2012-2013 University of Pennsylvania (Perelman) Application Thread

[seeinghowitgoes]

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When Perelman asks about rewards from organizations, does being invited to be a member of the national honor society Delta Epsilon Sigma count?

I think you can put whatever you'd like down. I imagine they are looking for Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Fulbright nominees/winners, but other honor societies are probably better than nothing.

 

[pr2]

For those who currently attend Perelman, is it true that MS1's have unscheduled afternoons to do various things (i.e. community service, research, etc.)?

And is that something that is greatly appreciated/significantly taken advantage of by current med students?

 

[pr2]

I think you can put whatever you'd like down. I imagine they are looking for Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Fulbright nominees/winners, but other honor societies are probably better than nothing.

Don't forget Goldwater! 🙂

 

[protonate]

Complete as of this morning. They sent me an email, and it looks like they automatically resolved the FAP thing...

Sent from my X10i using SDN Mobile

Sounds good. Good luck!

 

[protonate]

For those who currently attend Perelman, is it true that MS1's have unscheduled afternoons to do various things (i.e. community service, research, etc.)?

And is that something that is greatly appreciated/significantly taken advantage of by current med students?

There are 3 unscheduled afternoons a week. The other 2 are for things like learning how to take a physical, standardized patients, etc... Students can take free classes (1 of the advantages of being next to an undergraduate campus), volunteer, do research, or basically do anything they want on those afternoons.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Don't forget Goldwater! 🙂

Excuse me, you're right haha.

The reason I mention those awards specifically (with the addition of the Goldwater) is because they are standardized. A lot of honor societies base things on GPA, etc, which vary by the competitiveness of your undergrad institution, etc. In the end, putting something there is probably better than nothing, but I imagine they are going to know about the name-brand awards.

Actually, this brings up another question I've had. What do you guys thing the value of having won or having been nominated for those major national awards (Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Fulbright, Goldwater, Gates-Caimbridge, Churchill) has on the med admissions process anyway?

 

[weezynation]

Excuse me, you're right haha.

The reason I mention those awards specifically (with the addition of the Goldwater) is because they are standardized. A lot of honor societies base things on GPA, etc, which vary by the competitiveness of your undergrad institution, etc. In the end, putting something there is probably better than nothing, but I imagine they are going to know about the name-brand awards.

Actually, this brings up another question I've had. What do you guys thing the value of having won or having been nominated for those major national awards (Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Fulbright, Goldwater, Gates-Caimbridge, Churchill) has on the med admissions process anyway?

It's got to be a huge plus. A great deal of getting accepted is about standing out from other applicants. Very few people receive these awards so it make them unique.

 

[DCSB6]

Should global experiences only be from college years? I have a challenge essay on a month I spent overseas as a minor, not sure if this is applicable.

 

[weezynation]

Should global experiences only be from college years? I have a challenge essay on a month I spent overseas as a minor, not sure if this is applicable.

Typically it's college and after, but give them a call on Monday and see if they will allow it. It can't hurt to ask and if they say yes, I'm sure it will probably be a positive for your application.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Should global experiences only be from college years? I have a challenge essay on a month I spent overseas as a minor, not sure if this is applicable.

I always judge whether or not the activity is college-level or not, and if it is, then I included it in AMCAS/on secondaries.

For example, if somebody presented research in high school at some legitimate medical conference, I would mentioned it. If somebody won some award for which only high schoolers are eligible, then I wouldn't mention it.

While calling is probably the best, if you include the experience and they don't care about previous activities, they aren't going to hold it against you, they'll probably just ignore it.

 

[malicious1116]

So is it an issue of feeling there will be inadequate recruitment of URMs by broadening the definition of diversity or an issue of not enough support for the current and future UPenn URM students? Or both?

The latter

 

[Doctor Strange]

What the heck... I got snail mail from Penn... Schools still send stuff by USPS?

 

[mnbmen]

It's got to be a huge plus. A great deal of getting accepted is about standing out from other applicants. Very few people receive these awards so it make them unique.

I'm not sure but I would be careful about putting down Goldwater. When you apply for it they specifically say that it is not for people planning on practicing medicine. So you better either be able to explain why you changed your mind, because otherwise you lied to the Goldwater committee.

 

[weezynation]

I'm not sure but I would be careful about putting down Goldwater. When you apply for it they specifically say that it is not for people planning on practicing medicine. So you better either be able to explain why you changed your mind, because otherwise you lied to the Goldwater committee.

