CHOOSE YOUR OWWN IV - Game Thread

[WildZoo]

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Plus I'm hoping If he does actually have a kill ability, everyone ignores it and It's not interfered with and I will in fact die

 

[WildZoo]

This is a noise post

Remember how I said if I had the option to be a PGO I would take it because hehe funny even though there's a high risk of taking out a villager?

Well, here's CYO II

Table of Contents
Day 1 - Final Tally; Stagg was Condemner Supersaint
Night 1 - Cray was Town Parrot Role; Wonder was Town Jack-of-all-Trades
Day 2 - Final Tally; Zenge was Town Mason
Night 2 - Dina was Vanilla Townie
Day 3 - Final Tally; Chaos was Town Bodyguard
Night 3 - dubz was Town 1x Paranoid Gun Owner
Day 4 Modkill - sunshine was Town Bulletproof Lover
Draw - No one wins

And I am 90% sure I did in fact take out a villager before I died lol

At least I'm consistent

 

[apoptosis09]

This is a noise post

Remember how I said if I had the option to be a PGO I would take it because hehe funny even though there's a high risk of taking out a villager?

Well, here's CYO II

And I am 90% sure I did in fact take out a villager before I died lol

At least I'm consistent

Oh boy that game sent me in a rabbit hole 😂

 

[beans2020]

What do you mean with this part?

I think this will become more applicable once night closes and we see who was NK'd, but I like to look at who is left and ask myself why each person is still there. (someone told me to do that in goats I think? I know shorty does this). So if we apply that here:

rae - scum equity (people have been consistently sussing her since N1 I believe?)
clem - it's clem. He always has scum equity. (sorry clem ily)
SAR - people have been lightly sus of her. Hasn't proven herself fully village.
kitz - sliding towards the bottom of people's POE and there is benefit to scum to drag newer players to endgame for easier misyeets. (zenge told me that).
dubz - widely village read so either scum hasn't been able to kill her yet or she's scum or the scum want us to misyeet her for being too village and too alive
beans - very similar to rae
alissa - townread but still alive. Not as widely townread as dubz/zenge but moreso than rae/me/kitz. If she's still alive after this night cycle, we have to ask "why is alissa still alive if pretty much everyone is townreading her?" You see what I'm saying? (and yes this can apply to dubz/zenge too if they are still alive after night cycle).
apop - similar to rae and me
zenge - similar to dubz, alissa

Like I said earlier, once NK has/have happened that will help clarify this.

 

[apoptosis09]

I think this will become more applicable once night closes and we see who was NK'd, but I like to look at who is left and ask myself why each person is still there. (someone told me to do that in goats I think? I know shorty does this). So if we apply that here:

rae - scum equity (people have been consistently sussing her since N1 I believe?)
clem - it's clem. He always has scum equity. (sorry clem ily)
SAR - people have been lightly sus of her. Hasn't proven herself fully village.
kitz - sliding towards the bottom of people's POE and there is benefit to scum to drag newer players to endgame for easier misyeets. (zenge told me that).
dubz - widely village read so either scum hasn't been able to kill her yet or she's scum or the scum want us to misyeet her for being too village and too alive
beans - very similar to rae
alissa - townread but still alive. Not as widely townread as dubz/zenge but moreso than rae/me/kitz. If she's still alive after this night cycle, we have to ask "why is alissa still alive if pretty much everyone is townreading her?" You see what I'm saying? (and yes this can apply to dubz/zenge too if they are still alive after night cycle).
apop - similar to rae and me
zenge - similar to dubz, alissa

Like I said earlier, once NK has/have happened that will help clarify this.

I get what you're saying now.
You were sus of SAR earlier and then lightened a little when dubz village read her; how do you feel now?
I've been leaning away from her based mostly on yesterday's interactions (and also admittedly Dubz' clear)

 

[alissa14]

I think this will become more applicable once night closes and we see who was NK'd, but I like to look at who is left and ask myself why each person is still there. (someone told me to do that in goats I think? I know shorty does this). So if we apply that here:

rae - scum equity (people have been consistently sussing her since N1 I believe?)
clem - it's clem. He always has scum equity. (sorry clem ily)
SAR - people have been lightly sus of her. Hasn't proven herself fully village.
kitz - sliding towards the bottom of people's POE and there is benefit to scum to drag newer players to endgame for easier misyeets. (zenge told me that).
dubz - widely village read so either scum hasn't been able to kill her yet or she's scum or the scum want us to misyeet her for being too village and too alive
beans - very similar to rae
alissa - townread but still alive. Not as widely townread as dubz/zenge but moreso than rae/me/kitz. If she's still alive after this night cycle, we have to ask "why is alissa still alive if pretty much everyone is townreading her?" You see what I'm saying? (and yes this can apply to dubz/zenge too if they are still alive after night cycle).
apop - similar to rae and me
zenge - similar to dubz, alissa

Like I said earlier, once NK has/have happened that will help clarify this.

