2015-2016 University of Michigan Application Thread

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Current UMich M1 here. After hearing all the controversy in school about this thread, I wanted to address a couple things hopefully provide an honest and frank perspective. Please note that I am just one data point.

There is definitely controversy right now regarding curriculum changes--anyone telling you otherwise is underestimating the magnitude of the problem. The administration has repeatedly made last-minute changes to the curriculum, which has resulted in poorly executed courses, assignments, and scheduling--which were not conveyed to us by Admissions or by our second look weekend (largely because the curriculum folks a) failed to communicate information to interested parties and b) had not yet even resolved their curricular plan for the academic year until our orientation). A reasonable proportion of my (M1) class is upset, and an alarming number of people I've talked to expressed that they would not matriculate to Michigan if they had the chance to redo their decision-making process. The most salient reason expressed is that the educational experience they are receiving is NOT what was advertised. I know that this has been a concern for the incoming M0 class, and Admissions is working hard to remedy this.

My perception of UMich strengths:

(1) Clinical training: according to Step 2 scores, our clinical program is as strong as Hopkins/UPenn/UCSF/etc. I can't comment firsthand, but I've heard such wonderful things from classmates and am excited to enter the wards.

(2) Paths of Excellence: although I didn't find the mandatory seminars for all M1's useful, I think it's great that students get to tailor their med school experience by picking a track, which offers career development, mentoring, and networking.

(3) Availability of mentors: there are tons of mentors excited to work with students. Although this probably isn't unique to UMich as a top 10 program, I have been blown away by the generosity of my professors and mentors. UMich tries really hard to give you access to potential mentors via a coach (through the doctoring program), the doctoring faculty, house leaders, etc. Research projects are abundant, assuming you have the time and interest to pursue them (probably more relevant for the incoming M0's class second year as first year will be crammed with all the basic science stuff).

My perception of weaknesses:

(1) Lack of administrative response to feedback: this has been a trope played out so many times in our class. Although some individual course directors, e.g. the doctoring course director, have been responsive, there seems to be a general lack of interest in student concerns, and more of an interest in implementing novel pedagogical techniques to "advance" the institution. What these really means is that while there are genuine problems with our curriculum, no action is currently being taken to actually remedy these issues--we just get talked at about how this is "for the best" and we're the "first school to implement a leadership curriculum" etc. This makes some students feel like the administration is pedantic and condescending.

(2) Specific problems with the curriculum:
  • ICE: while you will get to shadow the occasional practitioner (such as residents, PAs, NPs, and RNs), be prepared to shadow front desk clerks, etc. ICE placements vary widely in terms of student satisfaction--some students strike the goldmine, others not so much. Some students really enjoy this program--while I have had a handful of genuinely great experiences, I would argue that I could find my own experiences that capitalize on my personal interests which would be more efficient uses of my (limited) time.
  • Number of absolutely ridiculous assignments: we have so many required non-science reflections/essays/etc, and there doesn't seem to be an overarching review committee to determine the validity of each assignment. What I'm getting at here is that course directors (for courses such as leadership, pathway seminars, and other miscellaneous things that get crammed into our curriculum) have free reign to assign "check-off" assignments that needlessly waste time. This is a MAJOR source of contention in our class right now--if you come for SLW, I would definitely ask students about this. We spend several hours per week on assignments or required experiences that don't foster actual learning, and it all adds up.
  • Step 1 placement: there's a lot of controversy over this. Some people are happy about the change, some people are alarmed, some people are totally ambivalent.
(3) Lack of advanced administrative planning: I've hinted at this already, but the administration wasn't finalizing what to do with our class until we already arrived on campus. This makes me wary about their ability to execute the new 1+3 curriculum.

(4) "The bulge": Current M0's will overlap with M1's on the wards. This isn't ideal for either class, but is admittedly unavoidable when changing the curriculum.

Here are my general thoughts regarding decisions (and these are just my perspectives):

(1) If UMich is the best school you got into (i.e. only top 10 or top 15), it is probably the best place to go--the UMich name carries weight, and the clinical training here is superb (although current M1's were told midway through their first semester that their clinical rotation time has been cut by 25% as incoming M0's will overlap with M1's on the wards--a problem currently being referred to as "the bulge").

(2) If you get into a comparably ranked school, and the financial burden is the same at both institutions, I would take a long and hard look at the curricula and figure out which school really resonates with you. Talk to students at the SLWs (do NOT rely solely on Admissions! they aren't living the reality of the institution)--and ask hard-hitting questions to multiple students.

