2009-2010 Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences Application Thread

[Soba]

Hazaaaaaah!

Yesterday I emailed Joan Stearman and very politely asked if she would be so kind as to confirm that my secondary and LORs had come in. She emailed her assistant Diane and asked her to do it. This morning I heard from Diane and yes, my application is complete! Now its just hurry and wait!

Back at the military medicine forum you mentioned that you had USPS confirmation of delivery of your secondary application on Thursday July 2, 2009, right?

So, it takes ~9 or less business days for USUHS to input your info once USPS delivers it...

I got my USPS tracking confirmation of my letter and packets on July 9, 2009. However, I was told that as of Tuesday morning July 14, 2009, USUHS has not received my letter or my secondary packet.

Should I be concerned already? Or just relax and wait a couple more days? I think I will give them until next week. Then I will go paranoid...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[xmsr3]

Hopefully I will get in..I don't know if my clinical applies as clinical but I think it does. I also mailed it yesterday..about 2 weeks after recieving it, but..I'll see I guess...3.6 with 31Q..pretty average

Brother let me give you some hope. Your stats are not pretty average. They are slightly above average in every way. Remember that average of 30 MCAT and 3.5 GPA means that plenty of people get in with numbers lower than that.

Also if you are down with doing the army program your chances might improve signifigantly.

 

[sarah9]

I was a navy corpsman (medic) for five years and in that time worked with three USUHS graduates. Each of them said other than wearing a uniform to class you are pretty much like any other med student.

I believe you get a few weeks of vacation over the summer but beyond that you are pretty tied down to performing research or working in a military hospital.

I took a tour last year and they said that if you have interest in research it is easy to find a faculty advisor to get you in the lab.

Yea you'll be fine we had doctors who could barely run the mile and a half in under 14:00 minutes. As long as you are in decent shape it will be a breeze.

If you decide to go for it good luck!

THANKS dru2002 your response was very helpful! I sent in the secondary. Im glad we get the opportunity to do some research. The program seems really neat, yeah you got the ups and downs, but so does every other school and life in general. One more question, in the active duty, do you get moved around to different places (which isnt necessarily a bad thing), and how many top choices can i pick to be sent to?
I hope they tell me Im complete soon, i sent the application from Nice, France, which makes me worried : /

 

[Soba]

THANKS dru2002 your response was very helpful! I sent in the secondary. Im glad we get the opportunity to do some research. The program seems really neat, yeah you got the ups and downs, but so does every other school and life in general. One more question, in the active duty, do you get moved around to different places (which isnt necessarily a bad thing), and how many top choices can i pick to be sent to?
I hope they tell me Im complete soon, i sent the application from Nice, France, which makes me worried : /

You can provide top 3 choices, but it ultimately comes down to the need of the armed services. Also, if you happen to know another physician of the same service that wants to switch places with you, that also works, too.

Yeah, I hope all our applications get properly recorded.

...should I e-mail USUHS again on Friday? Waiting is hard indeed.

 

[sarah9]

You can provide top 3 choices, but it ultimately comes down to the need of the armed services. Also, if you happen to know another physician of the same service that wants to switch places with you, that also works, too.

Yeah, I hope all our applications get properly recorded.

...should I e-mail USUHS again on Friday? Waiting is hard indeed.

well you could its not one day after another. I emailed them last night, so hope to get a reply today. If you're worried by all means, I dont think they will not accept you for being cautious and worried. its not bad Its a stressful time, and they understand that.

 

[xmsr3]

well you could its not one day after another. I emailed them last night, so hope to get a reply today. If you're worried by all means, I dont think they will not accept you for being cautious and worried. its not bad Its a stressful time, and they understand that.

I certainly hope so, I contact them as well to check on the status and afterwards spent all day worrying if it hurt my application. I guess I have way to much time on my hands now that secondaries have slowed to a trickle

 

[dru2002]

well you could its not one day after another. I emailed them last night, so hope to get a reply today. If you're worried by all means, I dont think they will not accept you for being cautious and worried. its not bad Its a stressful time, and they understand that.

It was almost a week before I got a reply to my email checking if they received my LOR. I would just give it some time. BTW I'm jealous you are spending your summer in France.

 

[xmsr3]

Here's a really awsome activity for those that like to know their chances at USUHS.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=527971

Open the spread sheet and enter your stats into the 6 purple boxes at the top. It will give you your LizzyM score, (tells you how competative you are at a med school based on GPA and MCAT).

Take your Lizzy M score -66 (the value of USUHS average matriculant) and divide by the standard deviation of 2.91.

The answer is your Z score.

http://www.stat.lsu.edu/exstweb/statlab/Tables/TABLES98-Z.html

Look up your Z score on this website and it will tell you how competative your combined GPA, MCAT is at USUHS,(in terms of percentile).

Divide 1 by the decimal in the z table. Then divide 1950,(number that applied to USUHS last year) by that number and round up to the nearest whole number.

This is your statistical ranking, based purely on stats, for all people who applied last year. There were 171 spots available.

Is your ranking within the top 171?

Here's an example. Lets say my my GPA is 3.6 and I recieved a 33 MCAT. My lizzyM score is (3.6*10+33)=69.

69-66=3, 3/2.91= 1.03 standard deviations above the mean for those that got into USUHS.

Looking up the Z table by going down to 1.0 and over 4 columns to .03 I see .1515, meaning that based on MCAT and GPA I am in the top 15.15% of applicants to USUHS.

1/.1515= 6.6 meaning of every 6.6 people applying I would be the #1 in terms of GPA and MCAT.

1950/6.6= 295th place in terms of MCAT and GPA. So I guess then I should be worried about my chances if those where my stats, if stats were all that were looked at.

For those that don't feel like doing the math, here's the cutoff to know whether or not you are statistically likely to get into USUHS based on GPA and MCAT.

1950 applicants/171 seats means you need to be the best out of a group of 11.4 applicants.

This means you need to be in the top 8.7% of applicants.

This requires being at least 1.36 standard deviations above the mean.

Thus to statistically get into USUHS based purely on MCAT and GPA, your LizzyM score must be 70 or higher.

Of course the admissions committee will look at things like your PS, LORs and Secondary essay and ECs, so the method described above is just an interesting excercise to give you an idea what your statistical Stat Rank is amoung USUHS applicants.

Then divide your rank, (if its in the top 171) by 171 and multiply by 100.

That is your statistical probability for being rejected from USUHS, if only GPA and MCAT where looked at.

So your chance at acceptance is 100- that number. Aren't statistics fun

As stated this isn't a gurantee but a fun excercise we can do while we wait to here about interviews.

If anyone bothers to go do the statistical analysis of their own stats would you mind posting your rank, (no need to tell us your stats if like to keep it anonymous).

Just for fun I will post my own analysis.

Cumulative GPA: 3.97
Science GPA: 3.96
MCAT PS: 10
VR: 13
Bio: 11
State: MN

LizzyM score: 74.7

74.7-66= 2.99 Z score

That puts me in the the top .14% of applicants based on stats.

1/.0014= 714.29

1950/714.29= 2.73

So statistically speaking, if I had been applying last year I would have been the applicant with the 3rd best stats.

(3/171)*100= 1.8, or a 1.8% chance of being rejected or 98.2% probability of acceptance, if stats were all they looked at which isn't the case but it sure is nice to know that my #1 choice, dream school is a saftey school.

