2018-2019 Waitlist Support Thread

[canreadcanwrite]

Which school? EDIT: and did you mean last week or this week

Most (probably all?) schools are off today. I would expect no WL movement today. Do your best to distract yourself fam.

I meant next week

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[mchammer]

This may have been answered in the above 122 pages but would it be appropriate to email a WL school (who welcomes updates) once you are forced to CTE at your accepted school? One or two sentences saying that you’ve CTE’d to another school because of their deadline but that you would still attend WL school, if offered an acceptance.

 

[Hi_I'mPaul]

This may have been answered in the above 122 pages but would it be appropriate to email a WL school (who welcomes updates) once you are forced to CTE at your accepted school? One or two sentences saying that you’ve CTE’d to another school because of their deadline but that you would still attend WL school, if offered an acceptance.

Sounds like the perfect reason to email them!

 

[thatdude!]

This may have been answered in the above 122 pages but would it be appropriate to email a WL school (who welcomes updates) once you are forced to CTE at your accepted school? One or two sentences saying that you’ve CTE’d to another school because of their deadline but that you would still attend WL school, if offered an acceptance.

I feel like this is exactly what the CTE don’t allow for. Like if everybody did this then wouldn’t it just be anarchy out there?

 

[mchammer]

I feel like this is exactly what the CTE don’t allow for. Like if everybody did this then wouldn’t it just be anarchy out there?

I might argue that it’s already anarchy haha

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This may have been answered in the above 122 pages but would it be appropriate to email a WL school (who welcomes updates) once you are forced to CTE at your accepted school? One or two sentences saying that you’ve CTE’d to another school because of their deadline but that you would still attend WL school, if offered an acceptance.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that CTEing required you to withdraw from all other schools including waitlists. So if you are forced to CTE at a school and you do, the only thing you should be emailing other schools is a withdraw email.

But that sounds like a good reason to email them prior to the CTE deadline.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I might argue that it’s already anarchy haha

It certainly feels that way, but the tu quoque fallacy is not a valid argument.

 

[Hi_I'mPaul]

Maybe I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that CTEing required you to withdraw from all other schools including waitlists. So if you are forced to CTE at a school and you do, the only thing you should be emailing other schools is a withdraw email.

But that sounds like a good reason to email them prior to the CTE deadline.

Theoretically, you're correct. However, in actuality, this hasn't always happened. I even received an email a few days ago from my school that about 20% of the class that clicked "CTE" were still on other WLs. Of course, they wanted those on the other WL to follow proper guidelines and withdraw from those WLs ASAP.

I agree that the OP should email before the CTE deadline to follow proper protocols!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Theoretically, you're correct. However, in actuality, this hasn't always happened. I even received an email a few days ago from my school that about 20% of the class that clicked "CTE" were still on other WLs. Of course, they wanted those on the other WL to follow proper guidelines and withdraw from those WLs ASAP.

I agree that the OP should email before the CTE deadline to follow proper protocols!

Agreed. Like I said, tu quoque is not a valid argument.

 

[confusedpremed12345]

This may have been answered in the above 122 pages but would it be appropriate to email a WL school (who welcomes updates) once you are forced to CTE at your accepted school? One or two sentences saying that you’ve CTE’d to another school because of their deadline but that you would still attend WL school, if offered an acceptance.

yes, i asked this question above and was told it wouldn't harm me, but probably wouldn't have an impact

 

[deleted715868]

Hope you guys have a great 4th. Enjoy some time off of stressing and have a hot dog or tofu pup. I believe in y’all

 

[confusedpremed12345]

Hope you guys have a great 4th. Enjoy some time off of stressing and have a hot dog or tofu pup. I believe in y’all

what is a tofu pup? a hot dog made out of tofu? i want to try that

 

[canreadcanwrite]

We got this. I'm eating a hot dog right now.

On a side note, I was religiously profiled by law enforcement on the way back into the US in January. Filled out the necessary paperwork, waited it out, and navigated my name being on a watchlist. Much quicker process than this med school waitlist...smh

 

[KnightDoc]

yes, i asked this question above and was told it wouldn't harm me, but probably wouldn't have an impact

Just to clarify -- @Matthew9Thirtyfive has it exactly right -- if you were playing by the "rules" you would have withdrawn from the WL, and if the WL school is following the "rules," it will see that you have CTE'd elsewhere and won't consider you, so reaching out won't hurt since you are no longer under consideration.