Good point. I did not know that.

 

[TipToad]

Goldwaters usually go for the MD/PhD. My friend who got the Goldwater last year ended up at JHopkins MD/PhD.

It's a good thing. MD is a different story, though.

 

[thevidrohi]

I'm not sure but I would be careful about putting down Goldwater. When you apply for it they specifically say that it is not for people planning on practicing medicine. So you better either be able to explain why you changed your mind, because otherwise you lied to the Goldwater committee.

I wouldn't go that far. You can be MD-only and still be committed to conducting great research. (In fact, you can win the Goldwater as MD-only, though it requires strong justification). For research-heavy schools like Penn, demonstrating that you're among the cream of the crop in science/engineering (by way of the Goldwater) can only be a plus.

 

[aps91]

Please explain your reasons for applying to the Perelman School of Medicine and limit your response to 1,000 characters.

Good luck to everyone applying!

Is the prompt different for MD/PhD Applicants?

 

[skiing]

Is the prompt different for MD/PhD Applicants?

It is the same, but you also have to choose your intended field of interest from a checklist and include keywords for your planned field of study.

 

[pr2]

I'm not sure but I would be careful about putting down Goldwater. When you apply for it they specifically say that it is not for people planning on practicing medicine. So you better either be able to explain why you changed your mind, because otherwise you lied to the Goldwater committee.

That is not true at all. The Goldwater is not a binding contract to enter into an MD/PhD career; it is simply an award given to individuals who have a demonstrated excellence in research and who, at the time, may have been strongly considering an MD/PhD career. Countless numbers of people who win the Goldwater enter into an MD career; it is really the only national award that pre-meds can qualify for short of having to go to the UK for Rhodes or Marshall.

 

[justhanging]

Has anyone had problems submitting the secondary???

When I submit I get an error:

Error Message


Application has encountered an unexpected error. Administrators have been notified of this error. Please close this window and start over again.

 

[NCPremed]

Has anyone had problems submitting the secondary???

When I submit I get an error:

Error Message


Application has encountered an unexpected error. Administrators have been notified of this error. Please close this window and start over again.

+1

I encountered the same error a couple hours ago. Hopefully they will get it sorted out tomorrow.

 

[justhanging]

Well glad to know I'm not the only one.

 

[thevidrohi]

That is not true at all. The Goldwater is not a binding contract to enter into an MD/PhD career; it is simply an award given to individuals who have a demonstrated excellence in research and who, at the time, may have been strongly considering an MD/PhD career. Countless numbers of people who win the Goldwater enter into an MD career; it is really the only national award that pre-meds can qualify for short of having to go to the UK for Rhodes or Marshall.

That and the Truman.

 

[amonymous]

Hey guys, does anyone know how to send updates to your application? I couldn't find any info on this in the instructions online.

 

[NeuroKidd]

Hey guys, does anyone know how to send updates to your application? I couldn't find any info on this in the instructions online.

There should be a link for you to do that through the Penn Portal website thing? If not you can call and ask!

 

[jm2013]

Did anyone receive either a receipt of payment or a confirmation email once their application was complete? I haven't received either and was complete as of the end of last week...

 

[6svette]

Did anyone receive either a receipt of payment or a confirmation email once their application was complete? I haven't received either and was complete as of the end of last week...

Nothing here

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using SDN Mobile

 

[Narmerguy]

I wouldn't go that far. You can be MD-only and still be committed to conducting great research. (In fact, you can win the Goldwater as MD-only, though it requires strong justification). For research-heavy schools like Penn, demonstrating that you're among the cream of the crop in science/engineering (by way of the Goldwater) can only be a plus.

That is not true at all. The Goldwater is not a binding contract to enter into an MD/PhD career; it is simply an award given to individuals who have a demonstrated excellence in research and who, at the time, may have been strongly considering an MD/PhD career. Countless numbers of people who win the Goldwater enter into an MD career; it is really the only national award that pre-meds can qualify for short of having to go to the UK for Rhodes or Marshall.

This is very dangerous. Yes, they will not enforce that you pursue an MD/PhD, but they make it quite clear that this scholarship is for people who intend to pursue research careers in the math and sciences. Knowingly applying for one with the intention of not actually pursuing your stated program would be seriously unethical. It makes sense given that the entire point of the program is to entice/fund students to go into the math & sciences despite their low levels of pay compared to other programs like an MD.

