Jefferson Medical College or Temple University?

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iancurtis

iancurtis

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I know this has been discussed previously on SDN (and at length). However, I'd like to get some more recent (and relevant) input on what you guys consider the pros/cons of Jefferson and Temple.
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I would say Jefferson for the great center city location! However, Temple has beautiful new facilities. Jeff has true P/F grading--Temple has some weird grading that is like honors, high pass, pass, low pass etc. So basically it is graded at Temple. Either way can't go wrong..Philly is awesome! But Jeff definitely has better location!
 
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I think Doctor Strange goes to Jefferson. He should be here shortly lol.
 
You guys are boring. Safety is overrated.
 
darkjedi said:
oh did Jeff convert to pure P/F?
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No, we are still H/P/F.

Honestly, talking with my friends that go to Temple, you're going to get pretty much the same quality of education at both institutions. As others have mentioned, Jefferson is in a much safer part of the city. North Philadelphia can get pretty sketchy. On the flip side, rent is obviously higher near Jefferson. That being said, most Temple people I know usually end up living in Center City anyway, so that becomes kind of a non-issue. Tuition is higher at Jeff.

I was accepted at both Jefferson and Temple and chose Jefferson because of the hugely positive experience I had on my interview day. I'm very happy here and would recommend coming here.

Obviously I have a biased view, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
 
I'm not a PA resident, so Jeff would be marginally cheaper. Also, I agree that Jeff is in a better area.
 
CarlosDanger said:
How do you guys think Drexel compares to Temple and Jefferson?
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Drexel is about 15 minutes outside the city in East Falls, and is probably not considered in the same league as Temple or Jeff.

The difference between Temple and Jefferson is minimal and would mainly depend on which you felt was a better fit. If you are lucky enough to attend the interview days and second looks for both schools, hopefully that will give you a better indication of which school you would prefer.
 
I'm in temple undergrad so I've gone to a lot of those temple med school visit days. First thing to know is that temple medical school graduates have some of the highest debt compared to other med school graduates. Just google it, I don't know about Jefferson. Safety wise, no you will not get shot if you go to Temple. I've almost gotten robbed and it was on the other south side of Philadelphia, so I would say Philadelphia is more of a dangerous city, because it's urban so obviously your going to meet more crazy people. Other than that Temple medical school probably has an above average research department and serves a very multicultural area. Personally, however, I would just go with whichever medical school offers me a bigger financial aid, as there's not that much of a big difference between temple and Jefferson.
 
bambam92 said:
I would say Jefferson for the great center city location! However, Temple has beautiful new facilities. Jeff has true P/F grading--Temple has some weird grading that is like honors, high pass, pass, low pass etc. So basically it is graded at Temple. Either way can't go wrong..Philly is awesome! But Jeff definitely has better location!
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I just interviewed at both Temple and Jeff, both said they use H/P/F for the first two years.
 
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drivenworrywart said:
Temple is one of the schools where students graduate with the most debt. Then again, this is my source: http://www.usnews.com/education/bes.../22/10-med-schools-that-lead-to-the-most-debt.
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Average indebtedness is a tricky number (includes students who have family paying, people on scholarships like military and NHSC, etc which improves the numbers). I would certainly wait and see what kind of financial package each school offered but I can't imagine that the difference in cost is going to be that significant for the OP.
 
I know for Temple they incorporated alot of "extra" costs such as transportation and insurance which was around $13,000 different than what I would be expecting to pay.
 
darkjedi said:
Drexel is about 15 minutes outside the city in East Falls, and is probably not considered in the same league as Temple or Jeff.
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You spend the first 2 years at Drexel's suburban Philly campus, your rotation years (3 and 4) are spent on their center-city campus literally <10 blocks from Jefferson's Campus. I can't speak to the facilities, but they use a H/HP/P/F grading scheme. It is perhaps statistically easier to get into Drexel (likely) because they have had a recent push toward non-traditional students. While Temple and Jeff may be considered more traditional institutions. As for the "league-dness," I believe the expression is P=MD.

