2010-2011 University of Virginia Application Thread

[patriotsfan]

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It's nothing really new, but it's done more formally (while you talk with the students and faculty in the course of the interview day, its done very informally, with students dropping in as they feel like it, except in the context of the interview itself). There's a faculty panel, and a student panel (with students from all four years). There's a reception with the students afterwards. There's a party with the students on Saturday night.

Second Look, in general, is used to see the school again, without the stress of the interview. Are you going to learn something Earth-shattering that you didn't know before? No, but you'll likely pick up on the little details that you were too nervous to pick out during your interview day. And, you know, the first years will have a much better grasp of the curriculum in April than we did in August or September, so if you interviewed early, it's a chance to get a new perspective on things.

Sounds good. I'm looking forward to it!

 

[shredhed]

Out of respect for the class, I have decided to remove this post. I am grateful to be here, and it was not my intention to incite public debate or cause harm.

 

[Strontium]

I found this website and felt I should speak up....

Thanks for the detailed post. Any others with Nxgen curriculum experience care to comment?

 

[NeuroKidd]

Wow. Thank you for taking the time to post all of that, Shredhed. Seriously disturbing and not a side I've heard from anyone at UVa thus far (either on interview day or here on SDN).

 

[afob100]

Well, damn...I certainly appreciate the opposing viewpoint. Hopefully we'll learn more at second look day by talking to other students.

 

[OrangeandMaroon]

Well, damn...I certainly appreciate the opposing viewpoint. Hopefully we'll learn more at second look day by talking to other students.

+1

Slightly concerning.

 

[Catterwaul]

Do I remember correctly that there aren't many merit scholarships for OOS folks-- only those for residents of specific parts of MD, NC, and maybe another state or two?

 

[vicinihil]

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has anything positive to say about the Nxgen curriculum just to see the opposing side. I'm a 3rd year here and was not involved in the Nexgen curriculum but had the traditional pathway instead.

However, just to clear up a couple of issues.

1. Most of your learning in medical school is self directed regardless if the lecturer is good or crappy. We did have handouts and we did study those and whatever was on those handouts were on tests. However, it's a pass/fail system. You can get a 100 in a class or a 70 in the class, it's the same thing. There are plenty of review books out there for each unit of the course and with the phasing out of basic sciences and phasing in of organ based system learning, the use of review books should make this process easier.

2. The only test that matters is Step 1. No one on these forum will ever say dig back into your notes or textbooks to study for this test that ultimately decides your future. You depend on a few review books that you will depend on throughout your 1st 2 years of medical school anyway. UVA does extremely well on the Step 1 with our avg being ~236 compared to national avg ~220.

3. It sucks that they have made it perhaps more research based since I started but heck most residencies want students competent in doing research anyway. Unless you're looking for primary care, research will be a critical component of your education.

4. Most 1st 2 year courses are taught my PhD's at most places that don't know squat about medicine. This is not something *new* to the Nxgen curriculum. The professors from what I've gathered are exactly the same.

5. I can't pretend to know what the 1st years are going through but I think asking some poignant questions on interview day and 2nd look will help you make your decision on whether or not UVA is the right school for you!

 

[mvenus929]

Most of the first year students are unhappy with the curriculum, administration, and the treatment of students.

I'd hardly say that most of our class is unhappy with everything as a whole. Frustrated with aspects of it, particularly this week? Yes, but not unhappy as a whole. I'm sure that when we start our next system in 2 1/2 weeks, where the course director is actually familiar with using learning objectives and has no intention of removing handouts, it will be a lot better.

If you ever ask the faculty a question, they will repeat the question to the audience and say "does anyone have any ideas?" Often they don't know the answer and will tell you to find it on your own later. There is essentially no teacher-student relationship in this program.

I'm actually going to really disagree here. Today isn't a good example of the curriculum as a whole, and it's wrong to say it is. Most of the time, the professors are great about answering questions, and you can form some good relationships with them. I just don't think that the current course director really understood what he was getting himself into, which is why things changed so much between December and now.

And I don't know about your CPD group, but mine is like a family, complete with a 'mom' and 'dad' in our mentors. I'd say that's a pretty good teacher-student relationship.

You don't have a single teacher for a course – it's someone new every day, and they usually have no idea what others have taught you.

That's certainly not unique to UVA. The vast majority of med schools function in that way.

You need to know that this is a research-based medical school. There is little emphasis on clinical medicine, and a huge emphasis on basic science research.

BS. They link almost everything we do to the clinical setting (did you not attend anything yesterday, for instance?). We're learning basic science, though, so it's being taught by basic scientists. And some of them are amazing teachers. Most of them realize that we don't care about the small sector of science that they study, but rather want the big picture. And, again, this is how it works just about everywhere during the first two years. You have the learn the basic science behind the medicine before you can put the medicine into practice.

 

[TheBigValbowski]

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[mvenus929]

***

 

[kmnguyen1124]

Thanks to all the current students who posted on the new cirriculum. It definitely gives me some questions and some things to pay attention to during the second look. Good luck with the rest of your first year guys!