Man, I have way to much time on my hands

 

[sarah9]

It was almost a week before I got a reply to my email checking if they received my LOR. I would just give it some time. BTW I'm jealous you are spending your summer in France.

hahaha....yeah its pretty neat. It's my first trip to Europe and its been amazing, was in Nice, went to Brugge, Belgium for a weekend to visit a friend, and now in Paris. Next week is Italy...lol

well if we're classmates next year, I will show you extremely cool pictures of fireworks at the eiffel tower... LOL!

 

[sarah9]

Here's a really awsome activity for those that like to know their chances at USUHS.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=527971

Open the spread sheet and enter your stats into the 6 purple boxes at the top. It will give you your LizzyM score, (tells you how competative you are at a med school based on GPA and MCAT).

Take your Lizzy M score -66 (the value of USUHS average matriculant) and divide by the standard deviation of 2.91.

The answer is your Z score.

http://www.stat.lsu.edu/exstweb/statlab/Tables/TABLES98-Z.html

Look up your Z score on this website and it will tell you how competative your combined GPA, MCAT is at USUHS,(in terms of percentile).

Divide 1 by the decimal in the z table. Then divide 1950,(number that applied to USUHS last year) by that number and round up to the nearest whole number.

This is your statistical ranking, based purely on stats, for all people who applied last year. There were 171 spots available.

Is your ranking within the top 171?

Here's an example. Lets say my my GPA is 3.6 and I recieved a 33 MCAT. My lizzyM score is (3.6*10+33)=69.

69-66=3, 3/2.91= 1.03 standard deviations above the mean for those that got into USUHS.

Looking up the Z table by going down to 1.0 and over 4 columns to .03 I see .1515, meaning that based on MCAT and GPA I am in the top 15.15% of applicants to USUHS.

1/.1515= 6.6 meaning of every 6.6 people applying I would be the #1 in terms of GPA and MCAT.

1950/6.6= 295th place in terms of MCAT and GPA. So I guess then I should be worried about my chances if those where my stats, if stats were all that were looked at.

For those that don't feel like doing the math, here's the cutoff to know whether or not you are statistically likely to get into USUHS based on GPA and MCAT.

1950 applicants/171 seats means you need to be the best out of a group of 11.4 applicants.

This means you need to be in the top 8.7% of applicants.

This requires being at least 1.36 standard deviations above the mean.

Thus to statistically get into USUHS based purely on MCAT and GPA, your LizzyM score must be 70 or higher.

Of course the admissions committee will look at things like your PS, LORs and Secondary essay and ECs, so the method described above is just an interesting excercise to give you an idea what your statistical Stat Rank is amoung USUHS applicants.

Then divide your rank, (if its in the top 171) by 171 and multiply by 100.

That is your statistical probability for being rejected from USUHS, if only GPA and MCAT where looked at.

So your chance at acceptance is 100- that number. Aren't statistics fun

As stated this isn't a gurantee but a fun excercise we can do while we wait to here about interviews.

If anyone bothers to go do the statistical analysis of their own stats would you mind posting your rank, (no need to tell us your stats if like to keep it anonymous).

Just for fun I will post my own analysis.

Cumulative GPA: 3.97
Science GPA: 3.96
MCAT PS: 10
VR: 13
Bio: 11
State: MN

LizzyM score: 74.7

74.7-66= 2.99 Z score

That puts me in the the top .14% of applicants based on stats.

1/.0014= 714.29

1950/714.29= 2.73

So statistically speaking, if I had been applying last year I would have been the applicant with the 3rd best stats.

(3/171)*100= 1.8, or a 1.8% chance of being rejected or 98.2% probability of acceptance, if stats were all they looked at which isn't the case but it sure is nice to know that my #1 choice, dream school is a saftey school.

Man, I have way to much time on my hands

way too much time!!! your worrying too much! RELAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[scooter02]

well if we're classmates next year, I will show you extremely cool pictures of fireworks at the eiffel tower... LOL!

Were you there for Bastille day? My dad happened to be in Paris on business once for that and he told me the fireworks were AMAZING!!

 

[scooter02]

Cumulative GPA: 3.97
Science GPA: 3.96
MCAT PS: 10
VR: 13
Bio: 11
State: MN

LizzyM score: 74.7

74.7-66= 2.99 Z score

That puts me in the the top .14% of applicants based on stats.

When you set a standard like that I am way too scared to put my own score!!

Honestly though, with stats like that (and I know you do a lot of ER volunteering) I think as long as you tone down the intensity a notch before interviews, you will do great and get the navy medicine career you dream of. I know it's easier said than done but don't stress yourself out so much... I think it's great that you have a marathon to focus on to take your mind off things.

 

[xmsr3]

Fellow USUHS hopefuls I sincerely apologize for my neurotic ravings. I failed to take into account how my posts would affect others, especially all those with lower stats than me.

I know you must all hate me, just as I hate people in the "what are my chances" forum who write posts like, "41R, 3.92, What do I do?" The answer is simple:

Go to ****ing Hopkins and leave the rest of us alone to neurotically obsess over whether or not we have a chance to get in anywhere!

From now on I swear to play it cool and simply support my fellow USUHS hopefuls. All of us who apply to USUHS are, in a very special way, worthy of acceptance and SDN members are typically a cut above most premeds.

We need to support each other and form strong friendships now, because I am sure that everyone who has posted on this thread will get in and we'll all be colleagues and comrades in a year

So sorry again and good luck to all USUHS applicants, although I'm sure we won't need it

 

[delicatefew24]

Stats are pretty important, but I believe they look at your essays, teacher recommendations, and especially your interview to see if you are a normal person who would make a good doc.

Interesting analysis though, I hope you are less worried now!

Also don't forget some of the "171 seats" are already taken by people already in the military who have been basically guaranteed a spot (for example USNA has 20 slots for people to go USUHS/HPSP. no idea about the other services)

 

[xmsr3]

Delicate few, what is USNA and are you sure about USUHS/HPSP spots?

HPSP is a seperate scholarship program where a person goes to a civilian med school, all costs are paid by the military plus a living stipend, and then the payback time is 4 years plus a military residency.

USUHS is where you get free education in a military school + are active duty and recieve all benefits including about $50k in pay which covers living expenses.

Payback is 7 years +military residency.

USUHS and HPSP are two different and mutually exclusive programs with the main benefit of a free education overlapping.

It seems highly unlikely that they would offer HPSP at USUHS because what would be the point?

Here's what we know from USUHS web site.

665 current students, 248 army, 202 navy, 200 AF and 15 PHS.

Assuming that these ratios hold of the 171 spots the break down will be:

65 army spots, 52 navy, 51 AF, 4 PHS

As for USUHS reserving spots for current military according to their website and secondary previous military experience has no bearing on acceptance.

Now obviously having previous experience will help in an interview and maybe the secondary essay, but I am pretty sure there are no reserved spots for military personel.

Oh, and if there are, then all of our chances at getting in just went down signifigantly and how exactly is that supposed to calm down anyone?

P.S

My PS is the best thing I have ever written, I spent 3 months on it and had 2 rounds of professional editors go through making it stronger.

My USUHS secondary essay is also fantastic and really shows my dedication to a lifetime of service to my country and humanity, while simultaenously shows that I know what the downsides of mil med are. It was also professionaly edited.