On the other hand, since you are apparently not playing by the "rules," since you didn't withdraw from the WL, and the speculation is that at least some schools will be open to poaching candidates who have CTE'd elsewhere, you could still possibly get the call, but it is highly unlikely that reaching out after you have CTE'd will provoke any action since there will be no urgency to act seeing as how you have already CTE'd! So, it probably won't have an impact insofar as whatever is going to happen is going to happen anyway (i.e., reaching out won't cause them to reject you if they weren't already going to do that (in fact, you are already rejected if they are playing by the "rules" and you are supposed to already realize that), and it also won't cause them to accept you if they weren't already going to do that, and won't cause them to do anything any earlier than they would have anyway).

 

[confusedpremed12345]

Just to clarify -- @Matthew9Thirtyfive has it exactly right -- if you were playing by the "rules" you would have withdrawn from the WL, and if the WL school is following the "rules," it will see that you have CTE'd elsewhere and won't consider you, so reaching out won't hurt since you are no longer under consideration.

On the other hand, since you are apparently not playing by the "rules," since you didn't withdraw from the WL, and the speculation is that at least some schools will be open to poaching candidates who have CTE'd elsewhere, you could still possibly get the call, but it is highly unlikely that reaching out after you have CTE'd will provoke any action since there will be no urgency to act seeing as how you have already CTE'd! So, it probably won't have an impact insofar as whatever is going to happen is going to happen anyway (i.e., reaching out won't cause them to reject you if they weren't already going to do that (in fact, you are already rejected if they are playing by the "rules" and you are supposed to already realize that), and it also won't cause them to accept you if they weren't already going to do that, and won't cause them to do anything any earlier than they would have anyway).

well, the rules are stupid and wrong so why should we play by them?

 

[KnightDoc]

well, the rules are stupid and wrong so why should we play by them?

No reason, other than you agreed to when hitting the CTE button! You're just lucky CTE schools cannot see that you are still holding WL spots, otherwise I'm sure lots of folks would be dealing with it differently. I'm sure that's an adjustment AMCAS will make in the future if poaching becomes a big thing this year.

 

[confusedpremed12345]

No reason, other than you agreed to when hitting the CTE button!

Just to clarify, I have not done this yet, but also, that is not a valid reason. Applicants are coerced into harming themselves because of a problematic system. That doesn't justify the existence of the rules that harm them.

 

[KnightDoc]

just to clarify, I have not done this yet

Really? I thought you were CTE'd. I guess I got confused with PTE. Just for the record -- I feel for you, and don't mean to come off as holier than thou. If I wanted the WL school and did not risk getting caught, I'd stay on the WL too. I'm pretty sure, however, that most schools will honor the CTE, and very few will be called off WLs is they are CTE'd elsewhere. Also, if you actually care what I think, I don't think I would reach out to the WL school and call attention to the fact that I was CTE'd elsewhere. Maybe they will call you without even checking -- why risk having them not call you because you are pointing out your CTE status, just to scratch an itch by doing something because you are anxious and feel the need to do something?

 

[confusedpremed12345]

Really? I thought you were CTE'd. I guess I got confused with PTE. Just for the record -- I feel for you, and don't mean to come off as holier than thou. If I wanted the WL school and did not risk getting caught, I'd stay on the WL too. I'm pretty sure, however, that most schools will honor the CTE, and very few will be called off WLs is they are CTE'd elsewhere.

nah, I asked because my deadline to cte is coming up. It was supposed to be july 1st, but i got an extension from the school.

 

[KnightDoc]

nah, I asked because my deadline to cte is coming up. It was supposed to be july 1st, but i got an extension from the school.