However to compare the curricula: Both Temple and Jeff offer an Integrated Curriculum (IC) which is essentially lecture-based blocks to learn your classes the first 2 years. To my understanding (and please correct me if I'm mistaken), Jeff utilizes "a small group problem-based learning environment" at some point in the curriculum, but it is unclear to me whether that means you work in a group on your cadaver for anatomy vs. offer a true PBL curriculum. Drexel on the other hand offers both an IFM (the same as IC) lecture style and problem based learning (PBL) curriculum. In the PBL program you work in a small group for your entire first 2 years to study the same "blocks" of medicine primarily through case studies (more of a Socratic method of teaching). All 3 schools have research opportunities if you search for them and all 3 allow away rotations to a variety of suburban hospitals. (I suspect that Temple probably has the most research opportunities available of the 3, but don't have any evidence of this.)

The location is essentially the same for all 3. All 3 are Philly campuses, expect that Philly is an unsavory place. At Temple you will find that every building requires you to have an ID to enter and there will be a blue light on every corner. As long as you stay on campus you are just as safe as if you were on any other Philly campus. There are a lot of homeless people in Philly regardless of which of the 3 campuses you end up on; be prepared to ignore a lot of people and constantly lie about never having money on you.

The costs are essentially the same for all 3 whether you are IS or OOS. Be prepared to spend a lot of money.

My suggestions is to find the one that has the "best fit" for you. Numbers and advice will tell you that all 3 are almost identical. As said above:
darkjedi said:
The difference between Temple and Jefferson is minimal and would mainly depend on which you felt was a better fit. If you are lucky enough to attend the interview days and second looks for both schools, hopefully that will give you a better indication of which school you would prefer.
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the best way to answer your question is to ask students at Jefferson and temple about what their typical day is like and if they are happy at their school. for example, I have heard from students at school xxx that they are miserable having to memorize lots of minute, clinically irrelevant details for their classes whereas they say school xxx does not punish you like that.

much is made about the location - they have their pros / cons. temple is in north philly so you're going to get a lot of interesting clinical cases. Jefferson is close to independence hall - very nice area with bars & restaurants & historic attractions in old city. Drexel is in a wealthy suburban neighborhood called east falls which is very beautiful and scenic. I strongly disagree with the notion that Drexel is any less than the other two. Drexel's match list is just as good - look at the variety in both specialty and institutions that Drexel students match to.
 
Vibe-wise I enjoyed Temple much more than Jefferson. However, Jefferson seems to be very well regarded as well in the area. Overall, both seem well-reputed institutions.

The overwhelming support on SDN for Jeff over Temple seems to be solely location. Anyone else have any other reasons besides the fact that Jeff is in Center City?
 
iancurtis said:
Vibe-wise I enjoyed Temple much more than Jefferson. However, Jefferson seems to be very well regarded as well in the area. Overall, both seem well-reputed institutions.

The overwhelming support on SDN for Jeff over Temple seems to be solely location. Anyone else have any other reasons besides the fact that Jeff is in Center City?
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Off the top of my head, Jeff is H/P/F as opposed to H/HP/P/F at Temple (I think this is the case, correct me if I'm wrong). Jefferson also has one of the largest (the largest?) classes in the country, so we naturally have a very large alumni network. We also just got a new anatomy lab that is pretty much the same setup as Temple's. As someone previously mentioned, some parts of the campus are currently undergoing renovations but should be completed by Spring 2014.

Temple is a fine medical school, and I certainly liked it, but the area was really what turned me off. I lived in a shady part of South Philly for a part of undergrad, which itself was located in West Philly, and even I felt a little uneasy at Temple. I'm sure security is on top of things and incidents are few and far between, but I would personally rather have a little more piece of mind.
 
Jefferson's location is safer.
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I preferred Temple enough to not apply to Jeff.

To my knowledge, Jefferson and Temple have similar facilities. Both hospitals are very large and include Level 1 Trauma Centers. Both Temple and Jeff have the benefit of being located in Philadelphia (large patient base).