 

[OrangeandMaroon]

Would one of you mind clarifying the printing issue? I am confused as to why you must either read electronic material or print and inordinate amount. Are textbooks not assigned and available for purchase?

 

[ThatQuestionGuy]

Would one of you mind clarifying the printing issue? I am confused as to why you must either read electronic material or print and inordinate amount. Are textbooks not assigned and available for purchase?

There were only three textbooks in the fall that were required and I believe two were online, so most people only had one book (if that). A lot of the information is in handouts in PDF form. Previously, they gave out copies of handouts to everybody, but this year they decided to go paperless for cost/environment reasons. A lot of people were upset about this because they like to mark their notes and it's harder to do on a computer, so some students managed to get a local printing company to print out the online handouts for a few dollars a week for people who wanted them.

 

[ThatQuestionGuy]

Do I remember correctly that there aren't many merit scholarships for OOS folks-- only those for residents of specific parts of MD, NC, and maybe another state or two?

I don't think this is true, there are some named need-based scholarships that are designated for certain areas, but I think there are plenty of those around.

 

[Catterwaul]

I don't think this is true, there are some named need-based scholarships that are designated for certain areas, but I think there are plenty of those around.

To clarify: there are plenty of merit scholarships?

 

[ThatQuestionGuy]

To clarify: there are plenty of merit scholarships?

No, these are need-based I'm talking about. I meant that although the need-based scholarships are named and specified for different types of people, I think that the finaid office will make one fit you if you qualify for need-based aid.

 

[Steeler7588]

I do think that most people are frustrated with the curriculum. I think a lot of us feel like we aren't being prepared properly and that this will hurt us on the USMLE which ultimately hurts our chances of getting into good residency programs.

Yeah, I have to disagree with this as well. This week has been frustrating, but to generalize our entire experience so far based on the past three days is pretty misleading. The majority of people seemed pretty satisfied during MCM. Yes, there are people who dislike TBLs and active learning, but I think most people are unhappy when such activities are planned poorly rather than with the inherent structure of the sessions themselves (most people, I know friends have been dissatisfied with even the best TBLs).

Course directors influence the presentation of the material for their section, and MCM was nothing like this. Yeah, there were lectures previously that didn't have handouts, but the vast majority did. The last four weeks of immunology before winter break was done 98% PERFECTLY. Our class did so well on the last summative, so I'm not even sure how one could argue we don't know what we're being tested on.

I need to go to sleep, so I'll try to address the concerns in that post in the next few days. I'll end by saying that while I've been pretty disappointed with this week (all three days of it), the first four months were pretty well done. I know negative posts about schools are portrayed as being more honest on SDN, but I have to say that post generalizes the NxGen curriculum on poor experiences of the last 72 hours, when our current unit is only 3 weeks long and has been designed differently than the previous unit, which was much longer.

EDIT: Still awake, haha. Just wanted to make a quick point:

They all agree that when we switch to the Musculoskeletal system with MAM, it will get better, because she knows how to write LOs, and she knows how to provide handouts.

While the MCM course leaders were happy to provide handouts to as many things as possible, IMM was largely organized by our current course leader, from what I understand. The handouts and LOs for those four weeks were perfect, which is why I'm confused with the few handouts for this week. I thought the IMM/MIC leader was happy with how the second years were presented with the material just a couple months before.

 

[TheBigValbowski]

*

 

[k3npachi]

Hey bud. I'm one of your classmates. I'm not unhappy here. Haven't failed a single test yet.

Classwork is hard. But you know what? ITS F*CKING MED SCHOOL.

Reading doesn't take me all day, and I am by no means the smartest kid in the class. I'm not sure what your problem is.

No exam has ever taken me more than 2 hours. I don't think that is unusual either.

I can't even be bothered to read the rest of this. Suck it up or leave.

I found this website and felt I should speak up. If you are considering enrolling at uva, you need to be aware of few things to make an educated choice. I will try to keep this factual as much as possible, but be aware that I am very frustrated. The school has a new curriculum and an infamous round classroom, which if you have interviewed, you have seen. Most of the first year students are unhappy with the curriculum, administration, and the treatment of students. Right now, most students are angry. I've hated it pretty much from the beginning, and I feel that I've given it an adequate chance before publicly expressing my feelings. In short, it's a nightmare.

The curriculum is designed around a concept called Team Based Learning (this is different than "problem based learning"... kind of). It is a new-age alternative educational philosophy, and the administration has been sold on it because of the supposed "research" behind it showing how effective it is (pseudoscience at best). More importantly, schools all around the country are starting to use it. Unfortunately it is progressive snake oil, and like all other interactive group learning methods, doesn’t work. Worse than being just an educational distraction, it's really a detriment. We have only been exposed to a little bit of it, and the understanding is that future classes will be exposed to more and more of it. I can't even imagine.

The ruling educational philosophy here is that you are responsible for your own learning. I.e., you need to teach yourself medical school, along with your other students. They use the term "active learning." In reality, this translates to the removal of educational resources. Previous classes were given printed handouts with the required material they needed to study for exams. There is some force in the administration that does not want us to have these study guides. As a result, the handouts were no longer printed, and we could only access them online. Now they are being phased out completely. Instead, we are assigned multi-chapter readings that can sometimes take a whole day to get through from online textbooks and esoteric journal articles without being told which parts are important for us to study and remember. We are somehow supposed to figure that out on our own.

