Baylor vs. Southwestern

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Yeah that's partly why I was surprised to read that on wiki and why I had a hard time believing the claim.

I am positive that is not true and anyway, it was removed from wiki, so its probably wrong.

What I DO know, however, is that BCM had the second highest average STEP1 score in the country and that (at least last year) the student with the lowest score in the entire class scored the national mean...so I really doubt they have anything but an exceptional match list..
 
I am positive that is not true and anyway, it was removed from wiki, so its probably wrong.

What I DO know, however, is that BCM had the second highest average STEP1 score in the country and that (at least last year) the student with the lowest score in the entire class scored the national mean...so I really doubt they have anything but an exceptional match list..

THAT seems like it has to be a bit of an exaggeration (I can't imagine that the LOWEST scoring student was at the national mean). But it would not surprise me if BCM had the second highest STEP1 score, or were at least near the very top; my histology prof has repeatedly told us how we have quite the legacy to live up to, as we have finished higher than places like Harvard and Hopkins in several years. I think our abbreviated 1.5 year preclinical curriculum has a lot to do with it, where we get some real clinical experience before having to take it.
 
When I started this process I was (optimistically) hoping to be in this situation. Now it's here 🙂 and I still don't know how I will make up my mind. They are both excellent schools. Second-looks and FA, I guess. Thanks to everyone adding their thoughts and experiences.
 
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Howdy all,

I am a second year at Baylor, and there seems to be a lot of confused rumors spreading about Baylor as of late so let me clear some things up.

1.) Baylor vs. Methodist: Firstly, this split happened a 5 years ago. It is quite sad that it happened, but it will not majorly affect your education. We now rotate through St. Luke's & the Baylor clinic for our private hospital experience, and the revenue the school lost through the Methodist association has been more than recouped via the Baylor Clinic. This is Old News

2.) Baylor Rank Dropped: It is true that we have gone from 11-17 according to USNEWS. Ironically UTSW may be to blame for this. Baylor currently shares significant reasearch funding and faculty with M.D. Anderson (#1 cancer hospital country), but anderson is principally affiliated with the UT system schools. Now, According to our current president UTSW made a big stink about Baylor reporting this money for USNEWS rankning (Don't ask me why UTSW cares and not UTH 🙄). So Baylor conceded and didn't report the money, and our rank slipped. Ironically our research collaboration with Anderson has since increased, and according to USNEWS's algorithm would put us back into the top 10.

3.) Baylor's Financial Situation: This is where the rubber really meets the road. Baylor decided to build a hospital (see Methodist split) the cost estimates undershot the project by 200 million dollars. Then to make matters worse the financial markets collapsed last year, and like many prominent institutions we have been limping along trying to recover. This is where the merger talks with Rice University comes in. They can give us a stable financial footing, while we enhance their prestige and research ranking. Win-win right? So far things seem to be going well, but Rice does not want be in the business of running a hospital. So Baylor now needs to find a clinical partner to help manage the new Baylor hospital, and this is where the negotiations are today. If the merger is to go through a final decision should be made by this January (and should give you ample time to decide if you wish to attend next year).

4.) The Questions You Really Should be Asking: All of the above issues will have a major impact on Baylor as an institution, but will unlikely affect your experiences while at med school. If you really want to compare BCM to UTSW you should look at where they differ and how it will affect your experience. Baylor is now straight pass-fail. UTSW last I looked is on the ABCDF system. Baylor does not curve exams. Again, last I checked, UTSW does bell curve some exams. BCM has 1.5 years of basic sci. UTSW has 2. BCM gives you 50 weeks of unallocated (elective/vacation/research) time during your clinical rotations. BCM is in the Texas f'ing Med Center, which gives you access to some of the most unique clinical experiences you'll find in the country (Fetal Surgery etc.). Ultimately, what comes down to is go to the school where you feel like you would fit in. The personality of a given program, and how well you mesh with it will have a major impact on well you enjoy medical school.
Excellent explanation Bowtie! Thanks.

BCM - Thee texas med center district - MD Anderson - TCH - pediatric cardiothoracic surgery ranked 3rd (maybe 4th?) in the nation. Texas Heart Institute - Denton Cooley, who worked with Blalock (Thomas) for the Blalock-Taussig shunt, heart transplant... etc legend!

