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I think its fair to be frustrated with this process, believe me I know. I just don't think we know enough about the situation to say that this is having a significant impact on waitlist movement.
^this. might be a little bit of movement closer to CTE deadlines. No saying how much at all.

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Did anyone else feel like once they started working on all the tasks for applying next year it felt a little like admitting defeat?
 
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^this. might be a little bit of movement closer to CTE deadlines. No saying how much at all.

I do think there still will be a significant amount of movement. @gyngyn has stated he believes so as well. One of my schools stated in the interviews they are being extremely conservative compared to last cycle. My point was that its hard to exactly blame one particular group of people for the slow down in waitlist movement.
 
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Did anyone else feel like once they started working on all the tasks for applying next year it felt a little like admitting defeat?

It made me motivated. After not getting in anywhere after 5 TX interviews this past cycle, I’m going to apply to AMCAS and AACOMAS, along with TMDSAS again. Completed most of the apps and wrote a new personal statement. Just waiting a couple more weeks before pulling the trigger and spending a bunch of money. An acceptance now would be awesome, but I’m excited for what the next cycle could potentially bring.
 
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It made me motivated. After not getting in anywhere after 5 TX interviews this past cycle, I’m going to apply to AMCAS and AACOMAS, along with TMDSAS again. Completed most of the apps and wrote a new personal statement. Just waiting a couple more weeks before pulling the trigger and spending a bunch of money. An acceptance now would be awesome, but I’m excited for what the next cycle could potentially bring.
I appreciate your resolve and determination! You rock. I wish I had your enthusiasm but I am so close on my waitlist its hard to focus on anything else.
 
Did anyone else feel like once they started working on all the tasks for applying next year it felt a little like admitting defeat?
Yes, in a way, but the decisions are mostly out of our control now. What I can control is to be prepared as possible the next go around in the case that nothing pans out. Just need to be realistic and treat it as a numbers game of progress and eventuality if you keep working it. The time frame and patience required sucks, so best to stay busy and continue improving. Yes, there is a lot of luck involved, but I definitely made mistakes last year. I think my app was still good (and most of the apps here should be decent if we are on WLs), but I was able to continue gaining experience and strengthen all of the writing.

It made me motivated. After not getting in anywhere after 5 TX interviews this past cycle, I’m going to apply to AMCAS and AACOMAS, along with TMDSAS again. Completed most of the apps and wrote a new personal statement. Just waiting a couple more weeks before pulling the trigger and spending a bunch of money. An acceptance now would be awesome, but I’m excited for what the next cycle could potentially bring.

right on. I am also applying aacomas when I chose not to last year.

I appreciate your resolve and determination! You rock. I wish I had your enthusiasm but I am so close on my waitlist its hard to focus on anything else.

Well, if you are really close on the waitlist, that is harder. Rooting for u
 
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I hear that you can message committees to find our what was wrong with your application. Is that looked poorly vs well upon? Do you get direct/specific answers, or (in general as I'm sure each school may be different) are they more general with nothing of merit?
 
If everyone is so competitive as they say in rejection emails, and there is a physician shortage in the field, what’s holding back from accepting more? Each new student will bring the revenue needed for additional costs. I guess at the end of the day it’s doctors that decide how many new doctors will enter the healthcare system. Protecting the prestigiousness of the profession? I find this whole concept ironic.
 
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If everyone is so competitive as they say in rejection emails, and there is a physician shortage in the field, what’s holding back from accepting more? Each new student will bring the revenue needed for additional costs. I guess at the end of the day it’s doctors that decide how many new doctors will enter the healthcare system. Protecting the prestigiousness of the profession? I find this whole concept ironic.

I don’t think there is a point in increasing the number of medical student seats without increasing the number of residency spots as well. Currently, a healthy chunk of residency spots are filled by IMGs, but the match will become even tighter if ratio of spots/applicants get closer to 1.

Apparently, it takes an act of Congress to increase residency spots though, and no one wants to pay for it I suppose...
 
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I don’t think there is a point in increasing the number of medical student seats without increasing the number of residency spots as well. Currently, a healthy chunk of residency spots are filled by IMGs, but the match will become even tighter if ratio of spots/applicants get closer to 1.

Apparently, it takes an act of Congress to increase residency spots though, and no one wants to pay for it I suppose...
There's a decent amount of people who don't match into a residency (which is terrifying as an incoming student, I might add). As the post above said, increasing the number of medical student seats isn't going to fix the physician shortage problem.
 
