PaWWsta - The Game that WWrites Itself (Game Thread)

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Animal Midwife said:
They'd have to keep forgoing the nightkill for it to "work." If my POE is wrong, you always kill me. That's the only chance at winning. With this strategy, they're ensuring they can't get to f3 (likely not even F4 tbh) because there are too many clears alive (outside of me).
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Who else is as clear as someone would be by you blocking them and a kill still occurring?
Why would it matter how many people are clear if you block the wolf and they're outted?
 
genny said:
I didn’t say it was a winning strategy, just that it’s the least crappy way to lose.
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Again, I'd hardly be able to muster any energy to post if this were my strategy so it confuses me beyond reason. Why wolf if it's for nothing but giving village a victory lap?
 
genny said:
Ok but if they kill a clear, then I’m clear because you blocked me. It doesn’t stop the box from closing in. It just changes who’s holding up the sides.
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That's why they should have always killed me. I'm still clear and I'm going to clear someone else in the world where you're not a wolf. It's a lose-lose situation to attempt anything but those two options. 1 clear > 2 clears.
 
Animal Midwife said:
That's why they should have always killed me. I'm still clear and I'm going to clear someone else in the world where you're not a wolf. It's a lose-lose situation. 1 clear > 2 clears.
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Yeah unless they thought you’d jail yourself? Idk AM, I’m not a wolf, so I don’t know why they wanted to get me misyeeted rather than just rolling over and giving up. If you want to continue to blindly follow mechanics, I will make sure to bring it up every future game 😛
 
WildZoo said:
I'm just saying that, having been in the position of lone wolfing against 7+ villagers, you start to consider 5D chess to avoid a mechanical loss
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How many of those were a basic game with a seer alive?
 
hmm okay gonna be honest I can see a "frame" being put on genny since you did announce that you were going to "take care of" genny last night. I figured that's what you were going to do

But also genny could just be the last wolf lmao
 
genny said:
Yeah unless they thought you’d jail yourself? Idk AM, I’m not a wolf, so I don’t know why they wanted to get me misyeeted rather than just rolling over and giving up. If you want to continue to blindly follow mechanics, I will make sure to bring it up every future game 😛
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Y'all are really telling me I'm blindly following mechanics when

a. I haven't used a single mechanical argument to case anyone

b. I asked you to case Vis

c. You've yeeted zero wolves this game
 
Animal Midwife said:
How many of those were a basic game with a seer alive?
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A seer is not the same thing as a blocker. Of course you kill a seer. A seer can't prevent the death their from happening and out you with a single move. A blocker with one wolf left is more powerful than a seer, but their power lies in the kill actually being performed. Otherwise they're completely useless. That's the whole point. And I get that you would not want to torture yourself by prolonging the game, but depending on where the wolf is positioned in the POE, they could have decided it was worth it for a bit of extra misyeet cushion. Idk. Going into a night knowing you could be blocked and have the whole game end is a scary thing.
 
Anyway, genny could just be the last wolf, but I think it's valuable to discuss and fully consider things outside of mechanics that could be manipulated.

And with that, tinfoil time is over for me, back to making slides.
 
genny said:
I mean, it’s working, right? Y’all are yeeting a villager, so is the choice really that stupid? If you did kill someone other than AM, then AM would have cleared me with the block and that would be a 4-villager bloc instead of 3.

I’m wondering if you didn’t kill AM because you were worried about her being protected? Did Santy not get a blocking message?
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4 villager blocc. Didn’t need to list myself in my reads.
 
WildZoo said:
A seer is not the same thing as a blocker. Of course you kill a seer. A seer can't prevent the death their from happening and out you with a single move. A blocker with one wolf left is more powerful than a seer, but their power lies in the kill actually being performed. Otherwise they're completely useless. That's the whole point. And I get that you would not want to torture yourself by prolonging the game, but depending on where the wolf is positioned in the POE, they could have decided it was worth it for a bit of extra misyeet cushion. Idk. Going into a night knowing you could be blocked and have the whole game end is a scary thing.
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It is when there's one wolf alive. You can't argue your way out of a block no matter how good your argument is and you can't shade someone who was blocked on my death no matter how good your argument is. That's how a seer operates at baseline. You either are or aren't. No in-between. If I'm not killed, I'm eventually going to mechanically out you by sheer "misyeets" left due to you not killing. If I am killed, now you have a new clear that you have even less time to remove before you meet your maker. Basically ensuring you can never touch the multiple other clears that exist alongside them.

I don't think any argument will justify this as strategic to me. It's allowed if the wolf is having fun, but they've mechanically worsened their win chances and there's no ignoring that. The only thing worse would be killing within the POE. (And before there's a comparison to HZD, that wasn't a basic game, no kills were forgone at any point, and the sk nightkilled a wolf).
 