Many, such as myself, mistakenly think that this means that one must get an MD/PhD to be eligible. However, they do not require that you pursue an MD/PhD. Their statement is:

Students who plan to study medicine are eligible for a Goldwater Scholarship only if they plan a research career rather than a career as a medical doctor in a private practice.

I actually turned down my school's nomination for the Goldwater because I couldn't decide at the time if I was seriously committed to getting an MD/PhD. I was very irritated when I realized that the requirement was only that I had to be committed to doing research as my career, which I've always known I would do. Oh well...

That and the Truman.

I think very recently the Truman has instituted a new policy that requires you to pay them back their money if you do not follow through with your public service/policy commitments.

 

[NeuroKidd]

Students who plan to study medicine are eligible for a Goldwater Scholarship only if they plan a research career rather than a career as a medical doctor in a private practice.

A lot of people go into academic medicine, which is covered by this statement. I don't see anything wrong with listing Goldwater and think we all need to calm down and take some Teamocil.

 

[neurowriter]

Is travel a "global activity" or do they only mean more structured programs?

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

This is very dangerous. Yes, they will not enforce that you pursue an MD/PhD, but they make it quite clear that this scholarship is for people who intend to pursue research careers in the math and sciences. Knowingly applying for one with the intention of not actually pursuing your stated program would be seriously unethical. It makes sense given that the entire point of the program is to entice/fund students to go into the math & sciences despite their low levels of pay compared to other programs like an MD.

Many, such as myself, mistakenly think that this means that one must get an MD/PhD to be eligible. However, they do not require that you pursue an MD/PhD. Their statement is:



I actually turned down my school's nomination for the Goldwater because I couldn't decide at the time if I was seriously committed to getting an MD/PhD. I was very irritated when I realized that the requirement was only that I had to be committed to doing research as my career, which I've always known I would do. Oh well...



I think very recently the Truman has instituted a new policy that requires you to pay them back their money if you do not follow through with your public service/policy commitments.

Residency counts as fulfilling the public service requirement for the Truman, and thus since everybody is going to be doing at least three years of residency, this requirement would be easily fulfilled if you got the award. Actually, it seems easier to fill the requirement if you are going into medicine than if you go into any other field, because you just have to do what you normally would be doing anyway lol.

*However, before making that argument to your friends, do note that what I said is hearsay*

 

[wagmanager]

just applied yesterday and received secondary today. It was my understanding that if you answered "yes" to any of those questions ,like, Have you received any award ? etc that a little box would open up to allow you to explain. However that is not happening in my case. Has anyone else encountered this problem ?

 

[pr2]

A lot of people go into academic medicine, which is covered by this statement. I don't see anything wrong with listing Goldwater and think we all need to calm down and take some Teamocil.

This.^
Also @Narmerguy, I completely understand what you're saying. I apologize if my statement sounded a little trite, I didn't mean to sound argumentative. 🙂

Also I didn't mean to say imply MD-only individuals should cheat the system and still apply for the Goldwater under an MD/PhD designation. If you are intentionally applying for Goldwater knowing that you will not pursue an MD/PhD, then I agree: it is 100% unethical and would be incredibly dangerous to show to an admissions committee.

However, that's not to say that all people who are applying MD-only as Goldwater Scholars didn't consider the prospect of an MD/PhD. Many individuals do honestly change their minds. In my very case, I spent this summer during the application cycle working out of a translational research lab for osteosarcoma. The PI was an MD/PhD and there were several MSTP students in the lab. Although everyone was gun-ho about research, no one seemed to pursue any clinical time. That is what disappointed me about the MD/PhD degree, so much so that I switched the majority of my applications from MSTP to MD-only on my AMCAS and called all the schools to inform them of the switch. As long as you are genuine about your intentions and show that you did at one point consider it, then it is not unethical; it's just you trying to find out what you want from life. 😀

 

[MelMelisqueen]

A lot of people go into academic medicine, which is covered by this statement. I don't see anything wrong with listing Goldwater and think we all need to calm down and take some Teamocil.

there's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

 

[Narmerguy]

This.^
Also @Narmerguy, I completely understand what you're saying. I apologize if my statement sounded a little trite, I didn't mean to sound argumentative. 🙂

Also I didn't mean to say imply MD-only individuals should cheat the system and still apply for the Goldwater under an MD/PhD designation. If you are intentionally applying for Goldwater knowing that you will not pursue an MD/PhD, then I agree: it is 100% unethical and would be incredibly dangerous to show to an admissions committee.