I hope to be surrounded in greatness when I attend medical school - BCM will be my #1 choice when I apply in 2010!
 
Thanks to everyone who has posted information -- I'm in the same boat deciding between the two and have no idea how I'm going to choose at this point! But this definitely helps.
 
THAT seems like it has to be a bit of an exaggeration (I can't imagine that the LOWEST scoring student was at the national mean). But it would not surprise me if BCM had the second highest STEP1 score, or were at least near the very top; my histology prof has repeatedly told us how we have quite the legacy to live up to, as we have finished higher than places like Harvard and Hopkins in several years. I think our abbreviated 1.5 year preclinical curriculum has a lot to do with it, where we get some real clinical experience before having to take it.

among other things, i hear the biggest asset you all have is getting to 8 wks off during third yr to study for the step.
 
Sorry I took so long to reply to your PM, I was off studying for STEP 2 and then interview season started up.



Answer to your question: I have no idea. I imagine both have stellar match lists and the top students can go wherever they want. However, UT Southwestern students definitely have a strong bias towards staying home. First, most of them are from Texas and second, UT Southwestern is extremely strong clinically.

As students, you have access to see who was AOA in previous classes and where they matched. A very large proportion of them stay at UT Southwestern; those who don't, tend to go to Johns Hopkins, UCSF, etc. For instance, 3 AOA students are applying for anesthesia this year and all have expressed their desire to stay (all are engaged/married). I bet they could easily go to Brigham, Stanford, Duke, etc if they wanted to because I am no where near AOA and even I am getting those types of interviews.

Personally, I was 99.9% sure I was leaving. I even told the Chair I wanted to leave. Now, after interviewing at UChicago, Northwestern, insert big name here and Columbia, Yale coming up, I am beginning to strongly reconsider. Most programs simply don't have the breadth and volume that UT Southwestern offers and I was literally shocked to see how malignant some top programs are. You certainly pay a hefty price for the name. In addition, the decision for residency is greatly different from choosing medical school. You have to take into consideration that where you do your residency will strongly impact where you practice. Texas is one of the best states for medical practice due to high salaries, tort reform, etc and breaking into markets like Dallas and Austin requires heavy networking. Hence, UT Southwestern becomes a great asset.

That said, at an advisory meeting, we were told that even 4th quarter students last year were getting interviews in IM from Duke, WashU, Northwestern. Also, the Chief Residents in Medicine at Duke, Wash U, and a couple of other top IM programs this year are former UT Southwestern students, so you will definitely be well-connected if you choose to leave.

Hope that helps, good luck!

that does help, thanks. at the same time, it really makes the decision b/w both schools tough.
 
among other things, i hear the biggest asset you all have is getting to 8 wks off during third yr to study for the step.

That also definitely helps; a lot of students do take some of that elective time to prep for step 1. Lots of students will actually take a whole year of clinicals, then take time off in the middle of the third year and take Step 1 in January of their 3rd year. Suffice to say, our step scores are consistently among the very best in the country; our website reports an average score of 239 last year (222 national average), which according to the STEP 1 scores compilation thread, puts us right up there with or higher than many of the top 10 schools for which data can be found.

Of course, UTSW students do great on Step 1 as well, I'm sure. I'm just saying that our Step scores are definitely something that Baylor is very proud of, for good reason, and I do think our condensed preclinical curriculum and many hours of elective credit helps us.
 
Suffice to say, our step scores are consistently among the very best in the country; our website reports an average score of 239 last year (222 national average), which according to the STEP 1 scores compilation thread, puts us right up there with or higher than many of the top 10 schools for which data can be found.

This is one of those topics that I think many applicants overlook. Your STEP score is hugely important, and USNEWS doesn't use it in their ranking methods. Granted, testing is a very individualized thing, and your MCAT score is probably the biggest predictor. However, the average Baylor student spends 12 months in clinics and takes ~2months off to study for the STEP. In clinics you get to finally apply your basic science knowledge, and will take 5-7 shelf exams which are very similar in style and format to the STEP. This is the reason Baylor students do well:
1) pre-select high test performers
2) 1 year of clinics
3) ample time to study/prepare.
 
something else you should consider....
UT Southwestern at Dallas is home of the COWBOYS!! 😉

i thought i would throw this in, seeing as how they just beat the former undefeated Saints :laugh:
 
something else you should consider....
UT Southwestern at Dallas is home of the COWBOYS!! 😉

i thought i would throw this in, seeing as how they just beat the former undefeated Saints :laugh:

Does this just mean that UTSW is just bound to disappoint?
 