Also AM, if you're the blocker that gave me the message after N1, santy would've known their kill was blocked and they were likely mechanically outted. I don't see why they wouldn't share that with the other wolf/wolves to bus them if it came up.
 
Wondalfy said:
Also AM, if you're the blocker that gave me the message after N1, santy would've known their kill was blocked and they were likely mechanically outted. I don't see why they wouldn't share that with the other wolf/wolves to bus them if it came up.
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Yes, that's why I looked through the entire cycle with TMI lens. Only village didn't know what happened and wolves had to transition to suspecting Santy smoothly without outting themselves. A very cruel exercise.
 
WildZoo said:
Tinfoil:
What if it's not Vis either? What if it's someone else entirely, someone a bit more under the radar, who would actually stand to gain from the blocking pushing through an easy misyeet? Their other option would be to let AM potentially clear people, or even worse, land on the correct block again. If everyone is right about there being 1 wolf left, against 7 (?) villagers, you gotta think outside of the box to survive that. Maybe they were getting creative.
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Wouldn’t they have to start killing again eventually and is it not just pushing the can down the road?

Like okay, if genny is village they’d get genny misyeeted today but then what tomorrow?
The same issue they’d run into today presents itself with AM clearing someone or they just no kill. Would it not be better to get AM off the board and take out a loud village voice?
Only way I could see someone thinking this is a good idea is if they’re just planning on not killing again, but the PoE isn’t large enough for that to work.
 
Animal Midwife said:
They'd have to keep forgoing the nightkill for it to "work." If my POE is wrong, you always kill me. That's the only chance at winning. With this strategy, they're ensuring they can't get to f3 (likely not even F4 tbh) because there are too many clears alive (outside of me).
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This Up Here GIF by Chord Overstreet
 
Animal Midwife said:
It is when there's one wolf alive. You can't argue your way out of a block no matter how good your argument is and you can't shade someone who was blocked on my death no matter how good your argument is. That's how a seer operates at baseline. You either are or aren't. No in-between. If I'm not killed, I'm eventually going to mechanically out you by sheer "misyeets" left due to you not killing. If I am killed, now you have a new clear that you have even less time to remove before you meet your maker. Basically ensuring you can never touch the multiple other clears that exist alongside them.

I don't think any argument will justify this as strategic to me. It's allowed if the wolf is having fun, but they've mechanically worsened their win chances and there's no ignoring that. The only thing worse would be killing within the POE. (And before there's a comparison to HZD, that wasn't a basic game, no kills were forgone at any point, and the sk nightkilled a wolf).
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Yes I know it is functionally the same as a seer, my point is it's even WORSE because you can kill a seer freely without worrying about them surviving and outting you with their own ability. Your first couple sentences are my entire point. I don't think you're getting that my argument is contingent on them wanting to have a chance instead of being mechanically outted or having to work against an additional cleared player (though I do think the former is the more important consideration). Blocc doesn't matter. There are no other true clears. None of that matters because your ability is useless when there aren't any kills happening. Yes, I get it prolongs the game. Yes I get it leaves you alive.


HOWEVER

Getting the chance to play well enough during the day to avoid being misyeeted could, in some minds, in a desperate situation, be worth it. It removes the risk of an instant mechanical loss.
 
samac said:
Wouldn’t they have to start killing again eventually and is it not just pushing the can down the road?

Like okay, if genny is village they’d get genny misyeeted today but then what tomorrow?
The same issue they’d run into today presents itself with AM clearing someone or they just no kill. Would it not be better to get AM off the board and take out a loud village voice?
Only way I could see someone thinking this is a good idea is if they’re just planning on not killing again, but the PoE isn’t large enough for that to work.
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Y'all are far too stuck on "optimal" play without consideration for how bad of a spot this is to be in. No interacting with my tinfoil if you're not taking desperation into account, smh.
 
WildZoo said:
Y'all are far too stuck on "optimal" play without consideration for how bad of a spot this is to be in. No interacting with my tinfoil if you're not taking desperation into account, smh.
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Yeah ik I'm a noob so my opinions probably aren't great here but I would have stopped killing after that lol
 
WildZoo said:
Yes I know it is functionally the same as a seer, my point is it's even WORSE because you can kill a seer freely without worrying about them surviving and outting you with their own ability. Your first couple sentences are my entire point. I don't think you're getting that my argument is contingent on them wanting to have a chance instead of being mechanically outted or having to work against an additional cleared player (though I do think the former is the more important consideration). Blocc doesn't matter. There are no other true clears. None of that matters because your ability is useless when there aren't any kills happening. Yes, I get it prolongs the game. Yes I get it leaves you alive.


