RANT HERE thread

[wheelin2vetmed]

Well written. Did you already send it?

Ya, a few days ago. No response yet. I'm hoping they forwarded it to the disability officer lady.

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[NStarz]

VIRMP letter of intent: I hate you.

My vet school personal statement was not this hard to write

 

[jmo1012]

VIRMP letter of intent: I hate you.

My vet school personal statement was not this hard to write

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

that is all.

 

[orca2011]

One of my equine patients just ruined out relationship. He's been here for a superrrrr long time (like coming up on a year) so he's getting sick of being here and starting to act up (rightfully so). Well, all of last week he was really good for me (and I'm not a very experienced horse person) in that he'd let me enter the stall and do all his treatments without assistance. The last two days he's started acting up and giving me a hard time about entering his stall. Today he had a complete meltdown and was pacing back and forth and actually bucking and trying to kick me, so I needed to be rescued so I could give him his meds. It just made me sad that he's decided he now hates me. I was always good about giving him treats every time I interacted with him in the hopes that I'd keep being viewed as something positive.

 

[Pugsforlove2014]

First time being on the other side of the phone talking to a receptionist at a vet's clinic. I just moved so we have to go to one that I don't work at since I'm a student full time. Wow I've gotta say, she was super pushy, but the clinic comes highly recommended so there it is doesn't matter.

 

[deleted498041]

I saw some textbooks at ACVS that I really wanted to buy, but couldn't stomach the cost so I told myself I'd look them up online and see if I could find them anywhere cheaper... But I didn't write down the name, the author, the publishing company. Now I can't find them Anyone know of any surgery texts that have different books for orthopedics, soft tissue, and a couple other things with a very plain cover, lots of white, and just a dog on the front? The textbooks have little text but a lot of pictures.

 

[Jess Monster]

Today I'll be at home tapping my foot, waiting for a person to call me about a job interview. I jumped through the hoops she wanted me to and paid out $100 to order a transcript and file an application for a professional registration which I just received in the mail today. I emailed this person a week ago and left a phone message on Friday so I've covered my communication bases and I deserve to have an answer. I'll be upset if they already interviewed or hired someone because without specific work experience that professional registration is just an expensive, useless piece of paper.... and why bother contacting me at all if you aren't going to wait at least a week for me to get the materials together to apply for the registration, right?

If it doesn't work out, I hope more SIT jobs open up very soon so that I didn't just waste my money and time.

 

[jmo1012]

when you are asking for a colleagues opinion on facebook, kindly also state that you are only looking for opinions that support yours if you are only looking for people to support your poor choice of a drug we have next to no studies on, have multiple other better options, and has some very serious side effects. should also know that if when i recommend reviewing the literature to become more familiar with the drugs (because you clearly arent if you are considering this particular drug for your pet), that i am going to laugh at you when you say that obviously you've done tons of research and thats why you're asking. gooooooood luck.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Application pulled and interview canceled. Didn't even receive a phone call, just a short email.

Sad that it's still like this in the year 2015. Here's to hoping a US vet school wants me .

 

[katashark]

Application pulled and interview canceled. Didn't even receive a phone call, just a short email.

Sad that it's still like this in the year 2015. Here's to hoping a US vet school wants me .

Oh my gosh. I'm sorry they acted like that. A school will accept you and be a better fit than that UK school.

 

[deleted498041]

Application pulled and interview canceled. Didn't even receive a phone call, just a short email.

Sad that it's still like this in the year 2015. Here's to hoping a US vet school wants me .

That sucks, I'm sorry. I know my school has a lot of accommodations put into place for people with disabilities. I'll admit it bothers me sometimes because some students are allowed to essentially just not do portions of activities that are mandatory and graded for everyone else, essentially getting a free pass, but I totally get it a lot of the times especially when those students recognize their limitations and have no desire to do surgery or large animal medicine. Hope it works out for you!

 

[alohacat319]

Application pulled and interview canceled. Didn't even receive a phone call, just a short email.

Sad that it's still like this in the year 2015. Here's to hoping a US vet school wants me .

Sorry about that! You'll get in at the right place. I have faith.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

I'll admit it bothers me sometimes because some students are allowed to essentially just not do portions of activities that are mandatory and graded for everyone else, essentially getting a free pass, but I totally get it a lot of the times especially when those students recognize their limitations and have no desire to do surgery or large animal medicine. Hope it works out for you!

