ATSU SOMA vs. NSUCOM

[IDK22]

I feel very lucky to have been accepted into two great programs, however I am having a bit of a hard time deciding which would be the best place to attend (currently interested in pursing an ACGME EM program). Would really like to hear from any current students who attend either school or others who are familiar with each or one of these programs.

PRO/CONS LIST:

ATSU SOMA
Pros:
- really enjoyed my interview day here, felt as though I connected well with faculty/students and mission of the school
- close to home for first year (CA)
- opportunity to live in either NY or DC during second, third and fourth year
- very small class (~100 students)
- virtual anatomy lab
- Clinical Presentation curriculum + systems based
- early clinical exposure during second year by working in a community health center (a really unique curriculum that might distinguish me as a residency applicant?)
- more of a laid back vibe amongst faculty/staff/students

Cons:
- online lectures during second year (how big of a deal is this compared to being in a lecture hall? Don't most students during second year study by watching lectures from home, anyways?)
- have to adjust moving to a new city during second year (which is the toughest)
- slightly lower board scores than NSU
- not as established/ well known
- heavily focused on primary care


NOVA
Pros:
- excellent reputation in the DO world and in south Florida
- tons of research opportunities/ opportunities to get involved in international trips and engage in community service
- remain in one place for all four years
- higher first time pass rate for COMLEX (and assuming USMLE too)
- strong rotation sites for third year
- stronger connections with alumni throughout Florida/country
- really emphasizes professionalism amongst students/staff/faculty which I liked
- new Dean seems to have a great vision for the school.

Cons:
- didn't get the same excitement overall from the school as I did from SOMA
- large class size (~230)
- rural rotation during fourth year
- MD program to be built in coming years (which seems a little shady and makes it look like NSU is all about the $$$...?)
- lots of exams during first year, not systems based
- didn't think the HPD building where classes, labs, etc. are was that impressive
- not as much of a support network in FL compared to AZ/DC/NY

After interviewing at each, I realized that these programs are polar opposites. I feel as though I could do well and be happy at either, but would like to get some opinions/insight from my fellow SDNers! Thanks in advance.

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[IslandStyle808]

NSU

 

[IDK22]

NSU

Thanks! Any particular insight/reasons why? Will ATSU limit me if I felt more comfortable there?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Thanks! Any particular insight/reasons why?

The biggest thing with me is the rotations. For the most part, most of NSU rotations are within the local area. With NSU being the local school, there is a far less chance of students being dropped from rotations. This is especially true with the current school expansions happening. Combine that with the fact the school has been around for a longtime and you can be sure the affiliations are strong.

With ATSU-SOMA, the CHC sites are spread throughout the continental USA. With the low amount of student and the home school being far away, the likely hood of being dropped from a rotation is higher. Don't get me wrong some of the CHC sites are solid like the ones you have stated. However, with school expanding out the likelihood of dropped rotation seems like a possibility with some CHC sites. The CHC in my home state closed down due to the local MD school expanding out and signing contracts with the local hospitals taking taking their students first and foremost.

There is more safety with NSU.

 

[IDK22]

The biggest thing with me is the rotations. For the most part, most of NSU rotations are within the local area. With NSU being the local school, there is a far less chance of students being dropped from rotations. This is especially true with the current school expansions happening. Combine that with the fact the school has been around for a longtime and you can be sure the affiliations are strong.

With ATSU-SOMA, the CHC sites are spread throughout the continental USA. With the low amount of student and the home school being far away, the likely hood of being dropped from a rotation is higher. Don't get me wrong some of the CHC sites are solid like the ones you have listed. However, with school expanding out the likelihood of dropped rotation seems like a possibility with some CHC sites. The CHC in my home state closed down due to the local MD school expanding out and signing contracts with the local hospitals taking taking their students first and foremost.

There is more safety with NSU.

Thanks for that!

From my understanding with ATSU SOMA, the rotation sites for NY is 100% at NYU Lutheran Medical Center in Brooklyn (as it has been for many years without issue). DC it is Providence Hospital in D.C. (as it has been for the past 4 years without issue)--- with DC there are only a handful of med schools in the area (Howard, GW, Georgetown).

