Program Specific Questions

[Maui]

If one wants to get into an Endo or Heme-Onc fellowship and wants to have some clinical research done...? The facilities are allegedly in the top 5 in the US, and it's near Boston, and it is affiliated with UMass...anyone really wanting to train there? Thanks for the input. (This post is not for the highfallutin people going to UCLA, Stanford, and all the top tier places)

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[mohit98]

I have been scratching my head for long. I interviewed at both Emory and UAB for internal medicine, still unable to decide how to rank them. please suggest your views...

 

[tigersMD]

I have been scratching my head for long. I interviewed at both Emory and UAB for internal medicine, still unable to decide how to rank them. please suggest your views...

I think they are both solid programs. It depends on what type of city you want to live in. Atlanta obviously has more going on, especially for the single crowd. Birmingham is more affordable, has less traffic, and is great for raising a family or for young married folks. Emory is really strong in cards, but I think UAB is stronger overall, especially if you are interested in doing research because UAB's medicine dept consistently ranks top 10 in NIH funding. But I'd imagine you couldn't go wrong at either place.

 

[DaBigDawg]

The following post is very biased. I am a UAB medical student and I have loved my time at UAB. This post is not intended as a knock on any other program.

Emory is a great program... but UAB is MUCH stronger. In fact, other than Duke, I'd say UAB is the strongest program in the southeast (in some fields, its much stronger than Duke)... probably top 10-15 in the nation. I've interviewed at several places all over the country and I have found maybe 3-4 programs that I've liked better.

Pro's: Great variety of patients, fantastic attendings (no privates, which I think is huge), very collegial atmosphere, beautiful facilities, and a very nice affordable town.

Con's: Birmingham might be too small for some people. Program forces you to hit the groung running... very little hand holding (I view it as a plus but it could be a negative to some). County hospital has horrible nurses (they are working on it).

The UAB cardiology department is comparable to Emory's. UAB has sent residents for cardiology fellowships to MGH and Hopkins over the last 4 years. A lot of people do stay at UAB for cardiology. Top 10 cardiology program.

Please message me if you want more detailed answers.

 

[ifearlazyeyes]

The following post is very biased. I am a UAB medical student and I have loved my time at UAB. This post is not intended as a knock on any other program.

Emory is a great program... but UAB is MUCH stronger. In fact, other than Duke, I'd say UAB is the strongest program in the southeast (in some fields, its much stronger than Duke)... probably top 10-15 in the nation. I've interviewed at several places all over the country and I have found maybe 3-4 programs that I've liked better.

Pro's: Great variety of patients, fantastic attendings (no privates, which I think is huge), very collegial atmosphere, beautiful facilities, and a very nice affordable town.

Con's: Birmingham might be too small for some people. Program forces you to hit the groung running... very little hand holding (I view it as a plus but it could be a negative to some). County hospital has horrible nurses (they are working on it).

The UAB cardiology department is comparable to Emory's. UAB has sent residents for cardiology fellowships to MGH and Hopkins over the last 4 years. A lot of people do stay at UAB for cardiology. Top 10 cardiology program.

Please message me if you want more detailed answers.

Could you perhaps elaborate on why you feel UAB is so much stronger for internal medicine than Emory? Although I had heard some say this, after interviewing at both places, I don't quite see it. Emory seems to draw a more diverse group of residents from by and larger better medical schools although admittedly the difference is not night and day. Emory offers perhaps the best diversity of training environments of any place in the the country with university, VA, county, and private hospitals. And looking at the fellowship placement list of both places, one does not seem more impressive than the other. As far as clinical training and research opportunities go, they both seem to be excellent. So I wonder why Emory is perceived as having a weaker IM department? Are you basing this on word of mouth or personal experience or what?

 

[Doctor&Geek]

While you list that the residents come from "better and larger medical schools" (implying that the residents are better) or that the residents are "more diverse" (implying some benefit to education), one should be also concerned with the quality of teaching and organization of the residency program; who the program attracts arguably is less important than those critical aspects.

Secondarily if you're interested in research, the UAB's department of medicine has more than double NIH funding than Emory. Outside of cards and especially in Pulm, Hem/Onc, Renal, and Rheum, UAB probably has a better faculty reputation.

I'll let DaBigDawg finish off making the comparison.

 

[socal4life]

Within the Southeast, there is a gap between Duke and UAB and then between UAB and the other programs (the next tier being Emory and Vanderbilt). After that, the 4th tier includes a lot of programs.

Duke has a national reputation and is clearly ranked ahead of UAB (via USNEWS specialty rankings) in almost every category. I've heard their fellowship match is on par with MGH, Brigham, UCSF, etc. They match 18-20 in cards annually. The primary con of Duke are that it is in Durham, NC so it attracts more married/strong relationship folks into its residency than the singles scene.

UAB also has a national reputation that is extremely strong in Cards and ID. It is definitely a notch below Duke on the national scene and fails to attract some candidates because of its location in Alabama. That being said, its training is very good and one cannot go wrong here.