I'm not sure why I'm taking such an interest in you, but you seem very nice, reasonable, ethical, and you haven't slammed me in public , so take this for what it's worth (unsolicited advice from a stranger) -- please don't call the WL school just because you are jumping out of your skin. You are right that the rules are BS, and it sucks that you are forced to give up a WL spot to grab the bird in hand, but feel lucky that you had several birds in hand and you don't have to go through this again. Stay on the WL, since you will not get caught, but do not call attention to the fact that you are doing so, since you are breaking a contract by doing so. Assume you are not going to be called by the WL school (because the odds are the vast majority of those on all WLs are not going to be called, and because you are CTE'd elsewhere). If a miracle happens, break your CTE commitment, but don't highlight for the WL school that you are CTE'd elsewhere. They are not suddenly going to accept you once they learn you are CTE'd elsewhere, so what do you have to gain?

 

[deleted967981]

Just to clarify, I have not done this yet, but also, that is not a valid reason. Applicants are coerced into harming themselves because of a problematic system. That doesn't justify the existence of the rules that harm them.

But it does constitute a binding agreement that you, as an adult, signed and now must abide by. The consequences of violating this stupid rule are that you could lose both your acceptance and your WL position with no avenue for further action on your part, because you agreed to it by signing it. Welcome to medical education.

Edit: I realize that you haven’t actually hit the CTE button yet, but others have and continue to hold WL positions, so this can pass on to them as well, they are taking a big risk.

 

[ReturnToMed]

Hope you guys have a great 4th. Enjoy some time off of stressing and have a hot dog or tofu pup. I believe in y’all

you mean prewriting secondaries?

 

[almondflower]

what is a tofu pup? a hot dog made out of tofu? i want to try that

If you actually want to try them, go to trader joe's/walmart/target/wholefoods. It's basically just a log of soy so it doesn't matter which brand you get. If you eat them plain they are much worse than regular hotdogs but with seasoning and toppings they'll taste just as good.

 

[confusedpremed12345]

I'm not sure why I'm taking such an interest in you, but you seem very nice, reasonable, ethical, and you haven't slammed me in public , so take this for what it's worth (unsolicited advice from a stranger) -- please don't call the WL school just because you are jumping out of your skin. You are right that the rules are BS, and it sucks that you are forced to give up a WL spot to grab the bird in hand, but feel lucky that you had several birds in hand and you don't have to go through this again. Stay on the WL, since you will not get caught, but do not call attention to the fact that you are doing so, since you are breaking a contract by doing so. Assume you are not going to be called by the WL school (because the odds are the vast majority of those on all WLs are not going to be called, and because you are CTE'd elsewhere). If a miracle happens, break your CTE commitment, but don't highlight for the WL school that you are CTE'd elsewhere. They are not suddenly going to accept you once they learn you are CTE'd elsewhere, so what do you have to gain?

this is a good point, and now I'm reconsidering, so thank you.

 

[confusedpremed12345]

If you actually want to try them, go to trader joe's/walmart/target/wholefoods. It's basically just a log of soy so it doesn't matter which brand you get. If you eat them plain they are much worse than regular hotdogs but with seasoning and toppings they'll taste just as good.

thank you! i will try this

 

[KnightDoc]

this is a good point, and now I'm reconsidering, so thank you.

My pleasure! Seriously, don't do it. It probably won't hurt, but it definitely won't help, unless you consider them telling you "thanks for letting us know, we'll take you off the WL" helping!

 

[anonymous121]

Spent all of last weekend thinking I was gonna be done with all the stress by this weekend. Lol.

 

[confusedpremed12345]

Spent all of last weekend thinking I was gonna be done with all the stress by this weekend. Lol.

the stress ends when you retire in 50 years.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

well, the rules are stupid and wrong so why should we play by them?

How is it wrong to require you to withdraw from other schools when you commit to going to one?

 

[KnightDoc]

How is it wrong to require you to withdraw from other schools when you commit to going to one?

I really shouldn't speak for anyone else, but I can't help myself , so here goes! Under the old system (which was similar to undergraduate admissions), while you were required to reduce the acceptances you were holding to one after a certain date, "poaching" by taking people off a WL after that date was an acceptable practice, and always allowed candidates to make the choice that was most favorable to them at a given point in the cycle.

Under the new system, CTE dates are staggered over a period of weeks, and forcing people to make commitments without being allowed to stay on WLs can seem arbitrary, and not at all in the best interest of the candidates. This perceived unfairness in the process (due to the leverage medical schools have to impose this requirement, given the ratio of seats to applicants) is what can lead to the temptation for candidates to act in their best interest (since the schools clearly aren't) by staying on WLs if they can get away with it, and breaking CTE commitments if the opportunity presents itself, justifying the action by reasoning that they were "unfairly" pressured into making the commitment at the time. I'm not saying it's right, but I do understand the rationale, since it really is BS that there is not a common CTE date, with an allowance to stay on WLs after that date.