Of my LORs, I have 5

1 from my Physiology professor who I was good friends with and who, after discussing my motivations for medicine told me, "I have no doubt you should go into medicine". Oh and I was 1st in her class out of 250 or so people.

2 from my econ professor and mentor, (mentioned in my personal statement as one of the biggest influences of my life) When I went to ask him to write the letter and give him the necessary info, I told him how much he had affected my life and the most moving, life altering thing that ever happened to me, (the story from my PS which I openly wept while writing I was so moved) and wept again when I recounted it and told him how much his mentorship meant to me.

He then proceeded to weep and tell me that every professor dreams of reaching students as he had reached me. He wrote the letter that night and mailed it the next day. I have no doubt that his LOR will speak volumes about my dedication to serving others and will be a big hit at USUHS.

3. O-chem lab professor who took into account the glowing rec from my TA, (I was top of my lab section) got an A on the final which was a full lab run through and was one of the top students in her class overall. She had also done this before many times so I am confident she knows how to write a strong letter.

4. Volunteer Organizer at Er where I volunteer and shadow as my clinical letter, written with input from nurse and tech I work with, the tech openyl told me that I am the best volunteer they have. She probably also does this a lot so I am hoping she knows what she is doing.

5. Physics 2 professor, not sure if he has written med school LORs before, but I am pretty sure any letter mentions unwavering dedication to excellence, (in his office hours every week) and that I was one of the top in his class, (they asked me to be a TA next semester).

 

[teacherman84]

USNA=US Naval Academy
The military academies take a certain number of their premed students, allegedly 20 for USNA, and they get to go to med school, either at USUHS or another school with HPSP. Maybe not all 20 of them get to go to USUHS but they all get in one of the programs...I doubt the Navy would let them go through med school without one of these.

As for USUHS not giving weight to prior experience, that may be their formal statement on the matter but I have worked with and met a lot of USU grads and almost all of them have said AT LEAST 50% of their class were either prior service, academy students, or ROTC.

As a member of NROTC I am pretty sure delicatfew is aware of what USUHS and HPSP are...calm down

Between this and your many other posts we all can see you are a strong applicant...we get it...you're brilliant and everyone loves you

What happened to this:
Fellow USUHS hopefuls I sincerely apologize for my neurotic ravings. I failed to take into account how my posts would affect others, especially all those with lower stats than me.

I know you must all hate me, just as I hate people in the "what are my chances" forum who write posts like, "41R, 3.92, What do I do?" The answer is simple:

Go to ****ing Hopkins and leave the rest of us alone to neurotically obsess over whether or not we have a chance to get in anywhere!

From now on I swear to play it cool and simply support my fellow USUHS hopefuls. All of us who apply to USUHS are, in a very special way, worthy of acceptance and SDN members are typically a cut above most premeds.

We need to support each other and form strong friendships now, because I am sure that everyone who has posted on this thread will get in and we'll all be colleagues and comrades in a year

So sorry again and good luck to all USUHS applicants, although I'm sure we won't need it

 

[sarah9]

Were you there for Bastille day? My dad happened to be in Paris on business once for that and he told me the fireworks were AMAZING!!

THEY WERE INCREDIBLE! they were the best ever this year, because it was 120 years of the eiffel tower. so it was a huge celebration. there were so many people in the streets you couldnt move!!! and it wasnt just french people, there were people from all over gathered around the eiffel tower, it was an experience!!!! I took sooo many pictures its like a flip book

 

[xmsr3]

What happened to this:
Fellow USUHS hopefuls I sincerely apologize for my neurotic ravings. I failed to take into account how my posts would affect others, especially all those with lower stats than me.

I know you must all hate me, just as I hate people in the "what are my chances" forum who write posts like, "41R, 3.92, What do I do?" The answer is simple:

Go to ****ing Hopkins and leave the rest of us alone to neurotically obsess over whether or not we have a chance to get in anywhere

From now on I swear to play it cool and simply support my fellow USUHS hopefuls. All of us who apply to USUHS are, in a very special way, worthy of acceptance and SDN members are typically a cut above most premeds.

We need to support each other and form strong friendships now, because I am sure that everyone who has posted on this thread will get in and we'll all be colleagues and comrades in a year

So sorry again and good luck to all USUHS applicants, although I'm sure we won't need it

Sorry about that but in my defense you did just drop a pretty big bombshell by cutting my odds of getting in by half.

 

[dru2002]

As for USUHS reserving spots for current military according to their website and secondary previous military experience has no bearing on acceptance.

Now obviously having previous experience will help in an interview and maybe the secondary essay, but I am pretty sure there are no reserved spots for military personel.

Seems a little odd to me if it has no bearing that 1 1/2 pages of the 2 page application would be dedicated to your military background. Military experience will not trump great stats but if they are even close the one with military experience wins.

As for the PS goes while it is great that you were moved and it brought you and others to tears it might be advisable not to mention this so openly. While emotions on the whole aren't bad you are striving to enter the navy which I can assure you is very much a "warrior culture". If you happen to be stationed with a Marine infantry battalion and you start having an excess of emotions you will be ostricized. Marines are trained warriors and abhor anything they view as weakness. Don't giving them anything to abhor.

 

[harrothere]

I always thought that the "no reserved spots for military personnel" was a *wink wink* kind of line. Just like the whole "Applicants will not be discriminated upon due to gender, race, etc." shtick at other schools. These things tend to be taken care of behind a curtain. There is nothing we can do about it

 

[delicatefew24]

Thank you teacherman and dru sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills in here.

I have a feeling everyone in this thread has a good chance because we are motivated enough to even be here! Does anyone know when interview offers start? August? Sept? My LORs aren't even in but I'm getting excited!

 

[teacherman84]

Sorry about that but in my defense you did just drop a pretty big bombshell by cutting my odds of getting in by half.

Well stop compensating by flaunting your stats, powerful writing ability, and all around arrogance...its annoying.

I especially enjoyed this bit from your thread on being rejected...

But you know, "failure is not an option, so don't fail" has worked for me very well. It may be a cliche but I truely have never failed at anything imporant.

I am great at school and test taking. I have a genuine love of science and technology and an intuitive understanding of biological systems.

The idea that every school's adcoms will decide that now is the time to teach me a life lesson and make me fail at the most important thing I have ever attempted is not something I will even consider.

Not only would it be demonically evil, but also illogical. My stats are in the top 6% of national applicants. Turning down highly qualified candidates is not something medical schools can do, especially when we are facing a serious doctor shortage in the coming years.

Rather than milimed, maybe you should consider being a fighter pilot...

 

[harrothere]

Originally Posted by xmsr3
But you know, "failure is not an option, so don't fail" has worked for me very well. It may be a cliche but I truely have never failed at anything imporant.

LOL people with this mentality exist? Enough of them to make that thought a cliche?

 

[scooter02]

Seems a little odd to me if it has no bearing that 1 1/2 pages of the 2 page application would be dedicated to your military background.

Yeah, pretty much the only thing I had to put on that application addendum was my name and SAT scores!! Since I have no military background... it was SO blank!!

 

[dru2002]

hahaha....yeah its pretty neat. It's my first trip to Europe and its been amazing, was in Nice, went to Brugge, Belgium for a weekend to visit a friend, and now in Paris. Next week is Italy...lol

well if we're classmates next year, I will show you extremely cool pictures of fireworks at the eiffel tower... LOL!

You just made me more jealous. Can't wait to see the photos.

