Sinai vs. NYU

[mdquestion]

I'm sure there have been threads on this in the past. Accepted at both, considering both still. Maybe slightly leaning Sinai. Opinions? Financial aid will likely be equal= $0. So loans, loans, loans!

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[Quicky]

Waitlisted at both but I would go with Sinai if I had your choice. I thought that each school had a significantly different group of students so if either environment really meshed with your personality that may influence your choice.

 

[mdquestion]

Wow this is much more definitive than I was expecting. Flipping through past threads like this, it seemed like people though NYU was way more prestigious than Sinai for some reason.

 

[Quicky]

Wow this is much more definitive than I was expecting. Flipping through past threads like this, it seemed like people though NYU was way more prestigious than Sinai for some reason.

For whatever reason I've found that in general most SDN users give NYU a bad rap compared to Sinai. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these people base their opinion on USnews ranking. I didn't have the best impression of NYU prior to interviewing based on what I read on SDN, but I was pleasantly surprised and if I had the choice it would be a tough one.

 

[Cytotoxic]

Waitlisted at both but I would go with Sinai if I had your choice. I thought that each school had a significantly different group of students so if either environment really meshed with your personality that may influence your choice.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[jbz24]

Do you have any particular interests?

Both are excellent schools but are very different. I'm a Sinai student and I feel the school has been great to me. I'd be more than happy to give you specifics if you help me narrow down what exactly you're comparing between the two schools.

 

[ElegantWeapon]

My personal opinion is STRONGLY NYU. BTW, I have no real stake in this, I was accepted to both, and will probably be attending Columbia.

Anyway, I walked away from Sinai knowing that there was no way I would want to go there. NYU has a far better atmosphere in my opinion, with the amazing possibilities available at their public hospital. A neurosurgeon I shadowed was telling me about how he was starting to play a role in neurosurgery there during his 2nd year-awesome opportunities. Anyway, I think a lot of their residency programs are better, their hospitals are better, and I just got the sense that there were lots of doctors that did all there training there-very "NYU family" oriented, which is cool. Also, I thought their facilities were slightly better, and always moving towards improvements. In addition, the move to 1.5 yr curriculum and new dorm situation are 2 more pluses in their direction.

Good luck with your decision-if it was me I'd do NYU but people are a little too concerned with USNEWS...Its a good starting point for picking out schools maybe but its not the be all end of all things, considering you are picking schools 10 spots from each other, and Sinai was similarly ranked only like 2 years ago or something

 

[jbz24]

Just an interesting comment about USNWR rankings. If you go back a little further, Sinai and NYU were always top 25/30 schools. Both took a drop in the early/mid 2000s to below 30. Sinai seems to have recovered but NYU has not (yet).

 

[mdquestion]

I went to a small liberal arts school with a well developed Honor Code and almost all take-home exams. So, the Sinai curriculum/environment is a bit closer to what I'm used to. I'm also really still into research (considered MD/PhD) and didn't really get a sense of which school offered a better environment to conduct biomedical research (probably both over the summer and during school...I love it). I REALLY like the idea of a 1.5 year pre-clinical curriculum, but worried that next year's class will go through a lot of problems because of the reality of being "guinea pigs" for the new program. I'm interested in a lot of different specialties right now- some hard, some easier to get into- IM-Hem/Onc, IM-GI, Pediatric-Hem/Onc, Dermatology, OB/Gyn.

Elegant Weapon- It's odd you found the facilities better. I kind of was dissapointed with the NYU facilities. All the medical school space seemed run-down. There was a great new bio research building and lecture hall area, but med students didn't use it too often. The anatomy labs were kind of dank, the lecture hall seemed really outdated. All the student space seemed to be in the basement. I've heard Bellevue has awesome patient cases, but in terms of being a teaching hospital, the physicians there weren't great. The Sinai dorms also seemed nicer than NYU's, although the prospect of sharing space with 3 other people scares me a bit (that's a fair amount to risk getting placed with a "crazy" person).