Maybe I’m alive because I deserve to be alive smh

 

[apoptosis09]

Maybe I’m alive because I deserve to be alive smh

Howdy Alissa - do you feel that you're being widely village read per beans' post?

 

[beans2020]

I get what you're saying now.
You were sus of SAR earlier and then lightened a little when dubz village read her; how do you feel now?
I've been leaning away from her based mostly on yesterday's interactions (and also admittedly Dubz' clear)

IDK. I believe that dubz is likely village so I do trust her read of SAR. I also think this iteration of SAR is more similar to village!SAR in supernatural than wolf!SAR in halloween. I am trying to stay cautious though bc I feel that we are being misled somewhere and I don't want to assume anything.

 

[WildZoo]

I think this will become more applicable once night closes and we see who was NK'd, but I like to look at who is left and ask myself why each person is still there. (someone told me to do that in goats I think? I know shorty does this). So if we apply that here:

rae - scum equity (people have been consistently sussing her since N1 I believe?)
clem - it's clem. He always has scum equity. (sorry clem ily)
SAR - people have been lightly sus of her. Hasn't proven herself fully village.
kitz - sliding towards the bottom of people's POE and there is benefit to scum to drag newer players to endgame for easier misyeets. (zenge told me that).
dubz - widely village read so either scum hasn't been able to kill her yet or she's scum or the scum want us to misyeet her for being too village and too alive
beans - very similar to rae
alissa - townread but still alive. Not as widely townread as dubz/zenge but moreso than rae/me/kitz. If she's still alive after this night cycle, we have to ask "why is alissa still alive if pretty much everyone is townreading her?" You see what I'm saying? (and yes this can apply to dubz/zenge too if they are still alive after night cycle).
apop - similar to rae and me
zenge - similar to dubz, alissa

Like I said earlier, once NK has/have happened that will help clarify this.

I like this. I will say there have only been two nights and other than the scum crossfire it's been the MOST consensus village players who have died, so I'm not too worried about things yet. It will be interesting to see who dies tonight

Another note on me that kind of depends on who the scum are - often the reason I'm left alive even when I'm widely village read is because my reads are wrong 🙂 this could apply to anyone else too

 

[Clem J]

Either there is scum between beans and rae or like

Someone is lone scumming really well and idk if I have the brain power to find that

Didn't you literally just say rae is town

 

[WildZoo]

This feeling is bursting out of me. I can feel it oozing through my pores like movie theater popcorn butter.

Horrendous that this couldn't have stayed in the posts I never read

 

[WildZoo]

Didn't you literally just say rae is town

No? When have I ever said rae is town

 

[WildZoo]

I said rae is not a werewolf

-insert multiball gif here-

 

[Clem J]

Well darn I was gonna put you as a legacy but now idk if this is reverse psychology

It's ok you still can

 

[Clem J]

I said rae is not a werewolf

-insert multiball gif here-

Ugh

 

[Clem J]

Bets on whether he got to the end of this post and then added that parenthetical statement because he realized how it sounded

Sorry this is a noise post

Adding the "like this one" qualifier is >rand mafia

 

[Clem J]

Hey just checking are we collectively ignoring the claim of nk ability here?

Unless you're on the opposing scum team, yeah

 

[Clem J]

clem - it's clem. He always has scum equity. (sorry clem ily)

You don't have to be sorry when it's on purpose lol

 

[WildZoo]

beans is one of the players who I feel like I really don't have a read on, and last night, a few of her comments didn't sit right with me, so despite saying that I wasn't going to do any ISOs this game (which I already have gone against by planning to ISO PSV later)... I did one lol.

tl;dr: I don't feel that there are any unpairing interactions here. If anything, I see beans make an offhand comment that Spurs was appealing because she believes he would choose scum, but that's hardly an unpairing interaction in my world, especially when she goes on to village lean him after that. She starts expressing more doubt of him later on, but it's after other people had expressed discomfort there, like me, Dubz, and others. I'm not going to say that can only be paired and sensing a change in the tide, because that would be silly - she is a newer player and it's possible that she started to get swayed by the opinions of others and came around to a more correct vibe on him. However, that's not the vibe that I have in the context of her being quick to reply to fruit and say that there are multiple clearly unpairing interactions. Additionally, I don't feel that her progressions on other players (namely samac and Zenge) are very natural, and I'm not keen on some of the things surrounding her CG vote.