The testing policy here is absurd. The curriculum is changing, but the examinations are not. The exams are 4-5 hours long and occur about once a month. The examinations use questions of the format from the old curriculum where students were given study guides and told what they needed to know. The only difference now is that we don't really know what's required of us. All exams are online and we are not allowed to see our answers after the exam. The same goes for mini-exams, which are given every 1-2 weeks. If you want to see a copy of the test, you have to sign a copy out and sit in a proctored reading room. You cannot copy any test questions down for study. The most absurd part is what they call "readiness assurance tests," which are given in the TBL sessions. You are assigned a (normally extremely long) article to read on a subject you have never studied or been taught before. You then come into class and take a quiz on these topics. The quiz is extremely detailed and most people fail unless they have prior knowledge of the subject. You then re-take the quiz as a group (we sit in groups of 6) and spend the rest of the time trying to teach the topic to everyone else. And again, you are not allowed to keep the quiz questions for study. If you ever ask the faculty a question, they will repeat the question to the audience and say "does anyone have any ideas?" Often they don’t know the answer and will tell you to find it on your own later. There is essentially no teacher-student relationship in this program. They call this "passive-learning" and assure us that it's bad and wrong (I suppose teaching ourselves everything from Wikipedia is more effective?). The system is pass/fail, but they still use a point system, and even if you get enough points to pass the class, you can’t pass if you fail an exam – they will make you re-take it. They are not upfront about the grading and don’t like to answer questions about what you need to do to pass.

This entire program is online. If you don't like reading textbooks and articles off a computer screen or taking tests online, you probably will hate it here. I had to buy an industrial printer and burn through hundreds of pages a week.

The format is one-class at a time with 150 students together in a room. If you want to say something, you have to use a microphone connected to the PA system. The result is that a minority of the students will spend a majority of the time trying to hear the sound of their own voice. Everything is done in class on powerpoint and shown on screens hanging from overhead, which aren’t comfortable to look at at all. This is all by design, and it’s maddening. You don’t have a single teacher for a course – it’s someone new every day, and they usually have no idea what others have taught you.

Many of the faculty are great, but many are disrespectful towards students. The TBL curriculum really treats us like children who don’t like school instead of motivated adults who are paying to be here. Administrators are almost entirely unresponsive to critical feedback. They don’t really seem to care that so many students are miserable or that we don’t like having educational resources denied to us or having barriers introduced to learning, such as the policy of reviewing exams. Their response is almost always “tough, this is the way it’s going to be.” In fact, it’s really going to get worse as the traditional “lecture” elements are phased out of the curriculum and replaced with team based activities where we look up material on wikipedia and try to teach it to one another.

Classroom activities occur from 8-12 daily, and are pretty much mandatory. Occasionally there will be an optional lecture, but it’s usually wedged between mandatory activities, so most people are always in the class. The “fluff” sessions that no one would voluntarily go to are always mandatory, whereas the lectures with important material are never mandatory.

You need to know that this is a research-based medical school. There is little emphasis on clinical medicine, and a huge emphasis on basic science research. We had to write a research paper last semester. We are constantly assigned journal articles, and PhD types seem to be running the show here. If you don’t have an interest in academic medicine, you probably won’t like it here.

This experience has been the opposite of what I expected. Nothing they do is logical or pragmatic, and everything just seems to be getting worse for no reason and designed to cause us constant headaches and stress. I have never really been more disappointed by anything in my life. I was so excited to come here, and I have been so let down. I am starting to consider not returning next year. I’m paying to be taught medicine by experts who want to teach (not by other students), and that’s not happening. It seems the mission of this school is to prevent this kind of instruction and learning as much as possible. It’s a disorganized mess, but still I guess a few people are ok with everything. I haven’t really heard anyone praise how great the curriculum is, however. You need to take a good look, talk to many first year students, and get a really good idea about what you are signing up for and paying huge dollars for. We didn’t know how it was going to be. You all have a choice. The administration has made one thing clear: this “next generation” curriculum is here to stay. They are convinced that their way of learning is the only right way for everyone. Just because something is different does not mean that it is better or because something is old does not mean that it needs to be replaced. Make sure that it is something you want to be a part of.

I hope that this has been helpful to someone out there.

 

[NormalHead]

RESPONSE TO SHREDHEAD from a fellow classmate:

Right now, most students are angry.
Some are frustrated. "Most" of us are busy studying and not complaining.
I've hated it pretty much from the beginning, and I feel that I've given it an adequate chance before publicly expressing my feelings. In short, it's a nightmare.
The beginning was a bit rough, then it got a lot better organized. We recently switched into a new unit that has more initial quirks. Also, I had some great dreams last night.
The curriculum is designed around a concept called Team Based Learning
It's somewhat hit or miss, and you invariably get a smaller volume of information than from a lecture or reading, but talking with classmates and the professors make you actually remember it, and that part does work. They are listening to feedback and trying to make these increasingly effective.

