2021-2022 Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences

[deleted555445]

Guys. The school will not close. This **** has been going on since the 80s. These people use USUHS as a way to make it look like they’re doing something so they can put it on their fitreps. The closest they ever came to closing it was in the 90s when it actually got to congress, and Congress immediately shot that idea down.

True its not closing. But this still is not a great sign, an interim president who is adamantly advocating for shrinking military medicine and contracting out instead of commissioning medical officers. He is also leading the search committee for a new president. The skies not falling for sure but definitely doesn't seem like good news for a school that seems under constant threat of being on the chopping block.

Edit: Disclosure, I'm applying this year, this is not an attempt to dissuade anyone else from applying but simply sharing news about the school.

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

True its not closing. But this still is not a great sign, an interim president who is adamantly advocating for shrinking military medicine and contracting out instead of commissioning medical officers. He is also leading the search committee for a new president. The skies not falling for sure but definitely doesn't seem like good news for a school that seems under constant threat of being on the chopping block.

Edit: Disclosure, I'm applying this year, this is not an attempt to dissuade anyone else from applying but simply sharing news about the school.

I mean you can be worried if you want. If the occasional change like this scares you, the military is probably not for you.

 

[deleted555445]

I mean you can be worried if you want. If the occasional change like this scares you, the military is probably not for you.

?? I just thought I'd share an article. Thanks for the advice but I've been in since 2014.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

?? I just thought I'd share an article. Thanks for the advice but I've been in since 2014.

Then you should know that the military is constantly doing **** like this and most of the time nothing ever comes from it. It’s nice that you shared an article since it’s good to be aware of the issues, but you have someone who is a student here telling you it’s not something that should worry you about going to the school, but you’re continuing to post about how it’s bad news and scary.

I’m a third year here. I have no dog in the race so if it makes you concerned, you could always go somewhere else and do hpsp. You should feel comfortable at the school you attend. I’m just saying this is not something to worry about.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Also I’m not trying to be an dingus. It just gets old having to explain it over and over, since this has come up every year since I’ve been a student here. But OSA is very open about everything and would definitely tell us if we had to be concerned.

 

[deleted555445]

Also I’m not trying to be an dingus. It just gets old having to explain it over and over, since this has come up every year since I’ve been a student here. But OSA is very open about everything and would definitely tell us if we had to be concerned.

I get that, I did not appreciate your dismissive attitude but I can see how it might get annoying to address this over and over. I appreciate your insight as a student, I agree that likely nothing will come of this. The obvious political efforts to shutter the school just irritate me, I always hate seeing someone leading an organization with an agenda against that same organization.

But anyways, thanks for the insight and I look forward to asking you more questions as we move through the application process.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I get that, I did not appreciate your dismissive attitude but I can see how it might get annoying to address this over and over. I appreciate your insight as a student, I agree that likely nothing will come of this. The obvious political efforts to shutter the school just irritate me, I always hate seeing someone leading an organization with an agenda against that same organization.

Yes it’s annoying from that aspect too. The school is essentially the naval academy or West Point for medicine. We put so many leaders into the medical corps, and 75% of our grads stay in for 20. Getting rid of USUHS would ultimately cost more money than keeping USUHS open, which everyone who matters knows. That’s why it’ll never close. But it’s still annoying having to hear people talk about it like it makes sense.

But anyways, thanks for the insight and I look forward to asking you more questions as we move through the application process.

Yep! Always happy to answer questions. What branch are you in? I enlisted in the Navy in 2012. Your prior experience will be a nice help for your app.

 

[deleted555445]

Yes it’s annoying from that aspect too. The school is essentially the naval academy or West Point for medicine. We put so many leaders into the medical corps, and 75% of our grads stay in for 20. Getting rid of USUHS would ultimately cost more money than keeping USUHS open, which everyone who matters knows. That’s why it’ll never close. But it’s still annoying having to hear people talk about it like it makes sense.

Yep! Always happy to answer questions. What branch are you in? I enlisted in the Navy in 2012. Your prior experience will be a nice help for your app.

Army, currently in the Guard. Yeah I hope so, I've actually got like 2-3 solid personal and academic connections to USU so I'm hoping to get a little love, but we'll see. From everything I've seen it seems like an awesome program, I'm definitely excited.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Army, currently in the Guard. Yeah I hope so, I've actually got like 2-3 solid personal and academic connections to USU so I'm hoping to get a little love, but we'll see. From everything I've seen it seems like an awesome program, I'm definitely excited.