However, that's not to say that all people who are applying MD-only as Goldwater Scholars didn't consider the prospect of an MD/PhD. Many individuals do honestly change their minds. In my very case, I spent this summer during the application cycle working out of a translational research lab for osteosarcoma. The PI was an MD/PhD and there were several MSTP students in the lab. Although everyone was gun-ho about research, no one seemed to pursue any clinical time. That is what disappointed me about the MD/PhD degree, so much so that I switched the majority of my applications from MSTP to MD-only on my AMCAS and called all the schools to inform them of the switch. As long as you are genuine about your intentions and show that you did at one point consider it, then it is not unethical; it's just you trying to find out what you want from life. 😀

I completely understand 👍 I was more concerned with a others not getting the wrong idea about what are appropriate/inappropriate reasons to apply for the award since it's a great honor.

 

[PreMedGirl88]

nevermind - question answered 🙂.

 

[NewYorker9]

any idea when they start handing out interview invites?

 

[yellowfish]

any idea when they start handing out interview invites?

Last year the first batch went out 8/30. Seems like this is going to be a pretty quiet thread until then 🙂

 

[Tanstripe]

So for global experiences... if all our global experiences are listed in the AMCAS, can we simply copy it over, and expand it a tad? Or would that be seen as wrong?

 

[An MD Hopeful]

So for global experiences... if all our global experiences are listed in the AMCAS, can we simply copy it over, and expand it a tad? Or would that be seen as wrong?

I'd like to know this too. Is it okay if we just list the experiences, or should we expand upon them?

 

[Amphoterism]

For this part: "Are there any special, unique, personal, or challenging circumstances that you would like to share with the Committee on Admissions (siblings/relatives at Penn, applying as a couple, educational environment, culture, ethnicity, etc.)"

Uh. Well I can think of some BS things that make me sort of special, but do they really want a response unless it's something extraordinary? Leaving this blank would make me feel weird, but I don't want to over-exaggerate the importance of something relatively bland like being 1st gen on my mother's side or having been in ecology.

 

[OrangeJuice11]

For this part: "Are there any special, unique, personal, or challenging circumstances that you would like to share with the Committee on Admissions (siblings/relatives at Penn, applying as a couple, educational environment, culture, ethnicity, etc.)"

Uh. Well I can think of some BS things that make me sort of special, but do they really want a response unless it's something extraordinary? Leaving this blank would make me feel weird, but I don't want to over-exaggerate the importance of something relatively bland like being 1st gen on my mother's side or having been in ecology.

I took this question as is there any special consideration that your application should be given due to your situation in life, i.e. applying as a couple and wanting to stay with your significant other...

 

[Tanstripe]

I'd like to know this too. Is it okay if we just list the experiences, or should we expand upon them?

Called them on this today -- basically, if we already listed it, you can go ahead and list it again with whatever you wish. Very open.

 

[Donald Blake MD]

Any one know if they have handed out any rejections at this point?

 

[idontcaureuknow]

Any one know if they have handed out any rejections at this point?

Highly unlikely. Last year their policy was to wait until interview season to conclude before officially rejecting anyone. And those of us who were rejected already knew it was coming. The email basically stated "since you have not received an interview, and we are done interviewing applicants, we decided to let you know you are rejected"

However before this happened there was the hold status of doom. But since they haven't even started giving out II's yet, I don't think you have any clue. So just chillax and wait.

 

[eggs13]

Question for current students:
Can med students take undergrad courses? I know that some other Ivies (Yale and Columbia off the top of my head) let their med students do it.

not a current student, but when I was doing some reading up on the school, I did come across this. yes, you can take undergrad classes.

 

[NeuroKidd]

Question for current students:
Can med students take undergrad courses? I know that some other Ivies (Yale and Columbia off the top of my head) let their med students do it.

Yes, you can. We get 3 free classes anywhere in the University.

 

[Tots]

Interview Invite! End of Sept./Early Oct. Dates available.

 

[NeuroKidd]

Interview Invite! End of Sept./Early Oct. Dates available.

Awesome! Congrats!

 

[Classof2013PreM]

Interview invite as well- so excited to revisit UPenn after living on campus last summer!