Michigan vs. Wayne State ($$)

[doctoroftha313]

So I guess Michigan vs. School X ($$) threads are trending these days, but here's mine anyways. At this point, I'm leaning towards taking a full-tuition scholarship at Wayne State but am having a hard time doing so.

Basically,

Michigan (in-state):
-Dream School - amazing facilities, many research opportunities
-Cost of attendance about 180k (pre-interest) - pretty much full price
-Really like their pre-clinical curriculum - flextime quizzes, P/F
-Ann Arbor is a huge plus!
-Match list from 2011: http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/match/matchlist11.pdf
-More match lists: http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/match/matchlist.htm

Wayne State (in-state):
-Cost of attendance about 25k-30k total (WAY cheaper) thanks to scholarship
-H/P/F grading with Z-scored grading on exams
-BIG class size (may even be the biggest) - 290 students
-Clinically, Detroit has a lot to offer
-Match list from 2012: (see attachment)
-More match lists: http://www.med.wayne.edu/studentorgs/aoa/Useful%20Links/WSU%20Match%20Lists/matchlist.asp

As for what specialty I want to go into, I really don't know just yet - keeping my options open. I'm really just looking for more insight in case I should be considering something that I am not considering.

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[Studly]

I know of someone who was in the same position as you and they chose Michigan, they are now a 3rd year with no regrets.

 

[doctoroftha313]

For the people who have voted, why did you choose what you chose? Any insight will be really appreciated!

 

[doctoroftha313]

Anyone else?

 

[onecountry]

Wayne would be a big plus for me due to full ride. You can do whatever speciality in both places.

 

[Beekachu]

If the costs were equal, which would you choose? If it's Michigan:

I've heard from other applicants/current students (and the Director even mentioned this at the interview day), that if deciding what school to attend comes down to cost and you'd greatly prefer Michigan, call him up to see if there's a way to make costs comparable.

But with the huge difference in cost as it stands, I would personally choose Wayne State. I don't see any CONS on your lists (besides price), and personally, I just couldn't pass up the potential to get away nearly debt free!

 

[RedSox10]

Michigan. Keep in mind that Michigan is "full sticker price" for an IN-STATE applicant. Even with Michigan debt, you ll be far better off than anyone who had to choose a private school or OOS school. Michigan is just THAT much better its worth it.

 

[Knocked Up]

Michigan. 9 times out of 10 you take the money. Maybe 9.9 times out of 10. This is an exception.

 

[flatearth22]

Go to Michigan. The regret of having greater debt isn't as bad as the regret of not reaching your full potential, IMO. If the schools were closer ranked then it'd be a no-brainer but UMich is top 10 while Wayne is in the 70's....huge difference.

 

[Goblue89]

I stopped reading after you said Michigan was your dream school. Seems like the answer was in the question

 

[235788]

wayne!

 

[235788]

Go to Michigan. The regret of having greater debt isn't as bad as the regret of not reaching your full potential, IMO. If the schools were closer ranked then it'd be a no-brainer but UMich is top 10 while Wayne is in the 70's....huge difference.

yeah, but look at their match list.

 

[membername3]

Ask yourself a few questions OP. Is whatever advantage Michigan going to give you worth an extra 200k plus 6.8% capitalizing interest starting day one. Are the extra research opportunities worth that much money? Is the extra prestige worth that much money? Is the higher possibility of doing a more prestigious residency worth that much money? Does the prestige of residency in your desired field even matter if you're not going into academics? Personally, I would answer no to all of these.

Wayne matches people into top notch residencies in nearly every specialty every year. Work hard at Wayne and be one of those people, come out 200k ahead (actually 300k when it's all said and done due to interest), and be one of the few with minimal debt that everyone envies.

 

[anon747]

I'm inclined to agree with those arguing that you accept the full-tuition scholarship. I think issues of "prestige" and the supposed opportunities that go along with that can get really overblown. Having attended one of the most prestigious undergrad schools in the country, I do know a bit about this. In the long run, your individual performance is what will count. Either way, you'll be able to do what you want to do career wise. However, in terms of your life in general, the high debt will ultimately limit your life options far more than going to a less prestigious medical school. If you take on mountains of debt out of some form of vanity (or a naive belief that the "prestige" and "opportunities" will tangibly justify the higher cost), then you will probably have a lot of regrets later on. I think the most admirable and mature choice here would be to accept the scholarship. I think it's a choice that residency directors and future employers would very much respect you for. It would reflect well on you.

 

[shinny437]

I also think Michigan would be a better choice! Michigan is a much better school for facilities and rankings. They are one of the top schools to produce the best residents. Even if you pay full price there, it will benefit you in the long run. Michigan will provide you with a better education and better residency. The Michigan name will mean more too since people know the rigor of the school. To succeed at a top 10 school will mean more than a mediocre school. Your degree and experiences will probably make you more money in the long run. Say you make $200,000 because of the status/prestige/education you gain from Michigan and your Wayne State counterpart only makes $180,000. It would only take 7 years to pay the difference in school costs and I doubt your medical career would only be that long.
I just think U of M has better resources and experiences to offer. It is well-known to be a great institution. Sadly, perception is a lot of it and being a Michigan grad will make you look good.

 

[Beekachu]

I also think Michigan would be a better choice! Michigan is a much better school for facilities and rankings. They are one of the top schools to produce the best residents. Even if you pay full price there, it will benefit you in the long run. Michigan will provide you with a better education and better residency. The Michigan name will mean more too since people know the rigor of the school. To succeed at a top 10 school will mean more than a mediocre school. Your degree and experiences will probably make you more money in the long run. Say you make $200,000 because of the status/prestige/education you gain from Michigan and your Wayne State counterpart only makes $180,000. It would only take 7 years to pay the difference in school costs and I doubt your medical career would only be that long.
I just think U of M has better resources and experiences to offer. It is well-known to be a great institution. Sadly, perception is a lot of it and being a Michigan grad will make you look good.