Plus, with NSU I think there's probably more med students to compete against with all the other MD schools in the region if I'm not mistaken?

If I get one of these sites (NY/DC), wouldn't it be fair to say that I should be secure for 3rd year rotations? The CHC site you mentioned closing down-- was that a site affiliated with ATSU SOMA?

Rotations aside, though is one school particularly going to offer me more than the other or should I go with where I felt the most comfortable?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Thanks for that!

From my understanding with ATSU SOMA, the rotation sites for NY is 100% at NYU Lutheran Medical Center in Brooklyn (as it has been for many years without issue). DC it is Providence Hospital in D.C. (as it has been for the past 4 years without issue)--- with DC there are only a handful of med schools in the area (Howard, GW, Georgetown).

Plus, with NSU I think there's probably more med students to compete against with all the other MD schools in the region if I'm not mistaken?

If I get one of these sites (NY/DC), wouldn't it be fair to say that I should be secure for 3rd year rotations? The CHC site you mentioned closing down-- was that a site affiliated with ATSU SOMA?

Rotations aside, though is one school particularly going to offer me more than the other or should I go with where I felt the most comfortable?

In the end, where you are comfortable is most important. They are both great schools and both will take you where you need to go. NSU probably has the edge in clinical rotations and research. However, it is all a matter of what your goals are in life and which school best meets those goals. Good luck and congrats to you!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Personally I would choose NOVA because the rotations there are most likely far better overall. Also with how well known it is you are getting a known quantity. But honestly the difference is probably not worth it if you feel more comfortable at SOMA. Go where you feel comfortable. Both can take you where you want to go

 

[IDK22]

Personally I would choose NOVA because the rotations there are most likely far better overall. Also with how well known it is you are getting a known quantity. But honestly the difference is probably not worth it if you feel more comfortable at SOMA. Go where you feel comfortable. Both can take you where you want to go

Thanks! When comparing the "quality" or "strength" of rotations, what exactly does this entail? Exposure to patients/procedures? Hospital name? One on one time with attendings? Academic setting vs. community setting?

Are where you do your 3rd year rotations more important than the recommendations receive from preceptors when it comes to applying for residency? What's the most important part to get out of 3rd year rotations?

 

[AlteredScale]

Thanks! When comparing the "quality" or "strength" of rotations, what exactly does this entail? Exposure to patients/procedures? Hospital name? One on one time with attendings? Academic setting vs. community setting?

Are where you do your 3rd year rotations more important than the recommendations receive from preceptors when it comes to applying for residency? What's the most important part to get out of 3rd year rotations?

Quality and strength of rotations specifically for DO schools is focused in on if it's a preceptor based (working one on one with a attending) vs wards based (working with a resident team). You should always shoot for a stronger academic setting since as a resident, that is the setting you will be in. An academic/teaching hospital is a hospital with GME and resident training. A non-academic community hospital has no GME. Again, your 3rd year is training you to be a RESIDENT so you want to do rotations with residents to understand how the dynamics of rounds, prerounds, noon conferences, M&M conferences, grand rounds all works. You won't get that on a preceptor based rotation.

The most important part of 3rd year is learning to work like a resident. It's not your job to be first assist during your surgical rotation and learning how to first assist during a choly is not going to impress a program director or their resident team. It really won't. What's better is to learn how to properly work up a patient and present that patient to your team and have a thorough reasoning for your plan of action to manage them.

Preceptor-based works better for rotations that have a more outpatient emphasis such as FM, Peds, Psych. But IM and Surgery? Def go for wards-based.

Just as an FYI, beyond third year. You should spend a considerable amount of time fourth year doing your electives and auditions at academic university hospitals. One of the most successful grads from my school spent most if not all his 3rd year at wards based rotations while using his fourth year to continue fortifying their skills by being at university hospitals and garnering strong LORs from dept chairs. They are now at a very good IM university residency program on the east coast.

 

[AlteredScale]

Also moving to school specific discussions.

