2009-2010 Mayo Medical School Application Thread

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Hey all,
I haven't posted in awhile so I figured I would get on here. My first two weeks have been amazing. Not only is Mayo great but my classmates are some of the coolest people ever. I can confidently say that Mayo does a great job selecting a diverse and fun group. I will try to post a little more later tonight with some more of my reactions, etc. As alwasys, if you all have any questions feel free to pm me.
 
Hey all,
I haven't posted in awhile so I figured I would get on here. My first two weeks have been amazing. Not only is Mayo great but my classmates are some of the coolest people ever. I can confidently say that Mayo does a great job selecting a diverse and fun group. I will try to post a little more later tonight with some more of my reactions, etc. As alwasys, if you all have any questions feel free to pm me.

I'm sure I'm not alone on here who loves hearing from current Mayo students how much you're enjoying your time at Mayo. I hope between the three of you first years who post on here regularly we will still be able get some updates once your classes really get going.
 
Quick question, if Mayo were to reject you,they'd do it through e-mail right? Or do you just assume you're rejected if they don't invite you to send LORs? Thanks for the help 🙂
 
Quick question, if Mayo were to reject you,they'd do it through e-mail right? Or do you just assume you're rejected if they don't invite you to send LORs? Thanks for the help 🙂

You'll get an email. They are nice enough to not keep you hanging.
 
quick question - has anyone's LOR confirmation taken over a week? just want to make sure i haven't had any amcas software nuances that i missed.
 
quick question - has anyone's LOR confirmation taken over a week? just want to make sure i haven't had any amcas software nuances that i missed.

Been a little over a week since my LOR request. No complete/confirmation email. I guess we're ok for now?
 
Been a little over a week since my LOR request. No complete/confirmation email. I guess we're ok for now?

yeah in that case im not worried about it then. thanks. 👍
 
yeah in that case im not worried about it then. thanks. 👍

It took me 8 days to receive my complete e-mail after I got the LOR request, and I got the complete e-mail at ~2:30pm standard time on the 8th day if that helps. Don't worry, you will definitely get one. As long as you got your LOR request your e-mail shouldn't filter it out. Good luck!
 
It took me 8 days to receive my complete e-mail after I got the LOR request, and I got the complete e-mail at ~2:30pm standard time on the 8th day if that helps. Don't worry, you will definitely get one. As long as you got your LOR request your e-mail shouldn't filter it out. Good luck!

Yeah, if you have been getting the emails upto an including the LOR request, you should receive the confirmation email. I don't think they send out the confirmation until they actually download your letters, so as they get busier it will take them longer to get to you.
 
Me too, it's been 5 days and no LOR confirmation e-mail. I guess this whole process is really testing our patience lol
 
Me too, it's been 5 days and no LOR confirmation e-mail. I guess this whole process is really testing our patience lol

I know it may be hard to wait, but I think you are in a safety zone right now. They have asked for your LORs, but have not downloaded them yet. That means they won't invite/reject you until they have them. Maybe that thought will help relieve any anxiety.
 
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after looking at rankings, for how high this hospital is ranked, im suprised how low they place the medical school
 
Rejected via email at 11:35 PM, no LOR request. That one stung.
 
Rejected via email at 11:35 PM, no LOR request. That one stung.

Sorry to hear that, but you have a strong profile so hopefully you will get to another of your top choices. If you don't mind me asking, when did you get the fee request and get the payment complete email?
 
fee requested on 7/10, "fee received" email on 7/13. I think I'll go burn my copy of Hot Lights, Cold Steel now.
 
Also rejected last night. Same payment dates as Dylan. First rejection. Oh well.
 
Fee Request: 7/7
Fee Paid: 7/7
LOR request: 7/14
LOR received: 7/17

Patiently waiting... would be more than honored to get an interview. I do not have the best stats.
 
Fee Request: 7/7
Fee Paid: 7/7
LOR request: 7/14
LOR received: 7/17

Patiently waiting... would be more than honored to get an interview. I do not have the best stats.

I am pretty sure that beyond the initial screening stats carry much less weight at Mayo than at most school. I think if an interview is given it has much more to do with ECs. Unfortunately, it is harder to know what each school considers really good ECs.
 
I can't read through all the pages of this thread. Can someone PM me the secondary prompt so I can update it on the first post of this thread? thanks!
 
