What's the deal with Liberty?

[deleted480308]

Misleading figure. Explained here:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3505

it's not misleading at all...for the three years referenced in your link 2007,2009,2011 the percent of households that paid no federal income tax was 40,51,46 respectively. The 2011 number was a prediction at the time of authorship

roughly half

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[deleted480308]

So give us some facts about Liberty that would make a skeptic comfortable spending several hundred thousands of dollars to go there.

they don't have to make skeptics comfortable there...they already have a line of students wanting in

 

[Mad Jack]

it's not misleading at all...for the three years referenced in your link 2007,2009,2011 the percent of households that paid no federal income tax was 40,51,46 respectively. The 2011 number was a prediction at the time of authorship

roughly half

We've gone over this a lot though. The majority of the households paying no income tax are on Social Security, a system they paid into their whole lives and we can't just cut off because they planned their lives around it. And even of those that pay no income tax, few pay no taxes- only 18% of households pay no payroll tax in addition to no n income tax. I don't like the tax code any more than you, but painting it as if nearly half of Americans are completely dodging taxes is just blatantly false in so many levels.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/26/pf/taxes/income-tax/

 

[deleted480308]

We've gone over this a lot though. The majority of the households paying no income tax are on Social Security, a system they paid into their whole lives and we can't just cut off because they planned their lives around it. And even of those that pay no income tax, few pay no taxes- only 18% of households pay no payroll tax in addition to no n income tax. I don't like the tax code any more than you, but painting it as if nearly half of Americans are completely dodging taxes is just blatantly false in so many levels.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/26/pf/taxes/income-tax/

they pay some local/sales/payroll etc......but I specifically stated federal income tax, the source of funding for the actual running of our government and roughly half of the country does completely dodge even paying $1 into the general fund

 

[Mad Jack]

they pay some local/sales/payroll etc......but I specifically stated federal income tax, the source of funding for the actual running of our government and roughly half of the country does completely dodge even paying $1 into the general fund

Except for the fact that those payroll taxes pay for 46% of federal spending (SS and Medicare). Sure, there are a fraction of people (less than 1 in 5 households if you subtract out retirees) that do not pay for the other 54% of non-payroll tax general fund government spending, but their incomes are so abysmal taxing then wouldn't even dent the federal budget. They would be even poorer and hungrier though, which really isn't good for national stability.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

But this isn't Canada, it's the United States.

(Below is my retort/Go America July 4th speech!!)

Don't take this like it sounds -- but if you like Canada's system, go live in Canada, or any other country that coincides with your belief system.

What I mean by that is the United States was founded on certain laws and principles (Constitution/Bill of Rights). Some good. Some bad. But those are the laws, period, whether you like them or not. If you don't agree with those laws, you have the freedom and choice to live in another country. Or, if a majority of the U.S. population chooses to put the Constitution in the paper shredder, then at that point we'll establish a new system.

I don't get people who want to change America. That would be like me coming into your home, where you have an established set of rules... let's say your kids go to bed at nine, I come in and say, no your kids can go to bed at 10:00. WTF? What right do I have to change the basic rules of your home?

And to extend on the whole 'freedom' thing, that's why I'm totally against any form of federal government, federal laws, etc. I think they are completely null. This is the United STATES of America, not Russia. The people who founded this country intended for the states to have their own laws and govern themselves, no all-inclusive government that's has the final say in everything. I'd love to go back in time and kick John Adams in the rear. Although Franklin D. Roosevelt really put us on the path to destruction. Okay, I'm getting off-topic.

If the states governed themselves, we would have real freedom. Let's say you live in California, if California instituted a law that didn't coincide with your belief system, you could move to... Nevada, or whichever state does. Let's say I'm gay and I want to get married, well states X Y and Z allow gays to marry, guess where I'm moving? If I'm anti-gay marriage, then I can choose to live in state A B or C.

When the federal government institutes a law, it takes away my/your freedom, because all of the states then have to abide by it, thus eliminating my ability to "escape" to another state which coincides with my belief system.

I think the best example is when the federal government recently sued Arizona...that was the epitome of irony.

Anywho, y'all have a Happy 4th.

The constitution can't change? Ever hear of an amendment.

The original constitution didn't outlaw slavery. Should we not have changed that? Thats how it orignally was so it shouldnt be changed period right? Should we have made it so some states have slavery and others states don't? Depending on your beliefs you could move to those states.


Starting to realize you really didn't think that through huh?


And why should I move. I love america. That doesn't mean I can't see its faults. Its undebatable that are healthcare system is terrible. We need to fix it and looking at successful healthcare systems like Canada is a good way to do that.

 

[coolingglasses]

But this isn't Canada, it's the United States.

(Below is my retort/Go America July 4th speech!!)

Don't take this like it sounds -- but if you like Canada's system, go live in Canada, or any other country that coincides with your belief system.

Come on man, I know you can do better than "if you don't like it, get out." This country wouldn't exist if people stuck to that line of thought.

What I mean by that is the United States was founded on certain laws and principles (Constitution/Bill of Rights). Some good. Some bad. But those are the laws, period, whether you like them or not. If you don't agree with those laws, you have the freedom and choice to live in another country. Or, if a majority of the U.S. population chooses to put the Constitution in the paper shredder, then at that point we'll establish a new system.