You can bet if there were more seats than applicants that candidates would not be pressured or required to make commitments until they were good and ready to do so!!! Just because schools have the market power to do this doesn't make it right, and it's hard to blame people for trying to work around the system. This would probably make a great CASPer situation!

 

[Engrailed]

Is there anyone here who is on a WL at their dream school? Where?
And do you already have an acceptance elsewhere?

 

[Charmnr]

How is it wrong to require you to withdraw from other schools when you commit to going to one?

Just want to add on to what @KnightDoc said.

Its not that its "wrong" to require you to withdraw from other schools when you commit to going to one, but it feels unjust because some students had to withdraw from their waitlists much earlier than other students, which kind of eliminates all "fairness" in the system. IIRC, I think Michigan State had a CTE date of like May 15th, or something. So if you were accepted at Michigan State but holding out for a waitlist acceptance from School Y and you were playing by the rules, you would have had to drop your waitlist at school Y by May 15th. Meanwhile someone else who's at Wisconsin-Milwaukee (CTE July 15th) and also on waitlist at school Y, would be able to stay on the waitlist much longer, thus giving them a better chance of acceptance (because more people would drop off the waitlist, if they follow the rules).

Its that sort of inequality if you will, that is frustrating people and makes them say "well, I'll just ignore my CTE."

Again, the rebuttal is "well life's not fair," and that's true for random events and things like that, but this was a system that AAMC created, meaning they created this 'unfairness' when there really was no reason to (especially because the old system [hindsight's 20/20] was working well).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Just want to add on to what @KnightDoc said.

Its not that its "wrong" to require you to withdraw from other schools when you commit to going to one, but it feels unjust because some students had to withdraw from their waitlists much earlier than other students, which kind of eliminates all "fairness" in the system. IIRC, I think Michigan State had a CTE date of like May 15th, or something. So if you were accepted at Michigan State but holding out for a waitlist acceptance from School Y and you were playing by the rules, you would have had to drop your waitlist at school Y by May 15th. Meanwhile someone else who's at Wisconsin-Milwaukee (CTE July 15th) and also on waitlist at school Y, would be able to stay on the waitlist much longer, thus giving them a better chance of acceptance (because more people would drop off the waitlist, if they follow the rules).

Its that sort of inequality if you will, that is frustrating people and makes them say "well, I'll just ignore my CTE."

Wrong wasn’t my word. I quoted someone who said that. I get that it doesn’t feel fair when you have to CTE earlier than others. There are also better ways to do it, I’m sure.

Again, the rebuttal is "well life's not fair," and that's true for random events and things like that, but this was a system that AAMC created, meaning they created this 'unfairness' when there really was no reason to (especially because the old system [hindsight's 20/20] was working well).

My response isn’t that life isn’t fair. It’s that there are rules and you should follow them. People blowing off the deadlines is part of the problem.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I really shouldn't speak for anyone else, but I can't help myself , so here goes! Under the old system (which was similar to undergraduate admissions), while you were required to reduce the acceptances you were holding to one after a certain date, "poaching" by taking people off a WL after that date was an acceptable practice, and always allowed candidates to make the choice that was most favorable to them at a given point in the cycle.

Under the new system, CTE dates are staggered over a period of weeks, and forcing people to make commitments without being allowed to stay on WLs can seem arbitrary, and not at all in the best interest of the candidates. This perceived unfairness in the process (due to the leverage medical schools have to impose this requirement, given the ratio of seats to applicants) is what can lead to the temptation for candidates to act in their best interest (since the schools clearly aren't) by staying on WLs if they can get away with it, and breaking CTE commitments if the opportunity presents itself, justifying the action by reasoning that they were "unfairly" pressured into making the commitment at the time. I'm not saying it's right, but I do understand the rationale, since it really is BS that there is not a common CTE date, with an allowance to stay on WLs after that date.