Sinai's hospital is ranked on par with NYU medical center, so I really didn't get the sense that Sinai had any inferiority in clinical training.

 

[ElegantWeapon]

I went to a small liberal arts school with a well developed Honor Code and almost all take-home exams. So, the Sinai curriculum/environment is a bit closer to what I'm used to. I'm also really still into research (considered MD/PhD) and didn't really get a sense of which school offered a better environment to conduct biomedical research (probably both over the summer and during school...I love it). I'm interested in a lot of different specialties right now- some hard, some easier to get into- IM-Hem/Onc, IM-GI, Pediatric-Hem/Onc, Dermatology, OB/Gyn.

Elegant Weapon- It's odd you found the facilities better. I kind of was dissapointed with the NYU facilities. All the medical school space seemed run-down. There was a great new bio research building and lecture hall area, but med students didn't use it too often. The anatomy labs were kind of dank, the lecture hall seemed really outdated. All the student space seemed to be in the basement. I've heard Bellevue has awesome patient cases, but in terms of being a teaching hospital, the physicians there weren't great. The Sinai dorms also seemed nicer than NYU's, although the prospect of sharing space with 3 other people scares me a bit (that's a fair amount to risk getting placed with a "crazy" person).

Sinai's hospital is ranked on par with NYU medical center, so I really didn't get the sense that Sinai had any inferiority in clinical training.

Regarding facilities-maybe it was just interview day...I didn't actually see the anatomy labs (they didn't take us on the tour, it was locked or something), and I happened to see some of the new research buildings (neuroscience I think) because my friend who goes to NYU brought me to where he does research. Could have been chance location bias as to what I saw.

I don't know what it was about Sinai, but something about it just wasn't for me. One thing for example was their testing methods-I'm all for p/f and student cooperative learning, but I thought the notion of taking tests where and when you want was somewhat silly. To each his own-I'm sure both will get you where you want to go so you can't really go wrong. Thats what second looks are for

 

[mdeast]

I'm in a similar situation, although hopefully some waitlists come through. I'm almost definitely choosing Sinai though. I found most of the students I met there (as well those I interviewed with) to be slightly more impressive than the NYU students. And the P/F, test at home thing is really attractive to me.

I kind of agree on facilities. NYU had a mix of both good and bad, but I didn't really find anything impressive. I think it was made worse by the fact that it was raining on my interview day though. So, it's not a fair comparison. Bellevue was nice though. Although, I just toured USC-LA County and that public hospital is just awesome!

Sinai had just renovated a lot of student areas, and the hospital pavillions were pretty impressive. I know they just completed a new Center for Advanced Medicine, which apparently is really, really nice and you'll do some outpatient rotations/shadowing there. See below.

http://www.pebmarchitects.com/projectDetails.aspx?p=2400335&c=2400024

 

[jbz24]

Purely by stereotype, Sinai is considered more of a research center while NYU is considered more of a clinical school. Students at NYU regularly tout Bellevue and the clinical experience while students at Sinai boast going into academia and research. I'm positive you will find equal opportunities at each school, so it is not a knock on NYU's research opportunities or Sinai's clinical training.

If you're interested in IM and its specialties, Sinai is significantly better than NYU in terms of education, research, and furthering your career in medicine. I've actually just matched into IM and can say that with certainty. I can't comment about peds, obgyn, or derm though but you will match well from either. I posted Sinai's match list this year in the Sinai thread if you want to get a sense where Sinai students went this year.

Facilities are both good and bad at both places. However, I wouldn't place much emphasis on this. Some of the best places to train have the worst facilities. Take a look at Columbia for example, that place is a dump and is in one of the worst locations in Manhattan, but they have some of the brightest faculty, research, and education over there.

The choice between the two shouldn't be that difficult just because the cultures of the schools are so different. Some people prefer Sinai and some prefer NYU.

 

[Cytotoxic]

Bump

 

[Broseph]

NYU because of Bellevue and because I like that part of the City more. You cant go wrong either way, though.

 

[conrad123]

I vote Sinai.