I don't mean to be rude... but the initial question is pretty ridiculous and doesn't need answering. Bottom line: apply to both. If you have the opportunity to interview at both you will come to understand that they are very different schools and attract different types of people. They both have their +'s and -'s that will be mostly dependent on the individual. You aren't going to understand the real differences until you visit.

There are plenty of schools out there that will give you an excellent education, surround you with excellent people, and provide you the opportunity to get nearly anywhere you could dream.
 
I don't mean to be rude... but the initial question is pretty ridiculous and doesn't need answering. Bottom line: apply to both. If you have the opportunity to interview at both you will come to understand that they are very different schools and attract different types of people. They both have their +'s and -'s that will be mostly dependent on the individual. You aren't going to understand the real differences until you visit.

This is one of the best posts on this thread.
👍
 
I don't mean to be rude... but the initial question is pretty ridiculous and doesn't need answering. Bottom line: apply to both. If you have the opportunity to interview at both you will come to understand that they are very different schools and attract different types of people. They both have their +'s and -'s that will be mostly dependent on the individual. You aren't going to understand the real differences until you visit.

There are plenty of schools out there that will give you an excellent education, surround you with excellent people, and provide you the opportunity to get nearly anywhere you could dream.

Hmm, I think the question was asking about which school you'd choose if accepted to both. Not whether he/she should apply to both.

I completely agree with you about the differences between the schools. I interviewed at both, and the best match for me was clearly Baylor. To each his own, as they say.
 
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canjosh, can I ask you why Baylor? Was it just a feel? Or something you can articulate? I liked both, and felt comfortable about both. I like the 18 month pre-clinical better at Baylor, and fwiw the P/F. There were things I felt better about at Southwestern, too and I like the direction they seem to be heading. I have to admit, Baylor's financial woes make me a little nervous but I don't see that altering our medical education as much as the "ranking", whatever that means for us. I know I started with Baylor a slight favorite but I was VERY impressed with the student body at Southwestern and that, and the financial stuff, have made this an even harder call.

Every physician I talk to suggests we should make our decisions based more on the clinical years, but how exactly are we supposed to do that? 😕 I was more impressed with Parkland and Children's than I was with the whole "TMC opportunities" thing. I mean, they may have been dealing with a Saudi Arabian prince ....but it's unlikely I'd have been in that room. 😉
 
If you have the opportunity to interview at both you will come to understand that they are very different schools and attract different types of people. They both have their +'s and -'s that will be mostly dependent on the individual. You aren't going to understand the real differences until you visit.
flashback, can you be more specific? Maybe I just consider myself adaptable, but I felt comfortable at both. Or maybe I need another visit.
 
This is true...word on the street is that Baylor didn't want to give up its autonomy. I was for the merger, but considering that BCM has turned its finances around and is back in the green (at least for the past fiscal year) it looks like this might be the best thing. BCM was definitely hit hard by the economic crisis -- but then again, so was everyone -- and since the Baylor Clinic has become incredibly lucrative, it looks like Baylor is back on track.

Not that any of this would affect the med students themselves, IMO, but it's great to see that the books are being balanced -- not to mention the HUGE amount of research money that has been granted to the school this year.
 
This is true...word on the street is that Baylor didn't want to give up its autonomy. I was for the merger, but considering that BCM has turned its finances around and is back in the green (at least for the past fiscal year) it looks like this might be the best thing. BCM was definitely hit hard by the economic crisis -- but then again, so was everyone -- and since the Baylor Clinic has become incredibly lucrative, it looks like Baylor is back on track.

Not that any of this would affect the med students themselves, IMO, but it's great to see that the books are being balanced -- not to mention the HUGE amount of research money that has been granted to the school this year.

So, where are you planning to go?
 
So, where are you planning to go?