You can bet if there were more seats than applicants that candidates would not be pressured or required to make commitments until they were good and ready to do so!!! Just because schools have the market power to do this doesn't make it right, and it's hard to blame people for trying to work around the system. This would probably make a great CASPer situation!

And doing that contributes to the problem, not solves it. You can justify it however you want, but it’s still being selfish and violating the rules.

 

[cafedisco]

Just want to add on to what @KnightDoc said.

Its not that its "wrong" to require you to withdraw from other schools when you commit to going to one, but it feels unjust because some students had to withdraw from their waitlists much earlier than other students, which kind of eliminates all "fairness" in the system. IIRC, I think Michigan State had a CTE date of like May 15th, or something. So if you were accepted at Michigan State but holding out for a waitlist acceptance from School Y and you were playing by the rules, you would have had to drop your waitlist at school Y by May 15th. Meanwhile someone else who's at Wisconsin-Milwaukee (CTE July 15th) and also on waitlist at school Y, would be able to stay on the waitlist much longer, thus giving them a better chance of acceptance (because more people would drop off the waitlist, if they follow the rules).

Its that sort of inequality if you will, that is frustrating people and makes them say "well, I'll just ignore my CTE."

Again, the rebuttal is "well life's not fair," and that's true for random events and things like that, but this was a system that AAMC created, meaning they created this 'unfairness' when there really was no reason to (especially because the old system [hindsight's 20/20] was working well).

I agree, the system as it is right now definitely hurts a lot of people. Waitlist spots maintained since early this year, or even last year, are put in jeopardy not because a school is full, but because if another school's arbitrary deadline.

I can't imagine having a May CTE deadline.

 

[Tetines of Paris]

My school's CTE was June 25th. School STARTS in 10 days. Nobody has gotten post-interview rejections. School is notorious for accepting students super late.

So are they still accepting? Someone kill me and just get it over with!!!

 

[canreadcanwrite]

My school's CTE was June 25th. School STARTS in 10 days. Nobody has gotten post-interview rejections. School is notorious for accepting students super late.

So are they still accepting? Someone kill me and just get it over with!!!

yes. they will.

 

[Charmnr]

My response isn’t that life isn’t fair. It’s that there are rules and you should follow them. People blowing off the deadlines is part of the problem.

And doing that contributes to the problem, not solves it. You can justify it however you want, but it’s still being selfish and violating the rules.

I completely agree with you that there are rules and people violating them is being selfish, but it ultimately comes down to "am I going to put myself in a worse situation (in whatever sense of the word - happiness, location, cost), for the sake of some anonymous person that I've never met and will never meet?" Its entirely selfish, but should someone sacrifice their own happiness to follow a rule that is unfair towards them anyway? There are very real circumstances (again, financially perhaps being the most salient) to say "if I break the rules and get off the waitlist at this school, that could save me $200,000." That's very real money. Selfish? Sure. But would I willingly incur that extra debt just to 'follow the rules?' Doubtful.

I guess it just goes back to the age-old argument of "if a rule is unjust, should you still follow it?" Seems that some people say "no" and choose to stay on the waitlist after CTE anyway.

My CTE deadline hasn't passed yet, so I haven't broken any rules, but I entirely see where those people are coming from.

 

[deleted967981]

I can't imagine having a May CTE deadline.

The AACOMAS traffic guidelines allow DO schools to rescind offers to students holding more than one spot after May 15th, and they release a list with names.

 

[ReturnToMed]

The AACOMAS traffic guidelines allow DO schools to rescind offers to students holding more than one spot after May 15th, and they release a list with names.

They do that I think because they are less desirable so they have less power

 

[ice_bucket]

I completely agree with you that there are rules and people violating them is being selfish, but it ultimately comes down to "am I going to put myself in a worse situation (in whatever sense of the word - happiness, location, cost), for the sake of some anonymous person that I've never met and will never meet?" Its entirely selfish, but should someone sacrifice their own happiness to follow a rule that is unfair towards them anyway? There are very real circumstances (again, financially perhaps being the most salient) to say "if I break the rules and get off the waitlist at this school, that could save me $200,000." That's very real money. Selfish? Sure. But would I willingly incur that extra debt just to 'follow the rules?' Doubtful.