1.5 year curriculum...you have the rest of your life to be clinical but only the first two years of school to focus on the basics. I prefer the full, traditional 2 year curriculum.

 

[mdquestion]

Hey jbz-

What's the first two years at Sinai really like? Is it just lectures? Or is there a lot of small group? How much patient interaction do you get?

What's the career guidance like? Choosing a specialty?

How is easy is it to do research? Is it just over the summer, or do people keep up with it during the year?

Social life? Living in Aron Hall? Do people go out a lot on weekends (and/or the week)? Any cool local bars to grab a drink? Do you like the neighborhood?

 

[jbz24]

Hey jbz-

What's the first two years at Sinai really like? Is it just lectures? Or is there a lot of small group? How much patient interaction do you get?

What's the career guidance like? Choosing a specialty?

How is easy is it to do research? Is it just over the summer, or do people keep up with it during the year?

Social life? Living in Aron Hall? Do people go out a lot on weekends (and/or the week)? Any cool local bars to grab a drink? Do you like the neighborhood?

First two years are probably about half lectures and half small group sessions (maybe slightly more lectures). Lectures are all optional attendance, videotaped, and posted online. Small group sessions are mandatory and generally involve discussing clinical case vignettes. Also, labs are generally in the afternoon and also required attendance. This was how it was when I did it, it may be slightly different now. Most of your patient encounters the first two years will be through the class called Art and Science of Medicine. The first few weeks you will probably learn about topics like professionalism and ethics. After that, you will begin to learn physical exams and then you will have weekly patient encounters in the hospital.

Career guidance was hit or miss when I was a first year. I was proactive and found a mentor who helped guide me. We were all supposed to receive mentors but I don't think this actually happened. There has been a shift of some administrative people since I was a first year, and I believe things are better. There's always been guidance, but you had to seek it out. I believe now they seek you out as well. That's a question better asked to a first or second year, sorry.

Research is incredibly easy to do. Since Sinai is a top 15-20 institution for NIH funding and since there are no undergrads competing to do research, all of the opportunities go to you. Most students do some form of research and a large portion do (funded) research between the first and second summers. A lot of students carry these projects on throughout the year. I had various projects that I was a part of all years at Sinai, including third year, although obviously not full time as it was during the summer. Sinai does push its students to do research, but you are in no way obligated to do so if you hate research. I would encourage it, though, because it really helps for your residency application.

Social life is very active and there is plenty of time to take advantage of NYC during the first two years. There are lots of bars on 2nd and 3rd ave in the lower 90s. The closest bar is just across the street from Aron Hall (called Hanrattys) so if you don't want to travel far you can grab a drink there. Many students travel to the downtown/LES/village/westside for dinner or drinks, and since Sinai is close to the 6 and crosstown bus, it's easy to get anywhere in the city. There are many parties at bars and clubs, especially during the first year, so if that's your thing you will enjoy it. Sinai's location is good, but not great. The restaurants and bars in the immediate vicinity (2-3 block radius) is a bit lacking and sometimes you have to walk a little further. NYU is in a better area in terms of this.

 

[mdquestion]

First two years are probably about half lectures and half small group sessions (maybe slightly more lectures). Lectures are all optional attendance, videotaped, and posted online. Small group sessions are mandatory and generally involve discussing clinical case vignettes. Also, labs are generally in the afternoon and also required attendance. This was how it was when I did it, it may be slightly different now. Most of your patient encounters the first two years will be through the class called Art and Science of Medicine. The first few weeks you will probably learn about topics like professionalism and ethics. After that, you will begin to learn physical exams and then you will have weekly patient encounters in the hospital.

Career guidance was hit or miss when I was a first year. I was proactive and found a mentor who helped guide me. We were all supposed to receive mentors but I don't think this actually happened. There has been a shift of some administrative people since I was a first year, and I believe things are better. There's always been guidance, but you had to seek it out. I believe now they seek you out as well. That's a question better asked to a first or second year, sorry.