I still haven't decided for sure yet. But I'm leaning towards Baylor at this point even in light of this recent news. I don't think there's a "right" answer as to where to go between these two -- they are both wonderful schools.

The 1.5 year basic science curriculum and #2 board scores in the country are selling points for me (and I was told the USMLE numbers from an administrator at BCM, not from SDN. So I'm confident that they are true.) And the TMC is just mind-blowingly awesome.

But ultimately, I think it almost comes down to a gut feeling at this point. I felt that Baylor was very honest and was not trying to sell itself -- simply presenting itself as it is. That the school is private and has a smaller class is another thing, but neither of those points rank very highly on my list as to what's important.

One of my friends has been accepted to one school and not the other at this point, and she almost seems relieved that she won't have to pick between the two. It's a tough one for sure! I hope you end up where it feels right to you.
 
This is true...word on the street is that Baylor didn't want to give up its autonomy. I was for the merger, but considering that BCM has turned its finances around and is back in the green (at least for the past fiscal year) it looks like this might be the best thing. BCM was definitely hit hard by the economic crisis -- but then again, so was everyone -- and since the Baylor Clinic has become incredibly lucrative, it looks like Baylor is back on track.

Not that any of this would affect the med students themselves, IMO, but it's great to see that the books are being balanced -- not to mention the HUGE amount of research money that has been granted to the school this year.
I agree with most of this; however to be fair I do think that Rice's reluctance to take on the building of a private teaching hospital in the future Baylor Hospital as well as their concerns about our current lack of a main clinical partner should not be overlooked. Again, none of that affects the medical school, but I think it is something of an overstatement to say that BCM was the only one that walked away from the table. Also, the Chronicle story suggests that we might be exploring options with Baylor University in Waco; I'm not sure what to make of this and wouldn't want to speculate until more facts are available.

Again, none of this affects the medical school education. If anything, the fact that we have ties to so many different hospitals in the TMC rather than focusing at one hospitals gives Baylor students a wide breadth of experiences. This financial business, for the most part, is something for people in suits to worry about, not med students.
I still haven't decided for sure yet. But I'm leaning towards Baylor at this point even in light of this recent news. I don't think there's a "right" answer as to where to go between these two -- they are both wonderful schools.

The 1.5 year basic science curriculum and #2 board scores in the country are selling points for me (and I was told the USMLE numbers from an administrator at BCM, not from SDN. So I'm confident that they are true.) And the TMC is just mind-blowingly awesome.

But ultimately, I think it almost comes down to a gut feeling at this point. I felt that Baylor was very honest and was not trying to sell itself -- simply presenting itself as it is. That the school is private and has a smaller class is another thing, but neither of those points rank very highly on my list as to what's important.

One of my friends has been accepted to one school and not the other at this point, and she almost seems relieved that she won't have to pick between the two. It's a tough one for sure! I hope you end up where it feels right to you.
These are all good reasons to me 🙂
 
I hope that BCM doesn't merge back with BU...many of the pioneering fields at BCM may be in conflict with BU's baptist point of views.

Why does BCM still need to merge with another institution at all, if things are going well like someone mentioned previously?
 
...many of the pioneering fields at BCM may be in conflict with BU's baptist point of views.

Agreed - but if part of the Rice dissolution was lack of autonomy, it's hard to imagine that they would agree to LESS autonomy with Baylor. And regardless, it's pretty pointless (but tempting nonetheless!) for us to speculate about it - there's undoubtedly tons of backdoor meetings going on that none of us knows anything about.
 
I hope that BCM doesn't merge back with BU...many of the pioneering fields at BCM may be in conflict with BU's baptist point of views.

Why does BCM still need to merge with another institution at all, if things are going well like someone mentioned previously?

Because they are not doing well at all.
 
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I was for the merger, but considering that BCM has turned its finances around and is back in the green (at least for the past fiscal year) it looks like this might be the best thing. BCM was definitely hit hard by the economic crisis -- but then again, so was everyone -- and since the Baylor Clinic has become incredibly lucrative, it looks like Baylor is back on track.
Because they are not going well at all.
Links or cites? I'm very interested.
 
Because they are not doing well at all.

Disagree. I'm a current student and we've received several e-mails from the President of BCM that this is simply not the case. As another poster mentioned, the Baylor Clinic is really bringing us back to black and restructuring efforts have cut excess spending.

