WWelcome to Rehab signups (+/- game thread)

[LetItSnow]

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Not when you're wolf

Things that make me go "hmm."

 

[WildZoo]

By definition I can't have been a wolf that "joined in on the kal vote; I started the vote.

So you don't have to think it; you can know it. 🙂

Make up your mind about whether you want me to suspect you or not please 😉

 

[LetItSnow]

Meh, I typically don't feel the need to talk to people in PM unless I have a power role or something and I'm able to clear someone before talking to them. But in a game where it's clear that we can't openly PM people without the use of an item, I think it's more wise to go ahead and use it. Even if you don't trust the person. I think there's something to be said for how people react to being PMed. Did they respond? Did they ghost? Did they act weird?

I don't think I'm moving my vote.

Me either. It was actually pretty out of my norm to open the line of communication to Pippy N1.

Mostly did it for two reasons:

1) It's a game without constant PM'ing, so wanted to take advantage of it; and

2) Pippy and I are like two countries with nukes pointed at each other just waiting to go off. If we're both village, that's never very useful. So I wanted to decide what I thought of Pippy early on.

 

[nyanko]

Meh, I typically don't feel the need to talk to people in PM unless I have a power role or something and I'm able to clear someone before talking to them. But in a game where it's clear that we can't openly PM people without the use of an item, I think it's more wise to go ahead and use it. Even if you don't trust the person. I think there's something to be said for how people react to being PMed. Did they respond? Did they ghost? Did they act weird?

I don't think I'm moving my vote.

i don't care what you think is more wise, i didn't want to use it so i didn't.

 

[nyanko]

if i had used it people would probably think it was suspicious anyhow because i am pretty well known for not really talking in PMs, especially early on.

 

[nyanko]

to people who may not know me: i'm an easy target for wolves to put suspicion on too, so don't forget who's pushing this if i go down

 

[LetItSnow]

Make up your mind about whether you want me to suspect you or not please 😉

You should currently not suspect me, because I'm village.

You should suspect me around 80% of the way through the game when the wolves convert me against my will. Unless kaydubs gives me an option to "convert or die."

🙂

 

[LetItSnow]

Wolf pack could make use of this 'typical' brain-dead tendency. Whether you are wolf now or in future, this isn't great help wolf hunting.

.... That time when you catch a wolf D1 and someone who hasn't done SQUAT in the game to be helpful criticizes you for not being helpful.

Yeah, ok, SM. Tell me again how helpful you've been?

 

[LetItSnow]

Sorry wasn't here, was sleeping yesterday. Just fyi

Psssst. That wasn't helpful. And, btw, whether you're a wolf now or in the future, wolves could use that tendency of yours to skip the game.....

 

[LetItSnow]

i don't care what you think is more wise, i didn't want to use it so i didn't.

Definitely in line with nyanko's meta.

Problem is, her meta is the same whether she's vanillager, PR-village, PR-wolf, etc.

 

[Crayola227]

i don't care what you think is more wise, i didn't want to use it so i didn't.

I would argue that one should care just a bit what villagers think is wise for villager. PM behavior can catch wolves. So not being willing to PM no matter who you are can be grounds for lynching. Just as not talking on a thread. Other villagers might not agree with this and you might not be lynched for it. Personally I don't like the attitude.

 

[WildZoo]

I'm not really impressed with the ny votes since the reasoning i've seen is absence/not voting/not opening a PM. None of those things are wolfy for ny.

 

[LetItSnow]

This from the 'brain-dead tendency' guy?😛

Are you actually going to do anything useful in the game, or are you just going to show up and attack me for not being useful when you yourself haven't done anything?

Screw it:

unlynch whomever (allieh?)
lynch Stella Mudd

The idiocy level is just too high with this one.

 

[nyanko]

I would argue that one should care just a bit what villagers think is wise for villager.

are you soft clearing allie here

 

[WildZoo]

I would argue that one should care just a bit what villagers think is wise for villager. PM behavior can catch wolves. So not being willing to PM no matter who you are can be grounds for lynching. Just as not talking on a thread. Other villagers might not agree with this and you might not be lynched for it. Personally I don't like the attitude.

I think not being willing to PM is very different from not talking on the thread at all. Those of us who play through post volume tend to get a kind of superior attitude over the people who play more quietly, and I don't really think that's well placed. Sure, if a player is giving you nothing to work with at all, that's a valid vote. But not being willing to PM? Hell, even I've gotten communication items before, as a villager, and not used them. Because I had nothing to say and I'm very easily pocketed via PM, which makes it more of a risk than a benefit for me in many cases.

Again I haven't seen the items so idk the exact details of the way they work, but I don't much like the implication that not PMing=wolfy.

