Fall Reading WWeek Short/Small Game - Interest/Signup thread

[Crayola227]

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Well my lessons to be learned is to always strongly oppose no lynches and factor in likelihood of wolves having death avoidance in games.

Also inactivity is terrible and fundamentally favors wolves.

True point on the inactivity part.

Wolves can have death avoidance, heck, so can villagers. Anything is possible.

 

[Crayola227]

The problem with SDN WW games is wolves are regularly having death avoidance abilities, which is something I strongly oppose. It was impossible for village to kill wolf Cray with death avoidance and village lost because they wasted lynches on Cray. The existence of death avoidance destroys all benefits of no lynch for village. Wolf death avoidance worsens the information asymmetry that is hurting the village.

As long as wolf death avoidance remains a strong possibility of being utilized, which it will, I will always oppose no lynches.

That was not death avoidance technically, that was having an alpha wolf.

Death avoidance doesn't negate using no lynch if the death avoidance is used up before it looks like no lynch is a good idea.

It doesn't matter, because the circumstances where it even appears that no lynch might be a good thing, isn't common.

I thought AM was wolfy, but I usually pull the trigger too slow on that.

To decide on a no lynch day, village just needs to be careful where the idea is coming from and how they're coming to that conclusion.

 

[Lawpy]

No offense meant Lawper, but sometimes I see you coming up with these absolute laws about people/the game, and the whole thing in WW is that few things are absolute.

No lynch sometimes actually is beneficial to village. But it doesn't help with the idea is coming from a wolf and village isn't sure based on numbers or such that it's a good idea.

I would use the mafia wiki to work out when that's the case.

As long as there is a possibility of wolves having death avoidance (which is real and something not known to village), i can’t support using a no lynch. This is not an absolute statement. It’s a defensive measure used in cases of uncertainty when it comes to WW. Wolves thrive with an information advantage.

 

[Lawpy]

That was not death avoidance technically, that was having an alpha wolf.

Death avoidance doesn't negate using no lynch if the death avoidance is used up before it looks like no lynch is a good idea.

It doesn't matter, because the circumstances where it even appears that no lynch might be a good thing, isn't common.

I thought AM was wolfy, but I usually pull the trigger too slow on that.

To decide on a no lynch day, village just needs to be careful where the idea is coming from and how they're coming to that conclusion.

Lynching and voting are a villager’s most powerful weapon especially if they are vanilla. I get that there are cases where no lynch can be viably used but there is a significant risk of dealing with a death avoidance wolf. Suggestions can come from anyone and at that time, AM presented it soundly which is why I went with it. Looking back that was a bad move but it also effectively serves a precedent to be used cleverly by wolves in future games should villagers believe it.

In future games, others can no lynch if they want. It’s their call. But when I’m playing as villager, i’m definitely not using no lynch going forward.

 

[WildZoo]

Late to the party but I felt like reading the games I missed and providing commentary 😏

It always warms my heart to see games where people resist lynching @Animal Midwife so much
You've come a long way, kid 😉

It was the only way I could think of to balance out a 10 player game with a pre done 9 player set up 🙁

A game this size, two wolves is perfect, and they don't need an extra boost. Adding a vanillager to that 9 player setup doesn't throw off the balance enough to require an extra wolf ability when the wolves are at 20% numbers-wise, especially since there is no mechanic in the game to counter the ability. I'm a little too brain dead to calculate out the number of mislynches wolves needed to win and how that was affected by the avoidance, but my impression is that it pushed the game into wolf-leaning territory. Just my thought on it 🙂

Edit: Numbers - Presumably 5 total lynches. Subtract 3 because they would have to lynch capri twice to win (from a numbers standpoint, a lynch avoidance for a wolf is extremely powerful the closer you get to endgame. It is essentially like having another wolf). So village only gets 2 mislynches, unless cray gets lucky with a block.

On the flipside, wolves only needed 3 mislynches to win. That's standard-ish for other sites, but around here because our meta is wolf-favoring, I balance at #wolves+2. The sweet spot would have been requiring at least 4 mislynches for the wolves to win. And then because of the no lynch, they only needed to push 2 mislynches. That's woah crazy for a 10 player game. Now, making sure AM got lynched before capri, that was good play on their part. Very snazzy. And they were lucky cray didn't block a kill, and that they hit the seer d1.

Okay, so I have to ask. What was the reasoning behind Capri and AM lynching together so much? That it was so obvious that it couldn't possibly be true? Here was my thought on Capri as the second wolf from dead chat:

Capri I still don't know. I haven't paid enough attention to her, but she's always a mystery to me. The weird thing is how consistently you (AM) and her voted together. That seems way too obvious for wolves to do to the point that it would be dumb as Cray pointed out above. But like my WIFOM explanation about your (AM) contingency vote on Dandy and then her death, it could be a good move because it reads as a bad move. Capri's argument could be "I'm not that dumb", when she has been planning to make that argument all along. Plus just the fact that if Paws had voted for Lawpy all you two had to do was sit on the vote and if Paws agreed it would have been game.

Were you two voting together so much because it was a small game? I'm just really, really confused

~ Any strategy can be a wolf strategy if you try hard and believe in yourself and are also a little bit reckless ~

 

[SARdoghandler]

A game this size, two wolves is perfect, and they don't need an extra boost. Adding a vanillager to that 9 player setup doesn't throw off the balance enough to require an extra wolf ability when the wolves are at 20% numbers-wise, especially since there is no mechanic in the game to counter the ability. I'm a little too brain dead to calculate out the number of mislynches wolves needed to win and how that was affected by the avoidance, but my impression is that it pushed the game into wolf-leaning territory. Just my thought on it 🙂

Edit: Numbers - Presumably 5 total lynches. Subtract 3 because they would have to lynch capri twice to win (from a numbers standpoint, a lynch avoidance for a wolf is extremely powerful the closer you get to endgame. It is essentially like having another wolf). So village only gets 2 mislynches, unless cray gets lucky with a block.

On the flipside, wolves only needed 3 mislynches to win. That's standard-ish for other sites, but around here because our meta is wolf-favoring, I balance at #wolves+2. The sweet spot would have been requiring at least 4 mislynches for the wolves to win. And then because of the no lynch, they only needed to push 2 mislynches. That's woah crazy for a 10 player game. Now, making sure AM got lynched before capri, that was good play on their part. Very snazzy. And they were lucky cray didn't block a kill, and that they hit the seer d1.

Yeah, in retrospect I realized it was a bit unbalanced but it seemed like a good idea at the time. At least I know for next time now 😳 Whoops. The wolves played a stellar game tho!

 

[WildZoo]

Yeah, in retrospect I realized it was a bit unbalanced but it seemed like a good idea at the time. At least I know for next time now 😳 Whoops. The wolves played a stellar game tho!

Every game is a learning experience but yes, they definitely killed it. Literally.