The ruling educational philosophy here is that you are responsible for your own learning. I.e., you need to teach yourself medical school, along with your other students.
There has been a large amount of reading recently, and we all miss the concise handouts where it was summarized for us, but they are still teaching us in class and the large reading is recommended, not really necessary to pass, you could just come to class and take good notes and look up any other questions.

The testing policy here is absurd.
I like it. Rather cyclical- a few quizzes to test how youre doing, and a summative exam on a month of material, no huge scary semester final, etc.
The curriculum is changing, but the examinations are not. The exams are 4-5 hours long and occur about once a month. The examinations use questions of the format from the old curriculum where students were given study guides and told what they needed to know. The only difference now is that we don't really know what's required of us. All exams are online and we are not allowed to see our answers after the exam. The same goes for mini-exams, which are given every 1-2 weeks. If you want to see a copy of the test, you have to sign a copy out and sit in a proctored reading room.
It would be nice to have a better test-review policy, I agree. With the honor code I feel that we should have better access to our own tests, but they have tried to be increasingly flexible about our time to review them and challenge questions, etc.

This entire program is online. If you don't like reading textbooks and articles off a computer screen or taking tests online, you probably will hate it here. I had to buy an industrial printer and burn through hundreds of pages a week.
You can purchase the hard copy textbooks if you prefer, but yes, most of the reading is conveniently available for free from textbook access through the library.

The format is one-class at a time with 150 students together in a room.
Yes, most of our classes are all together, with activities in smaller groups. The powerpoints vary in terms of interactivity. The professors change because each prof is teaching their specialty, and they can give us a better depth of knowledge, etc. Unfortunately, this does mean there are some disconnects, but ultimately I like that the varying styles mix it up.

Many of the faculty are great, but many are disrespectful towards students.
Many of the students are great, but some are disrespectful to the teachers.
The TBL curriculum really treats us like children who don't like school instead of motivated adults who are paying to be here. Administrators are almost entirely unresponsive to critical feedback.
There are multiple mechanisms of feedback and they have always seemed to reply pretty promptly. It's the first year and they are all about fixing any small issues.

Classroom activities occur from 8-12 daily, and are pretty much mandatory. Occasionally there will be an optional lecture, but it's usually wedged between mandatory activities, so most people are always in the class. The "fluff" sessions that no one would voluntarily go to are always mandatory, whereas the lectures with important material are never mandatory.
If you don't like class, don't go to med school. I agree.
You need to know that this is a research-based medical school. There is little emphasis on clinical medicine, and a huge emphasis on basic science research. We had to write a research paper last semester. We are constantly assigned journal articles, and PhD types seem to be running the show here. If you don't have an interest in academic medicine, you probably won't like it here.
LOL. Research paper of 2-3 pages was for a small engagement activity and graded on completion I believe-> just meant to get us familiar with some resources. I didn't enjoy it but I don't feel pushed towards research. I think with Clinical Performance Development aspects of the curriculum we are much more clinically engaged than many med students early in med school.
This experience has been the opposite of what I expected. Nothing they do is logical or pragmatic, and everything just seems to be getting worse for no reason and designed to cause us constant headaches and stress. I have never really been more disappointed by anything in my life. I was so excited to come here, and I have been so let down. I am starting to consider not returning next year. I'm paying to be taught medicine by experts who want to teach (not by other students), and that's not happening. It seems the mission of this school is to prevent this kind of instruction and learning as much as possible. It's a disorganized mess, but still I guess a few people are ok with everything. I haven't really heard anyone praise how great the curriculum is, however. You need to take a good look, talk to many first year students, and get a really good idea about what you are signing up for and paying huge dollars for. We didn't know how it was going to be. You all have a choice. The administration has made one thing clear: this "next generation" curriculum is here to stay. They are convinced that their way of learning is the only right way for everyone. Just because something is different does not mean that it is better or because something is old does not mean that it needs to be replaced. Make sure that it is something you want to be a part of.
No logical points to counter, but YES- TALK TO MULTIPLE STUDENTS.

I hope that this has been helpful to someone out there.

 

[4Me0]

There have been quite a few replies that address Shredhed's points directly so I will try and keep this short. I don't think anybody will deny that the last couple days have been a little rough. But, to take them as a representative sample of the entire curriculum is a gross and incorrect generalization. I have had my ups-and-downs with the curriculum, but have never regretted my decision to come here. I have learned a significant amount of material in the past few months that, ultimately, is comparable to our peers at other institutions. Considering the averages on the quizzes and exams, there is no indication that the majority of our class is not doing well. I particularly want to point out that there has been an equal emphasis on clinical medicine and basic science--consider CPD, where we discuss cases, interview patients, learn basic clinical skills, etc. We don't just limit ourselves to hypothetical cases, but meet actual patients on a regular basis. As for the emphasis on basic science, I have a little bit of a news flash, which is that current and future medicine is fueled by the advances in basic science. It is a two-way street where the problems in the clinic fuel investigations in the lab, which in turn provides solutions for problems in the clinic. There is no indication in our lecturers that the faculty are determined to make us all academic physicians. Sure, we read quite a few papers. But would you rather wait till you have your MD and an eager patient asking you about a clinical trial a few years down the line before you learn how to read a scientific paper? Or would it be better to learn it now, where you can interpret it incorrectly and learn how to read it correctly instead. In short, for the future applicants out there, I have thoroughly enjoyed my past few months at UVA and am looking forward to the next few years. I sure hope you hear from enough first-year students when you come to interview before you base your decision on one disgruntled student's rant.