A merger would have had little to do with the day-to-day financial aspects of the school, but more about combining forces in research domains to build up that aspect of the institution and allowing us to move up in the rankings as far as grant funding goes.
 
Disagree. I'm a current student and we've received several e-mails from the President of BCM that this is simply not the case. As another poster mentioned, the Baylor Clinic is really bringing us back to black and restructuring efforts have cut excess spending.

A merger would have had little to do with the day-to-day financial aspects of the school, but more about combining forces in research domains to build up that aspect of the institution and allowing us to move up in the rankings as far as grant funding goes.


Not to be cynical or disparaging, but entering into merger discussions with Baylor University (especially so soon after the merger talks with Rice fell through) seems like an attempt to stabilize troubled finances. Baylor University, while a great undergraduate school has a fledgling graduate program - merging with them is hardly going to improve BCM's rankings.

And of course Dr. Butler isn't going to admit a bad situation - BCM tried to shrug off the Methodist split like it was nothing, even though it was the most devastating thing to occur in the TMC since DeBakey brought BCM to Houston.

I really hope BCM gets everything sorted out, it would be a shame to see such a well positioned institution falter. But it's also dangerous to overlook warning signs such as these. While I agree that the preclinical curriculum will remain steady as ever, the clinical rotations are taught by faculty - whose appointments are highly dependent on finances. The strength of rotations are more about who is teaching you rather than where you are being taught (although that is important also).
 
Not to be cynical or disparaging, but entering into merger discussions with Baylor University (especially so soon after the merger talks with Rice fell through) seems like an attempt to stabilize troubled finances. Baylor University, while a great undergraduate school has a fledgling graduate program - merging with them is hardly going to improve BCM's rankings.

And of course Dr. Butler isn't going to admit a bad situation - BCM tried to shrug off the Methodist split like it was nothing, even though it was the most devastating thing to occur in the TMC since DeBakey brought BCM to Houston.

I really hope BCM gets everything sorted out, it would be a shame to see such a well positioned institution falter. But it's also dangerous to overlook warning signs such as these. While I agree that the preclinical curriculum will remain steady as ever, the clinical rotations are taught by faculty - whose appointments are highly dependent on finances. The strength of rotations are more about who is teaching you rather than where you are being taught (although that is important also).

First of all, rotations aren't in jeopardy and never have been. Baylor partners with many more institutions than just Methodist. Ben Taub, Texas Children's, and VA are still main partners. Plus, even though we've technically split with Methodist, students still rotate there. If private hospital experience is what you're concerned about, students rotate at St. Luke's as well.

You're entitled to your opinion in these matters, but the fact is that the merger did not fail because of rejection on the side of Rice. This was a mutual parting of ways. And from what I've heard on the subject of the Baylor and BCM merger, it would be no where near the same level of involvement that there would have been with Rice. Baylor is not going to be "running" BCM. If that was the intent, BCM would have stayed with Rice.
 
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6827333.html
I'm currently a student at Southwestern. Both are great schools. I personally love it here though. I knew from the moment I interviewed that Dallas was the place for me.

Go where your heart tells you to go. My best friend is having the time of his life at Baylor and nothing that's going on in the news seems to be affecting his learning. I know he's going to do great no matter what. Go where you'll be happiest!

Best of luck!
 
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I just want to note that, in addition to all the other pro BCM reasons people have posted, I am choosing Baylor because in my two visits to UTSW, when I asked students "Why did you go here?" pretty much every single one said "For the name." When I asked BCM students the same question, pretty much every one said "For the people."

Even though I knew these responses are not 100% true of everyone at these schools, the difference was striking to me. It's just the kind of person I am that I felt that I would be a better fit at BCM. Not saying that choosing based on the prestige of a school is bad, it's just not my style.
 
Hello everyone,

I am a recent UTSW graduate who is now in Chicago for my residency. I used to visit this website while I was applying to medical schools, and I am humored to see that there is still a debate as to which is the best choice between these two fine institutions. I never felt inclined to speak on these issues at that time, because I did not feel qualified to do so given the fact that I had minimal experience to draw upon; i.e., interview days at a variety of schools across the country, all of which consisted of of the faculty and students putting on their best faces (just like the applicants).