The argument that the Constitution is the law and is therefore infallible is a bit silly. The Constitution was amended many times, sometimes favorably (cessation of slavery, expansion of voting rights) and sometimes not (prohibition).

I don't get people who want to change America. That would be like me coming into your home, where you have an established set of rules... let's say your kids go to bed at nine, I come in and say, no your kids can go to bed at 10:00. WTF? What right do I have to change the basic rules of your home?

I don't understand this statement. At one point, it was legal to deny people of color the ability to patronize your business. The working theory is that they should take their money where their business IS wanted. But we all saw how that actually turned out and it is, in my opinion, a blight on our nation's history.

And to extend on the whole 'freedom' thing, that's why I'm totally against any form of federal government, federal laws, etc. I think they are completely null. This is the United STATES of America, not Russia. The people who founded this country intended for the states to have their own laws and govern themselves, no all-inclusive government that's has the final say in everything. I'd love to go back in time and kick John Adams in the rear. Although Franklin D. Roosevelt really put us on the path to destruction. Okay, I'm getting off-topic.

If the states governed themselves, we would have real freedom. Let's say you live in California, if California instituted a law that didn't coincide with your belief system, you could move to... Nevada, or whichever state does. Let's say I'm gay and I want to get married, well states X Y and Z allow gays to marry, guess where I'm moving? If I'm anti-gay marriage, then I can choose to live in state A B or C.

When the federal government institutes a law, it takes away my/your freedom, because all of the states then have to abide by it, thus eliminating my ability to "escape" to another state which coincides with my belief system.

I think the best example is when the federal government recently sued Arizona...that was the epitome of irony.

Anywho, y'all have a Happy 4th.

That's a bit extreme, isn't it? I'm all for state rights in general, but a few things need to have wider oversight. I used to be a statist on the gay marriage issue, but what this view fails to take into account is that not everyone has the mobility to uproot themselves and move to another state. Often, people are tied to their jobs and their families.

I'm a libertarian, but to a point. There are a few things (particularly, things I consider to be basic human rights) that I don't think should be turned over to the states. I still cringe thinking about how much opposition there was to integration.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

To OP you can find the various reasons why in a quick search as it has already been discussed at great length. Short answer is a school with fringe far right beliefs should have no business having a medical school. I have no problem with religious schools in general. The Jesuit schools=good, liberty= just no...

What the... Have you ever heard of the counterreformation where over 50 million protestants where murdered/martyred? Thats the Jesuits. And you imply a school run by them is 'better' than a "right wing fundamentalist baptist.' In what regard have fundamental Baptists done anything to compare with the Jesuits? Someone needs perspective.

 

[mik30102]

What the... Have you ever heard of the counterreformation where over 50 million protestants where murdered/martyred? Thats the Jesuits. And you imply a school run by them is 'better' than a "right wing fundamentalist baptist.' In what regard have fundamental Baptists done anything to compare with the Jesuits? Someone needs perspective.

Why you bumped the thread I do not know. Perspective?? How does something that happened over 500 years ago have anything to do with current day medical schools? How about you take a look at the past few decades instead.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Why you bumped the thread I do not know. Perspective?? How does something that happened over 500 years ago have anything to do with current day medical schools? How about you take a look at the past few decades instead.

Your correct I shouldnt have bumped, I was just shocked that anyone would call the Jesuits a 'good' order since I know their history. You got a gut reaction there.

 

[zero0]

What the... Have you ever heard of the counterreformation where over 50 million protestants where murdered/martyred? Thats the Jesuits. And you imply a school run by them is 'better' than a "right wing fundamentalist baptist.' In what regard have fundamental Baptists done anything to compare with the Jesuits? Someone needs perspective.

I don't get why people are getting all hyped up about this school's religious denomination. Tons of other schools have religious foundations--Loma Linda, Temple, TUCOM, Georgetown, etc. etc.--and, yes, some have a far worse track record than fundamentalist Christianity. So what? They'll still make you into a good doctor. I couldn't care less about the rest. No one's going to force you to convert to Christianity or something if you go to Liberty. All I care about is if it's going to be a good medical school, and sadly, no, it doesn't look that way.

 

[Goro]

Would you believe me if I told you that a lot of changes occur in 500 years?

Your correct I shouldnt have bumped, I was just shocked that anyone would call the Jesuits a 'good' order since I know their history. You got a gut reaction there.

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Would you believe me if I told you that a lot of changes occur in 500 years?

Not according to Obama who said we shouldn't be so hard on ISIS/ISIL becuase of the Christian Crusades

 

[Goro]

You have 100% failed to understand what he was saying.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled inflammatory SDN thread.

Not according to Obama who said we shouldn't be so hard on ISIS/ISIL becuase of the Christian Crusades

 

[Dentalogist]

What the... Have you ever heard of the counterreformation where over 50 million protestants where murdered/martyred? Thats the Jesuits. And you imply a school run by them is 'better' than a "right wing fundamentalist baptist.' In what regard have fundamental Baptists done anything to compare with the Jesuits? Someone needs perspective.

I'm jesuit and I find this offensive. I'm no where near the right wing, but I think you need some perspective. I'll pray for you. God Bless