 

[xmsr3]

Well I know for a fact that last year all interviews were on Thursdays, begining Sep 18.

Though I haven't contacted USUHS about when invites go out, I was told by MCW that once your secondary is complete its 4-6 weeks.

I have also read somewhere on SDN the date of early august for first invites, though I can't recall where.

Obviously it depends on when your application is complete. The good news is that with about 2000 applicants compared to 10k+ at some other schools we should be getting the first interview invites soon.

By the way, has anyone gotten a rejection letter from USUHS?

I haven't read about one, but perhaps a USUHS applicant was rejected and just didn't feel like posting about it. I believe that rejections start a few weeks earlier than interviews, at least that is how some other schools do it.

 

[xmsr3]

Well stop compensating by flaunting your stats, powerful writing ability, and all around arrogance...its annoying.

I especially enjoyed this bit from your thread on being rejected...

Rather than milimed, maybe you should consider being a fighter pilot...​

Don't I know it! Today I got a call from Def Sec Robert Gates himself! He told me that he has gotten a lot of calls from both the USUHS admissions office and SDN about my obsessive desire to join the navy He said that if I sit down, chill out and shut the **** up about my stats, I have his assurance to at least get an interview

I replied the only appropriate manner I could think of, YES SIR!

Of course, now that I think about it, I should have asked when the first interview invites go out, maybe I should call him back and ask

Oh, wait, I believe he did say if I disobeyed that direct order I would be shot, but then again, he didn't say I'd be killed, so maybe knowing then interview invites go out would be worth a bullet

I'm sure all of you would appreciate that little bit of inside info​

 

[sarah9]

Don't I know it! Today I got a call from Def Sec Robert Gates himself! He told me that he has gotten a lot of calls from both the USUHS admissions office and SDN about my obsessive desire to join the navy He said that if I sit down, chill out and shut the **** up about my stats, I have his assurance to at least get an interview

I replied the only appropriate manner I could think of, YES SIR!

Of course, now that I think about it, I should have asked when the first interview invites go out, maybe I should call him back and ask

Oh, wait, I believe he did say if I disobeyed that direct order I would be shot, but then again, he didn't say I'd be killed, so maybe knowing then interview invites go out would be worth a bullet

I'm sure all of you would appreciate that little bit of inside info

stop being so arrogant. good for you, however, the fact is most of us dont have that luxury of getting said hey im going to give you an interview because you are passionate and enthusiastic and have good scores. unless you can guarantee that we all get the chance to interview, pipe it down. I dont care how great you are, or who calls you, or what scores you have. to be honest nothing is a guarantee in life. here's another big bombshell for you, i know many people who had just as high of scores get rejected last year, and people with lower scores get accepted to top programs. its luck of the draw that somebody reads the app and your attitude during the interview.

being pompous about how wonderful u write (which to be honest is an opinion) and who calls you, doesnt matter. its not helping anyone on this thread. so please relax! if you get into medical school good for you, and if not its not the end of the world, trust me I know. CHILL OUT!!! i feel like dumping a cooler of ice and water on you, so you wake up and realize that you arent being very considerate of people who are reapplicants and people with lower scores, and annoying to those who have higher scores and are being humble about it.

 

[sarah9]

does anyone have a good breakdown of the exact difference between being an army, navy or air force doctor?

-i was told if you want to do research that army is the way to go because its larger and has more funding. is this true?? also, that the life is harder, which im not sure what that means exactly???
-navy i know u can spend up to many months on a ship, which might not be bad, but im not sure about that. i go out on boats a lot, i dont know how i would feel about being out in the ocean for so long. are you able to talk to ur family from there? what do u exactly do for so long out at sea, wont u be treating sea sickness and such, what kind of cases are generally seen in a healthy crew of naval officers aboard a ship?
-air force, i hear the life is better (what do they mean by that), has less people, and your more prone to do a gmo tour as a flight surgeon...

im leaning more towards army because of the opportunity to do research, but im not sure if that is a good enough reason. please help

a website or references would be greatly appreciated Thank you!

 

[teacherman84]

Search the military medicine thread and read...the differences between the services has been discussed many times.
Keep in mind though that depending on your specialty and other variables your experience in any branch could vary drastically. I know an AF Colonel who in his 23 years of primary care so far has been deployed overseas twice and I know a doc in the same field who has been three times with a lot less time in service.

 

[xmsr3]

Sarah9, I sincerely apologize for offending you. In my defense my last post was a joke, thus the smiley face and wink emoticons. The Secretary of Defense of the United States, 2nd in the military chain of command behind only the President, did not, in fact call me and order to me shut up about my stats, nor did he threaten to have me shot if I disobeyed that order. This was a joke meant to be self deprecating and offered as an apology to all those I have pissed off with my neuroticism.

As to your questions, I would be happy to help as I have been obsessivley researching the different branches of the service.

Air Force:

Pros:

-The most comfortable bases, (the joke in the military is that they design the golf course first and build the rest of the base around it).

-Shortest deployments, about 3-4 months long, then its back to your home base.

Cons:

-Smallest Service, which means the smallest # of specialty residencies and research slots. If you don't match into a residency you do a GMO tour as a flight surgeon. After a GMO tour, 2 years, your odds of matching in the second time go up dramatically.

-Worst Base locations, I have heard that many FPs and IMs, (who matched in the first round of residencies) are miserable because they stationed in wasteland locations such as Idaho, and Minot, North Dakota. Apparently the bases are built far from cities and towns to minimize damage should a plane crash, but this means that you are pretty much stuck on base with only whatever entertainment they have.

Navy:

Pros: Nicest base locations, almost all are coastal including fabulous areas such as San Diego, Pearl Harbor and some in Florida, (also guam is nice for an overseas deployment).

-Lots of specialties, this is the second largest branch and has almost as many residencies as Army, (some specialties such as Rads, it exactly the same) This probably refers also to research spots, although I am sure with ASAAMRID, army has more.

Neutral: 6-7 month deployments, potentially aboard a ship. This may be an adventure for some, hell for others, depends on your mindset. Sea sickness isn't a real problem because of the size of the ships, in case you do get sick they have drugs for that.

Cons: 2/3 of GME1s do GMO tour rather than go straight through to resdiency, unless you are doing FP or IM, which it sounds like you are not. As long as you don't mind doing a GMO you should eventually get into the specialty you want, including research.

Army:

Pros: Biggest branch so the most specialties, oppertunities for research. This is an important consideration for most, since most med students change their minds about what residency they want to pursue during 3,4th years.

USAAMRID- specifically a great reseach oppertunity, don't know if other braches have their own version of this.

Cons: Longest deployments, 12-14 months, bases are located in places such as Texas, Ohio and a lot of other inter continental sites. Its not as bad as AF, (as I understand it) because they are built close to towns and cities, so you can go off base and enjoy civilian recreational facilities such as night clubs, movie theaters, ect. Also keep in mind that Army has the most bases, so despite some crappy ones, they also have nice ones in California and even Hawaii, (FP residency there).

BUT keep in mind that Army bases are the oldest and not as plush as AF.


Conclusion: IN AF you are most likely to face comfortable bases, though many are located in isolated wastelands and with less oppertunity for choosing a non primary care specialty, or research. You will be deployed for less time but may spend your time wishing you were practicing in another specialty.