I hear that you can message committees to find our what was wrong with your application. Is that looked poorly vs well upon? Do you get direct/specific answers, or (in general as I'm sure each school may be different) are they more general with nothing of merit?

I have only contacted 2 schools post-interview through phone call. They were both quite specific in terms of going over every aspect of my application and glancing through interviewer/committee notes. One was with the dean and he was able to confirm that my letters were good and did not have red flags (I was concerned about that). He also said that he does not look down upon applicants that are rejected post-interview at this school and encouraged me to re-apply. I have met interviewees along the trail that have returned for interviews after post-II rejections in the previous cycle at various schools.

The advice will be in some ways general because there are so many aspects that can strengthen an app. I was given some advice about structuring my essays and I have a clearer idea about what I need to focus on for better chances next time.

If everyone is so competitive as they say in rejection emails, and there is a physician shortage in the field, what’s holding back from accepting more? Each new student will bring the revenue needed for additional costs. I guess at the end of the day it’s doctors that decide how many new doctors will enter the healthcare system. Protecting the prestigiousness of the profession? I find this whole concept ironic.

The bottleneck is at the ACGME/Residency level, not medical school admissions. Also, the shortage is described as a lack of distribution in specialty preference as well as location/geography.
 
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If everyone is so competitive as they say in rejection emails, and there is a physician shortage in the field, what’s holding back from accepting more? Each new student will bring the revenue needed for additional costs. I guess at the end of the day it’s doctors that decide how many new doctors will enter the healthcare system. Protecting the prestigiousness of the profession? I find this whole concept ironic.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... Whoa, my guy. Let's ease into that complex problem. Say it with me, complex problems do not have simple answers! I don't think this is a fair statement to make. I don't really know much, but from what little research I have done much of it comes down to

1. Money. Who is going to pay for all these new residency positions? If schools expand their seats, where will the funds for the necessary resources come from? While yes, you can cite NYU and Colombia's recent endowments as potential sources, that is far too short-sighted. I'm sure anyone working for a medical school can tell you to run a medical school is not cheap! Congress would need to intervene here... as far as reallocation of funds and how they are currently spent? That was a significant portion of my research. We can sit for tea cause' it's gonna take all day, sir.

2. There are way more international students interested in practicing in the United States than are currently accepted into the US for residency positions. And even after they arrive, there is a huge barrier as far as licensing goes for internationals. They basically need to rego through residency again here to practice. If you have been practicing for years in your country, would you want to do that? I don't know how much research has gone into analyzing the care internationals give vs. USMD doctors, so I won't speculate. I do know that international candidates are more likely to go into primary care though and work in more rural areas. I'm not saying to get rid of the program entirely, but there definitely has to be a better way to make this transition.
 
I hear that you can message committees to find our what was wrong with your application. Is that looked poorly vs well upon? Do you get direct/specific answers, or (in general as I'm sure each school may be different) are they more general with nothing of merit?

This really depends. For example, my school does not give any information on this, but I heard that some schools can even share file notes with you, which is probably super helpful. Just call and ask.
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa.... Whoa, my guy. Let's ease into that complex problem. Say it with me, complex problems do not have simple answers! I don't think this is a fair statement to make. I don't really know much, but from what little research I have done much of it comes down to

1. Money. Who is going to pay for all these new residency positions? If schools expand their seats, where will the funds for the necessary resources come from? While yes, you can cite NYU and Colombia's recent endowments as potential sources, that is far too short-sighted. I'm sure anyone working for a medical school can tell you to run a medical school is not cheap! Congress would need to intervene here... as far as reallocation of funds and how they are currently spent? That was a significant portion of my research. We can sit for tea cause' it's gonna take all day, sir.

2. There are way more international students interested in practicing in the United States than are currently accepted into the US for residency positions. And even after they arrive, there is a huge barrier as far as licensing goes for internationals. They basically need to rego through residency again here to practice. If you have been practicing for years in your country, would you want to do that? I don't know how much research has gone into analyzing the care internationals give vs. USMD doctors, so I won't speculate. I do know that international candidates are more likely to go into primary care though and work in more rural areas. I'm not saying to get rid of the program entirely, but there definitely has to be a better way to make this transition.

Would you say that residents do not contribute to a hospital’s revenue? I understanding there must be a supervising physician but isn’t more residents = more patients served ? Or do I have it wrong
 
The problem is that we really don't know what any of them is doing! CTE has only been chosen (as of now) by less than half of applicants. Even if they have reduced to one, the PTE's (and those who have not chosen anything) are still the majority. How would you interpret this if you still had more than the number needed to fill?
It could mean you have plenty...or it could mean you should be taking a boatload off the waitlist.

