2018-2019 Waitlist Support Thread

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mmaslyanko said:
this is so cute 🙂))) yeah i am waiting for another hour to call my parents (time difference with Russia)
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just called my parents.... my mom screamed over the phone 🙂)))) and started laughing.... They are so relieved. They personally do not care where i go to medical school (they dont understand the difference between the schools), but they know that this is the one i wanted very much, and they are happy that i am happy. And that i can finally make plans.
 
~EDIT~ Oops! Clicked on the wrong thread. Sorry for posting here. Guess I'm not as detail oriented as I should be... I'm just going to drop any attempts at medical school. I'm obviously not ready.
 
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ShinySephiroth said:
Quick question: I'm finishing up my Activity List for my Primaries. I'm applying MD/PhD and want to emphasize research in my 15 activities, but am wondering if separating my conferences attended from publications (all of my conferences come from my two pubs) is too much. Even though I want to emphasize research, I'm getting the sinking feeling I need to combine those two. Am I right, or was my first inclination to separate them a better route and just mention the conferences in the pub section?

I have a couple of leadership experiences I could discuss, or putting in my hobby section to show I'm not a robot (triathlon/marathon training and how that helps me with determination and perseverance and all that jazz). Would those be better then separating conferences from pubs?

Any help is greatly appreciated! ^_^
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Yes, all conferences should be considered just 1 of your 15 activities.
 
mmaslyanko said:
just called my parents.... my mom screamed over the phone 🙂)))) and started laughing.... They are so relieved. They personally do not care where i go to medical school (they dont understand the difference between the schools), but they know that this is the one i wanted very much, and they are happy that i am happy. And that i can finally make plans.
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This is awesome, congrats!!!!!!!!
 
93sindibad said:
Second? How did you differentiate between the first and second?

Also congratulations! I can't begin to imagine what it must have felt like getting that acceptance!
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I wrote the first one before christmas, so i decided to write another one in April to remind them that i am here and i still REALLY REALLY REALLY want it. 🙂)))
 
mmaslyanko said:
I wrote the first one before christmas, so i decided to write another one in April to remind them that i am here and i still REALLY REALLY REALLY want it. 🙂)))
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Loool fair enough. I guess I was more getting at whether or not you updated them with any new activities or was it just you reminding them you REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to go haha
 
93sindibad said:
Loool fair enough. I guess I was more getting at whether or not you updated them with any new activities or was it just you reminding them you REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to go haha
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oh, yes, of course i was updating them. I also sent 3 update letters, i believe. In the fall i updated them about my grades, a few things from work, then there was a new research paper i was working on. in spring i sent them the list of my classes (that changed from the time i submitted application).
 
My apologies as I'm sure this has been answered previously, but is there any accepted advice regarding "plan to enroll" on April 30th? I understand we need to whittle down our list to 1 school, but should we hit "PTE" if we are on waitlists (and assuming the school we are accepted at doesn't have a deadline for plan to enroll)--is there any strategy behind this?

i.e. will one's waitlisted school's seeing you have submitted a PTE affect anything vs. seeing you don't have one submitted? They'll see you have an acceptance regardless right?
 
Hippocratesintheflesh said:
My apologies as I'm sure this has been answered previously, but is there any accepted advice regarding "plan to enroll" on April 30th? I understand we need to whittle down our list to 1 school, but should we hit "PTE" if we are on waitlists (and assuming the school we are accepted at doesn't have a deadline for plan to enroll)--is there any strategy behind this?

i.e. will one's waitlisted school's seeing you have submitted a PTE affect anything vs. seeing you don't have one submitted? They'll see you have an acceptance regardless right?
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forums.studentdoctor.net

New Traffic Rules - Wait List

I think you should enter Plan to Enroll at your Accepted school. You will be allowed to stay on your WLs. Look up the final date by which your A school requires you to Commit to Enroll. Commit to enroll mid July. No plan to enroll requirement. I just don’t want my WLed school to think that I’m...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net

Look at this thread.... I’m in the same predicament and I selected plan to enroll yesterday although I’m hoping to get off multiple waitlists. Yes, you should select plan to enroll if it’s your only acceptance.
 
