2015-2016 Columbia University College of P&S Application Thread

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avgn said:
To me, "lucky" implies "for no reason or a reason that is unknown." For me, the only "unknown" factor here is what sort of composition the school is aiming for. Everything else is out in the open, as you said, with diversity, career path, leadership, etc. as clear criteria. So in my mind, it's not that random. It's like giving a chubby kid some chocolate cake – we know what they want, just not how much of it they want. Arbitrarily, I thus wind down the "lucky" factor to like 15-20% max.
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Idk I see some people get in with 3.5 GPA and 34 MCAT with decent EC's, but then people with a 3.9 gpa and 36 MCAT with a lot of research don't get in
 
Luck, in this instance, probably has to do more with the individuals screening/reviewing your application - those who might quickly pass your application over. Did they have a bad day? How much do they hate the phrase "XYZ sparked my interest in genetic research"? Maybe they skipped their second coffee and sat in traffic all day just to get home and read an application that might appear normal on any other day, but today, it's the bane of their existence.

Of course, once you make it past the initial review, the AdCom will holistically review everything during meetings and such and 'luck' becomes less of a factor. I believe LizzyM has alluded to the ambiguity between initial screeners & reviewers.
 
AlphaBeta<3 said:
Idk I see some people get in with 3.5 GPA and 34 MCAT with decent EC's, but then people with a 3.9 gpa and 36 MCAT with a lot of research don't get in
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I think there's a common misconception that if we (premeds) don't understand it, then it must be random. We are not in a position to know anything as applicants; that does not mean the process is random. It simply means that we do. not. know. None of us can know as much about another applicant than the committee knows. We do not have anything even remotely close to complete information. The information asymmetry inherent in the process is astounding. That's all I'm saying.

@mimelim
 
HarryH00d said:
Luck, in this instance, probably has to do more with the individuals screening/reviewing your application - those who might quickly pass your application over. Did they have a bad day? How much do they hate the phrase "XYZ sparked my interest in genetic research"? Maybe they skipped their second coffee and sat in traffic all day just to get home and read an application that might appear normal on any other day, but today, it's the bane of their existence.

Of course, once you make it past the initial review, the AdCom will holistically review everything during meetings and such and 'luck' becomes less of a factor. I believe LizzyM has alluded to the ambiguity between initial screeners & reviewers.
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I agree, but isn't the point of having multiple screeners for IIs exactly to counteract these effects? Again, I think the odds that 2-3 reviewers all have random nitpicks or bad days with one application is pretty low. @LizzyM for more insight?
 
HarryH00d said:
Luck, in this instance, probably has to do more with the individuals screening/reviewing your application - those who might quickly pass your application over. Did they have a bad day? How much do they hate the phrase "XYZ sparked my interest in genetic research"? Maybe they skipped their second coffee and sat in traffic all day just to get home and read an application that might appear normal on any other day, but today, it's the bane of their existence.

Of course, once you make it past the initial review, the AdCom will holistically review everything during meetings and such and 'luck' becomes less of a factor. I believe LizzyM has alluded to the ambiguity between initial screeners & reviewers.
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I think you are underestimating their ability to leave out bias that may result from a bad day. Not saying it's perfect, but doubt it's random to the level you are describing.
 
I think you're really underestimating what it's like to read application after application after application...on top of whatever else you have going on in your life. I'm sure that multiple screeners will pick up on similar nuances.

Also...lol at tagging LizzyM here... Because they really want to chime in on a Sunday afternoon, or any other day.
 
HarryH00d said:
I think you're really underestimating what it's like to read application after application after application...on top of whatever else you have going on in your life. I'm sure that multiple screeners will pick up on similar nuances.

Also...lol at tagging LizzyM here... Because they really want to chime in on a Sunday afternoon, or any other day.
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You're not an Adcom so I don't think any of us are qualified to say what it's like to read application after application other than based on pure speculation...
But I do agree that having multiple readers helps further eliminate bias
 
No - but I have been involved in several hiring processes at the Fortune 500 company I work for.

And I have formulated much of my opinions on those experiences combined with the insight posted on these threads over the years (from the likes of AdComs and medical students involved in the process). Hell, go do some research - there's plenty of articles available through simple google searches where actual adcoms discuss their experiences.

So pure speculation? No. Rather, real life experience + opinions of others + google.
 
Tell me more about your Fortune 500 company

Oh wait, we're not comparing? 🤣

Deja vu huh, Harry
 
avgn said:
Tell me more about your Fortune 500 company

Oh wait, we're not comparing? 🤣

Deja vu huh, Harry
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You randomly chiming in to mention that you went to an Ivy League school versus me validating my opinion about application processes is hardly Deja Vu.

I will do you the solid of not actually quoting all the times you've mentioned it either.
 
avgn said:
Tell me more about your Fortune 500 company

Oh wait, we're not comparing? 🤣

Deja vu huh, Harry
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And FYI - Walmart is a Fortune 500 company. For all you know, I could be the manager of shopping cart corralling at my local Walmart, Anytown, USA.

