Time To Get a WWatch - Game Thread

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I forgot about the bolded and I'm surprised you brought this up even before True did.

Who's the new player being referenced here?
I appreciate any allowances that people want to give me, but don't feel comfortable asking for them. I'm pretty confident in my ability to defend myself.
 
Thunderdome between True and Sporty .
Watch the previous roles of authority fight dirty in the mud for their life would be amusing ngl
 
i'm pretty sure i've chimed in on discussions with Cray about this that you've been part of. in regards to being welcoming in general and her prior very vocal noob hunting. i'm very surprised you'd say this.
I don't mean baseless noob targeting. I just mean I though you did what you found necessary to move towards a win as soon as possible.
 
i haven't seen anything outside her wolf range yet. true just modded, so i don't feel like voting there today, but otherwise would be in contention for me. and i'm not sure i want to vote a player new to us just yet because they've been fun to have around and i want them to continue playing with us. sucks to be the d1 vote on a new site, yeah?

this is probably not a very good way to win the game so i'm not recommending this approach for the rest of the class.
So you don’t want to vote the new kids or one of the mobs but who’s your top scum read
 
What was village-y about it?
I'm in the middle of plowing through work emails so I will attempt to make this coherent

I liked Clem's entrance and the JJJ sus seemed genuine. I also liked JJJ's response to it - I do believe that JJJ is telling the truth when he says that his tone is a lot different here than in previous games on other sites for his mentioned reasons, and I do believe Clem picked up on it fast and pursued it with genuine concern rather than malice.

The tone came off as a perfectly innocent version of
Spider-Man Reaction GIF


Just feels like well-intending village vibes that surprised each other with new play styles
 
PUPPERS:
AM
PSV

Gailer's flirting with:
Santygrass
Aprilthearab
samac

Skids:
jjj
empire
Sporty
Clem

Degens from upcountry:
true
nate
Why’s JJJ so low?


Also I just checked post counts and AM is outposting me.
Wolf!samac confirmed
 
Genuinely not sure when I became an easy/uncontested wolf read.

Anyone want to help me understand that?
 
Genuinely not sure when I became an easy/uncontested wolf read.

Anyone want to help me understand that?
I can only speak for myself, but here's the gist:

It's not really a "wolf" read, but it's a frustrating null read. That doesn't mean you have frustrated me, but I am frustrated in general that I can't seem to budge that read. Your posts are effortful, involved, and appreciated. I just can't really find much in them to extract and say "this is town content". Perhaps I would benefit from knowing you better, I couldn't say. I just see a lot of material that strikes me as non-indicative of alignment for [the general nameless player], and that kind of read reigns in a first meeting like this one.

If there's something you've said or done that you think it's particularly town indicative, I would absolutely listen to you if you tell me about it.
 
Genuinely not sure when I became an easy/uncontested wolf read.

Anyone want to help me understand that?
I think to summarize would be lack of toothfulness in your post, or like 'hunting' energy.
At the start you felt detached to the thread, and now even tho you did some more it feels like you are vibrating in other direction while not selling much your PoV ?

Like, you have a different view than majority of us, but also going along with the rest so it doesnt feel like... Genuine? I suck at explaining myself wowee
 
Okay, so my M.O. with forum games thus far is that when I'm catching up it feels weird to ask questions that may have been asked/answered already, which makes me want to get completely current before really giving concrete thoughts, which if post volume is high or I'm busy means that I'm never quite current and don't end up saying much, and this is not helpful for the gamestate in general or helping people get a read on me.

SO, I'm "current" as of roughly page 12 (basically through my AM vote and the immediate response) and I'll give some thoughts up to that point. And I see that there aren't that many new pages since then, so I can catch up the rest of the way.