However, after completing medical school at UTSW I believe I do have enough evidence to write confidently about UT Southwestern, and perhaps medical school in general. In reality, my motivation to finally write my first post was because I feel obligated to uproot texaslily's previous comment (no pun intended). That is, her implication that UTSW students are by and large focused on prestige and less so on their fellow classmates and/or a good time.

During my time at UTSW, I met numerous great friends and started dating my long-term girlfriend; furthermore, there were truly diverse personalities and therefore opportunities to gravitate to a group of people you feel are similar to yourself. Not to mention, this diversity affording new avenues of personal growth and exploration. To be fair, I certainly believe that Baylor offers a comparable diversity. Perhaps the only significant distinction in this regard is that UTSW is a larger class which creates more chances for great friendships and fun times. Such a distinction is speculative and is unimportant to the point I am trying to make. Once more, my point is that I had great times with the people at Southwestern, and these friends were not rigid, pompous, or focused on "prestige." Whether it was going to parties, movies, riding bikes around the lake, or just hanging out, my time with them was all very enjoyable. I should add that I met some cool guys and gals in the classes below me during the IM sports.

At the risk of being redundant, UTSW is a fun and social environment when it comes to the medical students. Did I encounter a malignant attending on occasion? Sure, but I think that speaks to the system more so than my classmates, and these kinds of people exist everywhere. On that note, I noticed the system itself was evolving in a more productive and benign direction during my time there. The administration was quite responsive to complaints, and treated the comments as constructive criticism. I only expect further progression in the future.


All of the above said, it is important to keep in mind that medical school is not easy. As far as I am concerned, a great work ethic and memory are more valuable than "intelligence." Therefore, expect to work hard even if college was relatively easy. Don't get me wrong, passing and getting average grades is generally not too difficult, but if you do want to excel it takes some solid determination. I mention these things because if you do not have appropriate expectations, then the inherent stresses of medical school are amplified unnecessarily. If I remember correctly, Baylor had a suicide within the last year or two, and one of my friends at UTSW took a year off because of the stress. Obviously a suicide is a much more heartbreaking event, but I am trying to communicate that BOTH schools are by no means a walk in the park. Needless to say, I am sure there are multiple aspects of life that ended up overwhelming these individuals, but the point remains that is important to stay grounded with your expectations for these four years of medical school.

I apologize if I am becoming a downer, but I notice these forums often seem to be current students or applicants cheering for a school as if it were UT vs Texas A&M in football. I have done my best to be honest and unbiased by stating that 1) UT Southwestern is NOT made up of students that only focus on prestige and 2) Medical school is hard, and although getting into a (high-caliber) medical school is difficult, it's usually more work to excel and learn all of the volumes of material at hand during medical school itself.

In closing, I wish everyone the best, and rest assured that either school/institution is great. To add further to the positive news, you all should know that I met a lot of people from other Texas medical schools (outside of UTSW or BCOM) that were still receiving interview invitations at competitive residencies. Put another way, just getting into medical school is an achievement in and of itself, at which point you should focus on becoming a great physician while also maintaining a balanced life.
 
I am positive that is not true and anyway, it was removed from wiki, so its probably wrong.

What I DO know, however, is that BCM had the second highest average STEP1 score in the country and that (at least last year) the student with the lowest score in the entire class scored the national mean...so I really doubt they have anything but an exceptional match list..

In case you were interested, I ended up seeing the same info I had read on wiki, but on another page. Still not sure if it's true since I didn't go to the USNews source but here was what I had seen on wiki (or something very similar):

"... at 3.8/5, Baylor is among the lowest ranked in Residency Director Ratings among the top 25 medical schools as measured by US News. Nine Students went unmatched in 2009 in the National Resident Matching Program."

Doesn't seem like anything new or useful (doubt that these residency director ratings mean much when choosing a med school-at least not to me) but there it is for those of you who were curious about my original post. I think wiki used the 9 unmatched students and stated that this was more than all other top 20 schools.
 
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Hello everyone,

I am a recent UTSW graduate who is now in Chicago for my residency. I used to visit this website while I was applying to medical schools, and I am humored to see that there is still a debate as to which is the best choice between these two fine institutions. I never felt inclined to speak on these issues at that time, because I did not feel qualified to do so given the fact that I had minimal experience to draw upon; i.e., interview days at a variety of schools across the country, all of which consisted of of the faculty and students putting on their best faces (just like the applicants).