In Navy their are plenty of oppertunities for specializing, as long as you are willing to do a GMO tour, but the base locations are fantastic. You may be deployed on a ship, which may or maynot be your cup of tea but you can communicate with family and friends on a daily basis, even aboard ship.

The army has the oldest bases and you may find their location undesirable and deployments are long, but if you have the right mindset, (that you will be deployed in any branch and take it as an oppertunity for adventure and personal growth) you will be rewarded with the greatest chance to do what you love, (specialty) and have the best chance at doing research, such as at the US Army Advanced Research into Infectious Disease Research Base, (USAAMRID).

From what you described about yourself, (that doing research is the most important thing for you) I would agree that you probably want to choose the Army route.

Here is the website with great data regarding the number of specialties in each of the branches.
http://www.militarygme.org/4.html

Hope this helps and sorry again about the misunderstanding regarding my joke. I honestly meant no offense and I apologize for being so inconsiderate to reapplicants, those with lower scores and non traditional path students.

As I have said to teacherman84, I realize that stats can't tell you about quality of a doctor and I am sure you are a highly qualified and wonderful person who will contribute much to the medical profession, especially if you plan to pursue research.

I have always been in awe of those with the academic and mental acumen to do medical research, as I haven't got the chops for it and so i defer to you, my intellectual superior and beg your forgiveness for the insult you recieved.

As I have sworn on the military medical USUHS thread, I shall not speak of my stats again and as I have promised on this thread, (and as ordered by Robert Gates I shall calm down and help my fellow USUHS hopefuls by shareing any and all knowledge I have learned regarding USUHS and mil med and by supporting the efforts of all who apply and post on these forums.

Sorry again and thank you for your patience and understanding. Please have a wonderful week, a terrific summer and may you and yours know only health, joy and prosperity in the days to come.

Sincerely,
XMSR3

 

[ehandber]

Thanks for all the info. If anyone is interested, you should definitely check out all the youtube videos you can find (I searched "USUHS" and "Uniformed Services University"). They are interesting, but there are not very many.

I would also suggest watching that NOVA movie called Doctors' Diaries. It was very grounding to see something like that.

http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1114402491


---As a sidenote---

You know, I avoided these boards for a very long time (my entire undergrad) for the purpose of avoiding these fights.

All of you have stats that will get you into a medical school, or you don't. There is no reason to get upset regardless of other people's stats, because you are going to try. Some of us are (usually self proclaimed) neurotic, and some of us are just trying to get in.

In the end, you're going to try now. If it doesn't work, you're gonna try again later. If we're not too anxious, and we just take the difficulties as they come, we will be fine.

 

[NavPhys]

delicatefew the fact that you say, "realize that its not as idealistic as you think" is exactly what I mean by "say what you will about mil med".

That is not just a critique of the military but any organization.

Ask any health insurance company what there mission is. They will spout of some company line about, "provideing all our customers with excellent care at a fair value".

In reality they hire people who do nothing but comb through every form you filled out over the years the moment you get sick and try to find a reason to deny you coverage.

Same with the military. They say they care about soldiers but in the end accomplishing the mission comes first.

BUT despite the imperfect idealism and red tape, it is true that the security offered by the military, the guaranteed employment, housing, medical care, education and retirement pension is true.

As this most recent economic crisis shows, that kind of security is actually worth a lot more than we think.

My own family is currently realing from my father losing his job and my mother terrified that she will lose hers.

They are heavily indebted and my dad is having trouble sleeping at night, trying to juggle credit cards to pay off other cards, all of which he used just to pay the bills.

You know what is interesting?

The happiest nation on earth since 2002, when they started doing regular surveys has been Denmark.

You know the reason most Danes say they are happy?

Security, they feel secure that their basic necessities of life are safe and so they can focus on personal enjoyment and growth.

In America you are never safe. A single medical emergency can bankrupt even a wealthy family and a job loss can sink anyone living paycheck to paycheck.

So for someone like me, who has grown up knowing both boom times and bust, who sees the kind of torment a parent goes through when he wonders if he will have to take out a mortgage on the house just to pay the bills, economic security is the cornerstone of a happy life.

My family will never know the kind of fear that tortures my father to sleep every night.

I am currently single and will remain so until I am secure in the fact that I have my financial ducks in a row.

No debt, lots of savings and never living a day in fear of what may come.

When my kids are born I will start putting away a few hundred dollars each month into small cap stocks for them, so when they get to college they will be able to go anywhere without worry.

Anyway I've started to ramble and I apologize for that, its midnight where I am and I am exhausted.

I'll just close with this thought, taught to me by my mentor Harland Smith.

A civilization worth the name is a society in which all people are guaranteed the basic necessities of life thus ensuring equality of oppertunity and the ability to attempt to maximize their potential. Thus is aggregate happiness maximized and social harmony and prosperity ensured.

In my book what the military offers is the closest thing to that ideal society that can be found in the US.

Just a note: You will learn when you go to your officer training, that it isn't 100% secure. For example, in the Navy there is a promotional quota system in place. You may or may not get promoted based upon sex or race.

As a member of the Medical Corps, you won't have to worry about making rank, and weather or not you have a job, but the officers in other corps or the Line community DO have to worry about thier job. If someone gets passed over for promotion from O-3 to O-4, then their career is pretty much gone along with pensions and any other benefit -- this potentially affects 40%-50% of these officers. This isn't as Utopian as you might think. Don't get me wrong... I love the military, but you need to know that it isn't secure for everyone.

You should also be aware, that even if you join the Air Force or Navy, you will probably get deployed to Kuwait or Afghanistan, these are a thing called IA's (the Army will own you for a while). And no, it doesn't matter what speciality you are. We had a Rad Onc doc get deployed as a GP in Afghanistan.

 

[RLTW]

I have been reading through this thread and I find that most of the comments revolve around XMSR3 being the best applicant in the world (just ask him, he'll tell you) and people being concerned as to which branch is the easiest. It seems that most of you are losing sight of the most important aspect of medicine...the patients. If you are more concerned with which branch will allow you to fulfill your obligation with the least amount of hardship instead of which patient populace is most in need of care then perhaps you should stick with a civilian school. It bothers me to see so many people wanting to join the ranks of military physicians while being chiefly concerned about what they will receive out of the deal. What do you offer? I am not a total altruist but what will you do for military service members and their families? As an individual currently serving in the Army I can tell you that the Army has the predominance of the slots because they have the greatest need. They are the largest branch with the largest number of boots on the ground. After that it becomes a simple logic drill; the closer one gets to the front line the greater the need for solid medical providers.
The military needs all the help it can get but too often that help comes in the form of individuals who are looking to dodge debt while suffering least amount of discomfort. As to XMRS3's utopian view...I would love to be a fly on the wall when the reality of military medicine finally dawns on him.

 

[RLTW]

And one more thing. You all should be desperate to deploy. Who do you think needs you more? Someone with the sniffles in the states or on a boat in the middle of the ocean or someone who has been recently exploded or shot? Going to USUHS means joining the military, not just watching from the sidelines.

 

[dru2002]

And one more thing. You all should be desperate to deploy. Who do you think needs you more? Someone with the sniffles in the states or on a boat in the middle of the ocean or someone who has been recently exploded or shot? Going to USUHS means joining the military, not just watching from the sidelines.

Couldn't agree more. We could argue the whole frontline thing though (don't forget that navy docs get play with the marines) . I love the who is better the army or marines argument.