Can you see what proportion of students holding an acceptance to your school hold an acceptance to another?
 
I was just rejected from one of the schools I was waitlisted at... Only one waitlist remains, hoping and praying I get in. If not I'll be attending a DO school this cycle.
Man that stinks. What school was it that just rejected? And which school are you waiting to hear back from?

Currently I am waiting to hear back from 3 MD schools. If I dont get in, I'll be going to CCOM
 
Harvard's CTE deadline is in early June. Do you guys think that that will jumpstart WL movement, since if Harvard has vacancies after their CTE deadline they'll start admitting people off of their WL who might hold acceptances at other schools and that'll trickle down? @gyngyn
This would only really apply to the top schools. And since Harvard has such a high yield and low waitlist movement anyway, I doubt it will make much of a difference.
 
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Would you say that residents do not contribute to a hospital’s revenue? I understanding there must be a supervising physician but isn’t more residents = more patients served ? Or do I have it wrong
We are continually told by accountants at our main teaching hospital that the elimination of residents would lead to a cheaper and more efficient system.
 

@gyngyn So your school's proportion of admitted students who are PTE, CTE, or neither is essentially unchanged as compared to 2 weeks ago? Or are you and other schools starting to see some progress?

What do you think those students holding onto multiple acceptances are waiting for?
 
Yale is moving too despite that not being reflected on its own page.
 
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If everyone is so competitive as they say in rejection emails, and there is a physician shortage in the field, what’s holding back from accepting more? Each new student will bring the revenue needed for additional costs. I guess at the end of the day it’s doctors that decide how many new doctors will enter the healthcare system. Protecting the prestigiousness of the profession? I find this whole concept ironic.
The rate limiting step to produce physicians is not the number of medical students, rather the number of residency slots.

At most US MD schools, the school loses money on medical students. Their education is subsidized by research grants and in-kind contributions from teaching faculty.

At no point in the day do doctors decide how many doctors enter the system. It is decided by Congress (mostly).

The prestige of the profession is protected by the provision of compassionate, expert care that doesn't bankrupt the patient.
 
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@gyngyn So your school's proportion of admitted students who are PTE, CTE, or neither is essentially unchanged as compared to 2 weeks ago? Or are you and other schools starting to see some progress?

What do you think those students holding onto multiple acceptances are waiting for?
That's what I'm saying.
 
The prestige of the profession is protected by the provision of compassionate expert care that doesn't bankrupt the patient.

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My roommates dad's bill was 200,000 for a CABG. The cost of the bill can range significantly with even the city system. (Regulatory problems) Problems with drug companies driving up costs and physicians co-opting it by assigning said drugs (even if there are cheaper alternatives.) We are taking steps in transparency of costs, but still far from where we need to be. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. Especially when we have an administration that is currently censoring info about ACA (another debate in itself, but it has helped many) on important health related we sites. But that gets political, which many doctors/hopefuls avoid like the plague.
 
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View attachment 262941

My roommates dad's bill was 200,000 for a CABG. The cost of the bill can range significantly with even the same system. We are taking steps in transparency of costs, but still far from where we need to be. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. Especially when we have an administration that is currently censoring info about ACA (another debate in itself, but it has helped many) on important health related we sites. But that gets political, which many doctors/hopefuls avoid like the plague.
As long as doctors are held responsible (rightly or wrongly) for the cost of care in a "system" that does what you have described, our "prestige" will suffer.
In other words, I believe we are in agreement.
 
We are continually told by accountants at our main teaching hospital that the elimination of residents would lead to a cheaper and more efficient system.

How are residents inefficient? Is it because they require a lot of guidance/make too many mistakes?
 
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Any insights on whether UCSF is moving normally? Seems to be the case on the thread.
 
How are residents inefficient? Is it because they require a lot of guidance/make too many mistakes?
Learning curves must be accommodated. Attending time is expensive. Residents can see a relatively small number of patients safely. Their thinking, writing, physical exam findings, lab result interpretation and procedural skills must be continuously observed and reviewed. Even at the point where they start to become more independent, they have to supervise the juniors, too!
 
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This has been an extremely frustrating waitlist process.
just want to say its pretty incredible you take the time to reply to all of us. I know I appreciate it a lot. There are so many valid questions I see posted here where we all kind of shrug at eachother its good to have some input from someone who knows what they are talking about.
 
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just want to say its pretty incredible you take the time to reply to all of us. I know I appreciate it a lot. There are so many valid questions I see posted here where we all kind of shrug at eachother its good to have some input from someone who knows what they are talking about.

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