However, after completing medical school at UTSW I believe I do have enough evidence to write confidently about UT Southwestern, and perhaps medical school in general. In reality, my motivation to finally write my first post was because I feel obligated to uproot texaslily's previous comment (no pun intended). That is, her implication that UTSW students are by and large focused on prestige and less so on their fellow classmates and/or a good time.

During my time at UTSW, I met numerous great friends and started dating my long-term girlfriend; furthermore, there were truly diverse personalities and therefore opportunities to gravitate to a group of people you feel are similar to yourself. Not to mention, this diversity affording new avenues of personal growth and exploration. To be fair, I certainly believe that Baylor offers a comparable diversity. Perhaps the only significant distinction in this regard is that UTSW is a larger class which creates more chances for great friendships and fun times. Such a distinction is speculative and is unimportant to the point I am trying to make. Once more, my point is that I had great times with the people at Southwestern, and these friends were not rigid, pompous, or focused on "prestige." Whether it was going to parties, movies, riding bikes around the lake, or just hanging out, my time with them was all very enjoyable. I should add that I met some cool guys and gals in the classes below me during the IM sports.

At the risk of being redundant, UTSW is a fun and social environment when it comes to the medical students. Did I encounter a malignant attending on occasion? Sure, but I think that speaks to the system more so than my classmates, and these kinds of people exist everywhere. On that note, I noticed the system itself was evolving in a more productive and benign direction during my time there. The administration was quite responsive to complaints, and treated the comments as constructive criticism. I only expect further progression in the future.


All of the above said, it is important to keep in mind that medical school is not easy. As far as I am concerned, a great work ethic and memory are more valuable than "intelligence." Therefore, expect to work hard even if college was relatively easy. Don't get me wrong, passing and getting average grades is generally not too difficult, but if you do want to excel it takes some solid determination. I mention these things because if you do not have appropriate expectations, then the inherent stresses of medical school are amplified unnecessarily. If I remember correctly, Baylor had a suicide within the last year or two, and one of my friends at UTSW took a year off because of the stress. Obviously a suicide is a much more heartbreaking event, but I am trying to communicate that BOTH schools are by no means a walk in the park. Needless to say, I am sure there are multiple aspects of life that ended up overwhelming these individuals, but the point remains that is important to stay grounded with your expectations for these four years of medical school.

I apologize if I am becoming a downer, but I notice these forums often seem to be current students or applicants cheering for a school as if it were UT vs Texas A&M in football. I have done my best to be honest and unbiased by stating that 1) UT Southwestern is NOT made up of students that only focus on prestige and 2) Medical school is hard, and although getting into a (high-caliber) medical school is difficult, it's usually more work to excel and learn all of the volumes of material at hand during medical school itself.

In closing, I wish everyone the best, and rest assured that either school/institution is great. To add further to the positive news, you all should know that I met a lot of people from other Texas medical schools (outside of UTSW or BCOM) that were still receiving interview invitations at competitive residencies. Put another way, just getting into medical school is an achievement in and of itself, at which point you should focus on becoming a great physician while also maintaining a balanced life.

All very true; certainly, both schools are excellent. 👍 Honestly, I think anyone who tries to pick apart the fact that Baylor is, what, 3 spots higher in the US News Rankings, while UTSW is .2 points higher in the residency directors' rankings... honestly, I think that's a waste of time 🙄 Clearly, on paper, both school are excellent and having a degree from either institution will put you in the driver's seat to get an excellent residency.

In case you were interested, I ended up seeing the same info I had read on wiki, but on another page. Still not sure if it's true since I didn't go to the USNews source but here was what I had seen on wiki (or something very similar):

"... at 3.8/5, Baylor is among the lowest ranked in Residency Director Ratings among the top 25 medical schools as measured by US News. Nine Students went unmatched in 2009 in the National Resident Matching Program."

Doesn't seem like anything new or useful (doubt that these residency director ratings mean much when choosing a med school-at least not to me) but there it is for those of you who were curious about my original post. I think wiki used the 9 unmatched students and stated that this was more than all other top 20 schools.