 

[MN premed]

And one more thing. You all should be desperate to deploy. Who do you think needs you more? Someone with the sniffles in the states or on a boat in the middle of the ocean or someone who has been recently exploded or shot? Going to USUHS means joining the military, not just watching from the sidelines.

It sounds like you are applying here, and if you are, I just want to say I'm really glad that there are people who are truly committed to helping our military. I really envy and respect anyone who has the courage and drive to serve our country. Being the girlfriend of a Marine, it's nice to know there are doctors/future doctors out there that are so committed to taking care of them

I just want to say THANK YOU to all of them!

 

[MN premed]

Couldn't agree more. We could argue the whole frontline thing though (don't forget that navy docs get play with the marines) . I love the who is better the army or marines argument.

Come on now, everyone knows which is better.

 

[harrothere]

It bothers me to see so many people wanting to join the ranks of military physicians while being chiefly concerned about what they will receive out of the deal. What do you offer? I am not a total altruist but what will you do for military service members and their families?

If you aren't a "total altruist", what's problem? We are all exactly like you. If you think otherwise, you may be missing the forest for the trees.

The fact that we are applying to this school means that we are OK with our fate resting in the hands of others. The final say of which branch and deployment is not in our hands. Can you blame us for stacking the deck to keep ourselves safe and to serve our own interest? We hold up our end of the bargain, we will be military physicians, treating military personnel and their families. That is what we offer.

 

[devilpup]

Same with the military. They say they care about soldiers but in the end accomplishing the mission comes first.

Yes, this is insight that some students applying might not have. The mission may even trump your own personal convictions.

As this most recent economic crisis shows, that kind of security is actually worth a lot more than we think.

My own family is currently realing from my father losing his job and my mother terrified that she will lose hers.

They are heavily indebted and my dad is having trouble sleeping at night, trying to juggle credit cards to pay off other cards, all of which he used just to pay the bills.

You know what is interesting?

The happiest nation on earth since 2002, when they started doing regular surveys has been Denmark.

You know the reason most Danes say they are happy?

Security, they feel secure that their basic necessities of life are safe and so they can focus on personal enjoyment and growth.

In America you are never safe. A single medical emergency can bankrupt even a wealthy family and a job loss can sink anyone living paycheck to paycheck.

So for someone like me, who has grown up knowing both boom times and bust, who sees the kind of torment a parent goes through when he wonders if he will have to take out a mortgage on the house just to pay the bills, economic security is the cornerstone of a happy life.

My family will never know the kind of fear that tortures my father to sleep every night.

I understand what you mean. I'm from a poor family requiring just that, financial security. With a family military background and a strong desire to serve my country, I applied 3 years ago to USUHS and was accepted. After much thought however, financial security was not enough of an incentive for me to sign 15+ years of my life to place 'the mission' over my family, my profession, and my ideals. I read the military med forums for two years prior to applying, and also interacted with several of their active duty posters. The concensus is that signing a contract and serving your country implies more than you could ever imagine.

I love my country and will serve it's underserved, but not at the expense of placing the 'the mission' above everything I love most. Kudo's to those who do so everyday for our country.

 

[xmsr3]

I have been reading through this thread and I find that most of the comments revolve around XMSR3 being the best applicant in the world (just ask him, he'll tell you) and people being concerned as to which branch is the easiest. It seems that most of you are losing sight of the most important aspect of medicine...the patients. If you are more concerned with which branch will allow you to fulfill your obligation with the least amount of hardship instead of which patient populace is most in need of care then perhaps you should stick with a civilian school. It bothers me to see so many people wanting to join the ranks of military physicians while being chiefly concerned about what they will receive out of the deal. What do you offer? I am not a total altruist but what will you do for military service members and their families? As an individual currently serving in the Army I can tell you that the Army has the predominance of the slots because they have the greatest need. They are the largest branch with the largest number of boots on the ground. After that it becomes a simple logic drill; the closer one gets to the front line the greater the need for solid medical providers.
The military needs all the help it can get but too often that help comes in the form of individuals who are looking to dodge debt while suffering least amount of discomfort. As to XMRS3's utopian view...I would love to be a fly on the wall when the reality of military medicine finally dawns on him.

Two Points RTLW,

1. I do not consider myself the best applicant in the world, in fact I am worried that my lack of previous military experience will make me a weak enough candidate to not get in.

The conflict I have unfortunately been having on SDN is because I have been an inconsiderate *******, who worries way too much and by spouting off about my stats I caused a great deal of stress amoung people with lower stats than me.

Its like those horror stories we hear, about the 4.0, 40 MCAT applicant who volunteered at an aids orphanage in Argentina, applied to 15 schools and got rejected everywhere.

As neurotic pre-meds we can't help but worry, "if that guy didn't get in what chance do I get".

My mistake was not knowing when to shut about my own fears, thus increasing the anxiety of a lot of people. For this I have apologized, several times but it will take a while before people forgive me.

As for your comment about people wanting to pick the easier branch of the service, you are way off.

THERE IS NO EASY BRANCH! Everyone will get deployed at some point, and no matter which service you are in, if we are still in Iraq or Afghanistan in 5-6 years you will probably be going there.

What we are trying to do is make as informed a decision as possible based on what we can piece together about each service.

For many of us, we are primarily concerned with having as much freedom to choose our specialty as possible. Is that selfish, yes, absolutely! But after 8 years of mind numbing studying and cramming for several marathon exams, and a hellish internship, don't we have the right to work in the specialty that we most enjoy?

It seems like you think anyone going into military med should be asking only what does the military need most right now?

Well the answer is, Army Internists and FPs, (there were 93 residency slots for those last year) So should we all just bite the bullet, even if we absolutely fall in love with a different specialty and go down that route?

The fact is that anyone willing to join any branch of the service is serving their country honorably and making certain sacrifices to do so.

Do we not deserve to be happy while serving our country? Keep in mind that each service has need of docs and in all specialties.

I for one dream of being a radiologist in San Diego and will do all that I can to get there. BUT I will be pretty damned pleased to be a radiologist anywhere, whether it be Camp Lajune, Portsmouth, Japan or anywhere my CO tells me to go, heck I even won't mind doing GMO duty in Afghanistan if that's where I am sent, but don't impune my honor by telling me I am selfish for not begging to be sent to do GMO in Afghanistan.

As someone said, the fact that we go to USUHS and sign up with the military means we are all committing to a life of serving a higher purpose.

But that dosn't mean that we can't try to make the most of that life.

I apologize if I misunderstood your post, but I got the impression that you are one of those people who over hears someone talking about how great it is that after 30 years in the military that you retire with a fantastic pension and you start yelling at them that military service is not about the money.

True its not, but then again if someone serves their country honorably for 30 years and dosn't deserve fat pension checks for the rest of his/her life, then who does?

 

[RLTW]

"The fact that we are applying to this school means that we are OK with our fate resting in the hands of others. The final say of which branch and deployment is not in our hands. Can you blame us for stacking the deck to keep ourselves safe and to serve our own interest? We hold up our end of the bargain, we will be military physicians, treating military personnel and their families. That is what we offer."

The safest possible place for you to exist is in a civilian practice. Joining the military and hoping to avoid combat is like wanting to be a lifeguard while hoping never to get wet. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the only noble endeavor is military service but one should accept every aspect of the job, even the ugly parts

Couldn't agree more. We could argue the whole frontline thing though (don't forget that navy docs get play with the marines) . I love the who is better the army or marines argument.