Wear your uniform to the interview. It’ll make things smooth because they won’t have to ask you any of the awkward “will this person adapt to military life” questions.

 

[deleted555445]

Wear your uniform to the interview. It’ll make things smooth because they won’t have to ask you any of the awkward “will this person adapt to military life” questions.

I'm superstitious, so I'm not going to assume I'll make it that far yet. But I appreciate that.

 

[syphen]

True its not closing. But this still is not a great sign, an interim president who is adamantly advocating for shrinking military medicine and contracting out instead of commissioning medical officers. He is also leading the search committee for a new president. The skies not falling for sure but definitely doesn't seem like good news for a school that seems under constant threat of being on the chopping block.

Edit: Disclosure, I'm applying this year, this is not an attempt to dissuade anyone else from applying but simply sharing news about the school.

I'm in my 3rd year at the Pentagon and I can tell you that even though OSD is pushing for these cuts based on CAPE recommendations, the services are more hesitant. Ultimately they will always fall in line and tell you that "they support the president's budget" once it's been pushed through OSD, but there would likely be a leadership vacuum (long term commitment through HPSP is relatively low) and bad precedent for the service academies (which also produce students at much greater cost than OCS accession or even ROTC). I actually asked CAPT Liotta this question during an open house and he assured me (much like @Matthew9Thirtyfive has been saying) that this dance is a perennial part of the budget cycle and that the school is not under real threat. These conversations are particularly pressurized because of the recent downturn in post-war military spending and will likely become more pressured during this administration.

Worst case scenario, I can see research cuts at USU under the guise of "consolidation" with the NIH. Ultimately, however, Congress makes the budget, not the DoD. If they say no to cuts, then the case is closed. Also kind of insane that we're trying to pinch pennies on service-member health when we literally waste Hundreds of BILLIONS in the Army's bloated budget (we're not occupying much), low yield army and airforce bases, the F-35 fiasco (not even to mention NGAD), aircraft carriers that are incredibly vulnerable and showing rapidly decreasing utility in GPC conflict scenarios, the LCS without a mission, etc...

The downstream effects of cutting the quality of military medicine will be staggering to recruitment, retention, and our medical readiness. No sane person's analysis could think that this is the first itch to scratch, and to reassure you- at least the Navy's Admiralty feels similarly (N8 voted to kick this conversation down the road last year when it was clear that the spending analytics / cuts research had not been sufficient to make an adequate evidence based recommendation. That said, I'm a little scared of the VCNO's continued interest in the proposed cuts.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'm in my 3rd year at the Pentagon and I can tell you that even though OSD is pushing for these cuts based on CAPE recommendations, the services are more hesitant. Ultimately they will always fall in line and tell you that "they support the president's budget" once it's been pushed through OSD, but there would likely be a leadership vacuum (long term commitment through HPSP is relatively low) and bad precedent for the service academies (which also produce students at much greater cost than OCS accession or even ROTC). I actually asked CAPT Liotta this question during an open house and he assured me (much like @Matthew9Thirtyfive has been saying) that this dance is a perennial part of the budget cycle and that the school is not under real threat. These conversations are particularly pressurized because of the recent downturn in post-war military spending and will likely become more pressured during this administration.

Worst case scenario, I can see research cuts at USU under the guise of "consolidation" with the NIH. Ultimately, however, Congress makes the budget, not the DoD. If they say no to cuts, then the case is closed. Also kind of insane that we're trying to pinch pennies on service-member health when we literally waste Hundreds of BILLIONS in the Army's bloated budget (we're not occupying much), low yield army and airforce bases, the F-35 fiasco (not even to mention NGAD), aircraft carriers that are incredibly vulnerable and showing rapidly decreasing utility in GPC conflict scenarios, the LCS without a mission, etc...

The downstream effects of cutting the quality of military medicine will be staggering to recruitment, retention, and our medical readiness. No sane person's analysis could think that this is the first itch to scratch, and to reassure you- at least the Navy's Admiralty feels similarly (N8 voted to kick this conversation down the road last year when it was clear that the spending analytics / cuts research had not been sufficient to make an adequate evidence based recommendation. That said, I'm a little scared of the VCNO's continued interest in the proposed cuts.