Research is incredibly easy to do. Since Sinai is a top 15-20 institution for NIH funding and since there are no undergrads competing to do research, all of the opportunities go to you. Most students do some form of research and a large portion do (funded) research between the first and second summers. A lot of students carry these projects on throughout the year. I had various projects that I was a part of all years at Sinai, including third year, although obviously not full time as it was during the summer. Sinai does push its students to do research, but you are in no way obligated to do so if you hate research. I would encourage it, though, because it really helps for your residency application.

Social life is very active and there is plenty of time to take advantage of NYC during the first two years. There are lots of bars on 2nd and 3rd ave in the lower 90s. The closest bar is just across the street from Aron Hall (called Hanrattys) so if you don't want to travel far you can grab a drink there. Many students travel to the downtown/LES/village/westside for dinner or drinks, and since Sinai is close to the 6 and crosstown bus, it's easy to get anywhere in the city. There are many parties at bars and clubs, especially during the first year, so if that's your thing you will enjoy it. Sinai's location is good, but not great. The restaurants and bars in the immediate vicinity (2-3 block radius) is a bit lacking and sometimes you have to walk a little further. NYU is in a better area in terms of this.

I'll keep the questions coming....

Do Sinai students match into competitive/first choice specialties. Have you heard of students being pressured to chose an easier specialty because of grades/etc.? I'm interested in some more basic Peds/IM, but I also have a certain thing for derm (no I am not a money-grubbing douchebag, I actually spent a year doing stem cell work related to skin wound healing which I thought was aweeeesome) and possibly interventional radiology.

Do people like living in aron hall? Does anyone move into off-campus housing? How expensive is it? Do you find the social community...insular? Or do people meet other students and locals off campus/do people have lives outside of medical school?. I'm slightly worried about living for 4 years and studying most of the time with the same ~140 students...and forgetting there's a world outside my med school bubble.

What time are classes typically over (assuming there isn't an afternoon lab)?

Is there an active Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual....etc community at Sinai? (yes, I assume you probably don't know a good answer to this).

 

[jbz24]

I have not heard of anyone being pressured into applying to less competitive residencies, but that's not to say it doesn't happen. I really have no idea, but no one I've spoken to had this problem.

Most people this year matched into their first choice (I have no numbers to back this up). I'm sure for the more competitive specialties (ortho/plastics/rads) that it was not everyone's first choice, but everyone did match. I posted the match list of this year in the Sinai thread, but I believe most of the matches were into very competitive places, both in the northeast and the west coast. In terms of your interests, we did extremely well this year for IM, so you will have no problem with that. We only had one apply to derm this year, although that person is going to UCSF. Rads we also did very well but you can take a look at the match list and decide for yourself.

A lot of people like living in Aron Hall. It's actually a very nice building to live in and ridiculously cheap. It may be an adjustment if you are used to living alone. There are some people who live off campus and commute, but not that many given the better option of Aron Hall. The ones that do live off campus either live downtown, the west side, or in Queens/Brooklyn. Not many people live off campus but remain in the upper east side. If you are married/domestic partnership, you can live in the couples housing which is also very nice but more expensive. In terms of your question about being in your own bubble during med school - I don't think you could be even if you wanted to. It's NYC after all. You'll have plenty of opportunities to meet with students at other schools (even though there seems to be rivalry between Sinai, NYU, Cornell, and Columbia, a lot of us hang out with each other, do events with each other, and sometimes there are parties thrown for all schools). Of course, in spite of saying all of that, you WILL spend most of your time with the 140 other med students in your class, and that's true with almost every other med school.

In terms of when classes end, I believe it's changed since when I was a first and second year. I'll tell you how it was for me, but if anyone has any updated information, I'd be curious to know too. For the most part, first year classes on Monday and Friday were 9 to 12 lectures and you had afternoons off. Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays were again lectures in the morning (maybe small groups as well), and afternoons were either lab or Art and Science of Medicine. Those days could last as late as 5 pm (although not usually). Second year was less labs and more lectures and small group sessions. Since all of the lectures are optional, you can kind of make your own schedule of what you want to attend, or if you want to just read on your own or watch the videos of the lectures in the evening, you can do that too. I found it to be pretty flexible - some of my classmates never attended a single lecture while others attended all of them, but in the end, we all did well.