Are you kidding me?! I have nothing but respect for the Marines. I have never met another group able to do so much with so little. There are hard chargers in all the branches and they are the ones who need dedicated, selfless providers.

As an aside, I respect the heck out of Devilpup. At least he/she? took the time to evaluate themselves rather than just going for the easy answer of "no debt". I truly hope Devilpup is successful in the medical field.

 

[RLTW]

For many of us, we are primarily concerned with having as much freedom to choose our specialty as possible. Is that selfish, yes, absolutely! But after 8 years of mind numbing studying and cramming for several marathon exams, and a hellish internship, don't we have the right to work in the specialty that we most enjoy?

You should have minimal issue in selecting a specialty as long as your class standing warrants it (as is the case with most med schools). The statements I took issue with reflect a concern with ending up in a deployable position. If you like I can go back and retrieve the many quotes, both yours and other's, that are in this thread substantiating that impression. I also am not concerned with what the "Military" gets back from you. You are not obligated to the military, you are obligated to the service members. If you can't see that XMRS3, then perhaps Johns Hopkins is for you.

 

[teacherman84]

Two Points RTLW,

1. I do not consider myself the best applicant in the world, in fact I am worried that my lack of previous military experience will make me a weak enough candidate to not get in.

The conflict I have unfortunately been having on SDN is because I have been an inconsiderate *******, who worries way too much and by spouting off about my stats I caused a great deal of stress amoung people with lower stats than me.

Its like those horror stories we hear, about the 4.0, 40 MCAT applicant who volunteered at an aids orphanage in Argentina, applied to 15 schools and got rejected everywhere.

As neurotic pre-meds we can't help but worry, "if that guy didn't get in what chance do I get".

My mistake was not knowing when to shut about my own fears, thus increasing the anxiety of a lot of people. For this I have apologized, several times but it will take a while before people forgive me.

As for your comment about people wanting to pick the easier branch of the service, you are way off.

THERE IS NO EASY BRANCH! Everyone will get deployed at some point, and no matter which service you are in, if we are still in Iraq or Afghanistan in 5-6 years you will probably be going there.

What we are trying to do is make as informed a decision as possible based on what we can piece together about each service.

For many of us, we are primarily concerned with having as much freedom to choose our specialty as possible. Is that selfish, yes, absolutely! But after 8 years of mind numbing studying and cramming for several marathon exams, and a hellish internship, don't we have the right to work in the specialty that we most enjoy?

It seems like you think anyone going into military med should be asking only what does the military need most right now?

Well the answer is, Army Internists and FPs, (there were 93 residency slots for those last year) So should we all just bite the bullet, even if we absolutely fall in love with a different specialty and go down that route?

The fact is that anyone willing to join any branch of the service is serving their country honorably and making certain sacrifices to do so.

Do we not deserve to be happy while serving our country? Keep in mind that each service has need of docs and in all specialties.

I for one dream of being a radiologist in San Diego and will do all that I can to get there. BUT I will be pretty damned pleased to be a radiologist anywhere, whether it be Camp Lajune, Portsmouth, Japan or anywhere my CO tells me to go, heck I even won't mind doing GMO duty in Afghanistan if that's where I am sent, but don't impune my honor by telling me I am selfish for not begging to be sent to do GMO in Afghanistan.

As someone said, the fact that we go to USUHS and sign up with the military means we are all committing to a life of serving a higher purpose.

But that dosn't mean that we can't try to make the most of that life.

I apologize if I misunderstood your post, but I got the impression that you are one of those people who over hears someone talking about how great it is that after 30 years in the military that you retire with a fantastic pension and you start yelling at them that military service is not about the money.

True its not, but then again if someone serves their country honorably for 30 years and dosn't deserve fat pension checks for the rest of his/her life, then who does?

It isn't our lower stats that upsets us, at least in my case, it is your incessant arrogance. I have parts of my application that are strong and I feel will be appreciated at USUHS...but I don't tell everyone about it on a daily basis.

Also, I dont think people with admitted zero experience with military life and milimed need to be clarifying what life is really like as a military doc for other posters. Military life is a lot more than can be gleened from reading tidbits here and there.

There are a lot of people on this forumn with experience who can answer these questions...leave the clarification to them. I'm not claiming to be one of these as I am not prior service but my wife and I are AF brats so I can appreciate when someone is just running their mouth.

Which brings me to my last point...very very few people serve for 30 years in the military. If you are in for 30 years you are most likely not even practicing medicine anymore but are completely admin. And there is nothing fat about the pension checks...they are nice, but as a radiologist civilian pay outweighs it big time

 

[xmsr3]

It isn't our lower stats that upsets us, at least in my case, it is your incessant arrogance. I have parts of my application that are strong and I feel will be appreciated at USUHS...but I don't tell everyone about it on a daily basis.

Also, I dont think people with admitted zero experience with military life and milimed need to be clarifying what life is really like as a military doc for other posters. Military life is a lot more than can be gleened from reading tidbits here and there.

There are a lot of people on this forumn with experience who can answer these questions...leave the clarification to them. I'm not claiming to be one of these as I am not prior service but my wife and I are AF brats so I can appreciate when someone is just running their mouth.

Which brings me to my last point...very very few people serve for 30 years in the military. If you are in for 30 years you are most likely not even practicing medicine anymore but are completely admin. And there is nothing fat about the pension checks...they are nice, but as a radiologist civilian pay outweighs it big time

Ok, I am finding this very frustrating, the whole arrogance thing. Did I mention my stats a lot, sure, but that was over a week ago. Ever since then I have not once mentioned my stats, and rather than proclaim myself to be an allstar who was god's gift to USUHS, I have apologized profusley and critisized myself for being so inconsiderate, admitted that I am a far weaker candidate that I initially thought, (the cause of all my concern) and have been nothing but cordial, considerate and polite in all my posts.

And as for me running my mouth, I'm sorry for trying to be helpful but I have spent months on the military med forums and have learned a lot in that time.

When someone asks for the difference between the branches and I feel I know the answer, I will answer to the best of my abilities. If you feel I am wrong then please correct me, so that we may all learn.

I admit that I am an excitable young idealist who is sure to learn some very hard truths in USUHS and the Navy. But what would the world be without those idealists, who can be thrown into the meat grinder of the real world and whose blood oils the wheels of modern society?

Perhaps you are correct and after my commitment is up I will decide that the Navy is so far outside the idealised image I had that its not worth hanging around until retirement and choose instead the big money of private medicine. But until that time I will try to make the best of the situation, whatever it may be, and in so doing I will fulfill a vital role by providing the best medical skills I can muster to an organization that is in dire need of physicians with such skills.

And I ask you, and other, wiser and more experienced applicants to forgive me my naive idealism. It was Winston Churchill who said, "If you're young and not liberal you have no heart." Well I am young, liberal and have plenty of heart, at least for now, and that is what the Navy needs at this moment.

Perhaps I will love the military as much as I think, most likely not, but at least I will be serving a vital role to society, that much is for sure. And in the end, that kind of social service, from myself and all who apply to and are accepted into USUHS, is what this world needs more off.

And let us not forget the old chinese proverb that even if your life should turn out to be far worse than you imagine, you can take heart in one fact. You will always have interesting stories to tell.