(3) If you get into other top tier schools but the financial burden is less at UMich, I would attend both SLWs, then figure out what matters to you. If debt stresses you out or you want the financial flexibility to go into any specialty without worrying about pay, UMich could be the answer (I'm certainly not denying this). If one curriculum resonates more strongly with you over the other, give that credence in your decision making process.

--------------------------------------------
I don't know if these thoughts are helpful to you, but I just wanted to be honest. I received a lot of incorrect info when I was making my decision, and I wished someone had posted something like this for me. I'm only speaking from my personal experiences here.
 
Hi guys, I'm just going to repeat what I said before,
if you are an accepted student and interested in matriculating here, please reach out to a UMMS student come second look weekend and ask them their opinions in private. Some people love it, some hate it, some accept it, and many would likely matriculate again. Get your facts firsthand, not solely from a SDN thread.

Best of luck!
 
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UMichM1_anon said:
Current UMich M1 here. After hearing all the controversy in school about this thread, I wanted to address a couple things hopefully provide an honest and frank perspective. Please note that I am just one data point.

There is definitely controversy right now regarding curriculum changes--anyone telling you otherwise is underestimating the magnitude of the problem. The administration has repeatedly made last-minute changes to the curriculum, which has resulted in poorly executed courses, assignments, and scheduling--which were not conveyed to us by Admissions or by our second look weekend (largely because the curriculum folks a) failed to communicate information to interested parties and b) had not yet even resolved their curricular plan for the academic year until our orientation). A reasonable proportion of my (M1) class is upset, and an alarming number of people I've talked to expressed that they would not matriculate to Michigan if they had the chance to redo their decision-making process. The most salient reason expressed is that the educational experience they are receiving is NOT what was advertised. I know that this has been a concern for the incoming M0 class, and Admissions is working hard to remedy this.

My perception of UMich strengths:

(1) Clinical training: according to Step 2 scores, our clinical program is as strong as Hopkins/UPenn/UCSF/etc. I can't comment firsthand, but I've heard such wonderful things from classmates and am excited to enter the wards.

(2) Paths of Excellence: although I didn't find the mandatory seminars for all M1's useful, I think it's great that students get to tailor their med school experience by picking a track, which offers career development, mentoring, and networking.

(3) Availability of mentors: there are tons of mentors excited to work with students. Although this probably isn't unique to UMich as a top 10 program, I have been blown away by the generosity of my professors and mentors. UMich tries really hard to give you access to potential mentors via a coach (through the doctoring program), the doctoring faculty, house leaders, etc. Research projects are abundant, assuming you have the time and interest to pursue them (probably more relevant for the incoming M0's class second year as first year will be crammed with all the basic science stuff).

My perception of weaknesses:

(1) Lack of administrative response to feedback: this has been a trope played out so many times in our class. Although some individual course directors, e.g. the doctoring course director, have been responsive, there seems to be a general lack of interest in student concerns, and more of an interest in implementing novel pedagogical techniques to "advance" the institution. What these really means is that while there are genuine problems with our curriculum, no action is currently being taken to actually remedy these issues--we just get talked at about how this is "for the best" and we're the "first school to implement a leadership curriculum" etc. This makes some students feel like the administration is pedantic and condescending.

(2) Specific problems with the curriculum:
  • ICE: while you will get to shadow the occasional practitioner (such as residents, PAs, NPs, and RNs), be prepared to shadow front desk clerks, etc. ICE placements vary widely in terms of student satisfaction--some students strike the goldmine, others not so much. Some students really enjoy this program--while I have had a handful of genuinely great experiences, I would argue that I could find my own experiences that capitalize on my personal interests which would be more efficient uses of my (limited) time.
  • Number of absolutely ridiculous assignments: we have so many required non-science reflections/essays/etc, and there doesn't seem to be an overarching review committee to determine the validity of each assignment. What I'm getting at here is that course directors (for courses such as leadership, pathway seminars, and other miscellaneous things that get crammed into our curriculum) have free reign to assign "check-off" assignments that needlessly waste time. This is a MAJOR source of contention in our class right now--if you come for SLW, I would definitely ask students about this. We spend several hours per week on assignments or required experiences that don't foster actual learning, and it all adds up.
  • Step 1 placement: there's a lot of controversy over this. Some people are happy about the change, some people are alarmed, some people are totally ambivalent.
(3) Lack of advanced administrative planning: I've hinted at this already, but the administration wasn't finalizing what to do with our class until we already arrived on campus. This makes me wary about their ability to execute the new 1+3 curriculum.

(4) "The bulge": Current M0's will overlap with M1's on the wards. This isn't ideal for either class, but is admittedly unavoidable when changing the curriculum.

