No-II Gang HOW WE FEELIN ABOUT THIS WEEK? ~2020 edition~

[Removed 982794]

Let's burn some money

I keep panic adding schools then panicking that it’s too late to panic add schools

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[ThePACK]

For some reason, I wasn't worried about not having any IIs yet until this week hit. feelsbad

Yea my mindset this week went from "chill its still super early" to "well I mean it isn't that early anymore." Having said that I still have a lot of hope given the delays this cycle. There are still TONS of IIs to go out...

 

[stormking]

Yea my mindset this week went from "chill its still super early" to "well I mean it isn't that early anymore." Having said that I still have a lot of hope given the delays this cycle. There are still TONS of IIs to go out...

Especially when you read someone got accepted three hours after the interview. Me started to wonder what's going on in this world.

 

[Nontraddddds]

This cycle is a weird one so it's not over until you get that rejection. Dont panic just yet. I am not even sure if the Thanksgiving rule still applies this year since adcoms are working from home and they may be slow at processing apps? Regardless, stay positive guys!

 

[Bloobury]

I don't know if this makes ya'll feel better, but every once in awhile I'll come across a thread on here where I'm like "Wait, THIS idiot got accepted to medical school??" and it makes me feel better about my own chances.

 

[coramDeo]

This cycle is a weird one so it's not over until you get that rejection. Dont panic just yet. I am not even sure if the Thanksgiving rule still applies this year since adcoms are working from home and they may be slow at processing apps? Regardless, stay positive guys!

I've read that rather than the Thanksgiving rule, it might be the 'Christmas rule' this year, not only because of the pandemic, but also because of the increased # of apps and many schools are backed up in their processes.

 

[spottedcory]

I don't know if this makes ya'll feel better, but every once in awhile I'll come across a thread on here where I'm like "Wait, THIS idiot got accepted to medical school??" and it makes me feel better about my own chances.

I always looked up to my relatives as role models, because they're like medical gods, and I always figured their journey to medical school seemed so perfect and non-stressful. But my cousin was accepted to her T-5 off the waitlist in May, and my uncle had to reapply. I guess hearing about the stressful parts of their app cycle made me feel a lot better. I was stressing to my uncle about interviews 2 weeks ago and he was like "Isn't it too early to be worried about that?" and I was like lol ur right

 

[meowkat]

Really bummed out by the lack of love from Texas schools as a Texas resident. I got one II already but it doesn't look like that school is doing prematch this year and so many other Texas resident have already been accepted at Texas schools. I feel like my chances are so much lower because OOS schools don't really consider Texas students and interviewing for Texas schools after prematch date means there are less spots to compete for. I'm trying to stay positive and I know it's still "early" but if I'm not getting considered for OOS schools, it's really late in the cycle for me.

I'm know I'm feeling sorry for myself and I should be grateful for the II I have but it's just so hard when others have already been accepted.

That being said, I wish everyone luck and positivity and may we all be blessed by the Interview Fairy by Thanksgiving! And may we all be visited by the Acceptance Fairy by April and the Rejection Demon go drown in a pit of lava. F that guy.

 

[aodnejoch]

Just got an II today. But what's crazy is I just panic-added that school on Monday and submitted 2 days ago since I hadn't heard back from anywhere else yet... This process is clearly so random, keep your hopes up everyone!

 

[raginpagan]

Just got an II today. But what's crazy is I just panic-added that school on Monday and submitted 2 days ago since I hadn't heard back from anywhere else yet... This process is clearly so random, keep your hopes up everyone!

Wow, congrats. MD or DO?

 

[drbatsandwich]

Just got an II today. But what's crazy is I just panic-added that school on Monday and submitted 2 days ago since I hadn't heard back from anywhere else yet... This process is clearly so random, keep your hopes up everyone!

Maybe not so random for people with 98th percentile MCATs...

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Wright State and University of Washington. The lesson I take from this is don't apply to schools that start with W.

I got a post sec R from Wisconsin

 

[MotherofDragonflies]

I got a post sec R from Wisconsin

Well, no II’s this week either. One more R (WVU).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I always looked up to my relatives as role models, because they're like medical gods, and I always figured their journey to medical school seemed so perfect and non-stressful. But my cousin was accepted to her T-5 off the waitlist in May, and my uncle had to reapply. I guess hearing about the stressful parts of their app cycle made me feel a lot better. I was stressing to my uncle about interviews 2 weeks ago and he was like "Isn't it too early to be worried about that?" and I was like lol ur right

I didn’t get into my school until March, and my friend got accepted in May. I have classmates who didn’t get in until June and July.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Maybe not so random for people with 98th percentile MCATs...