Spoiler: This is the non-tl;dr

I don't think this post is AI. However, it's important for later, so I pulled it.


I know that fruit felt that a series of posts starting with this one was backtracking in a sus way, and I'm not sure that I agree - I think that walking her initial sus of kitz and rae back feels okayish in the context of the rest of the thread.


I'm not sure that mentioning Spurs here feels organic, but this post mentions almost everyone that she had on her initial "willing to vote within this group" post (excluding fruit), so if I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, she was working through that. If I'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt, it feels awkward and clunky to throw him in the way she did.


This feels pretty organic to me, I think.



I pulled this comment because I wanted to get on a soapbox, but it's not actually relevant to the rest of the ISO lmao

Spoiler: Unhelpful soapboxing

I'm not going to wolf read this comment necessarily, because it's phrased differently than what I'm about to soapbox about, but since it is a feeling that I hold strongly, I'm just going to put it out there for the record that I always think that dismissing D1 as random/a crapshoot/unlikely to get a wolf is wolfy. D1 has the purest interactions you're going to get, simply due to gamestate, and I think it's one of the most important days to look at retrospectively.

So ... there is NOTHING in this ISO prior to this post that actually says anything about why beans thought this. Unfortunately, I'd already fallen off being able to keep up with the vote tally in my spreadsheet - what I want to do is look at this and see how many people were already voting CG and if this feels bandwagony. In fact, throughout this entire ISO, other than the first comment about "would choose scum," there's very minimal content on CG to give any insight into the read there - and then she goes on later to say that she feels she's an easy misyeet, but... there's really no analysis at all.


I don't really like this hedginess and leaving the door open to backtrack these reads later if necessary.






Again, there is NOTHING to justify this statement. If this were a normal setup, I would say that this had me worried about TMI - however, that doesn't really apply the same way in this game because the scum also don't know someone is village, they just know someone isn't the same faction. I'm more bothered by the total lack of attention to CG in the rest of her ISO than I am by this comment made in this specific game. I'm particularly bothered by it because she stayed there, leading the wagon (disclaimer: because I don't have my spreadsheet up to date, I am not sure she actually was the one to start the wagon, though I know she wasn't the first person who ever voted CG yesterday because fruit did that before I fell off with tallying).


The timing of this is squidgy. I want to say that I can see it being town realizing that they're wrong - however, I don't think that Good Place is a good example because in early game, Spurs was an inclusive 3p, and that's not going to play the same way. Now, that being said, I do recognize that the time Spurs wolfed, beans was also a wolf, and I think it's harder to look back at a game where you were wolfing WITH someone and apply a town perspective of their play to then be able to read and recognize scummy posts of theirs later.

Wow I hate how I phrased that, but I'm going to leave it, because if I'm doing ISOs this game, the people who haven't played with me before get to experience the full level of unhinge that they can be, which includes me writing my thoughts out and then being like wtf does that even say.

Attempted rephrase: because beans was wolfing with Spurs in the noob game, it may be more difficult for her to necessarily see scummy posts from him in this game and directly apply reasoning of "oh this was similar to what he did in the noob game, where he was scum" because she wasn't trying to solve him in the noob game. She knew what he was.

Anyway, that's the more charitable take on this comment, and I typed that all out but don't really believe in it much myself. I don't like how the comment feels.


I don't know why this feels a little off to me, I might be confbiasing myself at this point, but the "there's still time for it to take off" reads with a weird connotation to me.




I personally hate statements like this because they feel a little "omg look at how towny I am".