Here are my general thoughts regarding decisions (and these are just my perspectives):

(1) If UMich is the best school you got into (i.e. only top 10 or top 15), it is probably the best place to go--the UMich name carries weight, and the clinical training here is superb (although current M1's were told midway through their first semester that their clinical rotation time has been cut by 25% as incoming M0's will overlap with M1's on the wards--a problem currently being referred to as "the bulge").

(2) If you get into a comparably ranked school, and the financial burden is the same at both institutions, I would take a long and hard look at the curricula and figure out which school really resonates with you. Talk to students at the SLWs (do NOT rely solely on Admissions! they aren't living the reality of the institution)--and ask hard-hitting questions to multiple students.

(3) If you get into other top tier schools but the financial burden is less at UMich, I would attend both SLWs, then figure out what matters to you. If debt stresses you out or you want the financial flexibility to go into any specialty without worrying about pay, UMich could be the answer (I'm certainly not denying this). If one curriculum resonates more strongly with you over the other, give that credence in your decision making process.

--------------------------------------------
I don't know if these thoughts are helpful to you, but I just wanted to be honest. I received a lot of incorrect info when I was making my decision, and I wished someone had posted something like this for me. I'm only speaking from my personal experiences here.
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Another UMMS Student: I'm going to add there's a lot of truth to what the above person said as another M1. Class contention was super high within the first week of classes starting, but I think it's beginning to taper down now more as students have accepted there might not be much change, but I truly also believe that things have become a lot better and a lot more organized as we have started semester 2. There's honestly a lot more that can be added to the list of complaints, but there's also some really, really strong positives like shadowing opportunities, research opportunities, potential mentors, funding options, flexibility with curriculum etc that Michigan has as strong positives and that probably do not exist at other institutions. To add to the person above though in terms of issues, there's also pretty significant class segregation-- a number of people do not know each other even though we all have to be in the same building nearly every day. Some minority students also report different experiences than non-minority students. On the pro side, one of the Deans is rolling out a plan starting this year an upcoming 3 years plan to start addressing the many issues people of color and other minorities have at both the hospital and medical school. There's also been many student concerns over lack of communication from administration-- like we did not know that we did not have a standard 2 year curriculum (as we were told we would have) until it was almost November; springing something like that on students is pretty unprofessional. There's been lack of organization in how we are being taught different things (or in a number of cases, not taught), and considering how high of a reputation Michigan has for its education, I think this lack of organization in our teaching is pretty appalling and student dissatisfaction with certain lectures or sequences (i.e. renal) has been very high. I would also like to add that I have found most of my Path of Excellence and Leadership sessions to not really add to my learning, and many of my ICE experiences have been very, very subpar-- although I truly believe the persons in charge of that are working diligently to fix it and many very significant improvements were made this semester. I would also like to note though that the idea of UM student life being "great" by many students is a myth as medical school is hard everywhere you go, and Michigan is no different. For instance, you can easily look up a JAMA study conducted on UM Medical Students in 2009 and see that the prevalence of moderate-severe depression even then (when the curriculum-- I believe-- was a lot "lighter") was 14.3% amongst the general student body (link: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=186586).

Again, there are positives and negatives to every institution. I had several places that I wanted to attend instead of Michigan for medical school, and I appreciated people writing of their experiences on SDN, as that is frankly how I was able to finally decide which medical school I would matriculate to in the end, because Michigan had the least negatives by far on my list. Sure, the above list is a significant list of complaints, but a lot of these complaints are being worked on for incoming M1s, Michigan has a strong reputation it has withheld and will likely upkeep, and I do not believe the curriculum for the upcoming M1s will really be known until closer to July or August so no one can really speak as to what M1s will expect.
 
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I will not make it to SLW but I am beginning to be concerned about this school with all these posts. I am realistic that there are negatives in all med schools. I hope other M0s who visit SLW will post their experience and any new information they gather. Will continue to follow this thread with great interest...


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
 
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The problem with us who have been accepted is not that we necessarily "believe" anything about a school we might attend. But to what degree should we consider an opinion and how to reconcile vastly different opinions of people who attend the school currently. While the above two posts are probably the most critical opinions I have seen so far, I still have talked to people who attend UMMS who have a completely opposite take on the school. There are some pretty interesting (potentially concerning) points in the above posts, though, I will admit. I know some people will scream SLW is the solution to this conundrum, and while I agree to an extent, I also realize SLW is designed to attract candidates so the students present may not be as honest and critical of the flaws in the school. We are also trying to resolve a ton of subjectivity. For example, that study the poster submitted about the depression, I don't believe indicates that QofL at UMMS is a "myth". There are a ton of factors to consider before you can really use something like that as an indicator of what your own quality of life will be.
 