Is it a free pass, like you say? Do they still have to learn the material? I'm super chill about disability related stuff so don't take this as me being combative, I'm just wondering. To tell you the truth, I probably thought the same way you did a few years ago. Hell, I honestly don't remember ever interacting with a person in a wheelchair for 25 years of my life. But now, almost 4 years post-injury, I've lived on both sides of the fence and have really come to understand and appreciate hurdles that people go through, regardless of situation or disability.

It's all perspective, but "favorings" are made each and every day for a number of reasons: the super pretty girl who's treated differently than her peers by a vet school professor, the native individual who (according to the vet I shadowed) was admitted to his Canadian vet school with lower grades because spots are held for that demographic, the white person who's hired over the equally capable black person because of some longstanding prejudice a committee member holds, the wheelchair user who's offered accommodations etc, etc.

I welcome compromise, not just because it's part of my life now, but because I think it offers society a chance to be better and more tolerant. I went from a professional athlete to what many may call severely disabled in a split second. It truly can happen to anyone, and I'm sure you would be devastated and upset if you were told you could no longer pursue the career you know you were capable of undertaking simply because you couldn't walk, ESPECIALLY when it could be done with some experimentation and a few tweaks here or there.

 

[hazelmoo]

That sucks, I'm sorry. I know my school has a lot of accommodations put into place for people with disabilities. I'll admit it bothers me sometimes because some students are allowed to essentially just not do portions of activities that are mandatory and graded for everyone else, essentially getting a free pass, but I totally get it a lot of the times especially when those students recognize their limitations and have no desire to do surgery or large animal medicine. Hope it works out for you!

I get what you're saying, but when I see some people who don't have to do certain things because of their disability, I think of their situation and how it can sometimes not be helped. For instance, my SO had an above-the-knee amputation and is extremely limited in the types of physical activities he can do. At my university, students are required to take 2 semesters of PFW. He essentially got a "free pass" because of his disability, and doesn't have to pay for or take those classes since he physically cannot perform the mandatory fitness testing at the beginning and end of each semester. Anyways, at first I was like "GRRR, I STILL HAVE TO TAKE THESE POINTLESS CLASSES BUT YOU DON'T", but then I changed my perspective to "well, I have to take these classes, but I also have two legs. Would I rather have only one leg and have things be a little bit easier by not having to take these classes, or perform certain things that others do? Hell no!".

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

For instance, my SO had an above-the-knee amputation and is extremely limited in the types of physical activities he can do.

Damn amputees. Stop complaining about your missing legs, you got it easy

 

[hazelmoo]

Damn amputees. Stop complaining about your missing legs, you got it easy

LOL, he's such a brat... He used to be super into sports like you and it's hard because he can't really play any of the sports he used to, but at least he can walk! And he just got a $40,000 running leg and doesn't use it because he "doesn't have time". Hopefully having more physical therapy will make him more confident in his moving abilities but really, I'm always telling him how much worse it could be! At least he didn't die (which he almost did)

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

LOL, he's such a brat... He used to be super into sports like you and it's hard because he can't really play any of the sports he used to, but at least he can walk! And he just got a $40,000 running leg and doesn't use it because he "doesn't have time".

That's all him, not his missing leg! I felt like that for the first year, especially with skiing and jumping, but then I started exploring what's out there. It's never going to be the same, ever. Mono-skiing is amazing; if he's a skiier, he'd absolutely love it. I have a lot of contacts for various things, feel free to contact me anytime.

 

[deleted498041]

Is it a free pass, like you say? Do they still have to learn the material? I'm super chill about disability related stuff so don't take this as me being combative, I'm just wondering. To tell you the truth, I probably thought the same way you did a few years ago. Hell, I honestly don't remember ever interacting with a person in a wheelchair for 25 years of my life. But now, almost 4 years post-injury, I've lived on both sides of the fence and have really come to understand and appreciate hurdles that people go through, regardless of situation or disability.

It's all perspective, but "favorings" are made each and every day for a number of reasons: the super pretty girl who's treated differently than her peers by a vet school professor, the native individual who (according to the vet I shadowed) was admitted to his Canadian vet school with lower grades because spots are held for that demographic, the white person who's hired over the equally capable black person because of some longstanding prejudice a committee member holds, the wheelchair user who's offered accommodations etc, etc.