This is ridiculous. The name of an institution alone will not create a dream career for you. Regardless of which school you choose, you will need to be self-motivated and work hard to achieve whatever goals you have set for yourself in your education and career. You will get a good, proper education from either school, but only if you work for it.

Also the name of the medical school you attended will not dictate your salary coming out of residency.

Another possibility to consider: if you need to put a given amount of effort to get the grades, scores, and overall education to achieve a given resume for a residency application.. at Michigan that might put you at the middle of your class whereas, at Wayne State you may find yourself near the top of your class. And that may be a tipping point in your favor come residency app time.

Ultimately, the OP should go where it feels right, but don't pick one school strictly for the name. A name is not worth the cost.

 

[shinny437]

This is ridiculous. The name of an institution alone will not create a dream career for you. Regardless of which school you choose, you will need to be self-motivated and work hard to achieve whatever goals you have set for yourself in your education and career. You will get a good, proper education from either school, but only if you work for it.

Also the name of the medical school you attended will not dictate your salary coming out of residency.

Another possibility to consider: if you need to put a given amount of effort to get the grades, scores, and overall education to achieve a given resume for a residency application.. at Michigan that might put you at the middle of your class whereas, at Wayne State you may find yourself near the top of your class. And that may be a tipping point in your favor come residency app time.

Ultimately, the OP should go where it feels right, but don't pick one school strictly for the name. A name is not worth the cost.

I'm not saying that the name itself will get you a dream career, it's just better recognized. A resident director at Stanford will probably be more familiar with the quality of education and rigor at U of M, making you a more familiar candidate. It's not comparing apples to apples if the resident directors are not familiar with the school Not to mention it's not a highly ranked school.

The underlined comment essentially supports my remark. You will find yourself at the top of Wayne State's list because it is not as competitive. That is a well known fact. I'm not sure I would want to gloat about that. I might feel better being in the middle of a well-established class with known difficulty.

Anyway, our opinions really don't matter. I was accepted to both and chose u of m because the facilities are much better. I got a better feel from the students and I like that it's a smaller class. Wayne's students gave me a vibe that they really didn't know their classmates and it wasn't as supportive as an environment. Plus, I stayed in Detroit for undergrad, I wanted a new surrounding. U of M also has more opportunities for surgical specialties. I also work as a nurse at the DMC (Wayne's major hospital system) and I am ready to move on. I don't think the hospital system is as good as U of M's.

Whatever you like ... you should do. I know people who enjoy both. It just depends on the beat of your drum.

 

[deleted361023]

I would go with michigan. It is a much better school.You will be able to pay off your debt quickly.

 

[doctoroftha313]

Is it THAT much better? I know there's a huge difference in rankings but Wayne seems to have a pretty good match list as well. Since I'd be paying for Michigan via just loans that seems like a very costly price.

Michigan. Keep in mind that Michigan is "full sticker price" for an IN-STATE applicant. Even with Michigan debt, you ll be far better off than anyone who had to choose a private school or OOS school. Michigan is just THAT much better its worth it.

 

[membername3]

Is it THAT much better? I know there's a huge difference in rankings but Wayne seems to have a pretty good match list as well. Since I'd be paying for Michigan via just loans that seems like a very costly price.

I don't think anyone can accurately quantify how much better one school is over another. Michigan has a higher ranked hospital, way more research dollars, prestige, etc. It's not that Wayne is a bad school, in fact, it's a pretty solid state school with a good clinical reputation. It's just that Michigan is one of the greatest medical schools in the country and it's really easy for a school like Michigan to overshadow a school like Wayne.

But in the end, both schools teach you the same material, and in the end, you'll still get your MD degree.

Theoretically, if you're at the top of your class at Wayne, you'll be able to snag a great residency and possibly end up in the same place you would have if you had gone to Michigan. Except you won't be in debt until you're 45.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[MadRadLad]

Wayne has a pretty solid match list too. Also - do not overlook the benefits of doing your clinicals at the DMC. It will give you a very large variety of patients and I doubt UMAA hospitals will have the same kind of diversity.

I personally would go for the cheaper option unless you really don't like the Detroit area.

Also - Cost of living in Detroit is pretty cheap. If you're not paying for tuition, the Cost of Living on Wayne's website comes out to about $92k over four years. At UMAA, you'd be paying $116k in just tuiton, not to mention cost of living that is about $100k on top of that. So it comes to about $92k vs. $216k. If you're paying all through loans, that can end up being pretty pricy.

So it's up to you. If you think that the UM degree is worth $124k + interest, go for it. Ann Arbor is a nice town.

 

[ruiner]

Go to Michigan. The regret of having greater debt isn't as bad as the regret of not reaching your full potential, IMO. If the schools were closer ranked then it'd be a no-brainer but UMich is top 10 while Wayne is in the 70's....huge difference.

school wont make you "reach your full potential." that being said, you say u mich is your dream school. go for it then. see if you can get any financial aid (though ive heard the calling up works best for OOS students). But realize the education is the same at every school and you will be able to get into any specialty anywhere. amazingly, your potential will be reached!

 

[doctoroftha313]

school wont make you "reach your full potential." that being said, you say u mich is your dream school. go for it then. see if you can get any financial aid (though ive heard the calling up works best for OOS students). But realize the education is the same at every school and you will be able to get into any specialty anywhere. amazingly, your potential will be reached!

I tried with the aid, though it wasn't successful. Thanks for all the help everyone!