In my opinion, this issue almost needs its own thread and I would like to see current students engage in a dialogue over these issues. I realize SDN is highly unreliable, but I also suspect that due to anonymity, current students will have free reign to say whatever the feel about the school and will therefore reveal more subjective interpretations that can give prospective student material to verify on SLW.
 
I could not disagree more with some of the above points made by my classmates (but totally respect their thoughts and glad there is a discussion!!) and it just shows that in a class of 170 students you are going to get a wide variety of perspectives and opinions. For example, (1) lack of administrative feedback. The administration cannot change everything, literally no school will or can. But I can point to numerous examples where they rapidly listened to our requests. For example, we are piloting the new Chief Concern Course and the first week had some major bumps. What happened? They had a focus group and listened to our requests (later start times, earlier end times, more interesting cases, etc.). They made literally every single change we asked for and every student I have spoken to thought it was great when we had our second week. Here is another. Renal sequence was not going well. All the students were making that known to our curriculum reps. What happened? They made the final OPEN BOOK to appease everyone. I am not sure how much more responsive you can get than that.

In addition, quoting a 2009 study about depression and then relating that to our current quality of life is about as reliable as listening to politicians. We have flex time quizzing, no ranking, and true pass/fail. I am not sure what else people want when it comes to work-life balance. Of course medical school is hard and I bet if you surveyed every single school in the country you would find a % of depressed students. However, correlation does not mean causation. There is no free lunch in life. That said I do everything I did before medical school (read, exercise, watch tv, hang with friends, travel, etc)

At the end of the day go with your own personal gut/feel for any school. Your decision should not be based on our opinions. This thread has shown that people within a class can have a 180 degree varying view of the same exact classes, administration, etc. I just keep speaking up because we sometimes forget that there are two sides to every story especially in online forums.
 
BradyC said:
I could not disagree more with some of the above points made by my classmates (but totally respect their thoughts and glad there is a discussion!!) and it just shows that in a class of 170 students you are going to get a wide variety of perspectives and opinions. For example, (1) lack of administrative feedback. The administration cannot change everything, literally no school will or can. But I can point to numerous examples where they rapidly listened to our requests. For example, we are piloting the new Chief Concern Course and the first week had some major bumps. What happened? They had a focus group and listened to our requests (later start times, earlier end times, more interesting cases, etc.). They made literally every single change we asked for and every student I have spoken to thought it was great when we had our second week. Here is another. Renal sequence was not going well. All the students were making that known to our curriculum reps. What happened? They made the final OPEN BOOK to appease everyone. I am not sure how much more responsive you can get than that.

In addition, quoting a 2009 study about depression and then relating that to our current quality of life is about as reliable as listening to politicians. We have flex time quizzing, no ranking, and true pass/fail. I am not sure what else people want when it comes to work-life balance. Of course medical school is hard and I bet if you surveyed every single school in the country you would find a % of depressed students. However, correlation does not mean causation. There is no free lunch in life. That said I do everything I did before medical school (read, exercise, watch tv, hang with friends, travel, etc)

At the end of the day go with your own personal gut/feel for any school. Your decision should not be based on our opinions. This thread has shown that people within a class can have a 180 degree varying view of the same exact classes, administration, etc. I just keep speaking up because we sometimes forget that there are two sides to every story especially in online forums.
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This is exactly what us as accepted students need. One person gives a stance and then another person presents additional information that wasn't known. For example, we had no clue about the final in the Renal sequence! Also, I agree with you about the depression study that was a very weak argument. I'm a bit surprised a med student would carelessly construct an argument like that. First, the sample may not be a truly random sample, as it was self-selecting, like most surveys. So students could decide to enter or not. There could have been a ton of students who would have lowered that depression rate who didn't answer or didn't consider the survey worth their time (These might be the people more like BradyC). I didn't read the entire study, but I'm also not sure how the survey questions were worded. Finally, we are comparing two different points in time (as BradyC mentioned), which means you have to account for differences in the school that may cause the results to not be generalizable and only applicable to that point in time. A ton of changes could occur in 6 years. I would also argue about the response rate, but I understand this might be a tough argument. My point, though, is that for anyone reading this thread, please recognize the difference between facts, opinions, and misleading information and understand how to sort these things into your mental holding bin accordingly. Opinions shouldn't be disregarded but they also should not be integrated into the material that forms your belief system.

I've heard from so many people that go to the school, even aside from any special day such as an interview, tell me how surprising they found the quality of life to be.
 