JJJ is my top town read, and I don't really understand Clem's scum read there. Tinfoil from the people here who are unfamiliar with Jay I would understand since he's new to them and stepping into a town leader role. I've only had one game with him but to me his enthusiasm seems genuine rather than just going through the motions of projecting "town leader Jay". What's looked best on a full read has been that any time there was a thread that I noted as worth pulling, Jay was there pulling it shortly after. An example of this is p#144 where he's tagging Empire to make sure a question from AM gets answered. The only off part in his play so far is that he seemed kind of thrown off-kilter by Clem's scum read.

The rest are leans, roughly-ish ordered:

Lean Town
April
PSV
Santy

Neutral
Samac
Genny
Sporty
Clem
AM

Lean Wolf
Empire
True

I can expand on those as necessary, I think one notable bit is AM/Empire: I voted AM, the response was kinda OMGUSy but that's whatever, not necessarily AI depending on the player. My vote was because it seemed to me she could have been reacting to Jay's vote on me in a way that would solidify it, but she was actually reacting to an Empire post that fits the bill even better as that sort of ping (it was the post where Empire was saying he likes Jay's vote on me but doesn't think it's the right POE). So that shifted those two around. I'm not putting AM higher than neutral at this point though since on a full read I didn't see a whole lot of pushes or reactions to things (other than my vote, and at least up to page 12).

The other notable bit is True. In short, I can see why he's POE. And (caveat that the game is never as easy as it seems) those two seem compatible. An early interaction for example was True on page 2 getting paranoid about the early JJJ town core, and then Empire townreading True for it shortly after. (Samac had the opposite take and scumread True for it, so that's an interesting unpairing if any of those flip wolf). I also noticed that True seemed in the early game to be interested in getting the "noobs" into the game mechanically (explaining rules and such) but not necessarily engaging them in solving. There was also an interesting interaction on page 3 with AM where he backed off after some fairly light pushback with a townread: "Going to stake my (slowly) developing reading card on AM on her being village".
Another note was p#404 where he was reluctant to slap together a reads list because he's "gotten himself into trouble" doing that before, which seems a little too concerned with how the reads will be perceived that with what those reads are.

Anyway I don't really wallpost but this has turned into one so I'll leave it there for now and continue catching up. I plan on moving my vote to True or Empire once I'm current (not totally sure what the wagons look like currently).
 
Okay, so my M.O. with forum games thus far is that when I'm catching up it feels weird to ask questions that may have been asked/answered already, which makes me want to get completely current before really giving concrete thoughts, which if post volume is high or I'm busy means that I'm never quite current and don't end up saying much, and this is not helpful for the gamestate in general or helping people get a read on me.

SO, I'm "current" as of roughly page 12 (basically through my AM vote and the immediate response) and I'll give some thoughts up to that point. And I see that there aren't that many new pages since then, so I can catch up the rest of the way.

JJJ is my top town read, and I don't really understand Clem's scum read there. Tinfoil from the people here who are unfamiliar with Jay I would understand since he's new to them and stepping into a town leader role. I've only had one game with him but to me his enthusiasm seems genuine rather than just going through the motions of projecting "town leader Jay". What's looked best on a full read has been that any time there was a thread that I noted as worth pulling, Jay was there pulling it shortly after. An example of this is p#144 where he's tagging Empire to make sure a question from AM gets answered. The only off part in his play so far is that he seemed kind of thrown off-kilter by Clem's scum read.

The rest are leans, roughly-ish ordered:

Lean Town
April
PSV
Santy

Neutral
Samac
Genny
Sporty
Clem
AM

Lean Wolf
Empire
True

I can expand on those as necessary, I think one notable bit is AM/Empire: I voted AM, the response was kinda OMGUSy but that's whatever, not necessarily AI depending on the player. My vote was because it seemed to me she could have been reacting to Jay's vote on me in a way that would solidify it, but she was actually reacting to an Empire post that fits the bill even better as that sort of ping (it was the post where Empire was saying he likes Jay's vote on me but doesn't think it's the right POE). So that shifted those two around. I'm not putting AM higher than neutral at this point though since on a full read I didn't see a whole lot of pushes or reactions to things (other than my vote, and at least up to page 12).