 

[boomtown]

I'm Happy. What happened shredhed?

 

[medslacker]

Hey shredhed,

I think you need a drank. My friends Jim, Jack and I will be at the Biltmore at 8pm. $1 rails. I think you can afford that even with your $180,000 debt.

Love,
Samir Patel

 

[dhjiang]

I'm also a classmate of shredhed and TheBigValbowski at UVA. To all the pre-meds out there:

Medical school is hard. Whether your school calls your curriculum oldgen, secondgen, or nextgen, medical school will be hard.

Our class, as a group, is doing well. The average score on all our examinations is consistently well above the minimum passing score (70%). On every major exam thus far, our class has had at least a 95% pass rate.

Story of medical school. It's hard. You'll get through it. 👍

 

[mvenus929]

mvenus, I think you miss my point with the attendance issue. I am not looking to just skip classes. I think the normal lectures are quite useful and I go to them even though they don't have points associated with them. I just have a problem going to the useless discussion/TBL classes and unfortunately those have points associated with them.

Actually, most of them don't have points associated with them. That was an MCM phenomenon. In the syllabus for MIC, the only things that have points associated with them outside of the exams is the TBL. From my understanding based on talking to the course director, it will be that way in future systems (though the SMECs can feel free to correct me on that). I'm still not clear on what the penalty for not attending those classes is, though.

But I think the discussion we had last today, for instance, was great (though, admittedly, we had some rather absurd ideas thrown around in our group that made it much lighter). Yes, some of the other discussions haven't worked as well. Again, the solution to this problem isn't to eliminate the attendance policy. Rather, you should be providing feedback as to what works and what doesn't work. Knowing that the TBLs won't be going away anytime soon, think up ways that you think they would be more worth your time.

 

[asdfghij]

*

 

[asdfghij]

oops posted 2x

 

[hpehlivan]

I gotta disagree with most things Shredhed has said, as they seem overly exaggerated and stem from individual frustration rather than representing the majority of the class.

I personally really do love this curriculum, and it just makes so much more sense. We are building from the ground up (cellular/molecular level), and everything we have learned in the beginning we will be going over again and again during the actual systems. This is opposed to having, for example, a whole class on pathology of the entire human body and then forgetting it a year from now. By breaking it down into whats pertinent for the subject we are learning it can be integrated and applied in a more complete way. I do understand the viewpoint that some of the things we have learned can seem like wastes of time, but the point is to be exposed to it while young in our medical careers so that it isnt foreign to us when we are out in the field.

UVA has too much to lose to let us do bad on step 1, which seems to be all that you are truly concerned about. If you dont get your dermatology spot, sorry, there are other medical fields I'm sure you can excel in.

 

[medslacker]

I remember looking at this website when I was applying to med school so I feel like I have a duty to contribute (all jokes aside). I understand where shredhead is coming from, but the extent of his/her frustration is not typical in our class. I think my classmates have addressed that post well enough - also acknowledging some of the bumps we have here, so I'm just going to let you all know the top likes about UVA so far. If you have any other questions you can message me and I'll try to respond.

Likes

Patient interaction - Only a semester into med school I've already had personal contact a diverse range of patients - including patients with Cancer, HIV and Drug addiction. Their stories have been everything from tragic to inspirational - this is my favorite part of medical school so far.

Learning studio - It looks cool. We spent a good hour today with a lively discussion about vaccine development. Everyone was pretty engaged and there was lots of jokes/laughter from both the students and directors -makes 4 hours of class a lot more bearable. I like being able to talk with all the people at my table and with my TBL groups. The group activities are either hit or miss, but I appreciate the effort.

Online Books - I only bought one textbook so far - it was a mistake I don't even need it. Saves you lots of $$$$.

Treated like Big Kids - Quizzes can be taken at home anytime during the weekend they're assigned. Similarly, tests can be taken anytime in the library during the weekend. Don't want to go to class - don't go. Attendance points make up very little of your grade. If you don't go to class all lectures can be downloaded and watched on your computer.

The people - everyone in our class is pretty chill and not too groupy. People attempt to be social! People also share notes/learning objectives that help a lot with quizzes/tests. I don't think I can think of anyone that is a "gunner."

The majority of the professors we have are personable. Both my of CPD mentors are great. At the end of the semester we went to one of their houses and had dinner with them, and talked for a few hours about our experiences and random topics. If you want to make relationships with students or professors you certainly can if you make an effort.

WE HAVE FUN - We have all kinds of social events outside of class including parties, dinners, bar nights, movie nights etc. Upwards of half the class participates, which is cool. Knowing that you're gonna have a fun night with everyone after a tough exam, makes learning biochem or immunology bearable. If you don't allow yourself to have fun during med school you're going be miserable wherever you go.