AlphaDoctor said:
forums.studentdoctor.net

New Traffic Rules - Wait List

I think you should enter Plan to Enroll at your Accepted school. You will be allowed to stay on your WLs. Look up the final date by which your A school requires you to Commit to Enroll. Commit to enroll mid July. No plan to enroll requirement. I just don’t want my WLed school to think that I’m...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net

Look at this thread.... I’m in the same predicament and I selected plan to enroll yesterday although I’m hoping to get off multiple waitlists. Yes, you should select plan to enroll if it’s your only acceptance.
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SHOULD is a strong word. We don't have to use the tool unless our school says so. So, if our schools don't insist on PTE, why SHOULD we?
 
Hippocratesintheflesh said:
My apologies as I'm sure this has been answered previously, but is there any accepted advice regarding "plan to enroll" on April 30th? I understand we need to whittle down our list to 1 school, but should we hit "PTE" if we are on waitlists (and assuming the school we are accepted at doesn't have a deadline for plan to enroll)--is there any strategy behind this?

i.e. will one's waitlisted school's seeing you have submitted a PTE affect anything vs. seeing you don't have one submitted? They'll see you have an acceptance regardless right?
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Confirm your school's policies and expectations about the AMCAS tool to protect your acceptance. If no deadline, then use your best judgment. I believe after 4/30, schools you are WL on will see if you have selected PTE but it is not clear what information they will get, such as the name of the school you have selected. I think schools will be in the dark if you do not use the tool.
 
OchemOficionado said:
SHOULD is a strong word. We don't have to use the tool unless our school says so. So, if our schools don't insist on PTE, why SHOULD we?
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maybe unpopular opinion, but this system was there to help improve things, you know? and if only some ppl use it, we really wont know if it is working or not, you know?
So i had three acceptances, used the tool from day one, and got off the waitlist today. I was very open with that school that i have other 3 acceptances, but i really want to matriculate there, and everything worked out. I think using the system and following the rules will only make you look more "ethical" and "willing to play the ball", so to say.
 
1nside said:
Confirm your school's policies and expectations about the AMCAS tool to protect your acceptance. If no deadline, then use your best judgment. I believe after 4/30, schools you are WL on will see if you have selected PTE but it is not clear what information they will get, such as the name of the school you have selected. I think schools will be in the dark if you do not use the tool.
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I think some info is definitely clear. . . If you have an acceptance and have utilized either PTE or CTE the schools that have also accepted or WL'd you will be able to see that you have used the tool (either for their school or another school). They will NOT be able to see WHICH school you used it for other than theirs. After all schools have begun, they will then be able to see where you matriculated.

mmaslyanko said:
maybe unpopular opinion, but this system was there to help improve things, you know? and if only some ppl use it, we really wont know if it is working or not, you know?
So i had three acceptances, used the tool from day one, and got off the waitlist today. I was very open with that school that i have other 3 acceptances, but i really want to matriculate there, and everything worked out. I think using the system and following the rules will only make you look more "ethical" and "willing to play the ball", so to say.
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Ok, that's one reason. Thank you. Was just wondering what the other commenter thought the benefit would be to us this cycle or if they thought it was required.
 
OchemOficionado said:
SHOULD is a strong word. We don't have to use the tool unless our school says so. So, if our schools don't insist on PTE, why SHOULD we?
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“You’re overthinking it. If you only have one accept after 4/30, per AAMC, then OF COURSE you “plan to enroll” there UNLESS you get a better offer that is. I don’t think your WL school will look that deeply into the matter. It’s a different story should you select CTE.”

This was the advice you gave me yesterday.... don’t you think that sounds a little stronger than me just simply using a lowercase “should”? Lol
 
AlphaDoctor said:
“You’re overthinking it. If you only have one accept after 4/30, per AAMC, then OF COURSE you “plan to enroll” there UNLESS you get a better offer that is. I don’t think your WL school will look that deeply into the matter. It’s a different story should you select CTE.”