The other notable bit is True. In short, I can see why he's POE. And (caveat that the game is never as easy as it seems) those two seem compatible. An early interaction for example was True on page 2 getting paranoid about the early JJJ town core, and then Empire townreading True for it shortly after. (Samac had the opposite take and scumread True for it, so that's an interesting unpairing if any of those flip wolf). I also noticed that True seemed in the early game to be interested in getting the "noobs" into the game mechanically (explaining rules and such) but not necessarily engaging them in solving. There was also an interesting interaction on page 3 with AM where he backed off after some fairly light pushback with a townread: "Going to stake my (slowly) developing reading card on AM on her being village".
Another note was p#404 where he was reluctant to slap together a reads list because he's "gotten himself into trouble" doing that before, which seems a little too concerned with how the reads will be perceived that with what those reads are.

Anyway I don't really wallpost but this has turned into one so I'll leave it there for now and continue catching up. I plan on moving my vote to True or Empire once I'm current (not totally sure what the wagons look like currently).
What has you leaning Santy village?
 
What has you leaning Santy village?
No wolf would use the pregnant emoji to describe the thread state.

I vibe with his pushes thus far, and he's seemed pretty comfortable, seemed interested in real-timing with me rather than piling on. Vague stuff. I don't think I have any specific posts in my notes that look good. And I think if either True or Empire are wolves then it would look like they were trying to interrupt JJJ/Santy finding each other early, but I don't want to pre-flip. There's plenty of tinfoil on that read because my track record of reading Santy has not been good thus far.
 
And I see April got the same sense of that Empire post that I did:
Kind of reads to me like "I don't like this POE because I'm in it with my wolf buddy/buddies but it's cool that you're voting a villager for now so carry on"

April can stay at the top of my town leans.
 
I can only speak for myself, but here's the gist:

It's not really a "wolf" read, but it's a frustrating null read. That doesn't mean you have frustrated me, but I am frustrated in general that I can't seem to budge that read. Your posts are effortful, involved, and appreciated. I just can't really find much in them to extract and say "this is town content". Perhaps I would benefit from knowing you better, I couldn't say. I just see a lot of material that strikes me as non-indicative of alignment for [the general nameless player], and that kind of read reigns in a first meeting like this one.

If there's something you've said or done that you think it's particularly town indicative, I would absolutely listen to you if you tell me about it.
Hm. Well, that's disappointing to hear, because it indicates a skill issue on my part. A bit frustrating to hear that my posts are "effortful, involved, and appreciated" but somehow neutral/empty. I would ask if you're positive that your perspective isn't being colored by a few reads from others? Just keep that in mind; I am village, and it's mostly my fault that you feel the way you do, but we can always improve our ability to read others.

I can't ISO at the moment (doing this on my phone while keeping half an eye on a reactor) but I really can ISO myself tonight if it seems that it'll be necessary.

I think to summarize would be lack of toothfulness in your post, or like 'hunting' energy.
At the start you felt detached to the thread, and now even tho you did some more it feels like you are vibrating in other direction while not selling much your PoV ?

Like, you have a different view than majority of us, but also going along with the rest so it doesnt feel like... Genuine? I suck at explaining myself wowee
I can understand that. I don't really like to go after folks aggressively on D1 when I don't know anyone's alignment. I understand that it can be helpful to do so, it's just never been my playstyle. D2 and onward are usually much easier for me. And it's reasonable you feel that I was detached from the thread; I was. Trying to make up for that now.
 
The following shouldn't be construed as a "case" against Clem. Rather, it's a long way of asking "wtf?"

4:11 PM EDT

4:12 PM EDT

4:13 PM EDT

These are some of Clem's first posts (the first arriving at 4:11). Within a minute, he voted for me. A minute later, he asked for a way to ISO. Clearly, Clem, you did not ISO me (you didn't know how). That'd have to imply then that your read came by reading the game thread in proper sequence.