But I suppose you were more excited about trying to call me out.
 
HarryH00d said:
You randomly chiming in to mention that you went to an Ivy League school versus me validating my opinion about application processes is hardly Deja Vu.
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I'm not the type to argue on an anonymous forum but I only ever mentioned it here in response to @WedgeDawg's silly post about acceptances and elsewhere when someone asked where we were from. That is not "randomly chiming in"

Also, I never said I went to an Ivy. For all you know, I went to a "top 10" school in Canada.
 
HarryH00d said:
And FYI - Walmart is a Fortune 500 company. For all you know, I could be the manager of shopping cart corralling at my local Walmart, Anytown, USA.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with working at Walmart. Making employment decisions there is just as good as any other F500 shop.
 
onceawolverine said:
To be honest, I'm uncertain of the right answer for you. I came straight out of college, so all my activities were "collegiate," whether or not they were actually directly affiliated with the university.

Depending on whether you're a multi-gap year applicant or a straight-outta-college applicant, your answer will likely be different. Keep in mind that this question is clearly (imo) trying to get at whether you'd be an active member in P&S clubs or not.
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I was wondering about this as well. Do they want me just to list the names of the clubs/activities I participated in during college? Or just the type of activity (community service, hospital volunteering, etc.)? Because all of it is described in the AMCAS primary. I only had enough characters to list just the names for undergraduate, but I also have some activities from a year I took some classes after I graduated, and from my Masters program as well. Do they only want undergrad?
 
Yeah I'm done derailing
 
Grapesongrapes said:
What did you all write about for the urban question?
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You should work on finding your own topics to write about 😉
haha jk jk. My challenges were kinda personal, would rather not share, but look in the thread and last year's Columbia's thread for plenty of responses!
Jody+Tinkles said:
I was wondering about this as well. Do they want me just to list the names of the clubs/activities I participated in during college? Or just the type of activity (community service, hospital volunteering, etc.)? Because all of it is described in the AMCAS primary. I only had enough characters to list just the names for undergraduate, but I also have some activities from a year I took some classes after I graduated, and from my Masters program as well. Do they only want undergrad?
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They asked for collegiate, I would just write your college stuff. If you'd feel empty leaving out some stuff from after college, then put it in classic reverse chronological order and note that it's from your master's or whatever
 
HarryH00d said:
I think you're really underestimating what it's like to read application after application after application...on top of whatever else you have going on in your life. I'm sure that multiple screeners will pick up on similar nuances.

Also...lol at tagging LizzyM here... Because they really want to chime in on a Sunday afternoon, or any other day.
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Well, it's a quiet Sunday and I don't mind wading into the conversation... Most of us who make a first pass over an application and are expected to read every word find that we can't do more than about 2 per day and we are rarely assigned more than 30 over a 2 week period. I also know that if I'm in a cranky mood, I should not read that day. As I once told the dean of admissions, "when I have PMS, no one is getting into medical school." so it is important to be at one's best when doing reviews and I think that we all recognize that and adjust our schedules accordingly.

That said, the second reviewer's job is to review applications coming from a variety of first readers and to smooth out the inconsistencies between reviewers, look for things that the first reviewer reported to be missing from the application (i.e. no research experience, no volunteerism) and correct the record as needed.
 
LizzyM said:
Well, it's a quiet Sunday and I don't mind wading into the conversation... Most of us who make a first pass over an application and are expected to read every word find that we can't do more than about 2 per day and we are rarely assigned more than 30 over a 2 week period. I also know that if I'm in a cranky mood, I should not read that day. As I once told the dean of admissions, "when I have PMS, no one is getting into medical school." so it is important to be at one's best when doing reviews and I think that we all recognize that and adjust our schedules accordingly.

That said, the second reviewer's job is to review applications coming from a variety of first readers and to smooth out the inconsistencies between reviewers, look for things that the first reviewer reported to be missing from the application (i.e. no research experience, no volunteerism) and correct the record as needed.
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So is it two reviewers at your school and then IIs go out?
 
Jody+Tinkles said:
I was wondering about this as well. Do they want me just to list the names of the clubs/activities I participated in during college? Or just the type of activity (community service, hospital volunteering, etc.)? Because all of it is described in the AMCAS primary. I only had enough characters to list just the names for undergraduate, but I also have some activities from a year I took some classes after I graduated, and from my Masters program as well. Do they only want undergrad?
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When I applied, I included activities from my graduate school days. But there's likely no hard-and-fast rule.

And sorry to continue the tangent, but here's an article demonstrating a significant effect of weather on med school interview ratings (with a small effect size): Redelmeier & Baxter, 2009. I figure it's useful to be aware that folks (ourselves included!) are unknowingly (or knowingly, as LizzyM describes) susceptible to systematic biases in decision making. That's maybe particularly important for us to be aware of as future physicians given that we will soon be making important decisions on the reg. If you're interested, you can read loads more in Kahneman and Tversky's work.
 