I welcome compromise, not just because it's part of my life now, but because I think it offers society a chance to be better and more tolerant. I went from a professional athlete to what many may call severely disabled in a split second. It truly can happen to anyone, and I'm sure you would be devastated and upset if you were told you could no longer pursue the career you know you were capable of undertaking simply because you couldn't walk, ESPECIALLY when it could be done with some experimentation and a few tweaks here or there.

Is it a free pass for the situation I'm talking about? Yes. I don't want to get into too many specifics because I don't particularly enjoy badmouthing classmates, and I'd rather not call anyone out, but there are some (I want to stress the "some" part of this. There are a fair number of students with accommodations in my program and a lot of them work just as hard as the rest of us and have to complete the same practicums and exams) students who are given a free pass. Yes, they do have to learn the same material but they're not tested on the same basis as everyone else. Now, I completely get being allowed to amend a rubric for something like suturing in order to take into consideration that a student may not be able to hold their needle drivers in a certain way due to an inherited muscle disorder or something of the sort. I understand that student getting more time. What I don't like is when the students who receive these accommodations don't show up to class, don't study, and don't work on the skills that will be tested. Yes, we can tell when you skip class every day "to study" and that studying isn't actually happening. In addition to that, I don't like when those students who don't put in any work, because they have accommodations, don't face any repercussions as a result of that. Just to give one particular example: having a physical disability that makes it a little harder for you to hold instruments, or remain standing and mobile for long periods of time does not give you an excuse to incise into the linea scalpel pointing perpendicular to the abdomen, especially when this is at the end of your surgery rotation. You should know better by now, and that knowledge has nothing to do with your disability. I want to stress that I know this person and their disability -- I'm not just assuming things about them and what they can and cannot do

I have worked with some of these students extensively as a result of us being put in the same groups time and time again. I have seen how little effort they put in and god, it frustrates me. On the other hand, some of the other students I know with accommodations work so much harder than I could even imagine.

I guess my point is that reasonable accommodations should be made. I don't think anyone could argue that, and I don't think anyone could argue that you in particular shouldn't be admitted to vet school just because you're in a wheelchair. That being said, I think that my school, at the very least, needs to be a little bit more adamant about sticking to what's required after making accommodations. If you have extensive accommodations made for you, and you're still struggling, some conversations need to be had. The "free pass" comment was more reserved for students in my class, not so much meant as a blanket statement so I hope I didn't offend!

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

I hope I didn't offend!

Don't worry, you didn't. That's part of the problem right there as well: too much accommodating, tip-toeing around so no one offends, and not applying standards in the face of leniency. There needs to be a happy medium, but that's a problem with your institution, and those students should absolutely be held accountable.

I see your side of the argument. People utilizing their disability to get off easy compared to their able-bodied counterparts makes it harder for those of us who really want to be there and prove ourselves.

 

[TotesMahGoats]

...
As an athlete who trains at the Paralympic level, I can tell you right now (not in a boastful way) that I am likely in better physical shape and have greater strength than a number of your current vet students. If an extremely short, tiny, frail woman applied to your veterinary program and was accepted, how would she fare in the realm of large animal manipulation and restrain? Would you not let her into the program because she was weak and would likely need assistance? Probably not.

..It's all perspective, but "favorings" are made each and every day for a number of reasons: the super pretty girl who's treated differently than her peers by a vet school professor, the native individual who (according to the vet I shadowed) was admitted to his Canadian vet school with lower grades because spots are held for that demographic, the white person who's hired over the equally capable black person because of some longstanding prejudice a committee member holds, the wheelchair user who's offered accommodations etc, etc.

Look, I understand that you didn't mean this the wrong way, and that you are understandably upset with them for the bull**** hand they've dealt you. 100% on your side there, and I too would have sent them a letter.

However, as a 'short, tiny, frail woman,' your post comes off as slightly offensive. You don't need to put another group of people down in order to make yourself look capable. You're better than that. Secondly, I have trained horses for years, restrained all different kinds of livestock, and have pulled my weight when working with large animals, even though I barely weigh more than 100 pounds soaking wet. No one can out-muscle large animals--it's all about leverage. By suggesting your strength, show's your ignorance on this subject. I've seen plenty of large, strong men be completely useless holding a dog, let alone a horse.

I'm probably coming off as too sensitive, but I have often had to prove my worth to people who look at me and see 'short, tiny, frail woman.' I'll never compare being a woman to being disabled, but that doesn't mean it's a walk in the park. People assume we're worthless, and then suggest we get special favors.