HOWEVER

Getting the chance to play well enough during the day to avoid being misyeeted could, in some minds, in a desperate situation, be worth it. It removes the risk of an instant mechanical loss.
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Well, actually there are other true clears. I'm never yeeting samac. I'm never yeeting Wonder. I'm also extremely unlikely to ever yeet Sporty. I haven't even listed my village leans yet and we're already at four players. That's no bueno for any chance at winning. Need to get down to two.

I'm not going to shame anyone who does this, but I also don't want to give them false hope if they don't understand the power level of a blocker against one wolf (since this situation pretty much never happens on SDN).
 
Animal Midwife said:
Well, actually there are other true clears. I'm never yeeting samac. I'm never yeeting Wonder. I'm also extremely unlikely to ever yeet Sporty. I haven't even listed my village leans yet and we're already at four players. That's no bueno for any chance at winning. Need to get down to two.

I'm not going to shame anyone who does this, but I also don't want to give them false hope if they don't understand the power level of a blocker against one wolf (since this situation pretty much never happens on SDN).
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I still don't think you're understanding what I'm saying, but that's fine lol doesn't matter to me anyway. We'll see what happens with genny :corny:
 
SportPonies said:
What if the reason it’s still going is because genny has a death avoidance and there’s another wolf 😰

(I don’t actually think this… probably.)
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Then the mods have gone full (or at least 75%) Lawpy.
 
genny said:
I mean, it’s working, right? Y’all are yeeting a villager, so is the choice really that stupid? If you did kill someone other than AM, then AM would have cleared me with the block and that would be a 4-villager bloc instead of 3.

I’m wondering if you didn’t kill AM because you were worried about her being protected? Did Santy not get a blocking message?
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Sure, my master plan was a hail-mary to get exactly one person misyeeted before my death, instead of trying to kill the blocker. Sounds reasonable.
 
ToC is updated btw

Also, it occurred to me that if the game goes into Night 5, night close will be while I am midair, so I'd appreciate it if night actions were submitted early so I can open the thread back up before taking off. I'll post a reminder about this if needed.
 
supershorty said:
ToC is updated btw

Also, it occurred to me that if the game goes into Night 5, night close will be while I am midair, so I'd appreciate it if night actions were submitted early so I can open the thread back up before taking off. I'll post a reminder about this if needed.
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:heckyeah:
 
samac said:
You would stop killing if you were a wolf? Why?
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Well I suppose it would depend a bit on my position in read lists & how likely I would think AM would block me over the night. I'd want to kill AM, but killing AM would hard clear the person blocked by AM that night (assuming one wolf is left), if I didn't think I'd be blocked myself. Whereas currently, no one is "mechanically cleared." Some people are just heavily village-y for voting a wolf/wolves out.

Ultimately the chances of winning either way would be so slim, why not try to misyeet instead?

But realistically, genny is probably the last wolf. I'm mainly voting vis for fun
 
Also the longer a game goes on, the more paranoia and tinfoil come up against others.

And also the obvious reason I'd stop killing -- kills stopping suddenly when I'm roleblocked would 100% out me
 
I'd also weigh the possibility of there being a protection/bodyguard village role since they would most likely protect AM
 
Wondalfy said:
I'd also weigh the possibility of there being a protection/bodyguard village role since they would most likely protect AM
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For future reference, you'd want to kill this ability (not no kill) because they'd be yet another clear that somehow puts any chance of winning into the negatives.
 
Wondalfy said:
Also the longer a game goes on, the more paranoia and tinfoil come up against others.

And also the obvious reason I'd stop killing -- kills stopping suddenly when I'm roleblocked would 100% out me
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if I was told on thread I was going to be blocked then I could see not killing for this exact discussion to happen on thread.
But even then probably only in a situation where I needed one misyeet to win otherwise it’d just dragging out the inevitable to the next night and that sounds like less fun than being blocked and just open wolfing for a day.
 
Wondalfy said:
I'd also weigh the possibility of there being a protection/bodyguard village role since they would most likely protect AM
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If there is is a protector they should probably open their mouths now as a possible second source for no death, but it feels unlikely
 
Animal Midwife said:
For future reference, you'd want to kill this ability (not no kill) because they'd be yet another clear that somehow puts any chance of winning into the negatives.
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Idk how it works in WW but in TOS you don't know when you're protected, so a bodyguard claim is a common role to claim as a wolf & is definitely not a clear
 
samac said:
if I was told on thread I was going to be blocked then I could see not killing for this exact discussion to happen on thread.
But even then probably only in a situation where I needed one misyeet to win otherwise it’d just dragging out the inevitable to the next night and that sounds like less fun than being blocked and just open wolfing for a day.
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Depends on how much you want village to suffer for it tbh

For me it would be funnier to get as many as misyeets as possible before the inevitable open wolfing. But I'm admittedly a bit of a sadistic wolf.
 
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