 

[Crayola227]

are you soft clearing allie here

lol, so me agreeing that your behavior is not village friendly is soft clearing someone else? nice way to spin the criticism of you to cast shade on the person criticizing you

 

[WildZoo]

lol, so me agreeing that your behavior is not village friendly is soft clearing someone else? nice way to spin the criticism of you to cast shade on the person criticizing you

I kind of agree with ny there though, you're assuming that allie is village in your statement

 

[LetItSnow]

I think not being willing to PM is very different from not talking on the thread at all. Those of us who play through post volume tend to get a kind of superior attitude over the people who play more quietly, and I don't really think that's well placed. Sure, if a player is giving you nothing to work with at all, that's a valid vote. But not being willing to PM? Hell, even I've gotten communication items before, as a villager, and not used them. Because I had nothing to say and I'm very easily pocketed via PM, which makes it more of a risk than a benefit for me in many cases.

Again I haven't seen the items so idk the exact details of the way they work, but I don't much like the implication that not PMing=wolfy.

It's not a superior attitude, WZ.

Nyanko is wicked smart. Has nothing to do with that.

The problem is - how do you evaluate her? You can't. She won't PM. She won't say much in thread - just comes in, throws a vote, tells you to f off if you ask her why, and that's that.

So you're stuck: is she (or other players with that approach) a wolf or village? Almost no way (aside from seering) to tell. She's too savvy to get much out of her voting history.

I agree with you (and Nyanko) regarding PM'ing. I don't find anything inherently sketching in a meta of not wanting to PM.

 

[LetItSnow]

Wouldn't we then have less wolves to worry about?

Wake me up when you a) start making sense, and b) have something useful to contribute.

 

[nyanko]

lol, so me agreeing that your behavior is not village friendly is soft clearing someone else? nice way to spin the criticism of you to cast shade on the person criticizing you

how's it casting shade? just making an observation. your wording was such that it implied that by not caring what allie thinks is the proper way to use or not use an item, i'm not caring what other villagers think.

but....you're not wrong, i don't actually care what villagers think about my decisions, at least not to the point that i'm going to go oh yeah, you're right, i should have just messaged someone, wow. so keep criticizing that.

 

[WildZoo]

It's not a superior attitude, WZ.

Nyanko is wicked smart. Has nothing to do with that.

The problem is - how do you evaluate her? You can't. She won't PM. She won't say much in thread - just comes in, throws a vote, tells you to f off if you ask her why, and that's that.

So you're stuck: is she (or other players with that approach) a wolf or village? Almost no way (aside from seering) to tell.

I agree with you (and Nyanko) regarding PM'ing. I don't find anything inherently sketching in a meta of not wanting to PM.

My point was more along the lines of the PMing. The superior attitude was just...really something I've seen before - to me it sometimes comes across like we should inherently lynch people who talk less earlier than people who flood the thread with posts, just because the talkative people are talking. That's how wolves like me and pip get away with **** lol I agree it is hard to evaluate ny, but it's probably not impossible. She's been caught as a wolf before. I'm just not liking the feeling I'm getting from the posts surrounding her today.

 

[genny]

Got 5 minutes for lunch. Saw that someone brought up my votes for ny then Snowy. Ny wasn’t a serious vote, and I’m probably not going there today. Snowy was half serious, in that I tend to get Snowy lynched and find this amusing, but also Snowy is smart enough to pick AM for a N1 kill to implicate people who played the lounge game. I would like to hear more from Snowy.

Also Pippy, remember how I mentioned notifications from the mods seeming to be more than expected? Totally true for last night. 😉

 

[LetItSnow]

My point was more along the lines of the PMing. The superior attitude was just...really something I've seen before - to me it sometimes comes across like we should inherently lynch people who talk less earlier than people who flood the thread with posts, just because the talkative people are talking. That's how wolves like me and pip get away with **** lol I agree it is hard to evaluate ny, but it's probably not impossible. She's been caught as a wolf before. I'm just not liking the feeling I'm getting from the posts surrounding her today.

Fair 'nuff. I should probably caveat my comments with "I can't read her with such little info." If other people can - awesome.

 

[Crayola227]

Wouldn't we then have less wolves to worry about?

Wolf win condition is typically wolf numbers = villager numbers. So if the wolf doesn't play, but remains unlynched, but the rest of the pack plays and kills, the villagers can lose to wolfpack with minimally active players.

So excuses to be quiet or not play are looked on harshly because wolves can hide and win by not playing. I don't think LIS means "skip" as in a formal "skipping" of the game - like skipping the next game of pool.