I am pretty sure that beyond the initial screening stats carry much less weight at Mayo than at most school. I think if an interview is given it has much more to do with ECs. Unfortunately, it is harder to know what each school considers really good ECs.

Hey irkoehle, just curious, but what makes you think this about Mayo? Inside info/hunch/etc?
 
Hey irkoehle, just curious, but what makes you think this about Mayo? Inside info/hunch/etc?

irkoehle is totally correct, I have an e-mail from Mayo saying that after the initial grade screen (to receive the fee request) stats mean much less and ECs, personal statement, etc. mean much much more. (I e-mailed them with a question and the admissions lady was super nice and shared 🙂)
 
irkoehle is totally correct, I have an e-mail from Mayo saying that after the initial grade screen (to receive the fee request) stats mean much less and ECs, personal statement, etc. mean much much more. (I e-mailed them with a question and the admissions lady was super nice and shared 🙂)

interesting. so once we have >3.0 and >24, then we're all the same? I'm surprised that there aren't more <30 MCATers that apply here... this would be like a dream come true for them.
 
Hey irkoehle, just curious, but what makes you think this about Mayo? Inside info/hunch/etc?

I would call it semi-inside info (maybe?). Some of which I have gathered from a visit I did there in May, and some of which I have gathered from their website.

irkoehle is totally correct, I have an e-mail from Mayo saying that after the initial grade screen (to receive the fee request) stats mean much less and ECs, personal statement, etc. mean much much more. (I e-mailed them with a question and the admissions lady was super nice and shared 🙂)

Good to see this further confirmed.
 
interesting. so once we have >3.0 and >24, then we're all the same? I'm surprised that there aren't more <30 MCATers that apply here... this would be like a dream come true for them.

The cutoff is a LizzyM of 60 or above, so with a 3.0 GPA you need at least a 30 on the MCAT. If you had a 24, you would need a 3.6 GPA. I don't know that we are all exactly the same after that, but at Mayo a 4.0 40 with average ECs isn't really going to impress them like a 3.4 and a 28 with stellar ECs would. I really think more really qualified lower stats people should apply here, but I think they get scared away by how hard it seems to get in to Mayo.
 
after looking at rankings, for how high this hospital is ranked, im suprised how low they place the medical school

Most of the rankings are based on NIH funding (total and per faculty member). Mayo has a large amount of NIH funding total and doubles that with internal funding (unique among academic medical centers) but has relatively low for the size of its faculty.

What does this mean for a medical student? There are plenty enough labs if you want to do research and also plenty of faculty that focus on clinical practice or education if you want to go in depth on those areas. That might differ from institutions that pride themselves on every faculty member being heavily involved in research and may be weaker in the clinical setting.

Mayo also doesn't focus on MCAT scores which forms another part of the rankings.

The graduating students go into a mix of primary care and other fields, which lends itself to middle of the road primary care model rankings.

In conclusion, USN&WR has a terrible ranking system that probably doesn't distinguish very well among medical schools. There are a number of things that make Mayo special. We have a ton of support from the medical school (financial, academic, and social). We have real access to some of the top clinicians and researchers-I can page or email a world specialist in a certain disease and get a response back. We have a P/F curriculum that allows us tons of time (selectives and morning/afternoon off) to explore the things that interest us. Our faculty is given and is willing to take time out of their day to teach us new things. For example, my mentor will take 2-3 hours at a time to go over a single patient with me and make sure that I understand everything that is going on in the case. Our class is full of great, social people that cooperate rather than compete with each other.

Trust me, this is a special place. Rankings with a terrible methodology only matter to people that aren't there.
 
Also wanted to let you know that the details on the student hosting program are in the process of being worked out. We should have information for the first batch of interviewees worked out pretty soon.

Any questions about Mayo or the process of admissions?
 
Also wanted to let you know that the details on the student hosting program are in the process of being worked out. We should have information for the first batch of interviewees worked out pretty soon.

Any questions about Mayo or the process of admissions?
Thanks so much for your helpful input, PremedIowa. I'm sure I speak for everyone on this thread in letting you know how much I appreciate it!! I do have one question for you...

I'm not sure if you know (or are able to share this information), but with this year's accelerated application cycle, is Mayo still planning to interview the same number of applicants (300ish)? Thanks once again for all your help!
 
interesting. so once we have >3.0 and >24, then we're all the same? I'm surprised that there aren't more <30 MCATers that apply here... this would be like a dream come true for them.