Free411 said:
This is exactly what us as accepted students need. One person gives a stance and then another person presents additional information that wasn't known. For example, we had no clue about the final in the Renal sequence! Also, I agree with you about the depression study that was a very weak argument. I'm a bit surprised a med student would carelessly construct an argument like that. First, the sample may not be a truly random sample, as it was self-selecting, like most surveys. So students could decide to enter or not. There could have been a ton of students who would have lowered that depression rate who didn't answer or didn't consider the survey worth their time (These might be the people more like BradyC). I didn't read the entire study, but I'm also not sure how the survey questions were worded. Finally, we are comparing two different points in time (as BradyC mentioned), which means you have to account for differences in the school that may cause the results to not be generalizable and only applicable to that point in time. A ton of changes could occur in 6 years. I would also argue about the response rate, but I understand this might be a tough argument. My point, though, is that for anyone reading this thread, please recognize the difference between facts, opinions, and misleading information and understand how to sort these things into your mental holding bin accordingly. Opinions shouldn't be disregarded but they also should not be integrated into the material that forms your belief system.

I've heard from so many people that go to the school, even aside from any special day such as an interview, tell me how surprising they found the quality of life to be.
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This Renal Sequence seems to have been a problem for a couple of years. My brother is an M2, and had 2 exams that were open book last year (Renal was one, I can't remember the other). Seems like when a large contingent of student's complain, the course administrators are responsive.

Now, allowing open book exams seems a bit of a cop out to me, looks like they need to change the presentation/instructors. However, they don't let students sink or swim, IMHO.
 
BradyC said:
All the students were making that known to our curriculum reps. What happened? They made the final OPEN BOOK to appease everyone
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Just going to throw out there that had the renal sequence been taught correctly (and the instructor for the course been an actual renal prof, not a cardiologist notified 5 days before the course that he would be teaching us), the exam would not have been open book. Boards are not open book, and this (in my mind) was a demonstration of the lack of planning from the administration and was not a positive, but rather an alarming negative. Other schools have probably faced similar issues, but renal has been historically terrible at UMich and I'm surprised there hasn't been a change.

The responsiveness of the CCC course director was great (he's an amazing educator)--but I don't necessarily think this represents administrative action, as it was the course director who solicited our feedback and integrated it into his overhaul of the week. Again, I think his responsiveness was a positive for the course, but I'm just not sure it's an example of admin (i.e. Dean) responsiveness.

Anyway, I'm glad you're happy here (as are many classmates). Many classmates are also unhappy, and I think it is appropriate to express an opinion reflective of this discontentment on this forum. I think discrediting such opinions are unfair to the significant number of students who hold them. I have been open and honest about my opinions when prospective students have talked to me IRL, and have also told them (repeatedly) that there are many factors contributing to my perspective--some of which I won't talk about explicitly here because I'm uninterested in being identified by my classmates. Everyone's journey is unique, and everyone will find different pros and cons for each institution.
 
UMichM1_anon said:
Just going to throw out there that had the renal sequence been taught correctly (and the instructor for the course been an actual renal prof, not a cardiologist notified 5 days before the course that he would be teaching us), the exam would not have been open book. Boards are not open book, and this (in my mind) was a demonstration of the lack of planning from the administration and was not a positive, but rather an alarming negative. Other schools have probably faced similar issues, but renal has been historically terrible at UMich and I'm surprised there hasn't been a change.

The responsiveness of the CCC course director was great (he's an amazing educator)--but I don't necessarily think this represents administrative action, as it was the course director who solicited our feedback and integrated it into his overhaul of the week. Again, I think his responsiveness was a positive for the course, but I'm just not sure it's an example of admin (i.e. Dean) responsiveness.

Anyway, I'm glad you're happy here (as are many classmates). Many classmates are also unhappy, and I think it is appropriate to express an opinion reflective of this discontentment on this forum. I think discrediting such opinions are unfair to the significant number of students who hold them. I have been open and honest about my opinions when prospective students have talked to me IRL, and have also told them (repeatedly) that there are many factors contributing to my perspective--some of which I won't talk about explicitly here because I'm uninterested in being identified by my classmates. Everyone's journey is unique, and everyone will find different pros and cons for each institution.
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Interesting! Please keep contributing your opinion and anyone who holds contrary opinions please follow suit. This is the stuff we aren't told by students when we try to press them with tough questions in real time. BradyC any responses to the above quote? (I'm not trying to incite a conflict, but this is important as I am holding multiple acceptances to great programs. Of course my decision will not be based on anything presented here, but it gives me information that I can try to verify in real life)
 