UVA is pretty Stress free. Except for the days before a summative exam I feel pretty relaxed, I watch way too much TV, I get plenty of sleep, can go to the gym 4-5 times a week and I go out at night 1-3 times a week (more than I should). My stress level in med school is comparable to that of undergrad. (I know 2nd year will be tougher though.) Med school stress is what you make of it, if you try to read and memorize everything you're going to wear yourself out. This is why the curriculum is pass fail! If you study hard there is no reason you should fail anything period. I'm a pretty big slacker and I've only failed one quiz by 2% and that's because I didn't study enough.

With all that being said if you consider yourself a flexible, outgoing, self-disciplined person UVA will be a good fit for you. I'm sure a lot of the kinks in the curriculum will be fixed by next year. I went to UVA for undergrad and I'm happy I stayed here so far. Good luck everyone, I know application year is stressful but you'll get through it.

 

[pwmurphy]

To the pre-meds reading this thread:

I'm a first year at UVA SOM and I'd like to agree with hpehlivan that our new curriculum is wonderful. I think Shreadhead's points are exaggerated and some are just falsehood. They certainly don't represent the majority opinion of the class. Then again, my opinions probably don't represent the whole class either.

What I will say is that our curriculum is new, so there have been rough edges. However, students of the classes of 2015 and 2016 will see a more streamlined version and I can only see upside to the program at UVA. Importantly, we have amazing professors and course directors who put in constant work to improve the curriculum and their own professional skills. Personally, I can't imagine being happy at a traditional program that gives you 8 hours of dry lecture a day and never tries to improve their format.

PWM

I gotta disagree with most things Shredhed has said, as they seem overly exaggerated and stem from individual frustration rather than representing the majority of the class.

I personally really do love this curriculum, and it just makes so much more sense. We are building from the ground up (cellular/molecular level), and everything we have learned in the beginning we will be going over again and again during the actual systems. This is opposed to having, for example, a whole class on pathology of the entire human body and then forgetting it a year from now. By breaking it down into whats pertinent for the subject we are learning it can be integrated and applied in a more complete way. I do understand the viewpoint that some of the things we have learned can seem like wastes of time, but the point is to be exposed to it while young in our medical careers so that it isnt foreign to us when we are out in the field.

UVA has too much to lose to let us do bad on step 1, which seems to be all that you are truly concerned about. If you dont get your dermatology spot, sorry, there are other medical fields I'm sure you can exceed in.

 

[AKBP]

I'm also a first year at UVa SoM, and just wanted to emphasize that while there have been a monkey wrenches in the works here and there...its not entirely unexpected with a new curriculum. And when it works well, it is a beautiful thing to behold. Sure, there have times when class has been frustrating. But there are also times when class has been amazing. I don't regret coming here. Not one bit.

 

[vicinihil]

heh this is great

 

[justinbaily]

I am also a current first year student and I have wanted to respond to this post for a few days. It was, unfortunately, so long and hyperbolic that it will be difficult to properly address everything that the student brings up. Please feel free to ask questions for students to answer if you have any concerns.

I disagree with their statement that there are virtually no faculty-student relationships. Beyond the obvious example of CPD, where most groups feel that they have formed a close-knit faculty-student family, I think that students also end up feeling close to the system leaders and a few of the lecturers. On the last day of our first semester, the administrators threw us a party in the learning studio where the outgoing system leaders were presented with roses, gifts, happy speeches and hugs from students. During the fall, one of our favorite professors even came to a class get-together by the Lawn to judge our pie-baking contest and present the winner with a pineapple trophy. We also have the new College system for personalized guidance and activities outside of class with our personal Dean. I think that the connection between the faculty and students has actually been enhanced by our new teaching facilities. The professors are no longer just facing a room of students and lecturing up at them; rather, they are on our level, walking around the classroom asking questions, engaging in discussion and offering assistance.

Concerning the responsiveness of the administration and how well they receive feedback about the new curriculum, there are currently a huge number of ways for students to be heard: a rotating 25% of the class fills out an optional survey concerning that week's resources, activities, lectures, etc; a student focus group meets periodically with the faculty leader of the system for a one-hour lunch and discussion about how things are going; we have elected student representatives who constantly meet with all levels of the administration to voice student feedback; there is a way for students to anonymously comment on the curriculum at all times; a dean comes and has an informal town hall with all of the first year students every now and then; and if you email or speak to the professor in charge of the system at any time, they're likely to give you a quick and friendly response. They even have two people who do nothing else but collect the feedback from our class and present it to the people in charge of the curriculum. I literally can't imagine a more student-centered and responsive system, so it is unfair to accuse the administration of being inflexible. In fact, they are hard at work right now putting together some new resources for next week’s classes because they are so responsive.

The testing policy here is excellent. We have the freedom to take our exams on our computers whenever we want over the weekend, they’re unproctored and they’re pass-fail. You could take the formative exams at your parents’ house in California on Sunday morning if you so desired. Regarding the concern about exam timing, you have that many hours to take the exam because they want you to feel like you have nearly as much time as you want. I have never taken more than two and a half, and I recheck my answers multiple times and take multiple bathroom breaks. It’s not uncommon for people to grab a bite to eat outside of the library right in the middle of their exam.