You'll find folks who are interested in outreach-type work at either institution, but Temple is explicitly dedicated to reaching out to the poor community in which it is located. Temple has an organization called Temple Emergency Action Corps (TEAC) through which students can work in disaster relief efforts (started in the post-Katrina chaos). An affiliated branch (TEAC-Homeless, TEACH) also relies on medical student involvement and reaches out to the homeless in Philadelphia. These were big selling points for me. I have heard it argued that an advantage of training at TUSM is the community's extreme poverty (the logic would be that poor people lack access to health care and therefore have health problems that are not seen in more affluent communities, helping to diversify the students's knowledge base). An article from NPR discussing poverty in Philadelphia references an elementary school that is close to one of Temple's hospitals. Every once in awhile, financial problems are mentioned in association with Temple's Hospitals - presumably at least in part because the folks in the community who use the Temple University Hospital have Medicaid/no insurance.

Of course, with this poverty comes a high crime rate, and there is no doubt that TUSM is in a relatively dangerous neighborhood. In general, Temple medical students/residents live in Center City or Manayunk, though, just as Jefferson medical students do.

I believe that Temple's location and community are among its primary strengths due to the poverty of the surrounding community. On the other hand, I could see why you'd prefer Jefferson for the location/security. I have tried to lay out some of my thoughts in a reasonably objective fashion, although I obviously favor TUSM. I hope some of you find this helpful.
 
Yeah, Temple does have some pretty awesome community outreach programs. If you're looking to get involved with that sort of stuff and are leaning towards Jeff, then JeffHOPE is something similar that is also a big selling point. Obviously it won't be with the exact same patient population but the clinics we serve are definitely for under-served populations like the homeless and refugees.

Either school is a great choice. It's just a matter of where you feel most comfortable and fit the best.
 
Doctor Strange said:
Jefferson also has one of the largest (the largest?) classes in the country, so we naturally have a very large alumni network.
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Drexel also has an incoming class size of 260 each year, both are tied as largest incoming classes. The 3 are incredibly similar schools.
 
Jefferson's hospital system is what stands out to me. It is highly ranked in many specialties, and it made it into the US News honor roll.
 
smuscs said:
Jefferson's hospital system is what stands out to me. It is highly ranked in many specialties, and it made it into the US News honor roll.
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it's not like the OP is gonna be a resident...
 
Doctor Strange said:
It comes into a play a bit when you're on 3rd and 4th year clerkships, though, since most of our students rotate through the Jeff hospital for multiple blocks.
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Exactly my point. I am thinking ahead.
 
Doctor Strange said:
Did not know that. It's kind of a moot point, though, considering the OP is asking about Temple and Jefferson.
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From within this thread:
CarlosDanger said:
How do you guys think Drexel compares to Temple and Jefferson?
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EDIT: He's not OP, but if he's still following the conversation, it might have relavence? (but prlly not 🙁)
 
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Ace-Co-A said:
I preferred Temple enough to not apply to Jeff.

To my knowledge, Jefferson and Temple have similar facilities. Both hospitals are very large and include Level 1 Trauma Centers. Both Temple and Jeff have the benefit of being located in Philadelphia (large patient base).

You'll find folks who are interested in outreach-type work at either institution, but Temple is explicitly dedicated to reaching out to the poor community in which it is located. Temple has an organization called Temple Emergency Action Corps (TEAC) through which students can work in disaster relief efforts (started in the post-Katrina chaos). An affiliated branch (TEAC-Homeless, TEACH) also relies on medical student involvement and reaches out to the homeless in Philadelphia. These were big selling points for me. I have heard it argued that an advantage of training at TUSM is the community's extreme poverty (the logic would be that poor people lack access to health care and therefore have health problems that are not seen in more affluent communities, helping to diversify the students's knowledge base). An article from NPR discussing poverty in Philadelphia references an elementary school that is close to one of Temple's hospitals. Every once in awhile, financial problems are mentioned in association with Temple's Hospitals - presumably at least in part because the folks in the community who use the Temple University Hospital have Medicaid/no insurance.

Of course, with this poverty comes a high crime rate, and there is no doubt that TUSM is in a relatively dangerous neighborhood. In general, Temple medical students/residents live in Center City or Manayunk, though, just as Jefferson medical students do.

I believe that Temple's location and community are among its primary strengths due to the poverty of the surrounding community. On the other hand, I could see why you'd prefer Jefferson for the location/security. I have tried to lay out some of my thoughts in a reasonably objective fashion, although I obviously favor TUSM. I hope some of you find this helpful.
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Thank you for this!
 