This was the advice you gave me yesterday.... don’t you think that sounds a little stronger than me just simply using a lowercase “should”? Lol
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Lol, yes I emphasized some words in my response to help get my point across Sure it sounds strong. Ok, now that we’ve gotten that out the way. . . Why do you think applicants SHOULD use PTE by 4/30?
 
OchemOficionado said:
Lol, yes I emphasized some words in my response to help get my point across Sure it sounds strong. Ok, now that we’ve gotten that out the way. . . Why do you think applicants SHOULD use PTE by 4/30?
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For the exact reason that that you mentioned I should. The tool should be used properly and not abused. By April 30th everyone with any amount of acceptances should only have a single acceptance. Considering you cannot plan to enroll to a waitlisted school, it would would only be true that you can only plan to enroll to the single acceptance in which you hold. Your waitlisted schools are aware of this new tool and all of the variables that are associated with its use. I stopped over thinking it, just as you suggested, and went ahead and planned to enroll while I wait for a waitlist acceptance.
 
OchemOficionado said:
SHOULD is a strong word. We don't have to use the tool unless our school says so. So, if our schools don't insist on PTE, why SHOULD we?
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Theoretically it will give schools more accurate information to predict how many people they are going to lose come April 30. Since it doesn't give them anything but aggregate data prior to April 30, I don't really see how it hurts you to use it.
 
Oh my God! Y’all overthinking this whole thing. You have to choose a medical program by April 30th- essentially the program that you are “Planning to Enroll” at. Use the tool as it was designed for. If you’re on the waitlist for your dream school, just send them an email indicating that you PTEd for another program but your main goal is to matriculate into their program. Not using the system as it was designed for definitely make you seem more unethical than smart.
 
AlphaDoctor said:
For the exact reason that that you mentioned I should. The tool should be used properly and not abused. By April 30th everyone with any amount of acceptances should only have a single acceptance. Considering you cannot plan to enroll to a waitlisted school, it would would only be true that you can only plan to enroll to the single acceptance in which you hold. Your waitlisted schools are aware of this new tool and all of the variables that are associated with its use. I stopped over thinking it, just as you suggested, and went ahead and planned to enroll while I wait for a waitlist acceptance.
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Nope. I never suggested that you should or shouldn’t use the tool. I was simply explaining how using it couldn’t hurt you. I think the decision is up the schools first and then the individual applicant. This new system just rolled out and we don’t know how much or how little of an effect it’s going to have, so I think people should first follow the rules, (not simply AAMC suggestions, although we should consider them) and then do what they believe is best for themselves.

I get what you’re saying, and thanks for answering. I was genuinely curious to if you thought it was required or an ethical dilemma. I, for one, don’t think not using the tool is abuse or wrong. Would it help schools, yes, will it help me? I dunno. Until it’s a requirement I don’t feel like we have an obligation to do so. I kinda feel like the tables have turned and now it’s the schools that are waiting to hear from us. Maybe that makes me a butthead.

Spoiler Alert: I used the tool the first day it launched. The above is still true though.

Straight_MD said:
Not using the system as it was designed for definitely make you seem more unethical than smart.
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I doubt this is true. Not everyone even knows about the tool. I think it’s too new for schools to look at the usage and make assumptions about applicants ethics. Not to mention that it seems 99% of schools don’t gave any PTE requirement and my guess is that only 80% have a CTE requirement.
 
Straight_MD said:
Oh my God! Y’all overthinking this whole thing. You have to choose a medical program by April 30th- essentially the program that you are “Planning to Enroll” at. Use the tool as it was designed for. If you’re on the waitlist for your dream school, just send them an email indicating that you PTEd for another program but your main goal is to matriculate into their program. Not using the system as it was designed for definitely make you seem more unethical than smart.
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I agree with this, although personally, I am going to wait until mid May to send that email.
 
Guys . I SERIOUSLY think that everyone is way overthinking this! Are you on a waitlist with no acceptances ? Than don’t worry about this ! Are you accepted to schools you like , but waitlisted to the one you LOVE? Use the PTE thing (NOT CTE), and send LOI to waitlisted school stating that you want to go there and they are your number one choice, even though you have other acceptances . Honestly , I really don’t see what’s the big deal . Just be transparent and honest , and it will be ok !!!!
 
