Wwar of Three WWorlds- Game Thread

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Lupin21 said:
I disagree. The mafia games rely on people using their ability to question people and have instincts for when someone is taking maybe a little too long to reply, voting in a manner that seems to have an agenda behind, etc. The games that we have played here were built on solid info for village wins, which isn't a good thing in my opinion.
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I mostly agree ... but ... having played a few games there and a billion here ...

The dynamic also is different in a way that I think impacts that play style. A much higher percentage of our players here have highly erratic schedules that make things like "taking maybe a little too long to reply" not as useful a metric.

I still agree with you, but I don't think that you can completely map the play style over at MU to SDN and have it work.
 
LetItSnow said:
I mostly agree ... but ... having played a few games there and a billion here ...

The dynamic also is different in a way that I think impacts that play style. A much higher percentage of our players here have highly erratic schedules that make things like "taking maybe a little too long to reply" not as useful a metric.

I still agree with you, but I don't think that you can completely map the play style over at MU to SDN and have it work.
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Can still track when someone was just posting then disappears if questioned, especially multiple times throughout the game. Definitely not always gonna be perfect, but I think good players can then sense when someone has legit reasons vs excuse. Trying to combine disappearance with everything else wolfy players may do is still the best strategy for hunting rather than trying to figure it out by mechanics or waiting for confirmation alone was my point. Plus, I can tell you these wolves were around at times and ignoring the hell outta the minor prodding. lol
 
Karabiner13 said:
@LadyOtheFarm the SAR kill is what made me suspicious of you. Did you choose her because you had just been a hydra last game?



Guess this means I think a lot like my manator

@WildZoo 😍
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Well, it was more because I had bigger reasons against killing anybody else. I had to balance keeping wolves and villagers around long enough and SAR said something about not being around to play as much or shouldn't be playing... so I obliged.

WildZoo said:
Why'd everybody wanna kill Kam? 🙁
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Because she came off village right away and somehow screamed target?

SkiOtter said:
ah yes but i was not playing, but i can lynch her ded her next game if thats what she wishes
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You all heard it right from the otters mouth, she is playing in the next game!
 
Lupin21 said:
Can still track when someone was just posting then disappears if questioned, especially multiple times throughout the game. Definitely not always gonna be perfect, but I think good players can then sense when someone has legit reasons vs excuse. Trying to combine disappearance with everything else wolfy players may do is still the best strategy for hunting rather than trying to figure it out by mechanics or waiting for confirmation alone was my point. Plus, I can tell you these wolves were around at times and ignoring the hell outta the minor prodding. lol
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With our jobs, we easily can be present then just "disappear", unfortunately animals don't get sick/have emergencies on ww schedule. Can't tell you how many times I've been playing ww, had a second to check in, maybe make a post then SHTF and I'm gone until after lynch close. Heck there have been times I've come back to find that I've typed 3-4 words that were clearly meant to be something for the ww game but I'll never recall what I was attempting to say and I have to start over reading the thread, which gets annoying because I'd just caught up. Plus add in if the deadlines are ****ty and well, you can see how I might go from one game being talkative to the next not saying much at all....simply because by the time I have a moment to say anything lynch has ended. This game was great for timing but a lot of games have recently been in this kick of lynch and night close at night and that really doesn't work well for those that have jobs.
 
DVMDream said:
With our jobs, we easily can be present then just "disappear", unfortunately animals don't get sick/have emergencies on ww schedule. Can't tell you how many times I've been playing ww, had a second to check in, maybe make a post then SHTF and I'm gone until after lynch close. Heck there have been times I've come back to find that I've typed 3-4 words that were clearly meant to be something for the ww game but I'll never recall what I was attempting to say and I have to start over reading the thread, which gets annoying because I'd just caught up. Plus add in if the deadlines are ****ty and well, you can see how I might go from one game being talkative to the next not saying much at all....simply because by the time I have a moment to say anything lynch has ended. This game was great for timing but a lot of games have recently been in this kick of lynch and night close at night and that really doesn't work well for those that have jobs.
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Yup.

And Lupin .. I've played only a few games over there, but in *EACH ONE* the same "OMG, he's sketchy" line has been tossed out when I"m absent for a day or two (in my work cycle) then present and responding and playing ... and then absent again (back in the work cycle). They put HUGE weight on that kind of thing over there, and it just doesn't work (as well) here.