I'm sure you have to prove your worth to people who look at you and think something very similar.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Look, I understand that you didn't mean this the wrong way, and that you are understandably upset with them for the bull**** hand they've dealt you. 100% on your side there, and I too would have sent them a letter.

However, as a 'short, tiny, frail woman,' your post comes off as slightly offensive. You don't need to put another group of people down in order to make yourself look capable. You're better than that. Secondly, I have trained horses for years, restrained all different kinds of livestock, and have pulled my weight when working with large animals, even though I barely weigh more than 100 pounds soaking wet. No one can out-muscle large animals--it's all about leverage. By suggesting your strength, show's your ignorance on this subject. I've seen plenty of large, strong men be completely useless holding a dog, let alone a horse.

I'm probably coming off as too sensitive, but I have often had to prove my worth to people who look at me and see 'short, tiny, frail woman.' I'll never compare being a woman to being disabled, but that doesn't mean it's a walk in the park. People assume we're worthless, and then suggest we get special favors.

I'm sure you have to prove your worth to people who look at you and think something very similar.

I can be pretty upfront when I speak my mind, so I apologize for offending you. I also agree that I am pretty ignorant when it comes to large animals, so consider my argument moot if it's completely off base. The point of the email was to offer other scenarios that feel like grounds for the RVC to deny entrance into the program. "Tiny, weak, and frail" was as descriptor, as was blind in one eye, as was a dude in a wheelchair. Finally, pretty women are treated differently, that's pretty well understood and proven time and time again. It's not universal, but it'd be naive to say it doesn't happen.

I was just pointing stuff out.

 

[Caiter92]

Finally, pretty women are treated differently, that's pretty well understood and proven time and time again. It's not universal, but it'd be naive to say it doesn't happen.

I was just pointing stuff out.

Yes, they sometimes are. Often those "favors" and "special treatment" include being sexually harassed in some form or another as well. Or that special treatment is because the personally (generally a man) doesn't think the woman can perform as well as her male cohorts and she needs the special treatment to succeed. Either way, it's sexist and condescending as hell, and not appreciated by the recipient.

 

[alohacat319]

I can be pretty upfront when I speak my mind, so I apologize for offending you. I also agree that I am pretty ignorant when it comes to large animals, so consider my argument moot if it's completely off base. The point of the email was to offer other scenarios that feel like grounds for the RVC to deny entrance into the program. "Tiny, weak, and frail" was as descriptor, as was blind in one eye, as was a dude in a wheelchair. Finally, pretty women are treated differently, that's pretty well understood and proven time and time again. It's not universal, but it'd be naive to say it doesn't happen.

I was just pointing stuff out.

I will be the first to admit, being pretty does have it's advantages. Without intending to be vain, I understand this completely, and will admit that it has given me an advantage at times. I knowingly use this to my advantage even, dressing nicely and wearing small amounts of makeup that highlight certain features. I also qualify as tiny, however I refuse to call myself "weak or frail." However, it does bother me when people generalize my success being strictly due to the fact that genetically, I was/am lucky. Or to assume that I don't deserve to be where I am or that my life is easier. I have worked incredibly hard to get where I am. My success is due to my intelligence, my work ethic, not my parent's ability to create a pretty daughter.

I personally don't think these should give anyone an advantage or disadvantage solely because of genetics, however with the way society is today, it does. Just as being certain minorities gives advantages and disadvantages in different scenarios. Food for thought, but without having experienced someone else's battles, it really isn't fair to say that they have an unfair advantage, because you likely don't understand the repercussions that come along with it as well.

 

[hazelmoo]

Yes, they sometimes are. Often those "favors" and "special treatment" include being sexually harassed in some form or another as well. Or that special treatment is because the personally (generally a man) doesn't think the woman can perform as well as her male cohorts and she needs the special treatment to succeed. Either way, it's sexist and condescending as hell, and not appreciated by the recipient.

Reminds me of what happened yesterday.. I work in a lab that has lots of venomous snakes, and I've been learning how to safely catch them, draw blood, etc etc. Yesterday was the first time I have been able to hook them by myself and get them in a barrel to clean their enclosures. A guy in my lab works as an assistant, who hates snakes and has no interest in them. But, he very clearly feels like he should be the one hooking them and learning how to handle them, not me. Yesterday he tried to take my hook and hand me a broom to "clean up"... And he made some pretty sexist and condescending comments when our superior told me I had done a really good job. All I could do was laugh, but it's actually sad that he has the mindset that he is more able to do certain things just because he's a guy, even though he has no prior experience with snakes at all :/
I feel like this is going to be an interesting hurdle to overcome in the veterinary field, especially since I have worked with multiple men who have this mindset.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Yes, they sometimes are. Often those "favors" and "special treatment" include being sexually harassed in some form or another as well. Or that special treatment is because the personally (generally a man) doesn't think the woman can perform as well as her male cohorts and she needs the special treatment to succeed. Either way, it's sexist and condescending as hell, and not appreciated by the recipient.