I had a 98th %ile MCAT. It still feels random, trust me. I got flat out rejected from two schools that should have been a lock.

 

[Dokt0r]

Ready for another week of disappointment.

 

[Nontraddddds]

I sense 2 IIs coming your way.

 

[stormking]

I sense 2 IIs coming your way.

Must be coming from Mars medical school. It's takes few light years to come

 

[mwsapphire]

Guys, last cycle I was complete in Sept for DO/MD schools. I got my interview invites in Dec, and had two interviews in Jan. 1 R, 1 WL, and then an acceptance in June!!!

Keep staying hopeful I was a regular on this thread last year and then I got two invites on the same day

 

[deleted1009115]

Just got my first II to my state school guys!! Best of luck to everyone here, you got this!

 

[MDMechEngr]

Let's burn some money

wait until the DO schools ask for your non-refundable deposit ($2K to $3K) to hold your seat. The deposit for MD schools is $150 to 200$ on average and you get it refunded to you if you withdraw by a certain date.

 

[KnightDoc]

wait until the DO schools ask for your non-refundable deposit ($2K to $3K) to hold your seat. The deposit for MD schools is $150 to 200$ on average and you get it refunded to you if you withdraw by a certain date.

Yup -- it's how they turn lemons into lemonade given how many people stick around once they receive an A from a MD.

@Goro likes to refer to secondaries as "a tax on the hopelessly naïve, if not pathologically optimistic." I wonder what kind of a BS tax he considers this, given that he works at a DO, since it certainly isn't an ethically justifiable compensation for having to replace a candidate with someone from a WL?

 

[deleted880375]

Yup -- it's how they turn lemons into lemonade given how many people stick around once they receive an A from a MD.

@Goro likes to refer to secondaries as "a tax on the hopelessly naïve, if not pathologically optimistic." I wonder what kind of a BS tax he considers this, given that he works at a DO, since it certainly isn't an ethically justifiable compensation for having to replace a candidate with someone from a WL?

The unjustifiable DO deposits are underscored even more so during a pandemic when many families are hurting financially.

 

[KnightDoc]

The unjustifiable DO deposits are underscored even more so during a pandemic when many families are hurting financially.

Yup! They do it because they can, and they clearly don't care. The market allows it due to the supply/demand imbalance. In another universe, they'd be offering money back guarantees rather than requiring large non-refundable deposits.

It's a big reason why I'd never apply DO without giving MD at least one shot. I wouldn't want to find myself in a position to feel pressured to buy that insurance policy, which, at the end of the day, is what they are cynically selling to nervous premeds who don't want to risk maybe losing a year or not getting a preferred DO.

I think it's highly unethical, particularly from professional schools that preach ethics so mightily. But, like with everything else in life, do as they say, not as they do. And make sure to fully disclose anything that might be a red flag on your application, because it's the right thing to do, and we certainly don't want the schools to have to make decisions with incomplete information, even though they require us to do the same!

 

[Nontraddddds]

Yup -- it's how they turn lemons into lemonade given how many people stick around once they receive an A from a MD.

@Goro likes to refer to secondaries as "a tax on the hopelessly naïve, if not pathologically optimistic." I wonder what kind of a BS tax he considers this, given that he works at a DO, since it certainly isn't an ethically justifiable compensation for having to replace a candidate with someone from a WL?

I think what he meant by the bolded statement is that you shouldn't be too excited if a school sends you a secondary. If you receive a secondary from a school that doesnt mean you will get an II. This also goes with schools that screen heavily. He was just trying to help people save some money.

 

[deleted880375]

Yup! They do it because they can, and they clearly don't care. The market allows it due to the supply/demand imbalance. In another universe, they'd be offering money back guarantees rather than requiring large non-refundable deposits.

It's a big reason why I'd never apply DO without giving MD at least one shot. I wouldn't want to find myself in a position to feel pressured to buy that insurance policy, which, at the end of the day, is what they are cynically selling to nervous premeds who don't want to risk maybe losing a year or not getting a preferred DO.