I wouldn't say that we are all the same, she just said that once past the fee request/stat screen the parts of your application other than your stats matter a lot more. Yeah I am surprised that more don't apply, but I guess since Mayo only has 42 spots it makes sense that applicants might think they have a slim chance. I love Mayo so much though, I just applied anyway no matter how slim my chances 😛
 
Most of the rankings are based on NIH funding (total and per faculty member). Mayo has a large amount of NIH funding total and doubles that with internal funding (unique among academic medical centers) but has relatively low for the size of its faculty.

What does this mean for a medical student? There are plenty enough labs if you want to do research and also plenty of faculty that focus on clinical practice or education if you want to go in depth on those areas. That might differ from institutions that pride themselves on every faculty member being heavily involved in research and may be weaker in the clinical setting.

Mayo also doesn't focus on MCAT scores which forms another part of the rankings.

The graduating students go into a mix of primary care and other fields, which lends itself to middle of the road primary care model rankings.

In conclusion, USN&WR has a terrible ranking system that probably doesn't distinguish very well among medical schools. There are a number of things that make Mayo special. We have a ton of support from the medical school (financial, academic, and social). We have real access to some of the top clinicians and researchers-I can page or email a world specialist in a certain disease and get a response back. We have a P/F curriculum that allows us tons of time (selectives and morning/afternoon off) to explore the things that interest us. Our faculty is given and is willing to take time out of their day to teach us new things. For example, my mentor will take 2-3 hours at a time to go over a single patient with me and make sure that I understand everything that is going on in the case. Our class is full of great, social people that cooperate rather than compete with each other.

Trust me, this is a special place. Rankings with a terrible methodology only matter to people that aren't there.

👍 This is an awesome post. I considered replying last night to this post by JasonE, but I didn't feel like bothering with it. He tends to post trollish things on this thread.

I'm glad to see the student hosting program is nearly set. I don't think I will be able to take advantage of it, because I will be in town for two nights with my wife. Is it worth me even asking about the program because of that? I really want to utilize this great resource.
 
Most of the rankings are based on NIH funding (total and per faculty member). Mayo has a large amount of NIH funding total and doubles that with internal funding (unique among academic medical centers) but has relatively low for the size of its faculty.

What does this mean for a medical student? There are plenty enough labs if you want to do research and also plenty of faculty that focus on clinical practice or education if you want to go in depth on those areas. That might differ from institutions that pride themselves on every faculty member being heavily involved in research and may be weaker in the clinical setting.

Mayo also doesn't focus on MCAT scores which forms another part of the rankings.

The graduating students go into a mix of primary care and other fields, which lends itself to middle of the road primary care model rankings.

In conclusion, USN&WR has a terrible ranking system that probably doesn't distinguish very well among medical schools. There are a number of things that make Mayo special. We have a ton of support from the medical school (financial, academic, and social). We have real access to some of the top clinicians and researchers-I can page or email a world specialist in a certain disease and get a response back. We have a P/F curriculum that allows us tons of time (selectives and morning/afternoon off) to explore the things that interest us. Our faculty is given and is willing to take time out of their day to teach us new things. For example, my mentor will take 2-3 hours at a time to go over a single patient with me and make sure that I understand everything that is going on in the case. Our class is full of great, social people that cooperate rather than compete with each other.

Trust me, this is a special place. Rankings with a terrible methodology only matter to people that aren't there.

😍 Your posts make me ridiculously excited to visit Mayo next month!

Honestly speaking, what is living in Rochester like?
 
Actually, I think it is good to have some skepticism in this process. There are a lot of big claims made at every school-every school has above average board scores, for example. It was just something I was thinking about while talking to a physician here. He thought that a lot of those rankings do not reflect current reality and are just rehashes of what people were told years ago about different places.

I like Rochester, but I grew up here and was happy to move back. My classmates that are new to it seem to like it here, but that would be a question best left to them. A lot of what makes a place fun to live is great people, and we have plenty of those 😀

If you are coming with your spouse, it might be more comfortable for you and her to stay at a hotel, but we can see what will be available. When info comes out, send an email to the class reps if you are still interested in student housing. Regardless, we will make sure you can meet some current students.