Lol at all the students being together in a classroom as a criticism.

To move on to the curriculum, one of the reasons that I enjoy UVa is the emphasis placed on applying information and having a firm grasp of the concepts. If your goal was to just memorize facts without seeing the clinical consequences of them, then you could go to any school with a bare-bones traditional curriculum, sit in a lecture hall all morning starring silently at a powerpoint, and then spend your afternoon memorizing your packet of facts. Professors devote a great deal of energy towards creating question packets and case presentations for us to work through after we have been exposed to a solid foundation. For instance, we might learn about cytometry one day, and then show up to class to work through a number of diagnoses aided by cytometry printouts. There are a number of team-based activities where you work together to apply information that you’ve learned, but with the exception of a few activities that didn’t really work, I have benefitted tremendously from both hearing my teammates reasoning for an answer and from teaching other students my own thought-process.

That’s not to say that we don’t have “traditional” methods of teaching some information. If material would be better presented in a lecture format, then the school usually has enough sense to do it that way. Next year we will spend half of our time in the lecture hall upstairs, so they’ve obviously not abandoned it. I would say that the split is roughly 50/50 so far between engaging activities and lectures. This creates a diverse schedule that stops school from feeling like a grind, but it also offers something for everyone. Lectures do not have mandatory attendance, and you have nearly immediate access to a podcast of the lecture after it is done in order to review it on your own time.

I also agree with what other people are writing about the new order of the curriculum. It’s much more logical to work from the ground up because you always need to know the underlying processes to actually understand something. They are trying to move toward comprehension rather than the pure memorization you see at so many other programs, and the pragmatic ordering of subjects is another indication of that.

The program is mostly online, although we are provided with physical paper for a number of activities and you can buy hard-copies of the textbooks if you want. Many programs are going online for financial and environmental reasons. If you want a printed packet, there is an outside company that prints one for a couple of dollars each week and literally brings it to the classroom. I do that.

A lot of the other scattered criticisms are hard to answer just because it would take a long time for me to explain them. For instance, shredhead says that we are “assigned a (normally extremely long) article to read on a subject you’ve never studied or been taught before” and that “most people fail”. This is objectionable for a number of reasons, in that I’m almost always comfortable studying the material we’re given and I don’t believe that many people fail. But, because you don’t really have a nuanced understanding about what TBL is, it is difficult to go into too detailed of a defense.

For everything outside of class, I agree with medslacker/Samir.

Please recognize that a lot of what was written represents the views of an admittedly frustrated student and that the majority of the criticism represents a three-day blip in our curriculum. Before I enrolled I was a little anxious because the curriculum was new and difficult to completely understand, so something like that would have scared me. If you’re curious, please try to solicit the views of as many current students as possible, and don’t take this as somehow representing how students are “really” feeling. Neurokid, the fact that it is “seriously disturbing and not a side I've heard from anyone at UVa thus far (either on interview day or here on SDN)” is a strong argument for that.

TL;DR: UVa is great, and I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.

 

[ufdoc11]

has anyone else who has been accepted to uva received an email from certiphi asking for their consent to a background check?

 

[OrangeandMaroon]

has anyone else who has been accepted to uva received an email from certiphi asking for their consent to a background check?

Got one last week. It took about six hours from original email to completed background check.

 

[Strontium]

I have been accepted for a while now but have not received that email. Should I call or wait?

 

[OrangeandMaroon]

I have been accepted for a while now but have not received that email. Should I call or wait?

The first sentence of the email reads:
"You have received this email because you have been waitlisted or conditionally accepted by one or more of the medical schools participating in the AAMC-facilitated program for performing criminal background checks on conditionally accepted applicants and waiting list applicants."

AAMC could have been notified by a school other than UVa as the background isn't school specific.

What I'm really waiting on is our computer ID. I'd really like to start filling out the financial aid forms.

 

[crixx]

Hey guys-
I was lucky enough to have received an interview invite this week, however, I'm having a hard time justifying the time/cost associated with the travel. As I've already been accepted to a few schools, I'm looking for things that make UVa different from other places or other reasons to attend this interview. Thanks for any responses!

 

[mvenus929]

It's hard to tell you what's different about UVA without knowing what you're looking for. Or if you'd be a good fit here. But... here's my two favorite aspects of it.

1) The people. I don't think our class could be any more awesome. We get together and have class-wide parties fairly often, and hang out in smaller groups quite frequently. Tonight, for instance, one of our classmates invited everyone for Trivia Night. It's really a close-knit atmosphere.

2) Whatever people say about the curriculum, whether they like the day-to-day structure of it... you finish the pre-clinical stuff in 18 months, and are on the wards for over two years. I believe we start clerkships in March. And our board scores are higher than the national average, and people go to good places for residency because our school is so respected and trains us so well.

We're also a short drive or train ride away from DC, without having to deal with the crime or noise or whatever of a big city.