I mean, I've been harping in pre-vet SDN for a long time about playing a more game-play analysis style than analyze-the-mechanics style ... but I really don't think MU-style play will ever "completely" work well here. Typical vet students and vets just have too chaotic of lives. As a pre-vet it shouldn't be as bad, but we have so many players who are past that stage....
 
LetItSnow said:
Yup.

And Lupin .. I've played only a few games over there, but in *EACH ONE* the same "OMG, he's sketchy" line has been tossed out when I"m absent for a day or two (in my work cycle) then present and responding and playing ... and then absent again (back in the work cycle). They put HUGE weight on that kind of thing over there, and it just doesn't work (as well) here.

I mean, I've been harping in pre-vet SDN for a long time about playing a more game-play analysis style than analyze-the-mechanics style ... but I really don't think MU-style play will ever "completely" work well here. Typical vet students and vets just have too chaotic of lives. As a pre-vet it shouldn't be as bad, but we have so many players who are past that stage....
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You might notice I never called you out though. 😛 Or really anyone for their absence in general. I call people out when they do come back on and hand wave stuff away that I was attempting to question them about. I understand what you are saying as far as being busy and disappearing, but there is so much more than that. It isn't black and white that someone suddenly disappears equals them being a wolf. It is a series of patterns and answers when they do come back on.

I am not trying to insist people will always be on point, but I can address what I see when I am not playing. This game there were people like AM and even WZ and STL I think wondered about krabs after shelter was lynched, but guess what? She never said anything about that because they never pressured her into saying anything. You can't just tag someone and say I'd like to hear more. You have to make them accountable to talk, answer questions, who do they think is sketchy and why. Then not let them get away with just pushing stuff that has already been said by everyone else on the thread already, aka no original thoughts.

I understand that most of the people here don't play that way. But when the game design is called into question saying it was wolf heavy and the problem was the villagers didn't have seer power, I have to break out my typical beef about how our particular villagers play for the most part. Too afraid to push reads without solid evidence. It drives me crazy. And I am definitely not saying the game design was perfect, but there were plenty of reasons this game could have gone another way and just as easily been a village victory. To prove it, I will like I said run this set-up again, just change the story plot. Again, taking away anything being able to be analyzed about character as far as it being a mech, mage or animoid to help solidify evidence for village, forcing the player analysis to be the main weapon.

Speed games are the perfect example. Villagers were kicking ass in the last few I saw, and it wasn't based on mechanics, it was because the speed makes people have to rely on their feelings on someone. I don't get why it can't be translated into a full length game.

I shall step off my soap box though. I have plenty of games where I am on point, and plenty where I am not. What I am usually good at though is determining who is having a good game and learn to listen to them. I think people would really benefit here to let that happen and not fight it. haha
 
Lupin21 said:
Speed games are the perfect example. Villagers were kicking ass in the last few I saw, and it wasn't based on mechanics, it was because the speed makes people have to rely on their feelings on someone. I don't get why it can't be translated into a full length game.
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Yup. I think it's pretty obvious from how I play (when I'm fully engaged, anyway) that I'm a big believer in that.

I mean. I had a streak when I was paying attention and investing energy not too long ago where my D1 vote was for a wolf in 3/5 games. That's a pretty damn good ratio. And I think it soundly refutes all the people who toss out the tired "it's D1, we don't know anything, so RNG lynch so 'n so". I really HATE that.
 
I don't think village played very well this game.

But I also think that it was weighed to wolves slightly; yeah, five scum for 21 is mid twenties, but every double kill is essentially two nights of action for a wolf team, and the lynch close causing a double kill was even worse because it stripped the village tool for that day. Being able to pool money in a circle of trust and then being able to pass the items to one another also is kinda rough.

You can say, yeah, village could have done similar, but again... informed minority vs. clueless majority, and that comes with huge risk. Same goes for the chastising about not using AM. No guarantee she was not scummy and we wouldn't be funnelling info and items straight to wolf ears. I know LIS hates them, but I do really like roles like that as neutral.
 
Lupin21 said:
I disagree. The mafia games rely on people using their ability to question people and have instincts for when someone is taking maybe a little too long to reply, voting in a manner that seems to have an agenda behind, etc. The games that we have played here were built on solid info for village wins, which isn't a good thing in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I don't think you understand my objections, but doesn't really matter.

I don't think there was an issue of taking away powers from village to get more questioning, but you can't then empower wolves, or make them numerous, or other advantages.