Okay, so a couple things here. The samac read doesn't really track with the comments that she was making about how she wasn't sure if samac could be in her wolf range - that whole mason debacle had already happened by the time she was saying stuff like that. Similarly, moving Zenge up to a townlean doesn't fit with what she was saying before about him, for similar reasons. I have no real issues with her neutrals category, other than I think the 3p comment about me specifically was a touch odd because when she was expressing reservations about other vets, it was just about scum, whereas with me, it was ONLY 3p. I don't know how closely she was following the thread, because it did come up that I like being 3p, but it wasn't heavily discussed, and so to me, it feels like that line is planted by someone else telling her that I like 3p. However, since my current inclination is to pair her with Spurs, that doesn't really track because he wouldn't know that either, neither of them have ever played with me, and in fact, much of this roster didn't play my one really notable 3p game (though I was also 3p of a different flavor in 10th Anni, Numbers, and Make Your Own, and 2 of those were by request lol). Also interesting is that fruit has plummeted in her reads when the last thing that she said about him was that he was village, and the justification for dropping him all the way to her POE was that he was defensive (personally, I thought fruit's posts read as frustrated town, especially when there have been multiple games now where he's stated he's trying to change up his play). And finally, the Spurs read just feels like she's going with the wind there. I don't feel there's a natural progression of that read.


I pulled this because it mentioned Spurs, but I don't really have any commentary to add. I just hate quotes with nothing after them, so here we are.


I don't think Spurs was under "a lot" of heat. I think multiple players had expressed discomfort with him, but that's not the same in my world as people contingency voting, for example. That being said, I did notice something Spurs was doing in this game that was also a way that I used to get to a scum read on Truenamer (who I have a godread on), and it WAS related to this. So I'm not saying it's a bad observation - I just don't know that I believe it's coming from a towny mindset.


I'm probably reading into this too much, because my instinct is to say that this is a little over the top, but that's me being uncharitable and I used to confbias myself by not being cognizant of things like that. So while I don't like it, I'm not going to factor it into my read ... much.


Yeah, I don't think that interaction is at all unpairing. I don't think anything in this ISO was unpairing. I actually think the opposite.

Bringing back shorty's beans ISO that I never read

 

[WildZoo]

I READ IT NOW

 

[WildZoo]

It took me a whole 8 minutes!

 

[WildZoo]

Unfortunately I have also lost my spot in my dead-villagers-ignored reread

 

[WildZoo]

Oh yeah this is why I didn't think beans was a werewolf

Though to be fair that interactions post came well after Zenge had started his PSV crusade. So I give it less credit than I would if it had come earlier.

Spoiler

rae/spurs - UNLIKELY due to rae's heavy push on spurs. I doubt there would be bussing to this nature on N1 of the game.
clem/spurs - POSSIBLE. There is nothing unpairing between the two of them. Spurs discusses not wanting to vote Clem bc of pushing him hard last game and then proceeds to village read him. Clem doesn't say anything specific about Spurs.
SAR/spurs - POSSIBLE. I don't think either of them said anything about the other except for Spurs saying he didn't have a read on SAR.
kitz/spurs - UNLIKELY. Spurs started scumreading kitz after the derp!clear when most everyone else was village reading her. I don't know why spurs would throw his nooblet (comparatively) packmate under the bus like that AND draw that much attention to her.
dubz/spurs - POSSIBLE? There isn't anything massively unclearing between the two of them. Dubz starts as soft village reading spurs and he ends up in the POE later which does feel like a natural progression. Spurs doesn't offer much of an opinion on Dubz. The answer here is IDK.
samac/spurs - UNLIKELY due to both mutually sussing one another starting early in the game.
alissa/spurs - POSSIBLE. There are barely any interactions between alissa and spurs besides mutually village reading each other.
apop/spurs - POSSIBLE. There isn't much unpairing between the two of them. Spurs village reads apop and apop says she thinks spurs is neutral, maybe scum but unclear. That's it.
zenge/spurs - UNLIKELY due to spurs pushing for a zenge yeet D1.
barks/spurs - UNLIKELY due to barks voting spurs D1 pretty early on. I don't think there would be a bussing attempt like this.
psv/spurs - POSSIBLE. Very few interactions - spurs village reads PSV and PSV doesn't have much to say about spurs except for gentle questioning why people are scumreading him.
shorty/spurs - UNLIKELY. Shorty is sus of spurs right off the bat. Also, if we believe shorty's claim about JOAT and being vanillaized I'm not sure this is even worth pursuing.
fruit/spurs - UNLIKELY. Spurs becomes sus of fruit very quickly and fruit reciprocates that. I don't think they would have interacted in that way as partners.