Come on now, I wasn't going down that path!

I personally don't think these should give anyone an advantage or disadvantage solely because of genetics, however with the way society is today, it does. Just as being certain minorities gives advantages and disadvantages in different scenarios. Food for thought, but without having experienced someone else's battles, it really isn't fair to say that they have an unfair advantage, because you likely don't understand the repercussions that come along with it as well.

Absolutely agree, and I never said that I understand anyone else's battles or stated that any particular person's situation is rainbows and butterflies. I simply pointed out different occasions where one person is favored over another.

 

[alohacat319]

Absolutely agree, and I never said that I understand anyone else's battles or stated that any particular person's situation is rainbows and butterflies. I simply pointed out different occasions where one person is favored over another.

I can agree with that part ️

 

[FeartheDogMonky]

 

[dyachei]

I can be pretty upfront when I speak my mind, so I apologize for offending you. I also agree that I am pretty ignorant when it comes to large animals, so consider my argument moot if it's completely off base. The point of the email was to offer other scenarios that feel like grounds for the RVC to deny entrance into the program. "Tiny, weak, and frail" was as descriptor, as was blind in one eye, as was a dude in a wheelchair. Finally, pretty women are treated differently, that's pretty well understood and proven time and time again. It's not universal, but it'd be naive to say it doesn't happen.

I was just pointing stuff out.

I will be the first to admit, being pretty does have it's advantages. Without intending to be vain, I understand this completely, and will admit that it has given me an advantage at times. I knowingly use this to my advantage even, dressing nicely and wearing small amounts of makeup that highlight certain features. I also qualify as tiny, however I refuse to call myself "weak or frail." However, it does bother me when people generalize my success being strictly due to the fact that genetically, I was/am lucky. Or to assume that I don't deserve to be where I am or that my life is easier. I have worked incredibly hard to get where I am. My success is due to my intelligence, my work ethic, not my parent's ability to create a pretty daughter.

I personally don't think these should give anyone an advantage or disadvantage solely because of genetics, however with the way society is today, it does. Just as being certain minorities gives advantages and disadvantages in different scenarios. Food for thought, but without having experienced someone else's battles, it really isn't fair to say that they have an unfair advantage, because you likely don't understand the repercussions that come along with it as well.

so my anatomy professor in vet school definitely had a type he enjoyed looking at. Blond haired and well endowed females. he would go out of his way to help those students, make time for office hours for them, etc. Our class didn't have enough of those, so he made the course harder (he admitted this later) than he did for the next year where there were more of his type. He told me I should break off my engagement with my now husband so I could study anatomy more when I went to ask for help...

It totally happens sometimes, which is what I think W2VM was trying to get at. Someone will always have an unfair advantage and someone else will always be at a disadvantage. It's human nature.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

so my anatomy professor in vet school definitely had a type he enjoyed looking at. Blond haired and well endowed females. he would go out of his way to help those students, make time for office hours for them, etc. Our class didn't have enough of those, so he made the course harder (he admitted this later) than he did for the next year where there were more of his type. He told me I should break off my engagement with my now husband so I could study anatomy more when I went to ask for help...

It totally happens sometimes, which is what I think W2VM was trying to get at. Someone will always have an unfair advantage and someone else will always be at a disadvantage. It's human nature.

He admitted what he was doing and the school was okay with that? How did he still have a job?

 

[dyachei]

He admitted what he was doing and the school was okay with that? How did he still have a job?

I'm really not sure other than tenure

 

[battie]

However, as a 'short, tiny, frail woman,' your post comes off as slightly offensive. You don't need to put another group of people down in order to make yourself look capable.

See, I didn't find this offensive at all. I am five foot nothing, 115/120 chick and I feel he has a point. There are certainly "short, tiny, frail" women who should not be veterinarians because of their physical capabilities. There are some women out there who could not physically do the job, and I think that was W2VM's point. I would never try to be a firefighter simply because I'm physically incapable of doing it. That can be extrapolated to being a veterinarian to a certain extent. I don't think he was point another group down at all.