 

[Crayola227]

Wake me up when you a) start making sense, and b) have something useful to contribute.

LIS, you're being a little harsh here. There's kinder ways to teach a noob the lessons you're teaching. I know because I learned yours the hard way.

 

[nyanko]

tone policing, trying to "teach" noobs game mechanics, word vomit. unlynch lawper and lynch crayola

 

[Crayola227]

I kind of agree with ny there though, you're assuming that allie is village in your statement

I don't have to assume Allie is village in my statement that what she said earlier describes what has always been my attitude about PM'ing. Wolves and villagers frequently agree about statements of what they think is good game play.

 

[Crayola227]

tone policing, trying to "teach" noobs game mechanics, word vomit. unlynch lawper and lynch crayola

yes, because all of that makes me a wolf

great job with your wolf hunting here

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

Catching up

I know what you're thinking AM, and yes...I am about to be hydrated 😉

I remember some rule about hydrated wolves liking to talk to AM... 😛

### Contingency Lynch Pippy ###

“Not a wolf?” Come on. Who’s going to believe that? 😛

hmmmm... Easy joke vote.

### contingency lynch mixed animals ###

Retaliating just for someone thinking you're a wolf in a prior game even when it had nothing to do with getting killed, is just mean and too retaliatory.

Wondering if MA is a wolf and just doesn't to risk Lawper tunneling her this game, only being right this time. Also Lawper tends to be an easy lynch to push. Also gonna WIFOM that MA is going to spin that she wouldn't do that as a wolf, and that trying to push his lynch might just make her look wolfy and have the opposite effect as people push back against his lynch. Then claiming it really means she's village.

Also too much justification and a poor one for a D1 lynch. Not that I'm not guilty of the same.

Woah this is excessive D1 accusations even for you cray.

Mixy is acting weird, good job n00blet unfortunately that leads to votes like this.

*****contingency lynch mixy*****

I hope you're not a wolf, but I did the exact same thing as a wolf once. Willing to change if others come up as sketchier.

Still don't see the mixy is weirdness from that one post... And that is all I saw last game.

And um, there was 6 minutes between MA's vote and kaydub's post that PM roles were out. Given that there's 15 players, even with a co-mod, there a decent chance MA already had their role PM.

Not sure of what I make about kaydub's like.

People establish these jokey rules about who they're going to lynch, but unless I see some history between 2 people doing that ongoing and as villagers, it would be very clever before roles go out to establish a D1 throwaway vote so one can hide behind that if they end up wolf.
And lightbulb why the sign up posts about less activity looks sketch. Doesn't matter you don't know if wolf or villager yet. Leaving the door open, trying to cultivate village cred. Village cred matters for villager and wolf alike. Unnecessarily sketchy for a villager, more useful if you end up wolf.

I think you've already gotten yourself stuck in a crazy tinfoil hat tunnel here...

 

[nyanko]

thanks

 

[Crayola227]

I think not being willing to PM is very different from not talking on the thread at all. Those of us who play through post volume tend to get a kind of superior attitude over the people who play more quietly, and I don't really think that's well placed. Sure, if a player is giving you nothing to work with at all, that's a valid vote. But not being willing to PM? Hell, even I've gotten communication items before, as a villager, and not used them. Because I had nothing to say and I'm very easily pocketed via PM, which makes it more of a risk than a benefit for me in many cases.

Again I haven't seen the items so idk the exact details of the way they work, but I don't much like the implication that not PMing=wolfy.

Like any choice in WW, why and context can make a difference. But this sort of

attitude for whether or not you engage in modalities designed to help the game, I don't like. I mean yeah, you can do what you want. But it can suck.

 

[LetItSnow]

LIS, you're being a little harsh here. There's kinder ways to teach a noob the lessons you're teaching. I know because I learned yours the hard way.

I'm being a little harsh?

Player who missed the entire first 1.5 days of play comes in and tells me I'm not being helpful? After I (full admission it was lucky) caught a wolf D1 and they haven't done squat? And continue to not do squat?

No... no, I don't think so. The harshness was well-deserved.

If you want kindness, go play Scrabble with your grandmother. If you want to play WW, bring some thick skin.

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

I'm so excited, you have no idea.

As your resident disinterested nonplayer, I might occasionally provide certain players with assistance or hindrance depending on my mood and whether I am capable of fulfilling their needs. More of my nature will be revealed with time, but we shall have quite the game together.

So nothing different then your normal play eh?

Actually pretty surprised I lived through the night.

Unlynch LIS

Why are you so surprised? AM lived until the end last game, that is usually a pretty normal N1 kill.

I'm pretty sure that hard clears me.

But does it???