Exactly. And FYI, those same people tried to propose cutting over 10k medical positions (including physicians, nurses, etc). Congress halted it immediately. These kinds of conversations are just ways for people to make it look like they’re doing something.

 

[deleted555445]

I'm in my 3rd year at the Pentagon and I can tell you that even though OSD is pushing for these cuts based on CAPE recommendations, the services are more hesitant. Ultimately they will always fall in line and tell you that "they support the president's budget" once it's been pushed through OSD, but there would likely be a leadership vacuum (long term commitment through HPSP is relatively low) and bad precedent for the service academies (which also produce students at much greater cost than OCS accession or even ROTC). I actually asked CAPT Liotta this question during an open house and he assured me (much like @Matthew9Thirtyfive has been saying) that this dance is a perennial part of the budget cycle and that the school is not under real threat. These conversations are particularly pressurized because of the recent downturn in post-war military spending and will likely become more pressured during this administration.

Worst case scenario, I can see research cuts at USU under the guise of "consolidation" with the NIH. Ultimately, however, Congress makes the budget, not the DoD. If they say no to cuts, then the case is closed. Also kind of insane that we're trying to pinch pennies on service-member health when we literally waste Hundreds of BILLIONS in the Army's bloated budget (we're not occupying much), low yield army and airforce bases, the F-35 fiasco (not even to mention NGAD), aircraft carriers that are incredibly vulnerable and showing rapidly decreasing utility in GPC conflict scenarios, the LCS without a mission, etc...

The downstream effects of cutting the quality of military medicine will be staggering to recruitment, retention, and our medical readiness. No sane person's analysis could think that this is the first itch to scratch, and to reassure you- at least the Navy's Admiralty feels similarly (N8 voted to kick this conversation down the road last year when it was clear that the spending analytics / cuts research had not been sufficient to make an adequate evidence based recommendation. That said, I'm a little scared of the VCNO's continued interest in the proposed cuts.

This is an awesome writeup!

 

[DOcSto]

Exactly. And FYI, those same people tried to propose cutting over 10k medical positions (including physicians, nurses, etc). Congress halted it immediately. These kinds of conversations are just ways for people to make it look like they’re doing something.

This is awesome input. As a civilian applying it’s nice to know that I’m not trying to board a sinking ship! Thank you so much!

 

[Malone labe]

This is awesome input. As a civilian applying it’s nice to know that I’m not trying to board a sinking ship! Thank you so much!

The U.S. Military don't build no sinking ships!!!

 

[burrito-consumer]

So when do IIs typically start getting sent out?

 

[DOcSto]

So when do IIs typically start getting sent out?

MSAR says late July/August. I’m betting sometime in August.

 

[zdm2022]

Not sure if this affects anyone, but in case it saves someone an hour or two, please be aware that you should have your prompts saved elsewhere before attempting to submit the secondary. Luckily I typed them in google docs and pasted them over, but I took too long in the portal, and it didn't autosave anything. So I had to start from scratch, but it would've been worse if I hadn't had my essays written somewhere else.

 

[DOcSto]

Not sure if this affects anyone, but in case it saves someone an hour or two, please be aware that you should have your prompts saved elsewhere before attempting to submit the secondary. Luckily I typed them in google docs and pasted them over, but I took too long in the portal, and it didn't autosave anything. So I had to start from scratch, but it would've been worse if I hadn't had my essays written somewhere else.

LOL, the night I submitted mine I filled everything in, hit submit and it gave me a big error message then wouldn't let me log back in. Refreshed the page a couple of times and then put everything in again and thankfully it went through. It was like 10:30 pm and I was just ready to be done for the night!

 

[Incognito32]

So when do IIs typically start getting sent out?

Generally late July/August. The data from the SDN Interview Tracker for 2020-2021 is consistent with this.

If I recall correctly, the users from last cycle's thread started getting II's in late August so I'm going to go with mid-late August this year.

 

[deleted555445]

Generally late July/August. The data from the SDN Interview Tracker for 2020-2021 is consistent with this.

If I recall correctly, the users from last cycle's thread started getting II's in late August so I'm going to go with mid-late August this year.

