Official 2012-2013 Help Me Rank Megathread

[gutonc]

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Any thoughts on the following rank list for someone interested in cardiology:

1. Yale
2. Stony Brook
3. Mayo Clinic MN
4. Mayo Clinic AZ
5. University of Arizona
6. Montefiore
7. OSU
8. Banner Good Sam
9.SUNY downstate

What the what?!

Yale
Mayo
OSU
Monte
SB
UAz
Miracle Whip
Downstate
Random community program in Northern Mexico

 

[gutonc]

middle/bottom list help. this is with my preference. cards/gi? maybe hemonc.

USC
UCDavis
CPMC
UCI
KaiserLA
Harbor
Cedars

Help with what exactly? If you really desperately want to be a cardiologist, move Cedars up. Otherwise...whatever.

 

[obiwan]

to be honest, i am really struggling with my decision right now. it is just 3 years, but getting a fellowship in Ca is easier when youre instate. and its not about location for me, it's my family. anyways, i apprecaite you ranking the rest for me, only think about UChi is heard is that they are having some problems securing down a chairman? and UMich gives me a stronger feel, if that makes sense. also resident assistants, i could get used to that.
and, i'm a girl.

Resident assistant does not equal the real world

 

[gutonc]

Seriously...y'all are killing me with the re-posts and the PMs and the whatever. I've got patients to see (17 today, 19 tomorrow) and a family that I like and want to spend at least 30 minutes with tonight.

So I'm not going to respond to any more of these lists unless you're a user that has been here for at least a year. If you've invested some time in SDN, I'm willing to invest a little bit (like 45 seconds) of time in you. Otherwise, I just can't do it. Sorry.

(ps...many will be quite pleased to hear this)

Hopefully some of our other users will step up...but I'm doubtful.

 

[gutonc]

Resident assistant does not equal the real world

Right, because there's no such thing as a physician's assistant out in the real world.

 

[TopMD]

s

 

[TopMD]

Seriously...y'all are killing me with the re-posts and the PMs and the whatever. I've got patients to see (17 today, 19 tomorrow) and a family that I like and want to spend at least 30 minutes with tonight.

So I'm not going to respond to any more of these lists unless you're a user that has been here for at least a year. If you've invested some time in SDN, I'm willing to invest a little bit (like 45 seconds) of time in you. Otherwise, I just can't do it. Sorry.

(ps...many will be quite pleased to hear this)

Hopefully some of our other users will step up...but I'm doubtful.

I don't know if you were referring to me but I have been on sdn for over 5 yrs, just created this new account to preserve anonymity. Anyways, I understand that many of you are busy with other obligations but if you do have a few min to spare, I would greatly appreciate your advice

 

[TopMD]

Hey guys, sorry about reposting but I would really appreciate your input on my rank list.

Thinking about Allergy/Immunology and want to be able to maintain a social life/have good life work balance. Thanks

1. Hofstra North Shore-LIJ
2. Brown university
3. UMDNJ- Newark
4. UMDNJ-RWJ
5. Temple
6. Ohio state
7. University of Cincinnati
8. Wake Forest
9. Winthrop
10. Dartmouth
11. Georgetown/Washington Hospital Center
12. John Hopkins- Sinai
13. WVU
14. University of Vermont
15. University of Pittsburgh- Shadyside

Why is Vermont so low...I'd argue it's better than a lot of the places listed higher on your list. Is it a location thing?

Yea, its mainly a location thing. Also, I want a diverse patient base in terms of both ethnicity and pathology. But my list is definitely subject to change. How would you order it?

 

[Noegrus]

Seriously...y'all are killing me with the re-posts and the PMs and the whatever. I've got patients to see (17 today, 19 tomorrow) and a family that I like and want to spend at least 30 minutes with tonight.

So I'm not going to respond to any more of these lists unless you're a user that has been here for at least a year. If you've invested some time in SDN, I'm willing to invest a little bit (like 45 seconds) of time in you. Otherwise, I just can't do it. Sorry.

(ps...many will be quite pleased to hear this)

Hopefully some of our other users will step up...but I'm doubtful.

You are a true pro at this. Start charging them $19.99 a pop for advising on their rank list. Can I have a $5/applicant cut for suggesting this?

 

[disorder]

Seriously...y'all are killing me with the re-posts and the PMs and the whatever. I've got patients to see (17 today, 19 tomorrow) and a family that I like and want to spend at least 30 minutes with tonight.

So I'm not going to respond to any more of these lists unless you're a user that has been here for at least a year. If you've invested some time in SDN, I'm willing to invest a little bit (like 45 seconds) of time in you. Otherwise, I just can't do it. Sorry.