The only other read you have provided in this game (that I can easily locate) was this one:

5:50 PM EDT

This was, I believe, a reference to this post by Truenamer:
4:16 PM EDT

This post came immediately after you arrived in the game. So I have two readily apparent reads: Jay is mafia, and Truenamer is town. The latter read is an extremely "vibe" thing that comes from a post that came into existence as you were joining the thread (indeed, it was about you).

This is all to say that I have no actual evidence in front of me that you have read anything prior to your arrival -- none of the game, none of my posts, none of anything. And if that's the case, it's essentially impossible for your read to be real. So what are you doing.
Just read this. I would love to hear a response from @Clem J.
 
I can only speak for myself, but here's the gist:

It's not really a "wolf" read, but it's a frustrating null read. That doesn't mean you have frustrated me, but I am frustrated in general that I can't seem to budge that read. Your posts are effortful, involved, and appreciated. I just can't really find much in them to extract and say "this is town content". Perhaps I would benefit from knowing you better, I couldn't say. I just see a lot of material that strikes me as non-indicative of alignment for [the general nameless player], and that kind of read reigns in a first meeting like this one.

If there's something you've said or done that you think it's particularly town indicative, I would absolutely listen to you if you tell me about it.
I guess to list a few things- I gave a reads list because people wanted one even though I wasn't feeling particularly ready to put one out (much easier to make one as a wolf, you just sheep a popular one and move things around a little to better fit your developing NK list and packmates). I did a full ISO of Nate and gave my thoughts, and feel like I laid out my progression pretty clearly. I've been responsive to people's questions and concerns about me, because getting misyeeted would be a big skill issue on my part and antivillage.

I'll also make the comment that an early reads list being "bad" is... very subjective. Only two or three of us know how accurate any of our lists are. Just because I feel better or worse about some folks than the general consensus doesn't make the information unhelpful.
 
@Truenamer how would you say your mafia play differs from your town play, generally speaking?
Very fun question, going to try and be as straight shooting as possible. Unfortunately, I haven't been a wolf with anyone in this game recently, but my most recent wolf game was pretty successful (until a seer hit me like a truck 😀).

Earlier in my wolf career, one of my big tells was that I would seek permission for votes, directly defer to the opinions of consensus villagers, stuff like that. I cleaned that up in my last wolf game, but I still sought to avoid rocking the boat too much. My basic strategy is to quickly determine the 'hard' and 'soft' misyeets and basically plan on needeing to NK the harder ones, then ingratiate myself with those folks and try to be included as at least a secondary member of the 'town core'. Pretty basic and obvious, but it's what I've got so far. I don't bus and don't vote for fellow packmates, sometimes to an unwise degree.

My villager strategy is... much less developed/coherent. I prefer wolfing and honestly, play WW because of the fun of wolfing. I think part of my listlessness early on is that I had been hoping to roll wolf again, just to see how I could do in a setup with essentially a no-seer guarantee.

My villaging strengths come later in the game, after a round or two of votes. Determining pairs and unpairs, looking at vote movement, and questioning people over post-vote behavior (in open night games) is usually where I catch my wolves.
 
I realize my Poe keeps coming back to true, Nate, empire. Thought empire has improved for me.

I’m not so sure how I feel about genny but I’m having a hard time articulating why.

Otherwise I feel pretty good about my SDN home folks which makes me wonder if I’m using a familiarity bias unless the wolf pack is exactly new friend/friends and true
 
Very fun question, going to try and be as straight shooting as possible. Unfortunately, I haven't been a wolf with anyone in this game recently, but my most recent wolf game was pretty successful (until a seer hit me like a truck 😀).

Earlier in my wolf career, one of my big tells was that I would seek permission for votes, directly defer to the opinions of consensus villagers, stuff like that. I cleaned that up in my last wolf game, but I still sought to avoid rocking the boat too much. My basic strategy is to quickly determine the 'hard' and 'soft' misyeets and basically plan on needeing to NK the harder ones, then ingratiate myself with those folks and try to be included as at least a secondary member of the 'town core'.