I'm quite surprised by the SDN lean towards Jeff. I know people love to say rankings don't matter, but they do! Many residency programs use an algorithm that takes into account the US News & World Report ranking to give you an overall numeric score. Of course, many other factors are involved in the algorithm, however, if you want to maximize your chance at a good residency spot, I would opt for the highest research ranked school to which you are accepted.

I realize this will probably make people mad, but just my two cents!
 
greenflower said:
I'm quite surprised by the SDN lean towards Jeff. I know people love to say rankings don't matter, but they do! Many residency programs use an algorithm that takes into account the US News & World Report ranking to give you an overall numeric score. Of course, many other factors are involved in the algorithm, however, if you want to maximize your chance at a good residency spot, I would opt for the highest research ranked school to which you are accepted.

I realize this will probably make people mad, but just my two cents!
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Rankings matter, but 13 slots difference between two schools in the middleish of the pack does not matter at all, GUARANTEED. Jefferson is located in a much safer area, which means there are safe affordable places within walking or short commuting distance. The importance of this can't be oversold, especially if you don't have the time management skills to regularly be making long commutes 🙂

Edit: I take that back. Rankings do not matter, perceived prestige and strength of the school does matter. A school can rise or fall 10 spots on US News over the course of a couple years and residency program directors do not really worry about/monitor that. But they probably will view an applicant from Harvard with more benefit of the doubt than an applicant from UMass, even with a similar profile.
 
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scarletgirl777 said:
Rankings matter, but 13 slots difference between two schools in the middleish of the pack does not matter at all, GUARANTEED. Jefferson is located in a much safer area, which means there are safe affordable places within walking or short commuting distance. The importance of this can't be oversold, especially if you don't have the time management skills to regularly be making long commutes 🙂

Edit: I take that back. Rankings do not matter, perceived prestige and strength of the school does matter. A school can rise or fall 10 spots on US News over the course of a couple years and residency program directors do not really worry about/monitor that. But they probably will view an applicant from Harvard with more benefit of the doubt than an applicant from UMass, even with a similar profile.
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Lol... I'm glad we have a medical student on here that can "GUARANTEE" what residency directors look for.
 
CATmeowMD61 said:
Lol... I'm glad we have a medical student on here that can "GUARANTEE" what residency directors look for.
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You're calling me out but not the guy who says program directors plug US News Rankings into an algorithm (wonder what data was used to build that formula lol) to score applicants? Come on. Do you seriously think there are PDs out there that are insecure enough that they will show preference between two solid, average schools in the same city because one school is 10ish spots higher in US News?
 
As a Temple medical student who lives about a block away from Jeff, I feel I finally have my platform to publicly bitch a little about the snooty Jeff library rules...YAY!

Jeff charges non-Jeff people $7/day to enter the library, and about $500/year if you want to attend more than once. This is very annoying to me considering Temple & Penn both have open FREE library access to medical students from other schools (you know, for the betterment of community knowledge, etc).

I don't really know much else about Jeff, but my experience with the library situation made me feel some bad vibes from Jeff. I had visions of the Grinch (likely in cahoots with Gollum) drawing up these generous library rules.
-----

Anyway, since I'm not actually a Jeff hater (my issues are with the lib), my REAL advice for the original poster is as follows:
1) Go to second look for both Temple & Jeff and see which school you think you'd fit into best. Although Temple ranks technically higher, they're close enough that it shouldn't override which school you think you'd be happier at. Trust your gut.
2) Keep the two schools in a financial bidding war to see where you get the most $$$.​
 
CATmeowMD61 said:
As a Temple medical student who lives about a block away from Jeff, I feel I finally have my platform to publicly bitch a little about the snooty Jeff library rules...YAY!

Jeff charges non-Jeff people $7/day to enter the library, and about $500/year if you want to attend more than once. This is very annoying to me considering Temple & Penn both have open FREE library access to medical students from other schools (you know, for the betterment of community knowledge, etc).