 

[missdarjeeling]

There are certainly "short, tiny, frail" women who should not be veterinarians because of their physical capabilities.

Really? So a "short, tiny, frail" woman "should not" be allowed into the veterinary profession because of her physical capabilities? How is that any less absurd than saying that people in wheelchairs shouldn't become vets? What exactly is the height and weight requirement for working in vet med?

 

[battie]

Really? So a "short, tiny, frail" woman "should not" be allowed into the veterinary profession because of her physical capabilities? How is that any less absurd than saying that people in wheelchairs shouldn't become vets? What exactly is the height and weight requirement for working in vet med?

Did I not just say that I consider myself as part of the "deprecated" group? Yes I did. Obviously I don't think that every single woman who is short, tiny, or frail, or else I'd be shooting myself in the foot. I said there are women that shouldn't become veterinarians because of their physical capabilities, where shortness, tinyness, and frailty could be a factor. Not everyone is physically capable of doing everything. There's no way around that. I have close friends and family that I would never want to be around a large animal because they are not physically strong enough to control that animal in a safe manner. I mean this in such a strict sense, it's not even funny. I wouldn't let them near the horses I rode during shows because they simply did not have the capabilities to be safe.

Did I say, "Every woman who is short, tiny, and frail cannot be a veterinarian!"? No I didn't. I said there are women under those categories that shouldn't be; and I'd have no problem extrapolating that to men, either.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

What exactly is the height and weight requirement for working in vet med?

At RVC, there doesn't seem like there is one, you just can't be using a wheelchair. I'm curious if someone with dwarfism who's the same height as me sitting down would be admitted into the program.

 

[dyachei]

Did I not just say that I consider myself as part of the "deprecated" group? Yes I did. Obviously I don't think that every single woman who is short, tiny, or frail, or else I'd be shooting myself in the foot. I said there are women that shouldn't become veterinarians because of their physical capabilities, where shortness, tinyness, and frailty could be a factor. Not everyone is physically capable of doing everything. There's no way around that. I have close friends and family that I would never want to be around a large animal because they are not physically strong enough to control that animal in a safe manner. I mean this in such a strict sense, it's not even funny. I wouldn't let them near the horses I rode during shows because they simply did not have the capabilities to be safe.

Did I say, "Every woman who is short, tiny, and frail cannot be a veterinarian!"? No I didn't. I said there are women under those categories that shouldn't be; and I'd have no problem extrapolating that to men, either.

if I had known in undergrad what I do now about my connective tissue...yeah. I shouldn't have gone into vet med. And I wasn't shy in telling others with the same issues about my limitations now. so yeah. I agree. Different people shouldn't be in programs for different reasons.

 

[battie]

At RVC, there doesn't seem like there is one, you just can't be using a wheelchair.

I'm thinking this was a sassy question aimed at me and not really a serious one.

 

[missdarjeeling]

I said there are women that shouldn't become veterinarians because of their physical capabilities, where shortness, tinyness, and frailty could be a factor.

It's the "should"/"shouldn't" that's grating my nerves. Who are you to decide who should and shouldn't become a vet based on their physical characteristics? Why can't a frail person who isn't good at restraining horses be a pathologist or an ophthalmologist? Why can't they go into any of the dozens of fields that don't require physical strength and dexterity?

This is all reminding me of a particularly nasty client we saw in emergency once. One of our attending ER vets was deaf and was one of the most amazing doctors I've ever worked with. When the client was told their doctor is deaf, they freaked out on the assistant and "how could you give us someone like that?" and "how are they even allowed to be a doctor?". Ugh, makes me sick just thinking about it.

Not everyone is physically capable of doing everything.

And the point is that people like W2VM who aren't physically capable of doing everything can still do enough to complete the curriculum and have many job options to choose from once they graduate. Judging whether someone would be great at restraining horses shouldn't be the criterion for determining whether someone "should" be a vet.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

There are some women out there who could not physically do the job, and I think that was W2VM's point. I would never try to be a firefighter simply because I'm physically incapable of doing it. That can be extrapolated to being a veterinarian to a certain extent. I don't think he was point another group down at all.