This one

I just don't think it's clearing and I also have bones to pick with some of it, but that might be a me problem

Do you agree that it's unlikely that a wolf!beans would make that post though, given that PSV and Spurs were both wolves?

I think she still has scum equity, but I'm having a hard time making it make sense if she's wolf specifically.

Oh yeah no I don't think she's a werewolf

 

[WildZoo]

This still bothers me as does the later "statistical" conversation we had about me/shorty/samac/Zenge. Feels like resistance to blocc building without actual reason.

Spoiler: rae statistically speaks

Now, this is my next thought that I have not looked into at all.

By the end of yesterday, I was feeling village leans on samac, shorty, and dubz. Statistically speaking, I do not think they're all village. My question for myself and others is I feel like for the most part (this is coming from my memory and brain noggin, not actually looking all the way back through thread), these three are all being village read to an extent. I would be interested to hear from people who currently have thoughts on any of them.

What statistics speak this?

The number of people we have in the game, the potential number of multi-ball factions, and the chances someone randed multiple scum roles.

I still don't understand why statistically speaking three people can't all be village

Three people can all be village. However, my POE when I posted reads yesterday was spurs, fruits, you, and zenge, but decided I was village leaning you once we talked about how I've really only ever seen your scummy range.

Fruit flipped village.

I'm having second thoughts on zenge.

So I'm re-evaluating my POE, because it broke up a bit.

 

[apoptosis09]

This still bothers me as does the later "statistical" conversation we had about me/shorty/samac/Zenge. Feels like resistance to blocc building without actual reason.

Numbers is villains!

 

[WildZoo]

Where's your Dubz read @Zenge142

Wouldn't you like to know?

Yeah that's why I asked

Hey @Zenge142 last chance before you die probably

(Or before I die, less probably but more hopefully)

 

[WildZoo]

@Zenge142 , may I ask some questions?



Couldn't that in theory be everyone?


It's only D2, are you saying she was town read enough to be an NK target?


A lot of people have said they actually thought this was pretty natural. Can you pinpoint what pinged you?


This isn't a question, but as someone who is also mid finals at UMN, I don't think this is as AI as it would normally be.


Can't this theoretically be said about everyone?

I don't know that I want to vote PSV today, but I'm desperately trying to find any village, so I want to understand your thoughts.

I'm still a bit confuddled by rae's hesitance on the PSV yeet if she's a member of some other scum faction. Just...for why would she be so concerned

 

[apoptosis09]

I'm still a bit confuddled by rae's hesitance on the PSV yeet if she's a member of some other scum faction. Just...for why would she be so concerned

This is what T̴͍͙͖̖̠̜̀̈͛͐̏̎͊͘h̸̢̻̗̱̣̓͊͐̂͝͝e̵̝̩͇̼̎̋̒̅͆͘̕ ̵͇̠̖̺̭̯͎̱̋̾̐͊̿Ṣ̶̏p̴͕͚̑̃r̷̭̻̝͇͊̽̿̽̽͜ͅę̴̡̫̰̖̩̼̤͒̌́͐̅̈́̕͘a̶̮͕̿̾̓͑͑d̸̢͛̒́̕s̴͕̆̉͗͗͘h̸͖͖̮̅̆̓͂̌͘ē̴̢͔̙̮̋͝ę̶̗͑̆͒͆̊̿̈́̎͜ť̶̡̞̣͈̪͝͝ whispers into the vast and dark void of my thoughts

 

[WildZoo]

This is what T̴͍͙͖̖̠̜̀̈͛͐̏̎͊͘h̸̢̻̗̱̣̓͊͐̂͝͝e̵̝̩͇̼̎̋̒̅͆͘̕ ̵͇̠̖̺̭̯͎̱̋̾̐͊̿Ṣ̶̏p̴͕͚̑̃r̷̭̻̝͇͊̽̿̽̽͜ͅę̴̡̫̰̖̩̼̤͒̌́͐̅̈́̕͘a̶̮͕̿̾̓͑͑d̸̢͛̒́̕s̴͕̆̉͗͗͘h̸͖͖̮̅̆̓͂̌͘ē̴̢͔̙̮̋͝ę̶̗͑̆͒͆̊̿̈́̎͜ť̶̡̞̣͈̪͝͝ whispers into the vast and dark void of my thoughts

Yeah. I can't make it make sense without getting into some real twisty thoughts.