Just found out this game started and that AM was a wolf in the lounge game. Fooled me in PM!

I do find it sketchy that you lived through the night. Makes me squint at both you and WZ. And maybe LIS if he read his role PM yesterday.

Why is everyone so surprised pippy lived through the night? If she's a wolf she would have lived and if she's village she will probably get herself lynched sooner or later and if certain people are wolves (WZ) they'd probably want to keep her alive for a bit because they like her..?

 

[LetItSnow]

yes, because all of that makes me a wolf

great job with your wolf hunting here

Wording here kinnnnnnda smacks of "right wolf, wrong reason" frustration.

 

[Crayola227]

how's it casting shade? just making an observation. your wording was such that it implied that by not caring what allie thinks is the proper way to use or not use an item, i'm not caring what other villagers think.

but....you're not wrong, i don't actually care what villagers think about my decisions, at least not to the point that i'm going to go oh yeah, you're right, i should have just messaged someone, wow. so keep criticizing that.

I agreed with allie's comment about PM'ing being a data point, one that I value. I assumed when you said you didn't care what allie thought of you PM'ing or not, it was because you were generally saying you don't care what *anyone* thinks about your PM'ing. Since the majority of anyone here are villagers... I took that to mean you don't care what village thinks of this.

Maybe you just meant you don't care for allie's opinion in particular.

I also already said that I'm leaning village on Allie.

 

[Mad Jack]

So nothing different then your normal play eh?



Why are you so surprised? AM lived until the end last game, that is usually a pretty normal N1 kill.



But does it???



Why is everyone so surprised pippy lived through the night? If she's a wolf she would have lived and if she's village she will probably get herself lynched sooner or later and if certain people are wolves (WZ) they'd probably want to keep her alive for a bit because they like her..?

Slightly different, as I automatically win and can't die, so you're all basically just a means to an end for me. My machinations are already turning, hopefully they fall in your favor

 

[Crayola227]

tone policing, trying to "teach" noobs game mechanics, word vomit. unlynch lawper and lynch crayola

silent player that you can't read, usually ghosts, and we've typically lost to because we didn't want to lynch her for silence, who's also basically just done what they always do as defense, "I don't care about village, I'll play/not play however I want,"

unlynch coopah

lynch nyanko

since everyone today thinks it's better to police through lynch votes than just words

 

[LetItSnow]

Why is everyone so surprised pippy lived through the night? If she's a wolf she would have lived and if she's village she will probably get herself lynched sooner or later and if certain people are wolves (WZ) they'd probably want to keep her alive for a bit because they like her..?

Where did you get the impression "everyone [is] so surprised" that Pippy lived through the night? Pippy made that one post... but I missed it if other people expressed surprise.

I have a suspicion why Pippy was surprised, but I'm gonna leave it off the table.

 

[LetItSnow]

Crayola is starting to sound like a mean drunk. Like early-games Crayola. Has some bite. I like it.

 

[Crayola227]

Catching up



I remember some rule about hydrated wolves liking to talk to AM... 😛



hmmmm... Easy joke vote.



Woah this is excessive D1 accusations even for you cray.



Still don't see the mixy is weirdness from that one post... And that is all I saw last game.



I think you've already gotten yourself stuck in a crazy tinfoil hat tunnel here...

I guess you and Nyanko both missed the part where I talked it through with MA and WZ and said I was over it and content with her defense. I didn't move my vote because it was a D1 vote anyway, no one caught me as sketchier, and I don't tend to change votes without what I consider much cause.

 

[LetItSnow]

Stella, btw, is doing pretty much what ... um ... the wolf, whatever her name was, did.

Didn't contribute much, lashed out a bit, then started liking posts that involve conflict between other people unrelated to her.

 

[Crayola227]

Wording here kinnnnnnda smacks of "right wolf, wrong reason" frustration.

WW Jesus, you know that is where you and I disagree. You adapted that from MJ and like it as reasoning. I don't, because I think many villagers get just as upset when they feel they are being lynched/targeted for bullshyte reasons.

The truth is I don't think Nyanko actually believes I am a wolf. Yes, there are reasons for voting for villagers, and maybe I've met her criteria. I still find fault with it, and I won't apologize for that. Maybe she's voting me for being a crappy villager, but crappy wolf hunting is also crappy villaging.

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

This is correct. Might sour me on one side or the other this early on. I was specifically told to pick favorites, and I am aware of how many people from each side participate in a given lynch.

ooh this is an interesting ability! But the real question is are you actually neutral or do you favour one side over the other?

Pippy joked that she was surprised to still be alive, so I joked that made me squint at you and her. Because you really expect me to believe that you’re going to kill Pip N1?