We screwed ourselves out of 1 villager advantage with the STL initiated mass move, but your comments that we under-utilized gatekeeper are more of a game flaw. Why would anyone trust a god role when there is no certainty to their affiliation, and where there is little chance of seering them and safely passing the info on. Certainly didn't help to lose our seer so early, but that was never gonna fly. Trust has to be earned (and fwiw, I think AM played weird and made it hard to trust her... unless there were some role restrictions we didn't know about).

Anyway, we mostly screwed ourselves, and the wolves did a great job, kudos to them.
 
Lupin21 said:
You might notice I never called you out though. 😛 Or really anyone for their absence in general. I call people out when they do come back on and hand wave stuff away that I was attempting to question them about. I understand what you are saying as far as being busy and disappearing, but there is so much more than that. It isn't black and white that someone suddenly disappears equals them being a wolf. It is a series of patterns and answers when they do come back on.

I am not trying to insist people will always be on point, but I can address what I see when I am not playing. This game there were people like AM and even WZ and STL I think wondered about krabs after shelter was lynched, but guess what? She never said anything about that because they never pressured her into saying anything. You can't just tag someone and say I'd like to hear more. You have to make them accountable to talk, answer questions, who do they think is sketchy and why. Then not let them get away with just pushing stuff that has already been said by everyone else on the thread already, aka no original thoughts.

I understand that most of the people here don't play that way. But when the game design is called into question saying it was wolf heavy and the problem was the villagers didn't have seer power, I have to break out my typical beef about how our particular villagers play for the most part. Too afraid to push reads without solid evidence. It drives me crazy. And I am definitely not saying the game design was perfect, but there were plenty of reasons this game could have gone another way and just as easily been a village victory. To prove it, I will like I said run this set-up again, just change the story plot. Again, taking away anything being able to be analyzed about character as far as it being a mech, mage or animoid to help solidify evidence for village, forcing the player analysis to be the main weapon.

Speed games are the perfect example. Villagers were kicking ass in the last few I saw, and it wasn't based on mechanics, it was because the speed makes people have to rely on their feelings on someone. I don't get why it can't be translated into a full length game.

I shall step off my soap box though. I have plenty of games where I am on point, and plenty where I am not. What I am usually good at though is determining who is having a good game and learn to listen to them. I think people would really benefit here to let that happen and not fight it. haha
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The problem is, when I do this to people that aren't as familiar with me (Dubz, MJ, etc.) they take actual offense to me goading them repeatedly. So I can be passive with it and hope they respond, or piss more and more people off (which is fine if it stands within the confines of being mad at me within a single game, but it doesn't end up happening in such a manner). So I do it with people that I know have thick skins (aka this is a compliment to people like @LetItSnow who has been on the opposite side of this multiple times), and if I don't know if they have thick skins or not, then I go more passive with it. If you think I play aggressive now, my game is even more so with people that I don't see as future colleagues (last time me and BI played one with friends in person, it ended up in a very heated argument between me and her. Everyone was concerned we were actually mad over the game, we were laughing about it half an hour later in the car ride home)
 
SummerTheLynx said:
The problem is, when I do this to people that aren't as familiar with me (Dubz, MJ, etc.) they take actual offense to me goading them repeatedly. So I can be passive with it and hope they respond, or piss more and more people off (which is fine if it stands within the confines of being mad at me within a single game, but it doesn't end up happening in such a manner). So I do it with people that I know have thick skins (aka this is a compliment to people like @LetItSnow who has been on the opposite side of this multiple times), and if I don't know if they have thick skins or not, then I go more passive with it. If you think I play aggressive now, my game is even more so with people that I don't see as future colleagues (last time me and BI played one with friends in person, it ended up in a very heated argument between me and her. Everyone was concerned we were actually mad over the game, we were laughing about it half an hour later in the car ride home)
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Why are you assuming I'm not actually offended? :rage:
 
StartingoverVet said:
I don't think you understand my objections, but doesn't really matter.

I don't think there was an issue of taking away powers from village to get more questioning, but you can't then empower wolves, or make them numerous, or other advantages.

We screwed ourselves out of 1 villager advantage with the STL initiated mass move, but your comments that we under-utilized gatekeeper are more of a game flaw. Why would anyone trust a god role when there is no certainty to their affiliation, and where there is little chance of seering them and safely passing the info on. Certainly didn't help to lose our seer so early, but that was never gonna fly. Trust has to be earned (and fwiw, I think AM played weird and made it hard to trust her... unless there were some role restrictions we didn't know about).