This was exactly my point, and I will finish with this, as I don't want to change the direction of this thread:

I would likely not try to be a large animal veterinarian because I'm fairly certain a lot of it would be physically impossible for me. But, I don't feel that way about small animal medicine and other areas in the field. If schools like RVC and others continue to require an unmodified curriculum, then I guess I'm **** out of luck.

 

[Coquette22]

I have close friends and family that I would never want to be around a large animal because they are not physically strong enough to control that animal in a safe manner. I mean this in such a strict sense, it's not even funny. I wouldn't let them near the horses I rode during shows because they simply did not have the capabilities to be safe.

It does not matter how big, burly or strong you are, if you're trying to do something to a horse or cow that doesn't want to be involved (especially if you're doing something painful and/or invasive), the horse or cow is always going to win on brute strength. That's why we have stocks and headgates and twitches and drugs. I would suggest that their incapacity to be safe probably has more to do with a lack of training in animal handling than it does in sheer size.
- Signed, a member of the Short Tiny Woman's Veterinary Society, who has only found her size limiting in her ability to do large animal rectals.
ETA: My point is, everyone should be given a shot to prove they can do x, y, or z and people shouldn't make assumptions based on looks.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

I'm thinking this was a sassy question aimed at me and not really a serious one.

In all serious, not at all. Google the RCVS DDA document and take a gander if you ever have 5 minutes to spare and want some comical reading. There's stereotypical examples of autistic students being a nuisance in class, hypothetical situations of building crazy contraptions to hoist theatre major wheelchair students 30 ft in the air to change lightbulbs, and more.

 

[LetItSnow]

Classically, veterinarian medicine has been looked at as a generalist field: We're all trained in theory to work with all the species. So it makes sense to set up the program such that, if someone has a disability that outright prevents them from handling all the typical species, they would be restricted from entering the program. That's just common sense - it's not a soulless attempt to beat down people with disabilities.

With regard to women, I think that was just a poor choice of examples. Anybody who thinks that just because you weigh 200 lbs you can handle a large horse better than someone weighing 120 ..... well, you don't know much about horses. Horses are all about HOW you approach them and handle them, not the strength you bring to the picture - they'll beat the crap out of a 200 lber just as handily as the 120 lber if it comes down to a contest of strength. Ditto with some pissed-off parlor queen: I know, because I've been tossed against the wall by more than one of them as a teen working the farm (and our cows weren't NEARLY as big as they are nowadays). The two people who came closest to getting their asses kicked in by a horse in my class? Two big, strong guys. My niece weighs maybe 115 - she handles a horse as well as anyone I've ever seen. BUT, you still need to be able to reach the horse; you still need functioning arms/legs. So yeah, I think RVC's requirements make sense given the classical view of the field. As much as I also think it sucks for @wheelin2vetmed and I feel bad about that.

So that's where that limitation comes from, and it's reasonable if you stick to that view of veterinary medicine.

The problem is that it's dumb (in my opinion ....) to cling to the idea of a veterinarian as a generalist. We ought to be training people toward their goal. Primarily because it would allow our training to be more in-depth along the lines of our goal, which would be a good thing given the diagnostic and therapeutic capabilities we have today compared to 30 years ago. We've got so much more to learn, but we're still cramming it into the same 4-year window, and that's dumb. It makes sense to either lengthen the training (require internship) or reduce the learning (cut out what a particular individual doesn't need). I think the first option isn't great for the field right now because of the financial impact, so that pushes my thinking toward the latter. As a bonus - but not the primary goal - it would open the field up to people whose disabilities were not insurmountable in their planned/goal area of practice.

The idea that an equine vet could shift into SA medicine after 20 years without recurrent training is dumb. The idea that I could walk out of here now - after only graduating in May - and practice equine medicine is just as dumb. It's time to lose this antiquated, fanciful notion that vets are all generalists. Nothing wrong with practicing mixed-animal medicine, but even those people typically stick to a relatively small number of species that is a much smaller subset of what we're required to learn.

In case it's not obvious, I'm a big fan of limited licensure.

- Signed, a member of the Short Tiny Woman's Veterinary Society,

If that's not a thing it should be a thing.

 

[cowgirla]

who has only found her size limiting in her ability to do large animal rectals.

And that is why they created buckets, mounting blocks, and tailgates.

 

[battie]

It's the "should"/"shouldn't" that's grating my nerves. Who are you to decide who should and shouldn't become a vet based on their physical characteristics? Why can't a frail person who isn't good at restraining horses be a pathologist or an ophthalmologist? Why can't they go into any of the dozens of fields that don't require physical strength and dexterity?