My villager strategy is... much less developed/coherent. I prefer wolfing and honestly, play WW because of the fun of wolfing. I think part of my listlessness early on is that I had been hoping to roll wolf again, just to see how I could do in a setup with essentially a no-seer guarantee.

My villaging strengths come later in the game, after a round or two of votes. Determining pairs and unpairs, looking at vote movement, and questioning people over post-vote behavior (in open night games) is usually where I catch my wolves.
This game has a no-seer guarantee?
 
This game has a no-seer guarantee?
Not as such, but after recent conversations I've had with Dubz and Zenge I'll be stunned if they included a full seer in this setup.

There may be stuff like vanilla seers, watchers, motion detectors, but I'll be very confused if there's a real seer.
 
I realize my Poe keeps coming back to true, Nate, empire. Thought empire has improved for me.

I’m not so sure how I feel about genny but I’m having a hard time articulating why.

Otherwise I feel pretty good about my SDN home folks which makes me wonder if I’m using a familiarity bias unless the wolf pack is exactly new friend/friends and true
Bad news about that last line.

I will say, part of why my reads list feels ugly is that my first version was just

Buddies

New people


Which is obviously just my brain being biased.
 
Nate has given us something to talk about here, and we should discuss that. I want to hear everyone’s viewpoint. This is critical while Nate sits as the comfortable tally leader.
 
Not as such, but after recent conversations I've had with Dubz and Zenge I'll be stunned if they included a full seer in this setup.

There may be stuff like vanilla seers, watchers, motion detectors, but I'll be very confused if there's a real seer.
Most of these are investigatives but not seers. Only the first one qualifies. But what makes you think no full seer as opposed to there being roles that can mess with the results?
 
Nate has given us something to talk about here, and we should discuss that. I want to hear everyone’s viewpoint. This is critical while Nate sits as the comfortable tally leader.
What'd you want to talk about?
 
I am given pause about Nate. I think that catchup post is at least good enough that I’m not going to sit silently on this wagon without reconsidering. I do need Nate to complete his catchup quickly, because time is limited this phase. @NateTheLesser

If I don’t vote Nate, the first names in my head right now are Clem and genny as alternates.
 
Most of these are investigatives but not seers. Only the first one qualifies. But what makes you think no full seer as opposed to there being roles that can mess with the results?
I suppose that's an option. Just feels... a bit soon after AssClass to use a seer, from mods who dislike them to begin with.
 
@genny what makes AM a top town read for you?
her approach to questioning is pretty similar regardless of affiliation, but there's a way she responds to the answers she gets as a villager that i haven't seen her replicate as a wolf since i noticed it. hopefully it's enough to prevent me from doing The Big Choke again.
 
I've been won over, if JJJ is powerwolfing he's an Olympic level powerwolfer
 
I am given pause about Nate. I think that catchup post is at least good enough that I’m not going to sit silently on this wagon without reconsidering. I do need Nate to complete his catchup quickly, because time is limited this phase. @NateTheLesser

If I don’t vote Nate, the first names in my head right now are Clem and genny as alternates.
You feel good about true?
 
I can also consider Truenamer for a vote. In that case I am relying heavily on the perspectives of those who know him better. So if any SDN regulars could just provide a completely updated right-now perspective of him, I would be very appreciative.
 
her approach to questioning is pretty similar regardless of affiliation, but there's a way she responds to the answers she gets as a villager that i haven't seen her replicate as a wolf since i noticed it. hopefully it's enough to prevent me from doing The Big Choke again.
This exactly. There's a cadence and stickiness to her 20 Questions routine (and her pushback to others) that wasn't there in the scum game I saw. I need a bigger sample size to feel confident about it, but it feels clear to me what to look for.
 
I suppose that's an option. Just feels... a bit soon after AssClass to use a seer, from mods who dislike them to begin with.
The thing with Assasination was it was mostly vanilla minus a seer and a blocker. I did feel it was village sided. I’d expect in this game there could be a seer but it be more balanced than that.
 
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