I guess it just goes back to the age-old argument of "if a rule is unjust, should you still follow it?" Seems that some people say "no" and choose to stay on the waitlist after CTE anyway.

My CTE deadline hasn't passed yet, so I haven't broken any rules, but I entirely see where those people are coming from.

No matter how we shake it, this is an individual process. It starts out with each applicant applying on their own behalf. It shouldn't be surprising that at the tail end of the process, people will still look out for themselves for all the very real reasons you've listed. I see where they're coming from and wouldn't label them as unreasonable.

 

[Tetines of Paris]

yes. they will.

I wish I had your confidence/state of mind

 

[Throwaway21234567]

My school's CTE was June 25th. School STARTS in 10 days. Nobody has gotten post-interview rejections. School is notorious for accepting students super late.

So are they still accepting? Someone kill me and just get it over with!!!

What school?

 

[tottori]

So from the Wayne thread I learned they make their numbers public. Their classes start very soon.

They offered ~520 acceptances in 2017, and only ~430 this year. They might accept a few people next week, but unless they give out 90 acceptance letters it seems to me that:

1) At least some schools have offered significantly fewer acceptances at this point than in years past.

2) It is unlikely that said schools will "catch up," seeing as Wayne only has a few days before classes start.

I posted this elsewhere but the 430 acceptances offered by Wayne is quite out of date. I would not be surprised if they were closer to 480-500 acceptances offered at this point.

 

[anonymous121]

Freaking out because my school’s orientation week starts on the 22nd, which means I’ll know in less than 17 days if I’m getting in or not. Maybe even this coming week. I feel like I need to go into hibernation at this point to stop thinking about this

 

[l;aksjdf;aljk;f]

Freaking out because my school’s orientation week starts on the 22nd, which means I’ll know in less than 17 days if I’m getting in or not. Maybe even this coming week. I feel like I need to go into hibernation at this point to stop thinking about this

ill raise u one, mine starts monday lol

 

[KnightDoc]

And doing that contributes to the problem, not solves it. You can justify it however you want, but it’s still being selfish and violating the rules.

I have to respectfully disagree. I think it is selfish to hold onto multiple acceptances after a deadline due to indecision, ego, procrastination, etc. while people are desperately waiting to maybe be called off a WL, but I do not agree that it is selfish to stay on a WL if the WL school does not take action to prevent it. Quite frankly, since WL schools can see that you have CTE'd elsewhere, their failing to purge you from the WL is an implicit endorsement of your staying on the WL, although only they know whether they would actually accept you off the WL after you have CTE'd elsewhere!

Ultimately, you are only going to occupy one seat. I really do not think it is a sin to act in your own best interest, since every other player in the process, especially the schools, apparently does the same. Early CTE schools really do not deserve to be rewarded for manipulating the system in their favor if there is a way to avoid it. In fact, no school should be allowed to prohibit or prevent you from being accepted off a WL by the school that is best for you (whenever that happens to occur) by forcing you to make a binding, irrevocable commitment or relinquish your seat. It really is not as though the seat will go unfilled if anyone is called off any WL after any CTE date.

 

[Tetines of Paris]

ill raise u one, mine starts monday lol

DUDE!!! I'm getting nervous about Wayne and I still got 10 days, lol. So does that mean it's over for you? Have you gotten an acceptance elsewhere?

 

[Tetines of Paris]

So from the Wayne thread I learned they make their numbers public. Their classes start very soon.

They offered ~520 acceptances in 2017, and only ~430 this year. They might accept a few people next week, but unless they give out 90 acceptance letters it seems to me that:

1) At least some schools have offered significantly fewer acceptances at this point than in years past.

2) It is unlikely that said schools will "catch up," seeing as Wayne only has a few days before classes start.

Yea that 433 number is like from the end of May I believe. I know they didn't update at all during June. So while I know that number may be higher I'm still hoping the acceptances trickled in because of the hesitation you guys have brought up from the schools. On the thread there were acceptances but ppl also posted to decline or withdraw

 

[confusedpremed12345]

The AACOMAS traffic guidelines allow DO schools to rescind offers to students holding more than one spot after May 15th, and they release a list with names.

again holding multiple spots is not the same as holding one spot and staying on waitlists. the former harms those anxiously waiting for a spot while the latter doesn't harm anyone...