 

[carpe diem]

Within the Southeast, there is a gap between Duke and UAB and then between UAB and the other programs (the next tier being Emory and Vanderbilt). After that, the 4th tier includes a lot of programs.

Duke has a national reputation and is clearly ranked ahead of UAB (via USNEWS specialty rankings) in almost every category. I've heard their fellowship match is on par with MGH, Brigham, UCSF, etc. They match 18-20 in cards annually. The primary con of Duke are that it is in Durham, NC so it attracts more married/strong relationship folks into its residency than the singles scene.

UAB also has a national reputation that is extremely strong in Cards and ID. It is definitely a notch below Duke on the national scene and fails to attract some candidates because of its location in Alabama. That being said, its training is very good and one cannot go wrong here.

In a week or so I will have interviewed Med-Peds at 16 places around the country ( from Philly to the West Coast and many in between). Within the medical community (academicians and PD's) I would say UAB is more well known and has a better reputation than Emory based on what I have heard and observed on the interview trail. This is somewhat contrary to what is usually touted on this board, i.e. that UAB's reputation is only regional.

 

[mohit98]

gosh! u guys ... UAB has got better ranks in NIH funding.. but thats basic research... UAB internal medicine ranking on usnews is better than Emory.. but that is overall... UAB cardiology fellowship ranked 6th in nation as compared to Emory's 11th.. but that again Emory is traditionally knows for cards....UAB grads only 60-70% go into fellowship but only continue at UAB... Emory 87% go into fellowship.. Emory known harvard of south.. UAB has got all hospitals clubbed together.. Emory has five different hospitals spread all over the trafiica snarly Atlanta city which can really make your day hectic if you shuffling around...all these facts just mess up the things ...

 

[Doctor&Geek]

gosh! u guys ... UAB has got better ranks in NIH funding.. but thats basic research... UAB internal medicine ranking on usnews is better than Emory.. but that is overall... UAB cardiology fellowship ranked 6th in nation as compared to Emory's 11th.. but that again Emory is traditionally knows for cards....UAB grads only 60-70% go into fellowship but only continue at UAB... Emory 87% go into fellowship.. Emory known harvard of south.. UAB has got all hospitals clubbed together.. Emory has five different hospitals spread all over the trafiica snarly Atlanta city which can really make your day hectic if you shuffling around...all these facts just mess up the things ...

Stream of consciousness!

 

[IntMed]

Do you happen to have the recent UAB fellowship match list? Does everyone stay there - just wondering why that might be... Thanks

gosh! u guys ... UAB has got better ranks in NIH funding.. but thats basic research... UAB internal medicine ranking on usnews is better than Emory.. but that is overall... UAB cardiology fellowship ranked 6th in nation as compared to Emory's 11th.. but that again Emory is traditionally knows for cards....UAB grads only 60-70% go into fellowship but only continue at UAB... Emory 87% go into fellowship.. Emory known harvard of south.. UAB has got all hospitals clubbed together.. Emory has five different hospitals spread all over the trafiica snarly Atlanta city which can really make your day hectic if you shuffling around...all these facts just mess up the things ...

 

[tigersMD]

Do you happen to have the recent UAB fellowship match list? Does everyone stay there - just wondering why that might be... Thanks

I have a list from the last 15 years they gave out. For GI and Cards, more than 50% leave for fellowships, and they typically go to very good places, usually in the SE but also elsewhere (one of last yr's chiefs went to Hopkins for Cards). For pulm/cc and heme/onc, it seems that more than 50% stay, but that is probably b/c these programs are very strong in research and clinical training. It seems that UAB grads are very competitive in general for fellowships.

 

[tum]

if we're talking about the 'harvard of the south' it would be duke not emory. both places about 1/2 stay and 1/2 leave for fellowship. btw if i spawned one more 'harvard of the ____' discussions, please lord forgive me for i have sinned.

duke >> uab > emory = vanderbilt >>> UF

gosh! u guys ... UAB has got better ranks in NIH funding.. but thats basic research... UAB internal medicine ranking on usnews is better than Emory.. but that is overall... UAB cardiology fellowship ranked 6th in nation as compared to Emory's 11th.. but that again Emory is traditionally knows for cards....UAB grads only 60-70% go into fellowship but only continue at UAB... Emory 87% go into fellowship.. Emory known harvard of south.. UAB has got all hospitals clubbed together.. Emory has five different hospitals spread all over the trafiica snarly Atlanta city which can really make your day hectic if you shuffling around...all these facts just mess up the things ...

 

[KayLes]

I'm also biased, and while I won't compare it to Emory for you, I will just tell you what I have seen. The attendings are exceptional, and the powers that be are very serious about making sure that the attendings are dedicated to teaching. For example, on the Tinsley Harrison service (which is the gen med service at University Hospital and one of the busiest/most intense services) the attendings have to be invited to attend on that service, i.e, if past evaluations by residents/students show that you aren't taking the time to teach, you won't be invited. The attendings are also very respectful toward the residents and students, which is important.