Oh and regarding the "fat pensions" that you consider nearly "nice", 75% of base pay for a 0-6 after 30 years comes to $85k/year. If that kind of money is not fat in your book then Radiologists in the private sector must truely be minting money

P.S

While I, personally, have never served in the military, my family has a long and rich tradition of naval service, though not in this country. My great grandfather served in the Polish Navy during WWII and fought the Nazis valiently. My grandfather was a captain of a minesweeper that demined the remnants of that same war and my father served aboard a battleship, though never saw combat, (given that he would have been up against the US navy if he had, thats a good thing).

So I do have plenty of second hand accounts of what military life is really like, but of course one never truely knows the extent of one's ignorance until they can live the experience personally.

 

[teacherman84]

Ok, I am finding this very frustrating, the whole arrogance thing. Did I mention my stats a lot, sure, but that was over a week ago.

It was only a few days ago...its on this page scroll up. You did stop...but you were referencing it and I was responding.

And as for me running my mouth, I'm sorry for trying to be helpful but I have spent months on the military med forums and have learned a lot in that time.
When someone asks for the difference between the branches and I feel I know the answer, I will answer to the best of my abilities. If you feel I am wrong then please correct me, so that we may all learn.

I wasnt just addressing you...many posters do it.

Oh and regarding the "fat pensions" that you consider nearly "nice", 75% of base pay for a 0-6 after 30 years comes to $85k/year. If that kind of money is not fat in your book then Radiologists in the private sector must truely be minting money

But like I said, hardly anyone does 30 years...especially in the higher paying specialties. As a USUHS student, if you do push through till you can retire and you do make O6, you'll most likely get out at 24 years. At this point your retirement is less than 60k. As an experienced radiologist making over 300k it just doesnt seem so fat anymore. Especially looking at the decade you have worked beyond your commitment making a significant amount less than your civilian counterparts. This difference in compensation added to the fact that you face 6 months in the desert every couple years and the hardship of uprooting your family just as frequently is enough to make even the most patriotic and gung ho individuals think twice about another decade for 60k a year at retirement.
I'm not attacking you, but this is why a lot of docs on the milimed forum discourage students from entering the scholarships and USUHS...it is easy on the front side to say I am going to do my time, serve my country and its soldiers and then retire, but when you are a husband and a father looking back on 7 years of duty in which you've missed almost two years of you family's life while deployed and are facing a move to a base you'd rather not move to...getting out is pretty tempting.

 

[xmsr3]

teacherman you are right of course. Until we try something ourselves we can never know what its really like. That is true for all things, whether it be medicine, the military or yoga.

I will approach military medicine like I do everything, way overestimating the difficulty and underestimating my ability to handle it. It may be psychologically unwise but it has worked for me.

When I first started university I wanted to be a doctor but started down the pre-law path because I was worried that I couldn't survive the chemistry and o-chem, (I took advanced chem in high school and thermodynamics was a hell that scarred me for life

But I decided that if I didn't at least try I would spend the rest of my life regretting it. So, starting semester 2 I started taking the pre-reqs, starting with intro to chem, just the one science course at first.

I approached that course and all my following science courses as if they were angy vipers, out to kill me. I took obsessive notes in each class, filling 3-4 notebooks per semester/class. I over studied for every exam and went to every office hours and treated every assignment as if it were a matter of life and death.

Over time I gradually developed confidence in my skills and ended up taking Physics 1 with lab, O-Chem 2 and O-chem lab, (9 hours/week!) all in the same semester. Though by this time I didn't fear flunking these exams, I still approached each and every assignment as if it were a battle and every test as if it were a war.

This approach of expecting the worst, preparing for armageddon and being pleasently surprised has turned out really well of me and I hope that translates into success in the Navy.

I started preparing for ODS 18 months in advance, by training for marathons, because I imagine that only marathoner will survive the hell they will put us through.

The greatest regret people have on their death beds isn't the failures they experienced, it was not haveing the courage to even attempt to chase their dreams. By having the courage to face our fears and try the things that we have always wanted to try, we experience the richness of life. And if we have very low expecations and expect the worst, then we can mostly be pleasently surprised by the outcomes and extract as much joy from life as possible.

Perhaps I will find military medicine to be as bad as I fear and I will get out as soon as my 7 years are up, or perhaps I will find it is not anywhere near as bad as I feared, as has been the case for everything else in my life.

But whatever the outcome, by trying, I will at least have the satisfaction of knowing for a certainty and that will be one less regret I will have on my deathbed.

 

[teacherman84]

I started preparing for ODS 18 months in advance, by training for marathons, because I imagine that only marathoner will survive the hell they will put us through.

I know the AF gets a bad rep for being soft during training but I cant imagine officer's training is going to require the endurance of a marathoner. My mom at age 50 is in better shape than most of the docs in her MG.
Even in speaking with an Army doc, my training to be an ocean lifeguard is more intense than what he experienced.
You would be better off making sure you can run a quick 1.5 mile and do push ups...which is a totally different work out than 26.2 miles.
If you can do well with PT standards you should be golden...

MALES: AGE 20 TO 24 YEARS

PERFORMANCE PERFORMANCE POINTS CURL PUSH 1.5-MILE SWIM
CATEGORY LEVEL UPS UPS RUN 500-YD 450-M
Outstanding High 100 105 87 8:30 6:30 6:20
Outstanding Medium 95 103 86 9:00 7:00 6:50
Outstanding Low 90 98 81 9:15 7:30 7:20
Excellent High 85 94 77 9:45 8:00 7:50
Excellent Medium 80 90 74 10:00 8:15 8:05
Excellent Low 75 87 71 10:30 8:45 8:35
Good High 70 78 64 10:45 9:30 9:20
Good Medium 65 66 55 11:30 10:30 10:20
Good Low 60 58 47 12:00 11:30 11:20
Satisfactory High 55 54 45 12:45 12:00 11:50
Satisfactory Medium 50 50 42 13:15 12:15 12:05
Probationary 45 46 37 13:30 13:00 12:50

 

[RLTW]

The best thing you can do if you are new to the military is keep your mouth shut and your ears open. Don't worry about impressing people with how much you know or what you've done or who you know or where you've been. They will figure it out by the proficiency with which you accomplish tasks and the your answers to the questions that they ask. A helpful military term would be "spotlighting". If you put on a show, talking yourself up and others down whenever you think the "spotlight" is on you then you will find yourself ostracized by your peers and avoided by your superiors. If people tell you that you are being boorish then chances are........Don't spend the time trying to convince people otherwise just correct the behavior. If you are unable to identify the issue then just start by talking less. That usually corrects most things.

If anyone has any military related questions let me know. Though I am not an authority on military medicine I can definitely field general military life questions.

 

[RLTW]

The best thing you can do if you are new to the military is keep your mouth shut and your ears open. Don't worry about impressing people with how much you know or what you've done or who you know or where you've been. They will figure it out by the proficiency with which you accomplish tasks and your answers to the questions that they ask. A helpful military term would be "spotlighting". If you put on a show, talking yourself up and others down whenever you think the "spotlight" is on you then you will find yourself ostracized by your peers and avoided by your superiors. If people tell you that you are being boorish then chances are........Don't spend the time trying to convince people otherwise just correct the behavior. If you are unable to identify the issue then just start by talking less. That usually corrects most things.

If anyone has any military related questions let me know. Though I am not an authority on military medicine I can definitely field general military life questions.