Hopefully earlier this year because last year the whole cycle was pushed due to COVID, so maybe early-mid August?

 

[Incognito32]

Hopefully earlier this year because last year the whole cycle was pushed due to COVID, so maybe early-mid August?

I hope so! Still waiting on that complete email though

 

[burrito-consumer]

My complete email came 2 days after my secondary submission fyi

 

[nuggeti0i]

So when do IIs typically start getting sent out?

Last year they started going out the first week of September

 

[deleted1108162]

what does this school look for in applicants? and what if stats are slightly below avg of matriculating class?

 

[Incognito32]

what does this school look for in applicants? and what if stats are slightly below avg of matriculating class?

Dedication to service above all else (i.e. "why the military, and why military medicine"). Leadership experiences and GPA are also highly valued. MCAT is important but it definitely has less weight than GPA and it might even be less important than research and clinical/nonclinical volunteering.

Don't worry if your stats are slightly below the average.

 

[deleted555445]

Dedication to service above all else (i.e. "why the military, and why military medicine"). Leadership experiences and GPA are also highly valued. MCAT is important but it definitely has less weight than GPA and it might even be less important than research and clinical/nonclinical volunteering.

Don't worry if your stats are slightly below the average.

Where have you heard that about GPA>MCAT? I have always thought they were weighed equally, and mostly used to evaluate whether you could handle medical school and somewhat disregarded after that.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Where have you heard that about GPA>MCAT? I have always thought they were weighed equally, and mostly used to evaluate whether you could handle medical school and somewhat disregarded after that.

They are not viewed equally at USUHS. MCAT is much less important.

 

[deleted555445]

They are not viewed equally at USUHS. MCAT is much less important.

Good to know. Do you know why? I always assumed USUHS was more interested in your leadership/service leanings and only used stats to determine whether you would succeed in school

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Good to know. Do you know why?

The AAMC states that the MCAT is supposed to be used to determine success in medical school, and a score over a 500 strongly predicts that. USUHS takes that to heart.

 

[deleted555445]

The AAMC states that the MCAT is supposed to be used to determine success in medical school, and a score over a 500 strongly predicts that. USUHS takes that to heart.

I get that, I'm just wondering why they would value GPA more though? Wouldn't it also be a metric to determine success rather than for stratifying applicants?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I get that, I'm just wondering why they would value GPA more though? Wouldn't it also be a metric to determine success rather than for stratifying applicants?

GPA shows continued success and dedication to academics. They don’t just look at the number though. They look at the trends and individual grades.

 

[syphen]

They are not viewed equally at USUHS. MCAT is much less important.

Is this stated policy or just intuition from seeing the process? I have a 517 MCAT but low GPA (3.1) and figured they might offset. If not then I suppose I'm in a lot of trouble.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Is this stated policy or just intuition from seeing the process? I have a 517 MCAT but low GPA (3.1) and figured they might offset. If not then I suppose I'm in a lot of trouble.

It’s stated policy. But a 3.1 isn’t necessarily a death sentence. Depends on the trends and the rest of your app. Holistic review is real here. My gpa was only a 3.4, and I have classmates who had lower than that.

 

[GulfCoastSnapperSlayer]

Dedication to service above all else (i.e. "why the military, and why military medicine"). Leadership experiences and GPA are also highly valued. MCAT is important but it definitely has less weight than GPA and it might even be less important than research and clinical/nonclinical volunteering.

Don't worry if your stats are slightly below the average.

What's one of the most impressive leadership experiences that you've heard about in the student body? I am sure there's a lot given the number of prior officers that matriculate. Y'all ex navy seals and astronauts better be sweating about my esteemed role as cub scout assistant chaplain 😎

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What's one of the most impressive leadership experiences that you've heard about in the student body? I am sure there's a lot given the number of prior officers that matriculate. Y'all ex navy seals and astronauts better be sweating about my esteemed role as cub scout assistant chaplain 😎

Actually only about 20% of the class is prior service and another 20% are academy grads. So 60% of the class has no military experience. You’re in good company.

 

[deleted1108162]

Do you know how fast we'll hear back from them for II if we were complete by end of July?

 

[Malone labe]

Do you know how fast we'll hear back from them for II if we were complete by end of July?