As far as I know, we are expecting at least as many interviewees as last year. 10 students on Monday and Friday of each week starting in September and going through December.
 
I know it is kind of paranoid, but I have been wondering if any SDNERs have the same interview date as me but I am nervous about posting it on here. Most people on SDN always seem to err on the side of caution, but I don't think it would be a big deal to post it. Whatever.
 
If you are coming with your spouse, it might be more comfortable for you and her to stay at a hotel, but we can see what will be available. When info comes out, send an email to the class reps if you are still interested in student housing. Regardless, we will make sure you can meet some current students.

I was thinking it might be more comfortable for us in a hotel, but that means $$$. I guess I will investigate a little bit when the info comes out. I just really don't want to be a burden on the student host, so I probably won't do it.
 
LOR Request: July 25th

LOR Confirmation: Aug 4th

Reading the posts above makes me want to go to Mayo even more so keeping my fingers crossed for an interview.:xf::xf:
 
👍 This is an awesome post. I considered replying last night to this post by JasonE, but I didn't feel like bothering with it. He tends to post trollish things on this thread.

how was i being "trollish"? i just said i was SURPRISED that it wasn't ranked that high considering the ranking of the hospital. that is a completely legit observation.
 
how was i being "trollish"? i just said i was SURPRISED that it wasn't ranked that high considering the ranking of the hospital. that is a completely legit observation.

It was your choice of words as usual. You said something to the effect of not being able to believe how low the school is ranked, as if to imply that the school is ranked really low. This is trollish in the sense that it seems like it was intended to irritate people on here. Regardles, as premediowa basically said, school rankings are pretty much garabe (or at the very least only somewhat reliable. I personally would rely upon the website and campus visits (two things I think you said only guilible people would fall for) for my information. The best source though is probably current students who are currently in the program (you can meet them on a campus visit). This comment by you wasn't the most trollish thing, but your posts in the past have irritated me. Perhaps I overreacted.
 
There are a number of things that make Mayo special. We have a ton of support from the medical school (financial, academic, and social). We have real access to some of the top clinicians and researchers-I can page or email a world specialist in a certain disease and get a response back. We have a P/F curriculum that allows us tons of time (selectives and morning/afternoon off) to explore the things that interest us. Our faculty is given and is willing to take time out of their day to teach us new things. For example, my mentor will take 2-3 hours at a time to go over a single patient with me and make sure that I understand everything that is going on in the case. Our class is full of great, social people that cooperate rather than compete with each other.


Trust me, this is a special place. Rankings with a terrible methodology only matter to people that aren't there.

i'm glad you like mayo. it's def a great school no doubt, that's why i applied. if you are at the #1 research school, you can do research. if you are at the #75 research school, you can do research. in the end you can only really work in one lab, so who cares how many labs a school has. in that sense, yea the rankings are useless.

but here's the thing. i have real access to top clinicians where I go, and i'm talking at the undergraduate level. many schools have P/F, and i'd be willing to bet most schools aren't that super competitive. at the end of the day, most medical schools are the same. you are getting an MD. this isn't a phd school where the actual school you go to makes a huge difference. I have yet to see one medical really stand out from the rest in a super unique way. the only thing i have seen thats remotely unique is stanford's concentration curriculum, which is pretty cool. other than that, id say most people are going to be happy wherever they go and find many of the same opportunities.
 
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It was your choice of words as usual. You said something to the effect of not being able to believe how low the school is ranked, as if to imply that the school is ranked really low. This is trollish in the sense that it seems like it was intended to irritate people on here. Regardles, as premediowa basically said, school rankings are pretty much garabe (or at the very least only somewhat reliable. I personally would rely upon the website and campus visits (two things I think you said only guilible people would fall for) for my information. The best source though is probably current students who are currently in the program (you can meet them on a campus visit). This comment by you wasn't the most trollish thing, but your posts in the past have irritated me. Perhaps I overreacted.

i wasnt trying to say its really low, its top tier. no one is going to argue that. it wasn't intended to irritate anyone, it was just an observation. i think you read too much into it.

i really do think what websites say and campus visits don't give much information. current students will give the most insight, but then again most ppl who go to a school are going to say they like it. websites are always crafted to praise a school, and tours are IMO useless. i see the campus tours they give at my undergrad school, and after 3 years, i see how much of it is a lie. they only show you the nice stuff and try to sell points that don't really matter. i've always wanted to step in on one of those and tell ppl what a ****hole my undergrad really is (ranked highly but a horrible place). what's really funny is that you can also tell that on the tours at my school, they purposely make the tour guides hot girls. its so obvious its not even funny. its just representative of the type of psychology they use.
 
most medical schools are the same...I have yet to see one medical really stand out from the rest in a super unique way. the only thing i have seen thats remotely unique is stanford's concentration curriculum, which is pretty cool. other than that, id say most people are going to be happy wherever they go and find many of the same opportunities.