SadreapplicantQQ said:
^ This. Adcoms on this board have repeatedly ad nauseum said that schools don't look to pick those with 0 acceptances off their waitlists. The one exception to this being filling those surprise late July / early august vacancies, which in the case anyone with acceptance will have already CTE.
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Interesting. But after April 30th, one can only hold 1 acceptance per rule. If only accepted students in the waitlist pools can move around, then each move is almost guaranteed to create a vacancy. "Musical chairs" game amongst schools? I don't think that many schools will consider that when selecting from their waitlist pool. Schools will simply select a best fit from their waitlist regardless if this student is accepted elsewhere or not. Just my opinion.
 
dmd2023 said:
Interesting. But after April 30th, one can only hold 1 acceptance per rule. If only accepted students in the waitlist pools can move around, then each move is almost guaranteed to create a vacancy. "Musical chairs" game amongst schools? I don't think that many schools will consider that when selecting from their waitlist pool. Schools will simply select a best fit from their waitlist regardless if this student is accepted elsewhere or not. Just my opinion.
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Right. That’s the point. Selecting PTE and letting your WL schools know you have another acceptance isn’t going to be what keeps you out, especially if you’ve sent an LOI. I’ve written about it before, but schools have an incentive to pick someone who has an acceptance elsewhere they are willing to give up for them.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Right. That’s the point. Selecting PTE and letting your WL schools know you have another acceptance isn’t going to be what keeps you out, especially if you’ve sent an LOI. I’ve written about it before, but schools have an incentive to pick someone who has an acceptance elsewhere they are willing to give up for them.
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What is the incentive?
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Right. That’s the point. Selecting PTE and letting your WL schools know you have another acceptance isn’t going to be what keeps you out, especially if you’ve sent an LOI. I’ve written about it before, but schools have an incentive to pick someone who has an acceptance elsewhere they are willing to give up for them.
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what incentive? why target a student in the waitlist with one or more acceptance who never submitted an LOI? rather than picking someone from the waitlist with 0 acceptance who expressed interest in attending? after all, schools have a primary interest of filling their classes
 
neuro312 said:
What is the incentive?
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It's basic game theory. They are looking for the biggest payoff, which is to get an applicant who will succeed in medical school and who will definitely go to their school. Having an acceptance elsewhere shows you are desirable, and an LOI saying you'll turn it down for them is a reliable assurance. Someone with no other acceptances obviously is going to say they'll go there if accepted since they have no other choice.

Obviously this doesn't strictly apply since it is dependent on everyone being purely rational agents which is not reliably the case.
 
dmd2023 said:
what incentive? why target a student in the waitlist with one or more acceptance who never submitted an LOI? rather than picking someone from the waitlist with 0 acceptance who expressed interest in attending? after all, schools have a primary interest of filling their classes
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See my post above. I specifically said someone with an acceptance who submitted an LOI.
 
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dmd2023 said:
what incentive? why target a student in the waitlist with one or more acceptance who never submitted an LOI? rather than picking someone from the waitlist with 0 acceptance who expressed interest in attending? after all, schools have a primary interest of filling their classes
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no, schools' primary interest is filling their class with people they believe to be a good fit... sometimes it means that the student is already somewhere else
 
mmaslyanko said:
no, schools' primary interest is filling their class with people they believe to be a good fit... sometimes it means that the student is already somewhere else
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This. Fit is also a huge part of it, which is why that simple game theoretic model isn't perfect.
 
dmd2023 said:
It is not a game. That is our disconnect.
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🙄
Game theory is a field. It is used extensively to describe and predict behavior in everything from psychology to biology and oncology. It is called game theory because the interactions between agents are modeled as actions with payoffs.

Inflammatory bowel disease and cancer are not games either, but you can still model their processes with game theory.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
It's basic game theory. They are looking for the biggest payoff, which is to get an applicant who will succeed in medical school and who will definitely go to their school. Having an acceptance elsewhere shows you are desirable, and an LOI saying you'll turn it down for them is a reliable assurance. Someone with no other acceptances obviously is going to say they'll go there if accepted since they have no other choice.