UMichM1_anon said:
Number of absolutely ridiculous assignments: we have so many required non-science reflections/essays/etc, and there doesn't seem to be an overarching review committee to determine the validity of each assignment. What I'm getting at here is that course directors (for courses such as leadership, pathway seminars, and other miscellaneous things that get crammed into our curriculum) have free reign to assign "check-off" assignments that needlessly waste time. This is a MAJOR source of contention in our class right now--if you come for SLW, I would definitely ask students about this. We spend several hours per week on assignments or required experiences that don't foster actual learning, and it all adds up.
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This is really concerning.. can any other current students offer their perspective on this? I don't want to go to med school just to feel like a middle schooler again
 
Lots of school threads are reporting new curriculum challenges, I'll keep this updated as I run across posted items:

Harvard: Many said that early on the prep work required for the PBL sessions the following day included prep of 6-8 hours a night which was unfeasible; students let the administration know and soon the load was made much more manageable. I think they are tweaking continuously and monitoring the new curriculum closely so I wouldn't worry too much! I definitely got the sense that the students and administration had good ongoing feedback about the new curriculum.

Harvard: "If you liked high school more than college, you'll love this new curriculum. Remember the good ol' days of mandatory attendance, assigned seating, nightly homework, and never talking with people because they belonged to a different clique? If that's what you like, you'll love Pathways. Unfortunately, if you prefer to be treated as a adult - to choose when, where, and how you will get your work done, just as long as it gets done - perhaps this new curriculum is not for you."

Vanderbilt: M1-I actually am in the midst of studying for my first block exam; we had our free-response portion today, and the multiple-choice + practical portion tomorrow. I will stress this: the workload is HEAVY. A one-year preclinical curriculum is no joke, and you need to find time everyday 1) reviewing the day's lecture and 2) if possible, reviewing notes from a few weeks back. Our blocks are either 6 or 12 weeks, and you really feel as if you're going a hundred miles per hour every day. It's tough, but doable. Now I understand why VUSM places such a high premium on high-stat applicants; they want people who will excel in their condensed, new curriculum.
 
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No one freak out! I will respond to the above posts this evening post exam. Again, two sides to every story.
 
Some pretty salty M1s in here. If you can't figure out how to have a reasonable QOL as a preclinical student with flextime quizzing and unranked P/F I don't know what to tell you--you'd be really unhappy wherever you went and you're gonna have a bad time as a clinical student. That being said, glad to see some back and forth on these issues.
 
mcloaf said:
Some pretty salty M1s in here. If you can't figure out how to have a reasonable QOL as a preclinical student with flextime quizzing and unranked P/F I don't know what to tell you--you'd be really unhappy wherever you went and you're gonna have a bad time as a clinical student. That being said, glad to see some back and forth on these issues.
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It doesn't seem to me like the QOL is their major concern here. More so responsiveness of administration and some bumps in the road regarding curriculum changes. Either way, it'd be nice if we could not detract from either positive or negative opinions of the school, as I'm sure they are helpful insights to all who are considering this program.
 
Every kind of school in every kind of field has very disgruntled students. You will often find that these are the same people at each school. They often have valid points but there are always more people who shrug it off and keep working.
 
CarmenCygni said:
It doesn't seem to me like the QOL is their major concern here. More so responsiveness of administration and some bumps in the road regarding curriculum changes. Either way, it'd be nice if we could not detract from either positive or negative opinions of the school, as I'm sure they are helpful insights to all who are considering this program.
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Incidentally, you'll notice I didn't offer any commentary on the other curriculum concerns. Just a counterpoint to the poster saying that the description of UMMS as having a good QOL is a myth.
 
mcloaf said:
Incidentally, you'll notice I didn't offer any commentary on the other curriculum concerns. Just a counterpoint to the poster saying that the description of UMMS as having a good QOL is a myth.
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Sure, I'd say my last sentence still stands.
 
So mainly the controversy stems from just the preclinical years (baring only the overlap of two classes in the wards at the same time)?

...also keep these perspectives coming (whether they are positive or negative and whether they are viewed as justified or unjustified/salty by others)
 
Could someone expand on the "many issues people of color and other minorities have at both the hospital and medical" comment that was made by @Anew4215 ?

I spoke to some students of color (various races) and specifically asked about challenges unique to minorities at the school and was essentially told that everything was great.

Loving all the input from current students BTW. I wish every school specific forum was like this. It really gives admitted students a real portrait of the school instead of the photoshopped and filtered version you get on interviews (and second look to a certain extent).
 