I don't really know much else about Jeff, but my experience with the library situation made me feel some bad vibes from Jeff. I had visions of the Grinch (likely in cahoots with Gollum) drawing up these generous library rules.
-----

Anyway, since I'm not actually a Jeff hater (my issues are with the lib), my REAL advice for the original poster is as follows:
1) Go to second look for both Temple & Jeff and see which school you think you'd fit into best. Although Temple ranks technically higher, they're close enough that it shouldn't override which school you think you'd be happier at. Trust your gut.
2) Keep the two schools in a financial bidding war to see where you get the most $$$.​
Click to expand...

I agree with those two last statements. I personally enjoyed Temple more than Jefferson. However, as of now, Jefferson would be significantly cheaper (around 60k cheaper). This may change if I were to receive a merit scholarship at Temple or if either school offers a great financial aid package.

I like both schools though and I'm not sure if it'll have to come down to financing just yet.
 
It never hurts to send a polite letter to the office saying a school is your top choice, but finances are a consideration.
 
I'm a Temple student and my study partner at Temple, his SO is a Jeff student. From what I have heard from their relationship:

1) Half the time my friend loves to complain about taking the subway to Temple to study. The other half of the time he says he loves that he can come home (they live next to Jefferson and 20 min from Temple) and relax away from school at night. Overall though, I would say that in terms of comfort of living, Jefferson has a superior location.
2) My Temple friend seems to be the one "teaching" his SO more often. Particularly noticed this around board study time. This is likely because he is just the better student of the two though. He really is just a very smart guy. In terms of curriculum, I'd say Temple anatomy and neuro are both taught significantly better in the pre-clinical years, but endocrine was taught better at Jeff.
3) My Temple friend's SO always seems shocked at our insane patient stories. I get the sense that we see a lot more crazy stuff at Temple - there is a never ending supply of violent injury, crazy patients, and advanced unmanaged chronic conditions that we deal with at Temple (main hospital). I realized that we get to do a lot more early on in patient care since the population is so under-served in North Philly. Jeff is where I'd prefer to be a patient, however at Jeff you have more patients declining to be treated by the med student than you have at Temple, so as a medical student I'd say Temple wins for hands-on clinical experience.

Both my friends are smart and are fiercely loyal to their respective med schools though. You can't go wrong between these two. Good luck & Congratulations!
 
iancurtis said:
I agree with those two last statements. I personally enjoyed Temple more than Jefferson. However, as of now, Jefferson would be significantly cheaper (around 60k cheaper). This may change if I were to receive a merit scholarship at Temple or if either school offers a great financial aid package.

I like both schools though and I'm not sure if it'll have to come down to financing just yet.
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60k isn't chump change and it's probably worth it to choose Jeff if that difference stays the same. If you are going to Temple for a 2nd look it might not hurt to reach out to the financial aid office and discuss how you really want to come there but that finances are a consideration. This definitely works, you can get tens of thousands of extra scholarship money this way if a school knows you are seriously considering a similar alternative.
 
Kind of curious as to why Jefferson is $60k cheaper for you? I'm also looking at both but the differences in tuition is just over $2k a year ($8k total). They're both in Philly so for my purposes I'm assuming my personal COL would be the same regardless (but even the ones listed by the schools only differ by ~$7k per year).
 
Elewynne said:
Kind of curious as to why Jefferson is $60k cheaper for you? I'm also looking at both but the differences in tuition is just over $2k a year ($8k total). They're both in Philly so for my purposes I'm assuming my personal COL would be the same regardless (but even the ones listed by the schools only differ by ~$7k per year).
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Probably because of a scholarship offer at Jefferson. They offer some need based grants.
 
Elewynne said:
Kind of curious as to why Jefferson is $60k cheaper for you? I'm also looking at both but the differences in tuition is just over $2k a year ($8k total). They're both in Philly so for my purposes I'm assuming my personal COL would be the same regardless (but even the ones listed by the schools only differ by ~$7k per year).
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I received a merit scholarship from Jefferson. However, the difference between the schools may change once I've filed my FAFSA and schools have sent out financial aid.
 
iancurtis said:
I received a merit scholarship from Jefferson. However, the difference between the schools may change once I've filed my FAFSA and schools have sent out financial aid.
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I thought Jefferson doesn't do merit scholarships? @iancurtis, Would you mind telling us more? 😀
 
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