I’m all seriousness though, the AM kill is a better lead than Pip being alive. And that does point to the group who played the lounge game. I find it interesting that Pippy focused on me and allieh so quickly, excluding you, her, LIS, and cray. Gee, that group sounds familiar for some reason.....

There is a pretty low probability they are all wolves together again. I don't know. I didn't play/spectate/really know anything about the lounge game and I still think the AM kill makes sense from her living to the end in the wwhisk game. And that leaves most of the players here who played or spectated that game. So I don't think it's a great lead.

It is.
Because it could also be someone who played the Baking game. It could be someone who played neither but knew that killing AM would point towards a player in one or both of those games. Or even someone who played neither but just looked at who lived long recently. It could be a combination of these people within the same pack, even!

As you said though, d1.

In the interest of not widening the field...

lynch allie

Why don't you want to widen the field. Doesn't that encourage discussion.

Wait, Snowy's playing?
unlynch ny
lynch snowy

I can always count on you to want me dead.

Lynch youngkal

Why the sudden switch. And to youngkal of all people?

Just caught up. Some thoughts.

I'm a bit confused as to what happened in the night cycle discussion. I read Mixy's vote on me as a joke because I was wrong about her being a wolf in the past two games in a row. But I'm lost by Cray's responses to that and her followup N1 reads (even though many players weren't available). I appreciate Cray's desire for me to play longer in the game as I died too early in past two games, but I'm not following her reasoning of Mixy's joke vote being a wolfy move. I'm also confused by Coop's followup agreement with Cray's reasoning and even going far to also vote Mixy.

I just thought Mixy's vote was meant to be a joke and nothing more than that. The arguments that Mixy's move was wolfy because she placed a vote before getting her role seemed to be assuming a lot more. I'm not sure what I'm missing so clarification would help.

Regarding the AM nightkill, the wolves could be familiar with past games and killed her based on that. Or it could be a random kill.

I'm also confused by the votes on kal. Are they pressure? All I saw were just joke posts from kal being drunk, but I'm not sure how these posts are wolfy.

Continuing with the pressure, I'm probably going with this:

lynch capri1722

Would like to see more posts from her.

I agree with pretty much everything lawper said here.

Lynch Pippy

Why sign up for a game when you can only half commit? Seems like it could be a wolf cover-up.

Would still like to hear from Stella and Snowy, lurking wolves?

Hahaha do you know pippy?? She has the worst WW addiction after AM..

 

[nyanko]

Crayola is starting to sound like a mean drunk. Like early-games Crayola. Has some bite. I like it.

i bring out the best in everyone

 

[nyanko]

The truth is I don't think Nyanko actually believes I am a wolf. Yes, there are reasons for voting for villagers, and maybe I've met her criteria. I still find fault with it, and I won't apologize for that. Maybe she's voting me for being a crappy villager, but crappy wolf hunting is also crappy villaging.

you're already setting yourself up for when i flip village with this "there are reasons for voting for villagers" thing too. nice

 

[JustPaws]

*****

*****

 

[WeimMama]

you're already setting yourself up for when i flip village with this "there are reasons for voting for villagers" thing too. nice

this is your second comment (that I've noticed) that is "you'll regret it when i flip village" kinda junk and it really rubs me the wrong way

 

[Crayola227]

you're already setting yourself up for when i flip village with this "there are reasons for voting for villagers" thing too. nice

you already were setting up everyone who was "driving your lynch" - ie anyone criticizing you

Rather than a blanket statement that anyone driving your lynch is a wolf, since villagers can drive/get on those lynches, just call out who you think is wolfy. Because vague statements like yours are used by wolves to get everyone to back off. They don't care that when they die everyone knows it's a lie. And if you are a villager and you pull that statement, you can just needlessly take down some misguided villagers with you.

Basically, it just increases paranoia and discourages discussion.

 

[SnowshoeDog143]

You fishing for power roles, genny?

It was an item; there is a simple explanation for an item that would give me all of that information.

Hmmm.. That's what I was thinking. Leaning towards genny suspicions.

I for one am thankful for your explanation because I am definitely not good with subtlety.

Also, role fishing noob?

Why would I call somebody out for something like that being mildly sketchy if we were actually "in cahoots?"

I mean you would do that, but not getting that feel from you rn

 

[WildZoo]

Why don't you want to widen the field. Doesn't that encourage discussion.

There were already 7 or so people on the tally. Votes that are super clumped are awful to try to analyze, but there tends to be a ton of last minute swing in votes that are very spread out, and they're equally hard to analyze. Plus, few people are going to respond to a single vote. Discussion tends to happen more after 2+ votes.