 

[IDK22]

Quality and strength of rotations specifically for DO schools is focused in on if it's a preceptor based (working one on one with a attending) vs wards based (working with a resident team). You should always shoot for a stronger academic setting since as a resident, that is the setting you will be in. An academic/teaching hospital is a hospital with GME and resident training. A non-academic community hospital has no GME. Again, your 3rd year is training you to be a RESIDENT so you want to do rotations with residents to understand how the dynamics of rounds, prerounds, noon conferences, M&M conferences, grand rounds all works. You won't get that on a preceptor based rotation.

The most important part of 3rd year is learning to work like a resident. It's not your job to be first assist during your surgical rotation and learning how to first assist during a choly is not going to impress a program director or their resident team. It really won't. What's better is to learn how to properly work up a patient and present that patient to your team and have a thorough reasoning for your plan of action to manage them.

Preceptor-based works better for rotations that have a more outpatient emphasis such as FM, Peds, Psych. But IM and Surgery? Def go for wards-based.

Great description, thank you!

The hospital at the DC campus for ATSU is Providence with the following description for its academic component:

"Providence is the primary site of inpatient teaching in the Internal Medicine Residency Program. In addition to Providence's Internal Medicine Residency, the Hospital has a residency in Family Practice and a Geriatrics Fellowship Program, both affiliated with Georgetown University. The Family Practice Residency Program provides an office practice at the Fort Lincoln Family Medicine Center in Colmar Manor, Maryland, a model teaching facility jointly operated by Providence and Georgetown.

Residents from Howard University in General Surgery, Orthopaedics and OB/GYN rotate through the Hospital. Psychiatry residents from St. Elizabeth's Hospital complete rotations for experience in Internal Medicine. Providence also has a minor affiliation with George Washington University Hospital."

How would this rank up in describing "strength" of a rotation? Would this be disadvantageous to me hoping for an EM residency down the line given there is no EM residency at this rotation?

 

[AlteredScale]

Great description, thank you!

The hospital at the DC campus for ATSU is Providence with the following description for its academic component:

"Providence is the primary site of inpatient teaching in the Internal Medicine Residency Program. In addition to Providence's Internal Medicine Residency, the Hospital has a residency in Family Practice and a Geriatrics Fellowship Program, both affiliated with Georgetown University. The Family Practice Residency Program provides an office practice at the Fort Lincoln Family Medicine Center in Colmar Manor, Maryland, a model teaching facility jointly operated by Providence and Georgetown.

Residents from Howard University in General Surgery, Orthopaedics and OB/GYN rotate through the Hospital. Psychiatry residents from St. Elizabeth's Hospital complete rotations for experience in Internal Medicine. Providence also has a minor affiliation with George Washington University Hospital."

How would this rank up in describing "strength" of a rotation? Would this be disadvantageous to me hoping for an EM residency down the line given there is no EM residency at this rotation?

I think ATSU-SOMA has had a great record of having strong clinical rotation sites. Providence would be good for rotations. It has a solid amount of GME and experience with teaching.

This would not be a suitable place to get strong EM training thus you would spend your fourth year "making up for it" by doing an EM elective at a academic tertiary level I trauma hospital.

Honestly NSU and SOMA will both be fine for clinical training. I myself am not a fan of the CHC model for ATSU simply because having the home inst near you personally sounds more appealing. But the American Medical Associates and the AAMC seemed to like it and recruited ATSU as one of the members for the advancement of medical education consortium next to Harvard, Stanford, and UWashington.

 

[IDK22]

I think ATSU-SOMA has had a great record of having strong clinical rotation sites. Providence would be good for rotations. It has a solid amount of GME and experience with teaching.

This would not be a suitable place to get strong EM training thus you would spend your fourth year "making up for it" by doing an EM elective at a academic tertiary level I trauma hospital.

Honestly NSU and SOMA will both be fine for clinical training. I myself am not a fan of the CHC model for ATSU simply because having the home inst near you personally sounds more appealing. But the American Medical Associates and the AAMC seemed to like it and recruited ATSU as one of the members for the advancement of medical education consortium next to Harvard, Stanford, and UWashington.

appreciate it @AlteredScale !

 

[futuredoc654321]

Where did you decide? I'm in the same situation and am so torn between both schools