 

[HakunaMatata22]

Hey guys-
I was lucky enough to have received an interview invite this week, however, I'm having a hard time justifying the time/cost associated with the travel. As I've already been accepted to a few schools, I'm looking for things that make UVa different from other places or other reasons to attend this interview. Thanks for any responses!

Congrats crixx! Here are my two cents...

First and foremost, compared to the rest of the interview trail, the lunch you get at UVa is BY FAR the best I ever had. Secondly, what really attracts me to the school is the enthusiasm I felt from the faculty and the students. Everyone was genuinely excited to be studying/working at UVa and it truly showed. They have excellent Step 1 averages, and with their new curriculum, the pre-clinical years are shortened to eighteen months, thus more time for third-year rotations. This is my top choice so far from schools I've been accepted to. Did I mention the facilities are all new and top notch? The simulation center blew me away. All in all, I'm very excited to attend second look to have another chance to talk to the students and to see the curriculum, but I'm ecstatic to have an acceptance to one of the top 25 schools in the country.

Oh, last thing! You have the ability to take a year off and do research without paying tuition. That was huge for me.

That's all I've got for now... Feel free to pick my brain if you'd like! Either here or in class next week 😉

 

[wanderer]

Congrats crixx! Here are my two cents...

First and foremost, compared to the rest of the interview trail, the lunch you get at UVa is BY FAR I ever had. Secondly, what really attracts me to the school is the enthusiasm I felt from the faculty and the students. Everyone was genuinely excited to be studying/working at UVa and it truly showed. They have excellent Step 1 averages, and with their new curriculum, the pre-clinical years are shortened to eighteen months, thus more time for third-year rotations. This is my top choice so far from schools I've been accepted to. Did I mention the facilities are all new and top notch? The simulation center blew me away. All in all, I'm very excited to attend second look to have another chance to talk to the students and to see the curriculum, but I'm ecstatic to have an acceptance to one of the top 25 schools in the country.

Oh, last thing! You have the ability to take a year off and do research without paying tuition. That was huge for me.

That's all I've got for now... Feel free to pick my brain if you'd like! Either here or in class next week 😉

Haha yea. I remember the dessert was amazing.

 

[dancer89]

have they said when second look is yet?

 

[Steeler7588]

I'm looking for things that make UVa different from other places or other reasons to attend this interview.

Here are some key characteristics that you can use to differentiate UVa (and medical schools in general):

- condensed 1.5 year pre-clinicals
Very few schools have condensed curricula, with Duke (1 year pre-clinicals), Emory, Penn, Columbia, and NYU (all 1.5 years) coming to mind. I think Johns Hopkins is 1.5 years as well (not sure), and there might be a few other schools I'm unaware of. We're different from a lot of these similar schools in that UVa has no research requirement - Duke (research or degree), Emory (must do 5 months), and Penn (no minimum time requirement, I think) required students to do something. UVa is fine with students using their extra months just for medical electives or whatever.

- P/F for years 1, 2, and 4; H/HP/P/F for year 3 of core clinicals
P/F is amazing. Some schools switch from P/F after only a semester, so to have it for three out of our four years is nice. I think the only schools that are P/F all four years are Stanford and Yale.

- flexible 48 hour window for taking assessments
This is a aspect of our new curriculum. Mount Sinai does this, I'm not sure if there are any other schools that do.

- 20* weeks of away rotations during year 3
Speaking on the current system, students spend an average of 20 weeks away at sites like Fairfax, Roanoke, and Salem. We're given housing arrangements, which are sometimes close to or inside the hospital. Students with families or other relevant reasons can be exempt from this.
*This might change to be less time away from Charlottesville, starting with our class, but nothing is definite yet.

There are of course other factors that I feel are unique, but these are more subjective and I know many other schools/students give the same pitches (our faculty are so responsive, our class is so friendly and supportive, etc.).

However, these are some pretty concrete factors that separate a lot of medical schools, and some of them might not be appealing to all of you. My college roommate didn't want a condensed curriculum, and away rotations are probably a trade-off for a lot of people (sometimes living in more 'country' areas vs. having more autonomy in the hospital), myself included.

I remember the dessert was amazing.

Best creme brulee ever.

 

[mvenus929]

First and foremost, compared to the rest of the interview trail, the lunch you get at UVa is BY FAR the best I ever had.

I'm pretty sure I heard that they're renovating the building, so that place is closed. Not sure what the interviewees are eating instead, but they're eating in the student lounge. Kinda weird to walk in after class and see people in there already.

 

[afob100]

Haha yea. I remember the dessert was amazing.

Chocolate cheesecake...mmmmmmmm. That **** was HUGE. Loved it!

 

[mgUCD]

I had the cheesecake....It was fantastic. Now I am starting to wonder if UVa is my top choice just because I want more of that cheesecake. Nah... UVa is awesome! The people were fantastic, the administration seemed solid and look at the way students passionately defend their school. That says a lot!

 

[mvenus929]

If anyone wants to live in a house next year (as opposed to an apartment), my place is going to be rented out again next year starting July 1. If you're interested, send me a PM.

 

[dcjpitt]

Just got an interview invite this afternoon! I wasn't expecting to get one at this point.

 

[dashwood]

accepted!