(ps...many will be quite pleased to hear this)

Hopefully some of our other users will step up...but I'm doubtful.

where's JDH?

 

[Cardiologist2Be]

What the what?!

Yale
Mayo
OSU
Monte
SB
UAz
Miracle Whip
Downstate
Random community program in Northern Mexico

Certainly appreciate your thoughts gutonc! Thank you for taking the time. I wish I felt comfortable enough about programs to give advice and help some folks out here like you...

 

[gutonc]

I don't know if you were referring to me but I have been on sdn for over 5 yrs, just created this new account to preserve anonymity. Anyways, I understand that many of you are busy with other obligations but if you do have a few min to spare, I would greatly appreciate your advice

Not specifically. Just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Honestly, if you sack up and post under your real ID I'll happily answer it.

 

[SaipanRocks]

middle/bottom list help. this is with my preference. cards/gi? maybe hemonc.

USC
UCDavis
CPMC
UCI
KaiserLA
Harbor
Cedars

I interviewed at 3 of these places, and our order is basically identical. I am a little surprised about where you are putting KaiserLA. Admittedly I did not interview there, but I don't think it is as strong as Harbor or Cedars. Any particular reason for putting it higher (or the 2 lower)?

 

[ZenB]

How about U of Minnesota vs U of Colorado?
Colorado doesn't give information of the yearly fellowship match, except the info on the website for 2012, stating 25% going into fellowship, and most after a year of hospitalist going to fellowship (50-60 % in total). But have good institutions, esp in GI.
Minnesota used to be better, and did match some to Mayo in PulmCC (and cards in the past).
what to you guys think?
UC Denver vs UMinn?

I will tell you that I have received an email from the PD regarding Colorado fellowship match list for last 2 years. It is VERY impressive, especially in GI (matches at Mayo, Brigham, Stanford, Maryland/NIH, among others) but also in other fields like Cards, Heme/Onc, Pulm/Crit (lists include programs like UW, Stanford, Michigan, MD Anderson, National Jewish) along with a fair number who decided to stay at Colorado. Again, I don't know your specifics, but I was pleasantly surprised during the interview trail and felt Denver to be a surprisingly strong program.

 

[ZenB]

middle/bottom list help. this is with my preference. cards/gi? maybe hemonc.

USC
UCDavis
CPMC
UCI
KaiserLA
Harbor
Cedars

My only changes would be to move Cedars above Kaiser LA. Otherwise, this list looks really good.

 

[SillyGiraffe]

My only changes would be to move Cedars above Kaiser LA. Otherwise, this list looks really good.

From what I know about the region, I would definitely move Cedars above Kaiser LA. If you look at any of the fellowship programs in the region that you're considering, I doubt there are many residents from Kaiser LA.

 

[ZenB]

hey guys! i dont post on here as much but i'd really appreciate any help, i'm from the east coast trying to go west and my advisors arent as familiar with these programs...

my current top 4 rank:

UC davis
UC irvine
UTSW
OHSU

( bottom few not quite figured out uchicago, umich, ucolorado)

ANY feedback would be very appreciated. i really like UC irvine but i'm worried it may close the fellowship door?

thank you in advance

I interviewed at UC Davis and was extremely unimpressed. What did you like about the program? Anyways, my order would be...

UTSW
OHSU
UCI
UC Davis

I should mention that some of the "bottom few" that you have listed would arguably top this list... such as ALL of them. I would argue that Michigan, UChicago, and Colorado are at least comparable to UTSW and OHSU. Do you have any specific reason for wanting to go back to California??

 

[ZenB]

I'm interesting in pursuing a fellowship in Cards/GI. Location is important to me because I'm single and I'd prefer urban/semi-urban but program strength is a slightly more of a priority. Currently, I have (in order):

Wisconsin
Georgetown
Minnesota
Mayo Rochester
UIC
Tulane
Montefiore
USC

Thanks for your input!

Good list, but here is how I would personally rank them. Take it for what it's worth.

Wisconsin (clear winner here in terms of balance)
Mayo Rochester (great program, very strong Cards fellowship, Rochester though....)
Georgetown (DC is an awesome city)
Minnesota
USC (LA weather is unbeatable, really only good if you want in-house fellowships)
Tulane
UIC (seriously, Irvine...)
Montefiore

 

[icaruswalks]

Good list, but here is how I would personally rank them. Take it for what it's worth.

Wisconsin (clear winner here in terms of balance)
Mayo Rochester (great program, very strong Cards fellowship, Rochester though....)
Georgetown (DC is an awesome city)
Minnesota
USC (LA weather is unbeatable, really only good if you want in-house fellowships)
Tulane
UIC (seriously, Irvine...)
Montefiore

UIC != UCI...