Do we need to email assigned advisor before we receive email that we are complete? - Or do they send those out after a pair of eyes have reviewed your application and placed them in a complete pile? I think this kind of relates to your question, so my guess is that if/when you receive a complete email (as someone above said they had already), that will give you an idea that your application is at least complete. However, at the end of the day, I suppose the committee will determine if/when people will get interviews, unrelated to date of submission. Hopefully they consider/give preference to those who submitted early though. Fingers crossed!

 

[deleted555445]

Do we need to email assigned advisor before we receive email that we are complete? - Or do they send those out after a pair of eyes have reviewed your application and placed them in a complete pile? I think this kind of relates to your question, so my guess is that if/when you receive a complete email (as someone above said they had already), that will give you an idea that your application is at least complete. However, at the end of the day, I suppose the committee will determine if/when people will get interviews, unrelated to date of submission. Hopefully they consider/give preference to those who submitted early though. Fingers crossed!

I submitted my application sometime very soon after I got it (June 28th maybe?) but was waiting on my last LOR for a while. The next business day after that LOR was submitted I was sent a complete email. I did not reach out to anyone before receiving that complete email.

 

[Malone labe]

I submitted my application sometime very soon after I got it (June 28th maybe?) but was waiting on my last LOR for a while. The next business day after that LOR was submitted I was sent a complete email. I did not reach out to anyone before receiving that complete email.

Thanks for the reply!! That's a relief because I too applied very early, albeit I had to wait a few more weeks for verification before I could submit Pre-reqs. Nonetheless, I've been worried I was supposed to have emailed my counselor I was complete because I haven't received the complete email and I've literally had everything submitted for what seems like three weeks now. I thought I had read something about doing that, but it may have only been applicable under extenuating circumstances. Hopefully I'll get the complete here soon lol. Cheers

 

[deleted555445]

Thanks for the reply!! That's a relief because I too applied very early, albeit I had to wait a few more weeks for verification before I could submit Pre-reqs. Nonetheless, I've been worried I was supposed to have emailed my counselor I was complete because I haven't received the complete email and I've literally had everything submitted for what seems like three weeks now. I thought I had read something about doing that, but it may have only been applicable under extenuating circumstances. Hopefully I'll get the complete here soon lol. Cheers

Hmm maybe the counselors are just working at different speeds, and mine managed to mark me complete immediately. If you're sure everything is in then I would give it a little bit longer before I check with them.

 

[zdm2022]

I definitely received a completion email 5min after emailing my advisor

 

[Incognito32]

Thanks for the reply!! That's a relief because I too applied very early, albeit I had to wait a few more weeks for verification before I could submit Pre-reqs. Nonetheless, I've been worried I was supposed to have emailed my counselor I was complete because I haven't received the complete email and I've literally had everything submitted for what seems like three weeks now. I thought I had read something about doing that, but it may have only been applicable under extenuating circumstances. Hopefully I'll get the complete here soon lol. Cheers

I submitted everything back in mid-late July and never received an indication that I was "complete". I just emailed my advisor who basically told me "I forgot to use the word 'complete' in that email".

 

[deleted555445]

I submitted everything back in mid-late July and never received an indication that I was "complete". I just emailed my advisor who basically told me "I forgot to use the word 'complete' in that email".

Lol okay I just checked my email and it never used the word “complete” but it said was that everything was submitted and I didn’t have to do anything else, if they needed something from me they’d contact me. Which to me feels like a complete email

 

[deleted1066172]

Lol okay I just checked my email and it never used the word “complete” but it said was that everything was submitted and I didn’t have to do anything else, if they needed something from me they’d contact me. Which to me feels like a complete email

I checked the portal and it says that they do not send email confirmations that your application is complete, the message on the portal serves as this notification. I submitted back at the end of June and haven't heard anything since, but assumed this was OK based on that message within the secondary portal.

 

[AH77]

Has anyone had luck only having academic recommendations and no clinical experience? I am applying for the 2022 year for the Clinical Psychology- Military Track.

 

[Macro_Corneaphage]

II! Super excited as this a top choice of mine!!

 

[ItsGoingTibiaOK]

II! Super excited as this a top choice of mine!!

When did you submit your secondary?

 

[deleted555445]

II! Super excited as this a top choice of mine!!

Congrats! Hoping to hear some good news soon too!

 

[Macro_Corneaphage]

When did you submit your secondary?

June 25!