I also want to say that I believe Baylor's class size is larger than most of the other top 20 med schools... but I'm not positive. But really, if Baylor had 9 people not match, that's not statistically different from 7 people going unmatched at a different school, that's just luck and random variance. Furthermore, again, I don't put much stock in what the US News rankings say, as I'm just not convinced there's a huge difference between Baylor getting a 3.9 and another school getting a 4.X. If you want to look at another metric, I've heard from a few different sources that Baylor had the second highest step score in the country last year, which I think is more important than "residency director's rank" :shrug:

Does that make Baylor the "second best school in the country?" No. It just means that Baylor is a very good school that will grant you an excellent education. You can say the same about UT Southwestern. So by all means, come to your own conclusion of whether 1.5 preclinical curriculum vs. traditional, Parkland vs. TMC, Dallas vs. Houston is best for YOU personally, but I don't think there's any real interesting data to be had regarding the relative "prestige" of either institution.
 
I just want to note that, in addition to all the other pro BCM reasons people have posted, I am choosing Baylor because in my two visits to UTSW, when I asked students "Why did you go here?" pretty much every single one said "For the name." When I asked BCM students the same question, pretty much every one said "For the people."

Even though I knew these responses are not 100% true of everyone at these schools, the difference was striking to me. It's just the kind of person I am that I felt that I would be a better fit at BCM. Not saying that choosing based on the prestige of a school is bad, it's just not my style.

I would like to present an alternative interpretation of the "for the name" response. When I interviewed at UTSW, I also received that answer and reacted similarly at first.

What I understand now is that the decision-making process is very difficult when you have two excellent options at your disposal. When you are stuck between schools like Baylor and UTSW, which have equally excellent curriculum, facilities, faculty, teaching hospitals, etc., you are probably going to make your decision based on minor considerations.

I have friends who picked one school over the other simply because they wanted to live closer to their family. For others, they care more about the social situation, in other words their future classmates. For some, maybe it's easier to pick between two schools because they know that one is more prestigious (and from what I find, that reputation is generally well-earned). It's a different process for each applicant, and I feel that if a person chooses a school because of prestige, that's his/her prerogative. You shouldn't pass judgment over him/her for it.

Texaslily, if you wanted to pick an institution purely "for the people," I think you would have chosen UT-Houston over UTSW. You can't deny that Baylor carries a reputation with its own name, so it seems you also took prestige into consideration when making your own decision.
 
I'm an MSII at UTSW, so I'm obviously a bit biased here but I feel like I need to address the "the people" argument. I chose UTSW over Baylor after doing extensive research on both schools and the bottom line is this:

Both schools are great and have distinct pros and cons, but "the people" at both schools are pros for both instutitions.

This can, more or less, be said at almost all instutitions. You can't simply say that you will like a school because of the people without actually attending the school and getting to know those people. Once you do, chances are that out of the entire class you will find many close friends and future colleagues regardless of which institution you attend.
 
Use your gut...? :idea:

No really, thank your lucky stars if you get to make this decision because you've just gotten into the two schools with the best bang for your buck in the nation.
 
Texaslily, if you wanted to pick an institution purely "for the people," I think you would have chosen UT-Houston over UTSW. You can't deny that Baylor carries a reputation with its own name, so it seems you also took prestige into consideration when making your own decision.

I actually liked the people at BCM better 😛 No offense to UT-H people, they were cool too.

Like I said, I wasn't judging anyone for making a choice based on name.. I just thought others might want to know the answers I received.
 
I need to stay in the Houston Texas Medical Center. I pretty much had decided to go to Baylor even after having read the March 2009 article on its financial problems in the Houston Chronicle. From a knowledgeable trusted source last week I heard that BCM is still in denial that it is going to have to declare bankrupcy. It is naturally that if there is no money...services to students and losing great professors might be a possibility within the next four years which will impact our education there. UT-Houston is rich and will only continue to grow stronger. Can anyone please help me evaluate UT-Houston vs Baylor in the light of any recent developments any knows on BCM financial problems?

Thank you.
Class of 2014
 
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With the new rankings coming out soon (this Thursday), any predictions on how Baylor and UTSW will fare this time around?
 
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