I think UIC >> UCI.

My take on this list:

Mayo
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Montefiore
UIC
Tulane
Georgetown
USC

 

[Tom27]

Hey Everyone!
I interviewed at both Emory and Vanderbilt, but I'm kind of undecided which one to rank No.1!
I'm interested in a cards or renal fellowship afterwards...
What are your thoughts on:
How are the residents trained within the programs?
How about work hours and lifestyle?
What about fellowship matches?
Thanks for your feedback!🙂

 

[detroitdetroit]

Hey guys whats ur take on Cincy vs Indiana? I am interested in cards fellowship potentially in the future. Which one is the better program overall?

 

[LilBag]

Hey guys whats ur take on Cincy vs Indiana? I am interested in cards fellowship potentially in the future. Which one is the better program overall?

Interviewed at both. Indiana seems to have the better fellowship placement.

 

[darkelven29]

Hey Everyone!
I interviewed at both Emory and Vanderbilt, but I'm kind of undecided which one to rank No.1!
I'm interested in a cards or renal fellowship afterwards...
What are your thoughts on:
How are the residents trained within the programs?
How about work hours and lifestyle?
What about fellowship matches?
Thanks for your feedback!🙂

Interviewed at both. Totally different programs, and so I'm puzzled why you wouldn't have a preference for one or the other. They both told me flat out the answers to those questions and their fellowship match are available in the packet. Do your homework! Both programs you come out very well clinically trained but Vandy in my mind wins in terms of more research/mentorship and stronger program leadership. Rank them according to the style you think you will succeed in.

What I got from my interview day:
Emory: Grady has very high autonomy and strong ICU experiences, longer hours. County hospital population. Less autonomy Midtown/University. Research you have to seek out, as big names only work at University hospital. Excellent cards and critical care match. And they take their own.
Vandy: Tertiary referral, county type pts more at Meharry. Great ancillary staff/EMR. More research mentorship than Emory. VA hospital seemed stronger than Emory in terms of clinical experiences. Subspecialty-oriented services, easier to network. Excellent cards and heme/onc match, some are fast-track. More translational research than Emory. Great program directors and pro-resident chiefs.

 

[JohnSmiley]

Any thoughts on Duke vs Vandy vs U Chicago in terms of lifestyle and resident happiness?

 

[jones2109]

UTSW Austin (seton) or Methodist Dallas? Which gives one a better fellowship opportunity?

 

[swlabr1980]

UTSW Austin (seton) or Methodist Dallas? Which gives one a better fellowship opportunity?

Methodist, although the opportunities aren't optimal coming from either.

 

[jones2109]

Methodist, although the opportunities aren't optimal coming from either.

In your opinion, why Methodist over Austin? I thought Austin has university affiliation

 

[swlabr1980]

In your opinion, why Methodist over Austin? I thought Austin has university affiliation

It's a university affiliation in name only. UTSW-Austin is a great place to learn general IM, but it lacks the research and networking support from which you would benefit in pursuing a fellowship. This will all change if/when UT-Austin starts their own medical school and takes over the program in the distant future....but for now, Austin would not be the best choice for a fellowship-minded IM resident. Methodist may not be a whole lot better, but at least it has a GI fellowship and isn't your typical county hospital like Brackenridge.

Honestly, you should be looking at a university program somewhere, or at least a strong community program that has its own fellowships.

 

[SaipanRocks]

UIC != UCI...

program much? never seen a med student use that notation before

but, in the spirit of the discussion, I agree UIC > UCI

 

[vivella]

Hey everyone, I have a quick question about two programs: Wake vs MUSC. I am not sure if I want to do fellowships but I don't want to close any doors. Are these two programs on par with each other? Thanks!

 

[TopMD]

thinking about allergy/immunology, want good work/life balance, have been going back and forth with this list, please help

1. Hofstra north shore-lij
2. Brown university
3. Umdnj- newark
4. Umdnj-rwj
5. Temple
6. Ohio state
7. University of cincinnati
8. Wake forest
9. Winthrop
10. Dartmouth
11. Georgetown/washington hospital center
12. John hopkins- sinai
13. Wvu
14. University of vermont
15. University of pittsburgh- shadyside

bump

 

[Torsades42]

bump

I don't know much about most of your list but I'd bump WVU over the Sinai program in Baltimore. The only truly affiliated Hopkins program is the Bayview one. I know Sinai residents get to do a rotations at Hopkins (and U of MD as well I think) but if you're interested in a fellowship, WVU would probably be better choice. I know we're talking about the bottom part of your rank list but I don't really have any first hand experience with your other programs.