I agree that most schools overall are the same, and I think it is for this reason the small things make a big difference when deciding where to go. Are the selectives at Mayo going to be the differnce between me getting an MD and dropping out of medical school? No, but when face with a school that has selectives and one that doesn't, I will take the selectives. I don't know of any other school that offers its students one or two weeks after each block to explore their interests, so that seems pretty darn unique.

I don't know anything about Stanford's concentration curriculum (I'm not applying there), but I know other schools that have scholarly concentrations built into their curriculum, such as Brown. I seem to remember reading that Duke was planning on or did implement a new curriculum in which the topics covered in the first two years at most medical school would be covered in one year, leaving the second year open for research, obtaining a MPH, etc. If I am remembering this correctly, that seems to me to be the most unique curriculum right now. It's really hard to compare curriculums at different schools though, because none of us will go through two medical schools.

i wasnt trying to say its really low, its top tier. no one is going to argue that. it wasn't intended to irritate anyone, it was just an observation. i think you read too much into it.

i really do think what websites say and campus visits don't give much information. current students will give the most insight, but then again most ppl who go to a school are going to say they like it. websites are always crafted to praise a school, and tours are IMO useless. i see the campus tours they give at my undergrad school, and after 3 years, i see how much of it is a lie. they only show you the nice stuff and try to sell points that don't really matter. i've always wanted to step in on one of those and tell ppl what a ****hole my undergrad really is (ranked highly but a horrible place). what's really funny is that you can also tell that on the tours at my school, they purposely make the tour guides hot girls. its so obvious its not even funny. its just representative of the type of psychology they use.

You're right, I read too much into it, sorry about that.

I do agree in a sense with what you are saying about tours and websites of schools, but at the same time I kind of disagree. The schools are obviously going to create a website that highlights their strong selling points and leave out the negative things (that is why no school's website will say, "last year we had the lowest board scores, but don't worry, we're working to fix that!"). That is why when I am looking at a school's website I try to take this into consideration. When I am comparing websites between schools this fact is kind of offset, because you can assume both schools are going to talk themselves up. The students are probably where you can get the most honest information (most honest, not necessarily 100% honest). For instance, if some one was interested in your undergrad and they talked to you about it, you would be upfront with them about the issues there (at least that is what I inferred from your post). I would do the same for my school. With a little digging and prodding at the students/tour guides, I'm sure you can get them to spill some negative information about the schools. Heck, most interviews ask if you have any questions, and I don't think it would be absurd to ask them to tell you one or more weaknesses of their school and how they would like to see it fixed.
 
I seem to remember reading that Duke was planning on or did implement a new curriculum in which the topics covered in the first two years at most medical school would be covered in one year, leaving the second year open for research, obtaining a MPH, etc.

Sorry to nitpick, but Duke developed its current curriculum in the 60s. And the third year is free for research. And Duke doesn't offer an MPH, only an MPP (though in conjunction with UNC an MPH might be possible). Sorry, I know like I sound like an ass but that was bugging me.
 
Sorry to nitpick, but Duke developed its current curriculum in the 60s. And the third year is free for research. And Duke doesn't offer an MPH, only an MPP (though in conjunction with UNC an MPH might be possible). Sorry, I know like I sound like an ass but that was bugging me.

I appreciate the correction. I read about it like 9 months ago I think, so I couldn't remember if it was new or old or whatever. I just remember seeing something about a year off being dedicated to research or some other scholarly endeavor.
 
I know it is kind of paranoid, but I have been wondering if any SDNERs have the same interview date as me but I am nervous about posting it on here. Most people on SDN always seem to err on the side of caution, but I don't think it would be a big deal to post it. Whatever.

I'm wondering too. I'll PM you with mine.