LizzyM said:
Two reviewers and then the person responsible for sending interview invites makes the final cut before IIs go out.
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Ah ok. And I'm guessing the team of initial reviewers is pretty big then given the time sink?
 
avgn said:
Ah ok. And I'm guessing the team of initial reviewers is pretty big then given the time sink?
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Yes, both a large group and a long time. We work pretty solidly during college football season... starting off in late August and working steadily until early December with a lighter schedule through New Year.
 
MSTP applicants: How much did you all write in the "PhD Goals" section? 5000 characters is a lot, and even if we go by LizzyM's recommendation of not going below 45% of the word/character limit (hi, LizzyM) that's still like 400 words. Not sure if they actually want us to write that much.
 
LizzyM said:
Yes, both a large group and a long time. We work pretty solidly during college football season... starting off in late August and working steadily until early December with a lighter schedule through New Year.
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That's a great analogy! So peak season would be around Halloween I'm guessing?
 
neurotroph said:
MSTP applicants: How much did you all write in the "PhD Goals" section? 5000 characters is a lot, and even if we go by LizzyM's recommendation of not going below 45% of the word/character limit (hi, LizzyM) that's still like 400 words. Not sure if they actually want us to write that much.
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My response was ~200 words. I think short and sweet is better than lengthy and with tons of details. Considering they already have the rest of our AMCAS applications to read through, I doubt they are expecting anywhere near the 5000 char limit.
 
neurotroph said:
MSTP applicants: How much did you all write in the "PhD Goals" section? 5000 characters is a lot, and even if we go by LizzyM's recommendation of not going below 45% of the word/character limit (hi, LizzyM) that's still like 400 words. Not sure if they actually want us to write that much.
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Mine was around 400 words. I only tried to say things I hadn't already said in my MD/PhD essay.
 
I'm applying MD/PhD and there is no spot to upload a CV that everyone seems to be talking about? There is a field where I can enter a bunch of experiences but I don't have an upload CV (like from a PDF file) option. Any other MD/PhD applicants have the option to upload a PDF CV?
 
PhysicianScientist said:
I'm applying MD/PhD and there is no spot to upload a CV that everyone seems to be talking about? There is a field where I can enter a bunch of experiences but I don't have an upload CV (like from a PDF file) option. Any other MD/PhD applicants have the option to upload a PDF CV?
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MD/PhD applicants do not have this spot.
 
clueless192 said:
Just completed the (MSTP) secondary! Let the waiting game begin. Dun dun dun...
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Columbia's one of my top choices but I keep putting it off because of that ambiguous "PhD Goals" section. What am I doingggggg
 
Did anyone have trouble uploading their resume? When I upload, it says: "Error: String or binary data would be truncated. The statement has been terminated."
 
sunshine02 said:
Did anyone have trouble uploading their resume? When I upload, it says: "Error: String or binary data would be truncated. The statement has been terminated."
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Are you trying to upload a Word document?
Make it a PDF and shorten the name
 
So I held off on this secondary for longer than I should have considering how easy it was to complete... or am I missing something...?

I'm foregoing the "anything to add?" and CV stuff because it would add nothing except wasting 10 minutes of a reviewers time.
 
so i'm guessing we haven't reached a consensus about the collegiate extracurriculars... right?
 
biol101 said:
This is getting way more importance than it deserves, seriously. Its like 400 characters, you can't really mess it up. Just put in everything you did during college. THIS WONT MAKE OR BREAK YOUR APPLICATION GUYS.
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But that's like 7.5% of the PS! Every letter needs to be written to perfection for a top 10.

Lol srsly if your secondary is being held up because of this questions, not a good move.
 
BuckinghamPalace said:
Hoping for IIs to start rolling out soon!
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Me too. I have one in NYC in a few weeks, and I'd really like to try and coordinate with Columbia but don't want to be THAT person emailing them before they even have started IIs.
 
starlite911 said:
You emailed them already? Even though Columbia hasn't begun granting II yet to my knowledge?
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Well my NYC interview is relatively soon so I figured the more advanced notice the better. I'm sure they're already reviewing applications, so I don't see why waiting longer would make a difference. Also, I don't think they publicly announce when they start granting interviews so we can't really be expected to know that, right?
 
But hey, for all I know, they immediately chucked my application into the incinerator upon receipt of my email.
 
I'm with you guys, IIs @ 2 NYC schools on the week of Labor Day. It'd be nice to know before then, but I'm afraid to email. Dang tho, there are so many med schools in NYC
 
Guys man up and tell them. This is not a big deal.

Also, they want you to upload the information in PDF form to the "Update" section of the secondary. Even if you send an email, they'll tell you to upload it separately and then you'll get a nice response once they see the uploaded file that they'll consider it. (Source: emailed them last week)
 
Hi guys!

Classes have started and we're all working like mad, but orientation week was an absolute blast and everyone here is awesome (and also it feels like everyone is smarter than I am which I think is a weird but pervasive feeling for most people here). You guys should all come here!

Best of luck everyone!
 
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