 

[splashhh]

I interviewed at 3 of these places, and our order is basically identical. I am a little surprised about where you are putting KaiserLA. Admittedly I did not interview there, but I don't think it is as strong as Harbor or Cedars. Any particular reason for putting it higher (or the 2 lower)?

I don't have a strong inclination for staying in academic medicine. Plus, Kaiser LA has in-house fellowships I would want. Additionally, if I wanted to sub-specialize into EP/interventional in cards, I could do so at the same place. All of this ties into getting pension at KPLA... and I would want to work for Kaiser in the long term. Honestly, hard to beat.

From what I know about the region, I would definitely move Cedars above Kaiser LA. If you look at any of the fellowship programs in the region that you're considering, I doubt there are many residents from Kaiser LA.

I definitely will consider placing Cedars above it. I just didn't get a good feeling for Cedars while I was there. The interview day just felt detached and slightly awkward. Nobody really sold the program while I was there... but I understand there are some big names in Cards and GI that I can work with.

My only changes would be to move Cedars above Kaiser LA. Otherwise, this list looks really good.

Thanks, as I said above I'll reconsider Cedars over Kaiser LA.

 

[tallash]

Good list, but here is how I would personally rank them. Take it for what it's worth.

Wisconsin (clear winner here in terms of balance)
Mayo Rochester (great program, very strong Cards fellowship, Rochester though....)
Georgetown (DC is an awesome city)
Minnesota
USC (LA weather is unbeatable, really only good if you want in-house fellowships)
Tulane
UIC (seriously, Irvine...)
Montefiore

The upper Midwest is your friend for this list.
Wisconsin
Mayo (the Cities aren't that far...)
Minny
Georgetown
USC
Tulane = UIC
Monte

 

[tallash]

Interviewed at both. Indiana seems to have the better fellowship placement.

Indiana over Cincy. Good in house cards fellowship in terms of clinical rigor.

 

[icaruswalks]

program much? never seen a med student use that notation before

but, in the spirit of the discussion, I agree UIC > UCI

As a matter of fact, yes. My former line of work before I saw the light and came to medicine. Haha.

 

[icaruswalks]

The upper Midwest is your friend for this list.
Wisconsin
Mayo (the Cities aren't that far...)
Minny
Georgetown
USC
Tulane = UIC
Monte

Really? I'd rank USC very low... Program still has a ways to go imho. Tulane, Monte, and UIC are all better than USC I think.

 

[MagicHat23]

Interested in global health, probably going into ID, but also interested in Pulm/CC. I'm trying to decide the middle of my list. Any thoughts appreciated:

2-4: Penn Global Health, Penn categorical, UW
5-6: Columbia, Duke
7. UNC
8. Michigan

 

[splashhh]

Really? I'd rank USC very low... Program still has a ways to go imho. Tulane, Monte, and UIC are all better than USC I think.

to some extent i agree, but why do you say that?
rep? faculty? matching?

i'd say USC has become more progressive in resident work/life balance and just how ward teams are run.

 

[ButIwantneuro]

.

 

[Babyelephants]

Hey everyone, long-time lurker, first-time poster. I've got 3 somewhat similar programs here, in terms of mid-tier programs in their respective cities, the opportunity to work with an underserved patient population, diverse pathologies, and lots of autonomy. Location aside, any differences in national reputation, clinical training, mentorship, research opps, fellowship match potential? I'd be most interested in heme/onc, pulm/cc, or GI if I were to specialize. They all seemed to have decent fellowship matches, all with more regional distributions. I'd really appreciate anyone's input, thanks!

Albert Einstein montefiore> USC > UIC

That's how I would rank them. But a reasonable argument could be made for USC/Monte/UIC as well.

Really? I'd rank USC very low... Program still has a ways to go imho. Tulane, Monte, and UIC are all better than USC I think.

to some extent i agree, but why do you say that?
rep? faculty? matching?

i'd say USC has become more progressive in resident work/life balance and just how ward teams are run.

I've received advice on here that says otherwise. To me, those 3 are all great programs that seem on a similar level. I think it depends what you're interested in though. For example, if you're interested in heme/onc, I've heard great things about USC and Monte, and their fellowship matches for heme/onc have been really strong as well.

 

[Blackcomb]

1. Jefferson
2-3. Monte vs. Drexel?
4. Beth Israel NY
5. BU
6. Hopkins - Sinai

Pretty much 2-4 I am having doubts. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Are you sure you want to do a prelim year at Jefferson? Just know that they are very front-loaded and you will be coming in at 5am everyday. Perfectly fine if you want a very rigorous year but you should know what you are signing up for...