My advice is to find the 95% of people at Michigan who are solution-oriented, and have a great time. Get a great education. If you're passionate about the curriculum, join the curriculum committee. While nothing is perfect, there are a small minority of M1s who are determined to be grumpy. They've found one another and complain into an echo chamber. My suggestion: leave the echo chamber and do something useful with your passion. There are innumerable ways to do that here at UMMS. Join us.
 
someguyinMI said:
My advice is to find the 95% of people at Michigan who are solution-oriented, and have a great time. Get a great education. If you're passionate about the curriculum, join the curriculum committee. While nothing is perfect, there are a small minority of M1s who are determined to be grumpy. They've found one another and complain into an echo chamber. My suggestion: leave the echo chamber and do something useful with your passion. There are innumerable ways to do that here at UMMS. Join us.
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Would pretty much echo this. Have been thrilled overall with my time here. If you're unwilling to go through some inevitable growing pains that come with implementing a new curriculum then you probably should not matriculate here. Otherwise I'd recommend it in a heartbeat to anyone.
 
someguyinMI said:
My advice is to find the 95% of people at Michigan who are solution-oriented, and have a great time. Get a great education. If you're passionate about the curriculum, join the curriculum committee. While nothing is perfect, there are a small minority of M1s who are determined to be grumpy. They've found one another and complain into an echo chamber. My suggestion: leave the echo chamber and do something useful with your passion. There are innumerable ways to do that here at UMMS. Join us.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. I don't think I'm stuck in an echo chamber: as I've explicitly stated, there are many students here who are content with the current system and think UMich is the best fit for them. There are other students who don't fit into this category, and I think such a viewpoint should be represented here instead of archly refusing to deviate from the rah-rah-rah-UMMS narrative that had been previously pushed ad nauseam in this thread.

The biggest issue with our class probably isn't directly relevant to the incoming M0's. We were given incorrect data during our decision making process (as another M1 mentioned, we were not told that we would be having a transition 1.5 + 2.5 curriculum until midway through November; current M0's know they are entering into a new curriculum). Had the administration been transparent during our process and not intentionally withheld such information, those students currently dissatisfied may have chosen to matriculate to different institutions where they would be more happy with the curriculum. Unfortunately, students were robbed of the opportunity to self-determine goodness of fit, and now UMMS has a sizable cohort of frustrated students struggling to find administrators willing to talk frankly instead of pushing agenda item X, Y, or Z to benefit their burgeoning and precarious status as pioneers of medical education.

To reiterate, I'm just one data point. For me, the majority of my accomplishments here have been in spite of the curriculum, not because of it. I am wary of the administration as I have seen them disfigure the truth and attempt to brush off legitimate student concerns with such trite and stale phrases as "go with the flow!" and "let's think about the big picture...". I think it's fair to express such sentiments here (even at the risk of being labeled chronically grumpy) for prospective students to use in their discernment process--I think it's fair even when I do think there are great facets of the UMich experience (e.g. clinical training, life in Ann Arbor, research opps). We should be seeking to provide honest reflections of UMMS experiences to attract students who will be happy here.

If you're a prospective student, come to second look weekend and talk to current students. There are pros, there are cons, and there's everything in between.
 
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wdr21 said:
Deferred and now "upper tier waitlisted" as well. Anybody know if this is actually any different from the regular waitlist?
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Here is a post from March 4 Admissions Twitter:

Admission decisions are now complete. As in past yrs movement off the wait list is unlikely. We wish you good luck in your future endeavors!
 
Rainbow Zebra said:
Here is a post from March 4 Admissions Twitter:

Admission decisions are now complete. As in past yrs movement off the wait list is unlikely. We wish you good luck in your future endeavors!
Click to expand...
So does that mean you broke the trend of the past 7 years by getting off the wait list? haha
 
fhexhockey said:
So does that mean you broke the trend of the past 7 years by getting off the wait list? haha
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I must be the last acceptance of the season. Some other school gives out a full ride to the last accepted student. I'll be paying full fare, and happy to do it.

I think the gods just played a joke on me, accepting me to OSU back in October, and made we wait until March for a U of M acceptance.
 
Rainbow Zebra said:
I must be the last acceptance of the season. Some other school gives out a full ride to the last accepted student. I'll be paying full fare, and happy to do it.

I think the gods just played a joke on me, accepting me to OSU back in October, and made we wait until March for a U of M acceptance.
Click to expand...
Worth the wait! Couldn't ever imagine converting to that school in Ohio.
 
fhexhockey said:
Worth the wait! Couldn't ever imagine converting to that school in Ohio.
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It was certainly giving my Wolverine Family heartburn, and I already was a Spartan. I liked OSU med school, and they liked me, was ready to be a Buckeye. But in my heart, I will always be Maize and Blue and Green!! Go Green, Go White, and always, Go Blue!
 