I don't get to decide; the schools do. I was simply stating my opinion that not everyone can do everything, which is true. And as LIS stated, the way we are trained currently entails us being trained as a generalist. At this point in vet med, you have to be able to do a reasonable amount of most everything, meaning that there's a chunk of the population (gender not mattering in the least) that could not be veterinarians simply because of their physical capabilities (NOT characteristics).

It does not matter how big, burly or strong you are, if you're trying to do something to a horse or cow that doesn't want to be involved (especially if you're doing something painful and/or invasive), the horse or cow is always going to win on brute strength. That's why we have stocks and headgates and twitches and drugs. I would suggest that their incapacity to be safe probably has more to do with a lack of training in animal handling than it does in sheer size.
- Signed, a member of the Short Tiny Woman's Veterinary Society, who has only found her size limiting in her ability to do large animal rectals.
ETA: My point is, everyone should be given a shot to prove they can do x, y, or z and people shouldn't make assumptions based on looks.

I would agree with the bolded 100%. I do not necessarily agree with the underlined. In my job, I have to make assumptions everyday based on how my residents look. And, honestly, I don't care if people do the same for me because I do it to them. Most of the time, my first impression does change some, but not entirely. I tend to trust my gut reaction on people at this point.

In all serious, not at all. Google the RCVS DDA document and take a gander if you ever have 5 minutes to spare and want some comical reading. There's stereotypical examples of autistic students being a nuisance in class, hypothetical situations of building crazy contraptions to hoist theatre major wheelchair students 30 ft in the air to change lightbulbs, and more.

I will have to take a look when I sit my front desk tomorrow. I will definitely need a laugh tomorrow since I'll get to tell two kids with alcohol write-ups that they can't appeal and another that he can't keep his chosen roommate. Those won't be pleasant conversations. lol.

Classically, veterinarian medicine has been looked at as a generalist field: We're all trained in theory to work with all the species. So it makes sense to set up the program such that, if someone has a disability that outright prevents them from handling all the typical species, they would be restricted from entering the program. That's just common sense - it's not a soulless attempt to beat down people with disabilities.

In case it's not obvious, I'm a big fan of limited licensure.

The first paragraph is where I'm coming from on this, and I completely agree with limited licensure. I feel like it would save a ton of time for a lot of people.

 

[Coquette22]

If that's not a thing it should be a thing.

Dibs on President.

 

[deleted498041]

And that is why they created buckets, mounting blocks, and tailgates.

I've found that my arms aren't always long enough to reach everything The first cow I palpated I had a really hard time grabbing her cervix. I could feel it at the tips of my fingers, but I just needed another half an inch!

 

[WelshCob]

I am so incredibly frustrated with vet school right now and if I could I would walk away. I want to type out the worlds longest rant but somehow my anger will come back and find me and I know I'll pay for it later because thats how things always seem to work out.

 

[dyachei]

I think the bigger issue for @wheelin2vetmed is that the wheelchair would probably spook most horses. because horses.

 

[LetItSnow]

I think the bigger issue for @wheelin2vetmed is that the wheelchair would probably spook most horses. because horses.

Truth. They would find SOME way to impale themselves upon the wheelchair. It's like they try.....

 

[dyachei]

Truth. They would find SOME way to impale themselves upon the wheelchair. It's like they try.....

OH GAWD!! It's a stationary object!!! It's gonna get me!!! - How a horse thinks

 

[TotesMahGoats]

See, I didn't find this offensive at all. I am five foot nothing, 115/120 chick and I feel he has a point. There are certainly "short, tiny, frail" women who should not be veterinarians because of their physical capabilities. There are some women out there who could not physically do the job, and I think that was W2VM's point. I would never try to be a firefighter simply because I'm physically incapable of doing it. That can be extrapolated to being a veterinarian to a certain extent. I don't think he was point another group down at all.

The problem isn't the fact that there are people who are underqualified for jobs. That happens all the time, in many fields. The problem is that people suggest only women can be weak or frail. I know lots of women who are incapable of walking in mud, let alone holding a horse--and I also know a lot of men who'd fit that bill, too.

Obviously I don't think that was his intention, but it's really no different if I said, "I should get the spot over wheelin2vetmed, because my legs work and I've seen a lot of people in wheelchairs that are clearly incapable. What? I'm just pointing out what I see."

Stereotypes are sh*tty for a reason.