I think it's highly unethical, particularly from professional schools that preach ethics so mightily. But, like with everything else in life, do as they say, not as they do. And make sure to fully disclose anything that might be a red flag on your application, because it's the right thing to do, and we certainly don't want the schools to have to make decisions with incomplete information, even though they require us to do the same!

Partly, they are profiting off fear. Just like medical school "consultants".

 

[KnightDoc]

I think what he meant by the bolded statement is that you shouldn't be too excited if a school sends you a secondary. If you receive a secondary from a school that doesnt mean you will get an II. This also goes with schools that screen heavily. He was just trying to help people save some money.

Yes, of course. I know exactly what he means. He's implying that schools collect taxes from applicants who don't know enough to know that they have no chance. If secondary fees are taxes in that situation, what are large non-refundable DO deposits, if not taxes on the hopelessly nervous, if not pathologically risk averse?

Personally, I think it is extremely obnoxious for a professional school that preaches ethics to take advantage of its market power to force applicants who can easily be replaced without any adverse economic consequence to the institution to forfeit a significant deposit in order to reserve a seat in a class, but that's just me. I'm not blaming @Goro at all, just pointing out that he works at such an institution, and he is fond of repeating that pithy expression around 150,000 times each cycle, so I was sarcastically inviting him to either justify the practice or similarly characterize it as a tax.

 

[KnightDoc]

Partly, they are profiting off fear. Just like medical school "consultants".

That's right -- except med school consultants aren't actually licensed medical schools, which most people would reasonably hold to a much higher standard. And, it's not partly; it's totally!! Also, if the consultants are actually any good (believe it or not, some are ) and their clients really don't know what they are doing and don't know where else to turn, the consultants are actually providing a service.

 

[MDMechEngr]

Yup! They do it because they can, and they clearly don't care. The market allows it due to the supply/demand imbalance. In another universe, they'd be offering money back guarantees rather than requiring large non-refundable deposits.

It's a big reason why I'd never apply DO without giving MD at least one shot. I wouldn't want to find myself in a position to feel pressured to buy that insurance policy, which, at the end of the day, is what they are cynically selling to nervous premeds who don't want to risk maybe losing a year or not getting a preferred DO.

I think it's highly unethical, particularly from professional schools that preach ethics so mightily. But, like with everything else in life, do as they say, not as they do. And make sure to fully disclose anything that might be a red flag on your application, because it's the right thing to do, and we certainly don't want the schools to have to make decisions with incomplete information, even though they require us to do the same!

You should see what NBOME is doing to the DO's with the PE requirement for this year during a pandemic. The DO's are revolting on the Medical Student DO board. LOL. Honestly, I would have rather pursue a Phd if didn't get into an MD school.

 

[KnightDoc]

You should see what NBOME is doing to the DO's with the PE requirement for this year during a pandemic. The DO's are revolting on the Medical Student DO board. LOL. Honestly, I would have rather pursue a Phd if didn't get into an MD school.

I guess it's their sandbox and they can do what they want, but it's a reason DO will always be second-class, no matter that happens with mergers, etc. No one with a better option would ever subject him or herself to this, and the lowest MD will always be a better option. Very short sighted.

Hopefully someday the market will come into balance, and they'll regret BS like this. With any luck, maybe the current state of many second and third tier MBA and JD programs will provide a glimpse into their future.

 

[Nontraddddds]

Yes, of course. I know exactly what he means. He's implying that schools collect taxes from applicants who don't know enough to know that they have no chance. If secondary fees are taxes in that situation, what are large non-refundable DO deposits, if not taxes on the hopelessly nervous, if not pathologically risk averse?

Personally, I think it is extremely obnoxious for a professional school that preaches ethics to take advantage of its market power to force applicants who can easily be replaced without any adverse economic consequence to the institution to forfeit a significant deposit in order to reserve a seat in a class, but that's just me. I'm not blaming @Goro at all, just pointing out that he works at such an institution, and he is fond of repeating that pithy expression around 150,000 times each cycle, so I was sarcastically inviting him to either justify the practice or similarly characterize it as a tax.

I totally agree with the exorbitant deposits at most DO schools. It's ridiculous.

 

[stormking]

I totally agree with the exorbitant deposits at most DO schools. It's ridiculous.

