committee letter from Columbia's postbacc program. Finally I stopped using my committee letter and this year I got 7 M.D. interviews and a bunch of D.O. interviews. There was no reason for them to write a bad rec for me...I had a dean point blank tell me not to use my committee letter.

This year during interviews I have met students at nearly every school who also had bad experiences. One had her committee letter sent out with the wrong name. My coworker also didn't get in any schools. I think they fudge their acceptance rate by counting people as withdrawn from the program who aren't...b/c I know so many people who didn't get into med school compared to how high their acceptance rate is claimed to be.

Additionally, although this may not be applicable to you, they didn't give any advice on the additional stuff i would need to apply to D.O. school, so when I wanted to do that, I didn't have the appropriate LOR's for that.

 

[BTC]

No post-bac program is a surefire way into medical school. Pick the school that has the highest acceptance rate (including attrition).

If you're starting from scratch with regard to shadowing, volunteering, and research, I don't know if a one year intensive post-bac is the right choice. There is a lot more to applying to medical school than pre-reqs and you need to have either gotten a good head start on those other aspects or to choose a program that gives you enough time to work on the rest of your application.

I did a two year post-bac but completed all the pre-reqs in one year and then did a second year of upper divisional courses. In that first year, I also volunteered and did all the community service stuff, but I cannot imagine applying and studying for the MCAT on top of the course load and community service.

You only have one shot at this, take the time to do it right.

 

[dcc]

Wow, thanks everyone for all the input.

RoadRunner17 - you were right about the price! At a glance I had just looked at the tuition price *per-credit not digging to notice that at Columbia a single science course with lab is 4-6.5 credits! - whereas at Penn it's usually 1.5. It looks like Penn is substantially less expensive.
After going to Penn for undergrad I was not expecting much from them in the way of an advising program - but I'm ok with seeking out what help I need.

I guess the are always going to be people out of any program that didn't have a good experience and didn't get in, those stories do sound rough though.

BTC - I definitely am going to take 2 years to do any program. I want to ease into it a bit and have the time to do plenty of volunteering/research ect. That's impressive though that you DID all the pre-reqs in one year but kept taking higher level courses the next year anyway - I guess that's one way to differentiate yourself - and sort of avoid the glide year too.

 

[BTC]

In my case, I saw it as necessary. My ugrad gpa was abysmal so I needed to demonstrate my abilities.

 

[DoctoraLatina]

Hi! You probably already made your decision about where to go to post-bacc, as did you boyfriend for his grad work. Just in case you didn't, here's my 2 cents. I strongly considered Columbia and Hopkins for post-bacc. Ultimately, I went to a state university with a decent science reputation. No official post-bacc program, no hand-holding, no advising, huge classes... and a fraction of the tuition costs! I feel like at this point, I knew what I wanted... to be a doctor! I was able to work full time in a hospital while studying, get all As, pay tuition completely and save. Now I've been accepted to some top allopathic programs and I definitely made the right choice for me. It took a lot more motivation and independent investigation to find out what I needed to do, what outside experiences I wanted, etc, but in the end it definitely paid off. Good luck!

 

[dcc]

Thanks for the input!

After more reseach I started thinking your right, and if we had ended up in NY I think I would've gone Hunter or the City college. But we did make our decision - and we're heading to Philadelphia.

Now it's either Bryn Mawr - if I get in after my interview - or Penn. Both substantially cheaper than Columbia, and BM seems actually worth every penny of the price. If I don't get into BM I would consider the cheap state school option too - that is, if I knew of such an option in Philadelphia. Temple and Drexel aren't markably if at all cheaper.

Anyone know of any cheap philly options?

 

[silentsiren]

Hi to all!

Just wanted to see if I could ask a few questions to you experienced post bac and non traditional students. I am curious to know if it is possible to get all preprequisites done in one year. I have calculus and would need to take the rest. Anyone ever tried this?

also does anyone have any thoughts on the following programs...

NYU post bacc
Columbia (I read the above statements)
Loyola
Georgetown
University of Vermont


I am choosing between the above or going home to cincinnati and taking classes at the University of Cincinnati.

Any ideas of advice would be much appreciated.

THANK YOU !!