Anyway, we mostly screwed ourselves, and the wolves did a great job, kudos to them.
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If people had put in to move more, the way the gate keeper worked was simply to get a list of abilities or items to choose from, if they chose one to use, the rest got their stuff back and everyone moved. I think it would have been pretty easy to gauge if the Keeper was village or not based on how that was used. Like I said, I would love to run this again and see more villager strategy used.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
The problem is, when I do this to people that aren't as familiar with me (Dubz, MJ, etc.) they take actual offense to me goading them repeatedly. So I can be passive with it and hope they respond, or piss more and more people off (which is fine if it stands within the confines of being mad at me within a single game, but it doesn't end up happening in such a manner). So I do it with people that I know have thick skins (aka this is a compliment to people like @LetItSnow who has been on the opposite side of this multiple times), and if I don't know if they have thick skins or not, then I go more passive with it. If you think I play aggressive now, my game is even more so with people that I don't see as future colleagues (last time me and BI played one with friends in person, it ended up in a very heated argument between me and her. Everyone was concerned we were actually mad over the game, we were laughing about it half an hour later in the car ride home)
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Then learn to be more charming with your questioning rather than bullying. 😉
 
Trilt said:
I don't think village played very well this game.

But I also think that it was weighed to wolves slightly; yeah, five scum for 21 is mid twenties, but every double kill is essentially two nights of action for a wolf team, and the lynch close causing a double kill was even worse because it stripped the village tool for that day. Being able to pool money in a circle of trust and then being able to pass the items to one another also is kinda rough.

You can say, yeah, village could have done similar, but again... informed minority vs. clueless majority, and that comes with huge risk. Same goes for the chastising about not using AM. No guarantee she was not scummy and we wouldn't be funnelling info and items straight to wolf ears. I know LIS hates them, but I do really like roles like that as neutral.
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Again, the double lynch kills were because I wanted a fast game, and it was villagers pushing the other tie after they saw what happened with the first, so...
 
Lupin21 said:
If people had put in to move more, the way the gate keeper worked was simply to get a list of abilities or items to choose from, if they chose one to use, the rest got their stuff back and everyone moved. I think it would have been pretty easy to gauge if the Keeper was village or not based on how that was used. Like I said, I would love to run this again and see more villager strategy used.
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😱
 
WildZoo said:
😱
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Pretty sure AM told you guys at least that she only gets a list of powers. It was then up to you guys to take a risk to see the rest. I was pretty disappointed no one wanted to test it and condemned it without knowing anything about it. harrumph
 
Lupin21 said:
Pretty sure AM told you guys at least that she only gets a list of powers. It was then up to you guys to take a risk to see the rest. I was pretty disappointed no one wanted to test it and condemned it without knowing anything about it. harrumph
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The 20 questions format from AM didn't help that I think which is why I pointed it out 😀
 
Lupin21 said:
Pretty sure AM told you guys at least that she only gets a list of powers. It was then up to you guys to take a risk to see the rest. I was pretty disappointed no one wanted to test it and condemned it without knowing anything about it. harrumph
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And this also explains why I allowed money pooling for wolves if they were on the same planet. That way they could move without giving away their abilities if GK was village. If GK was wolf though, weeeeee!!!!!!
 
Lupin21 said:
Pretty sure AM told you guys at least that she only gets a list of powers. It was then up to you guys to take a risk to see the rest. I was pretty disappointed no one wanted to test it and condemned it without knowing anything about it. harrumph
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I honestly don't remember :laugh: I wasn't interested in moving at the time that discussion happened I think. And then when she said she wouldn't be using abilities I didn't want to move and lose a night of tracking.
 
WildZoo said:
I honestly don't remember :laugh: I wasn't interested in moving at the time that discussion happened I think. And then when she said she wouldn't be using abilities I didn't want to move and lose a night of tracking.
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It wouldn't have been lost though if AM chose to use it. 🙂
 
Lupin21 said:
It wouldn't have been lost though if AM chose to use it. 🙂
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Oh I know, that's why I asked her about why she wasn't using anything she got. But didn't want to be like "Hey if I move could you pretty please use my ability?" lol
 
WildZoo said:
Oh I know, that's why I asked her about why she wasn't using anything she got. But didn't want to be like "Hey if I move could you pretty please use my ability?" lol
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hehe. Yeah, it was amusing that AM actually had the best instinct this game, but screwed herself and you guys by being dodgy with the position you crazies elected a universally wrongly read player to. 😆
 
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