Interesting debate between the two of you! Mayo is a remarkable place that really strives to live out its values. And having such a small class size with that kind of resource available would be incredible. But, having said that, the point stands that there are many high quality schools around the country and an MD degree is what it is (and what you make of it). I don't know that I quite agree that they're all the same. Curriculum aside, it's been my experience that every institution has its own distinct culture that may suit people differently.
 
I'm wondering too. I'll PM you with mine.

Interesting debate between the two of you! Mayo is a remarkable place that really strives to live out its values. And having such a small class size with that kind of resource available would be incredible. But, having said that, the point stands that there are many high quality schools around the country and an MD degree is what it is (and what you make of it). I don't know that I quite agree that they're all the same. Curriculum aside, it's been my experience that every institution has its own distinct culture that may suit people differently.

I like the small class size thing a lot to be honest. I want to know everyone in my class; that would be awesome. At 50 students, I would make sure to know everyone, but at 150-200 I don't think I would even bother.
 
i'm glad you like mayo. it's def a great school no doubt, that's why i applied. if you are at the #1 research school, you can do research. if you are at the #75 research school, you can do research. in the end you can only really work in one lab, so who cares how many labs a school has. in that sense, yea the rankings are useless.

but here's the thing. i have real access to top clinicians where I go, and i'm talking at the undergraduate level. many schools have P/F, and i'd be willing to bet most schools aren't that super competitive. at the end of the day, most medical schools are the same. you are getting an MD. this isn't a phd school where the actual school you go to makes a huge difference. I have yet to see one medical really stand out from the rest in a super unique way. the only thing i have seen thats remotely unique is stanford's concentration curriculum, which is pretty cool. other than that, id say most people are going to be happy wherever they go and find many of the same opportunities.

Stanford's curriculum is really sweet, and so is Mayo's. Not many schools have the block system like we do and very few allow such flexibility (at Mayo w/ selectives and at Stanford w/ concentrations).

Not every school will have world-class faculty that are accessible and legitimately nice people. Money is also a huge factor. There are several schools that offer awesome financial aid, with Mayo being one of them. While there are a handful with all of the above qualities, getting into these schools is quite difficult.

General advice:
Just interview everywhere you can, and go with your gut feelings after you have been accepted to a handful of schools. It is hard to make decisions of any kind before you go and get a "feel" for different schools. I must say, I had very high expectations for Mayo and have not been let down.

To whoever asked, Rochester is OK. It has enough restaurants to keep me busy, though it could use more bars. There are a few go-to bars, but more diversity in our selection would be nice. Mayo clinic employs tons of people, and having a sweet Mayo badge makes you feel like a bada** until you realize everyone else has one too. Minneapolis is close enough to enjoy it as well. And downtown Rochester is kinda cool.

No, it's not New York or Chicago or SF or LA, but it'll do for four years. My goal is to do residency in one of those cities, and so far I'm doing alright with Rochester. It is small, which means getting around is really easy and quick. I live really "far away" which is an eight (yes, eight) minute drive to Mayo. People gasp when I tell them what street I'm on because it is "soooo far".

And JasonE, I'm not picking on your post at all, I just liked the Stanford example.
 
Hey all,
I haven't posted in awhile so I figured I would get on here. My first two weeks have been amazing. Not only is Mayo great but my classmates are some of the coolest people ever. I can confidently say that Mayo does a great job selecting a diverse and fun group. I will try to post a little more later tonight with some more of my reactions, etc. As alwasys, if you all have any questions feel free to pm me.

Great job with that, cast. Too busy watching horrible movies?
 
like i said before, for those of you who really love this school, i hope you get in, even over me. i wish i could have found a school i really like but i haven't really seen any in person other than the one at my undergrad.

i'm interested in the question about asking the person who you interview something they don't like about the particular school. do you think thats a good idea?
 
No, it's not New York or Chicago or SF or LA, but it'll do for four years. My goal is to do residency in one of those cities, and so far I'm doing alright with Rochester. It is small, which means getting around is really easy and quick. I live really "far away" which is an eight (yes, eight) minute drive to Mayo. People gasp when I tell them what street I'm on because it is "soooo far".

And JasonE, I'm not picking on your post at all, I just liked the Stanford example.

can you compare the town to something else that others may be able to relate to? i see your point about the 4 years, but i said the same thing about undergrad and i regret that now. being happy through the process is important too 🙂
 
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