 

[ButIwantneuro]

Are you sure you want to do a prelim year at Jefferson? Just know that they are very front-loaded and you will be coming in at 5am everyday. Perfectly fine if you want a very rigorous year but you should know what you are signing up for...

Mmmmm, thought they said 6am haha, damn it. The residents seemed happy there, don't mind the early rise as long as attendings aren't yelling at me for random things. How does Monty compare to Jefferson in terms of work hours/training?

Also don't know where to put Drexel. Thought its better than BI and BU.

 

[Blackcomb]

Mmmmm, thought they said 6am haha, damn it. The residents seemed happy there, don't mind the early rise as long as attendings aren't yelling at me for random things. How does Monty compare to Jefferson in terms of work hours/training?

Also don't know where to put Drexel. Thought its better than BI and BU.

I don't know much about the prelim spots at the other programs. Monte categoricals work hard though.

I interviewed at Jeff 4 years ago and absolutely hated it so take what I say with a grain of salt 🙂 I disliked the hierarchical culture and the private-run subspecialty services. I did meet a prelim on my interview day who did say she enjoyed her year despite working very hard and getting it at "4:45 early in the year, 5:15 later on as I got faster".

Can't beat the location in Center City though...

My 2 cents- Name doesn't matter too much if its just a prelim year. Best to find a place where you'll be happy (and hopefully learn some good medicine).

 

[ButIwantneuro]

Why did you hate Jeff?

Thoughts on the other programs?

PS: Not going on name at all

 

[into1]

to some extent i agree, but why do you say that?
rep? faculty? matching?

i'd say USC has become more progressive in resident work/life balance and just how ward teams are run.

I do think USC has come a long way over the past few years. When I had my IV there this yr, the residents were all rrally nice and happy. Their match list is not super impressive but I think improved over the past few years. I think hey have significant potential in the coming years as they implement more and more of their changes.

 

[ZenB]

Mmmmm, thought they said 6am haha, damn it. The residents seemed happy there, don't mind the early rise as long as attendings aren't yelling at me for random things. How does Monty compare to Jefferson in terms of work hours/training?

Also don't know where to put Drexel. Thought its better than BI and BU.

I felt the same way. It was one of the biggest surprises during the interview trail and I was pleasantly surprised at how happy all the residents were and the general clinical training. It is not going to top my rank list, but has definitely made an impression.

 

[ZenB]

I've received advice on here that says otherwise. To me, those 3 are all great programs that seem on a similar level. I think it depends what you're interested in though. For example, if you're interested in heme/onc, I've heard great things about USC and Monte, and their fellowship matches for heme/onc have been really strong as well.

If you are basing your information of USC from SDN, you are going to lag about 4-5 years behind what is really going on. I did a Sub-I at USC, and while there are problems LAC+USC, they are often not the problems that commonly listed on here (i.e. poor fellowship matches, tons of scut work, ridiculous working hours... etc... all of which are myths in my mind) Overall, the program has really made some progressive changes and the work-life balance is really quite good. There is a strong culture of academia and evidence-based medicine, although one of the problems is largely translating those findings in journal club, morning report, etc to a County environment where a lot of the newest, experimental treatment and therapies are unavailable. That being said, Keck - the private hospital, does offer you an opportunity to see all those things. Having done the interview trail, the LA County hospital just looks way nicer than your usual County/VA (i'm looking at your Grady, Parkland, Ben Taub...) Finally, the autonomy is unreal (which can be a double-edged sword) and the diversity of pathology is truly amazing (in one week I saw disseminated MAC colitis, scleroderma renal crisis, Felty syndrome, myxedema coma, and a patient with cocci meningitis). I'm not saying it is a perfect program, and I would be remiss to say that there aren't stronger ones out there, but the bashing it receives on SDN is simply not true with what is actually happening there.

 

[SGU1212]

US IMG. Not much talk about the following schools but any advice appreciated. Interested in primary care.

UF-Jacksonville, University of Hawaii, and Lutheran Medical Center in NY

 

[LilBag]

I do think USC has come a long way over the past few years. When I had my IV there this yr, the residents were all rrally nice and happy. Their match list is not super impressive but I think improved over the past few years. I think hey have significant potential in the coming years as they implement more and more of their changes.

Where are people getting the USC fellowship match list? When I interviewed there, I only got a conglomerate list for "fellowship training sites." It didn't mention the range of the years, nor did it disclose the number of residents accepted by each site. So that list is useless.