As one of my former infamous employer said, we all complaint the cable bills each month, but we all eventually suck it up. Sad reality

 

[KnightDoc]

As one of my former infamous employer said, we all complaint the cable bills each month, but we all eventually suck it up. Sad reality

Yup, until streaming. Monopolists take advantage of a situation, and eventually people find an alternative. People also used to suck up high taxi fares in NYC. Not so much anymore. Hopefully, someday supply/demand will come into balance, and they won't be able to get away with this. It happens all the time.

 

[Bloobury]

I'm fighting the system by only applying for six schools. And if I don't get in, I might just focus my efforts next year on three.

 

[syringes]

I just completed my last secondaries on Monday and no interviews yet!! I didn't even receive secondaries until the end of September and got most of them in the first week of october with a few stragglers. Maybe that will make some people feel better! Reading this forum is not great for my anxiety. I have read elsewhere that schools don't necessarily review in the order their received. But I'm also like if they have 10,000 applicants and mine just got added to the top of the stack even if they filter by various qualities in a way that is favorable to me, I'm still way at the bottom?! I suppose the conventional wisdom is to somehow not worry until winter time...easier said than done.

 

[manhattalorian]

Welcome to the page Syringes, welcome. Please take a seat and take a load off.

 

[Damson]

one of my DO acceptances was $1000 deposit only tho

 

[DrRen]

No md invites but 3 do invites :S

 

[Dokt0r]

Me refreshing my email this week for IIs.

 

[Removed 982794]

At what point do we stop holding hope?

 

[KnightDoc]

At what point do we stop holding hope?

I didn't apply this cycle, but I honestly think you are many months away from that point. At many schools, barely half of all IIs have been issued so far, and you should realize that a lot of the early IIs go to those in groups that are prioritized, such as high stat, low SES, 1st gen, URM, etc. If you don't fall into one of those groups, there is a very real chance that you haven't even been reviewed yet, which would make it very premature to be writing this cycle off.

If it were me (as it will be next year), I wouldn't freak out until probably the time between Christmas and New Year. In any event, I'd be following the incessant adcom advice of continually working to improve my application, in case I ever need to reapply, at least until I received my first A (not II). Good luck!!!

 

[BeingForItself]

At what point do we stop holding hope?

I'm planning to do that around December

 

[Bloobury]

At what point do we stop holding hope?

It helps if you didn't have much to begin with ;P

 

[InFreudWeTrust]

At what point do we stop holding hope?

Anything can happen at anytime. There are people who receive one II in March and subsequently get accepted (but I personally wouldn't count on that being me).

My confidence of gaining an II would take a big hit starting the first week of December (i.e. I would start to seriously prep for reapplication). My confidence would plummet by the second week of January (i.e. I would essentially convince myself I would be a reapplicant). And lastly, my hopes of gaining an II the end of February would be non-existent. *And I am strictly speaking in regards to a prompt application to US MD schools.

It's always a safe bet to assume that you will have to reapply. The majority don't get in. Some reapply and get in, some reapply and get rejected, and some quit. The only thing you can control is how you react. Are you going to sit home, refreshing your email every 10 minutes waiting for an II? Or are you going to continue to work hard, improving your application so you can achieve your dream?

Nothing but the best to all of you. Keep your heads up and remember that if you truly want to become a doctor, it's not a question of 'if', but 'when'.

 

[MotherofDragonflies]

I had two rejections come in on Wednesday. One was hiding in my spam folder (where it belonged!) and the other was a follow-up email to confirm that the earlier rejection I had received was still in fact, a rejection. Apparently the school had a glitch and sent previously rejected students secondaries (I did not get that). So they sent an email letting me know the rejection was a real rejection. Just in case.

Then, later on in the afternoon on Wednesday I got my an II! Does that mean I can no longer post in this thread?

Also, not gonna lie, I went to the portal today and double checked the Invite was still there.

 

[benignradical]

Dear August Gang,

Got my first II a few days back. There is still hope (even if schools are setting up interviews for January now -.-)

Sincerely,
me

 

[Dokt0r]

Got my first II now. No longer a true member but I still love you all.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Got my first II now. No longer a true member but I still love you all.

Just tonight (Sunday) ?

 

[Dokt0r]

Yes, got an email invite this evening for NYU LI.

 

[thecatdoctor]

On October 1st I tried to ~manifest~ an II for the month of October.....the 31st is getting awfully close