There is an active LGTB community, many of my classmates are openly gay/bi. There is/was a LGBT group at Sinai because I've received many emails from them, but I don't know much more.

 

[pugli32]

Waitlisted at both but I would go with Sinai if I had your choice. I thought that each school had a significantly different group of students so if either environment really meshed with your personality that may influence your choice.

What do you mean by significantly different group? Anyone care to comment on what differences they saw in the culture of NYU students vs Sinai students?

 

[mdeast]

What do you mean by significantly different group? Anyone care to comment on what differences they saw in the culture of NYU students vs Sinai students?

I visited both schools, but only for a single interview day (like most of us). On initial impressions, it seemed like NYU had a greater tendency to take students who had grown in the area, or gone to college in the area. Most of the students I met were somehow connected to the NYC metro area before attending medical school there. They seemed very fun and sociable, and I got a sense they were a bit more on the clinical interest side of things than academic medicine. The Sinai students seemed a little bit more of the liberal-artsy type of students, and seemed more interested in research than people I met at NYU. I also met less students from the NYC-area, but this could have been the small sample of people I met.

 

[arangatan]

bump

 

[sleaterkitty]

I am in the same situation - extremely lucky to be accepted to both. But the financial aid packages are substantially different - I received a 30k scholarship to NYU v. all loans at Sinai. Some Context: I think Sinai is a better fit for me personally, but I believe I will make it work wherever I attend. I have paid off all my undergrad loans, so I'm going in with $0 debt as of today.But, I am interested in working with underserved communities and don't see myself going into radiology, ect. What do you think? How much should the scholarship affect my decision?

 

[mdeast]

I am in the same situation - extremely lucky to be accepted to both. But the financial aid packages are substantially different - I received a 30k scholarship to NYU v. all loans at Sinai. Some Context: I think Sinai is a better fit for me personally, but I believe I will make it work wherever I attend. I have paid off all my undergrad loans, so I'm going in with $0 debt as of today.But, I am interested in working with underserved communities and don't see myself going into radiology, ect. What do you think? How much should the scholarship affect my decision?

30k/year?? or 30k total? 120k is huge. I'd probably pick NYU. I think debt is scary enough and that is a large enough difference to seriously affect your life. With interest....120k over 20 years can easily turn into $250k or more in extra debt.

Now, if it's 30k total...especially given that Mount Sinai is at base cheaper (lower tuition, lower living expenses) than NYU. I'd chose Sinai without a doubt.

I was given this decision with all loans at each school and, yes, chose Sinai.

 

[sleaterkitty]

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post - it's $30,000 total for M1 (the remaining COA covered by loans), and would be available each year thereafter as long as my parents don't win the lottery.

Thanks so much for your comment mdeast!

 

[justinbaily]

The money should have a profound impact on your decision. Both schools are comparable in quality, but have different personalities and settings. I prefer Sinai, but for 120,000 I would choose NYU in a heartbeat.

 

[mdeast]

The money should have a profound impact on your decision. Both schools are comparable in quality, but have different personalities and settings. I prefer Sinai, but for 120,000 I would choose NYU in a heartbeat.

I sort of agree. I liked Sinai way more than NYU, but not enough to pass up a scholarship that big. Both are good schools in similar social environments (you live in NYC, so even if you don't like NYU kids, you can have a life outside of it). The NYU match list is great, and you can go anywhere from there. They also have the cool new curriculum and better housing than they've had in the past, so they're working to get better.

Finances aside, I'd chose Sinai. But 120k (at least to me) is too much to pass up. I'd make sure that you will likely continue to get the scholarship after M1 before pulling the trigger though.

This almost makes me sad for not filling out my financial aid forms at NYU. But alas, I've already withdrawn.