Obviously this doesn't strictly apply since it is dependent on everyone being purely rational agents which is not reliably the case.
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To add to your point, would an applicant with 0 acceptances benefit from disclosing that information in an LOI prior to April 30th since schools will see it anyways?

i.e. does game theory ever posit situations where conceding is a good thing? could the admission lead to a stronger formation of trust between school + applicant?

I know admissions isn’t actually this convoluted, just probing with regards to the theory
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
🙄
Game theory is a field. It is used extensively to describe and predict behavior in everything from psychology to biology and oncology. It is called game theory because the interactions between agents are modeled as actions with payoffs.

Inflammatory bowel disease and cancer are not games either, but you can still model their processes with game theory.
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adcoms using game theory at the macro level, perhaps. i.e. choosing the size of acceptance pool, waitlist pool, yield factors.....But at the micro level? I will be disappointed if that is applicable to choosing to extend an offer by adcom to student A vs student B from the waitlist pool at this point. "Best Fit" from the waitlist is what I hope they apply as a criteria at this point. Everyone on waitlist was chosen because adcom believed they are qualified and can make it through the med school journey.
 
I think everyone is overthinking wayyyy too much. I know we are all neurotic pre-meds but I think an applicant with 10 acceptances who is the ~perfect~ fit for a waitlist spot at X school vs. an applicant with 0 acceptances who is not a good fit is going to win that spot 10/10 times. Maybe that applicant won't want that spot and it'll go to the next person. I think we all just need to trust the process and hope that whatever is meant to happen will happen.

I have one acceptance and one waitlist from my 2 II's and I am exceedingly grateful for both positions. I am here because my waitlist is my top choice (and my state school, so financially a better option), but I still would be very happy at my accepted school! The point here is to become a physician!! And at the end of the day, I know rank kind of matters, but I think you can impress people by doing phenomenally and working hard wherever you end up.

Select PTE, because it'll help your accepted schools get a better idea of if you might come or not. I'm sure every school is aware it isn't binding and you can change your mind via waitlist movement. I definitely recommend sending LOIs/calling your waitlisted school. That interaction will go alot further than using an AMCAS tool.

Good luck to all of you!!! 🙂
 
dmd2023 said:
adcoms using game theory at the macro level, perhaps. i.e. choosing the size of acceptance pool, waitlist pool, yield factors.....But at the micro level? I will be disappointed if that is applicable to choosing to extend an offer by adcom to student A vs student B from the waitlist pool at this point. "Best Fit" from the waitlist is what I hope they apply as a criteria at this point. Everyone on waitlist was chosen because adcom believed they are qualified and can make it through the med school journey.
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Fit is a big part of it, which complicates the payoffs a little more. You can still model it with a game, but I've never bothered to actually try to put something together that takes that into account.

But I already said that on an individual level, fit makes it more difficult to use that simple model.
 
neuro312 said:
To add to your point, would an applicant with 0 acceptances benefit from disclosing that information in an LOI prior to April 30th since schools will see it anyways?

i.e. does game theory ever posit situations where conceding is a good thing? could the admission lead to a stronger formation of trust between school + applicant?

I know admissions isn’t actually this convoluted, just probing with regards to the theory
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Just off the top of my head, I would the payoff for signalling that you are essentially one of the tens of thousands of applicants with no acceptances desperate for a place to matriculate would be lower than simply stating that you want to go there (which, by itself--i.e., without an acceptance you're turning down--may not be worth very much unless you have a great fit with the school).

But AFAIK, schools will only see if you have selected PTE or CTE after April 30, right? If you don't select either of those, even if you have an acceptance, your other schools won't get any info. So it may not be immediately obvious that you have no acceptances if you don't offer that information.

But yeah, this is just nuking it for theory's sake. If you're on a WL and have no acceptances, send some LOIs/update letters to your top schools and pray. That's all you can do. If you have an acceptance but would rather go to one of the schools on you're WLed at, then send an LOI to them saying you're accepted elsewhere and will turn it down for them and pray. That's really all it boils down to. I wouldn't fret too much over PTE/CTE.
 
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