Wait, so were you actually on the waitlist or just on Hold? I know Michigan has a hold status based on that flow-chart graph on their admissions website.
 
SurgeonOfLife said:
Wait, so were you actually on the waitlist or just on Hold? I know Michigan has a hold status based on that flow-chart graph on their admissions website.
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Officially put on an undefined waitlist in December from a November interview. I must be the only waitlister reported to ever get off in the past few years.
Again, the gods were messing with me, trying to make this MSU Spartan an OSU buckeye, but the Wolverine family prayers were answered.
 
Rainbow Zebra said:
Officially put on an undefined waitlist in December from a November interview. I must be the only waitlister reported to ever get off in the past few years.
Again, the gods were messing with me, trying to make this MSU Spartan an OSU buckeye, but the Wolverine family prayers were answered.
Click to expand...

Awesome. Well look forward to being potential classmates.
 
Just saw the accepted students document on the FB page.

369 total acceptances out of 529 interviews (69.75%)
26 MSTP acceptances (I think ~60 of us were interviewed?)

4 from FL, my home state woo. It's gonna be cold.
 
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If accepted and going to Michigan, when will you start house hunting? I was going to wait until mid May with a goal of moving late June or early July. Do you guys think that's too late?


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MedSkoolz said:
If accepted and going to Michigan, when will you start house hunting? I was going to wait until mid May with a goal of moving late June or early July. Do you guys think that's too late?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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Not really too late, lots of movement in the White Coat Area Apartments in June/July. However, don't wait until June, as my brother did that, and didn't get to move in until late August, almost a month after the start of orientation/classes. I'm just looking for roommates at SLW, then will get a lease started.
 
Quick question: how important is SLW in terms of looking for roommate/housing?

I'm pretty set on Michigan, so I don't see the need to dish out extra $$$ and time to do a re-visit. However, I'm scared of being left out! I have an impression that people are going to make friends and find cool roommates, and I'll be missing out on that. Can someone speak to whether or not that's true? Will I be able to find housing and roommates without going to SLW?
 
Rainbow Zebra said:
Not really too late, lots of movement in the White Coat Area Apartments in June/July. However, don't wait until June, as my brother did that, and didn't get to move in until late August, almost a month after the start of orientation/classes. I'm just looking for roommates at SLW, then will get a lease started.
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Is this timeframe relevant to those planning on living in surrounding areas like Ypsilanti? I really need to work probably until late June to afford the move. I can't afford to pay rent in 2 places.
 
MedSkoolz said:
Is this timeframe relevant to those planning on living in surrounding areas like Ypsilanti? I really need to work probably until late June to afford the move. I can't afford to pay rent in 2 places.
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No, if you are moving to Ypsi or outlying areas, it is more on the school year then. Only near the med campus is June getting too late.
 
applepie41 said:
Quick question: how important is SLW in terms of looking for roommate/housing?

I'm pretty set on Michigan, so I don't see the need to dish out extra $$$ and time to do a re-visit. However, I'm scared of being left out! I have an impression that people are going to make friends and find cool roommates, and I'll be missing out on that. Can someone speak to whether or not that's true? Will I be able to find housing and roommates without going to SLW?
Click to expand...
You can use the facebook account to find folks who are looking for roommates. SLW is used to connect people, but facebook is a good alternative to meeting. Sometimes friend of a friend connection is useful, that is how my brother found his roommate.
 
they mentioned that scholarship announcements come out this week. Does anyone know when/in what order they send these out?
 
warrior209 said:
they mentioned that scholarship announcements come out this week. Does anyone know when/in what order they send these out?
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Per the checklist March 14-15 scholarship announcement. Nothing on their twitter feed yet though.
 
same here, but wasn't nearly as much as other places. will probably decline and give up my spot
 
Also received scholarship email this morning. Is there any record of Michigan increasing scholarship amounts after the initial offer?
 
Ochemphd said:
Also received scholarship email this morning. Is there any record of Michigan increasing scholarship amounts after the initial offer?
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Yes, it's happened before. Once the dust settles and some people turn down their scholarships for other schools/bigger scholarships than it's likely Michigan would provide, they'll be able to reallocate some of that scholarship money.

My advisor suggested that I attend second look, decide if I *truly* want to go to Michigan, and then approach them for more money to be competitive with the other scholarships I've received. I was told that a true interest and intent to go to the school should you receive the extra money will be more likely to lead to receiving it. I'm not sure if it's true, but I think that's what I'm going to do.
 
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