Also, on my interviews I always pay attention to the residents in morning report, because these are the people that I will learn from, right? I don't know what schools all of the residents came from, but I know that the UAB residents have a knowledge base that is really impressive. I've been to some other programs where I was NOT impressed with the residents in morning report (i.e, please don't let me sit on the sidelines knowing the answer to a question that the 3rd year resident needs repeated clues to answer... ) Also, the residents seem to be genuinely happy, which is also important. Sometimes you can't really tell on an interview day, but I've been with these guys on call and after long days and they are working hard, but they are happy, which for me is huge.
All of the hospitals are either connected or within 2 blocks of each other, and you get the variety of working at university hospital, the county hospital, the VA and while you won't rotate at a private hospital, you do have the option to have your clinic at St. Vincents, which is a private hospital that is about 5 min away. And you've heard all about rankings and NIH funding, etc.

Birmingham--low cost of living, there are concerts/arts/festivals, etc, but obviously not as much going on as Atlanta (however Atlanta is only 2 hours away, so on your golden weekend you can shoot over there.)

You're in a pretty sweet position though, because they are both good programs, and you'll be well trained either way.

 

[KayLes]

Oh and call! I believe it's q4 on most wards, but the night float system allows for interns to be q8 (alternate short and long call with the help of the intern night float) and upper level residents only stay overnight if call falls on a friday or saturday. Q5 in the MICU and q5 on GI service. The program seems to work really hard to adhere to the 80-hour work week. Not sure how that compares to Emory.

 

[Boris Badenov]

So I wonder why Emory is perceived as having a weaker IM department?

It's not. Some of the comparisons in this thread are outrageous.

In the South, Duke is far and away the #1 in IM.

For #2, Emory, UAB, Vandy, and UNC are all essentially equal in caliber.

To the OP, reputation aside, the two programs are very different; it shouldn't be difficult to make a decision based on which program felt like a better fit for you.

 

[VCMM414]

It's not. Some of the comparisons in this thread are outrageous.

In the South, Duke is far and away the #1 in IM.

For #2, Emory, UAB, Vandy, and UNC are all essentially equal in caliber.

To the OP, reputation aside, the two programs are very different; it shouldn't be difficult to make a decision based on which program felt like a better fit for you.

Definitely agree that Duke is by far the most prestigious IM program in the south.

IMO, as a whole, UAB has the most impressive faculty and research of the next tier (ie. Emory, UAB, Vandy, UNC, UVA). However, as far as fellowship matches go I was more impressed with Emory and Vanderbilt. UVa's list is good also. UAB's list was a bit underwhelming, though not poor by any means. In addition, UAB (and UNC to a lesser extent) definitely draws from a more regional crowd for its residents; Vandy, UVA, and Emory residents are from a greater variety of locations/schools.

 

[jammin06]

Hey guys,

i know this isn't specifically about comparing UAB to a bunch of other programs around the country, but where does it stack up against some of the Texas IM programs? Particularly Baylor, UT-Southwestern and UT-Houston. I know i have a lot of training left, but I've been leaning towards Cards for a long time, so I would like to someday end up at Texas Heart Institute.

p.s. i'm a first year at uab and my significant other will be a first year at Baylor in the fall.

 

[VCMM414]

Hey guys,

i know this isn't specifically about comparing UAB to a bunch of other programs around the country, but where does it stack up against some of the Texas IM programs? Particularly Baylor, UT-Southwestern and UT-Houston. I know i have a lot of training left, but I've been leaning towards Cards for a long time, so I would like to someday end up at Texas Heart Institute.

p.s. i'm a first year at uab and my significant other will be a first year at Baylor in the fall.

UTSW is without a doubt the most prestigious of the group, and it also offers the most rigorous clinical training on par with Hopkins, Duke. This type of training definitely leads to very capable clinicians, but I do not think it is necessarily the only path to become a good clinician. UTSW's fellowship match is impressive, probably almost at the level of Duke/Stanford/Penn.

Overall, Baylor and UAB are pretty similar; whereas UAB has better research resources, Baylor has slightly better residents. Training at UAB and Baylor are also similar (university, county, VA); at both places you'll become a very good clinician.

To end up at Texas Heart, your best bets would likely be Baylor or UTSW. Don't neglect UAB's own cardiology program though.

 

[tibor75]

Why do you want to end up at Texas Heart?

 

[jammin06]

During my four years at Rice, I was extremely impressed by the magnitude of the Texas Medical Center, and THI. I know UAB has a phenomenal cardiology program, but the decision is also in part due to a dialogue with my SO who wants to stay at Baylor to collaborate with their International Health program. We want to get married at some point, and the possibility of doing it in 4 years rather than 6 (if i stayed in IM at UAB and she came here for her residency), is an added obstacle to the situation. Long distance really sucks.

I suppose it'll just come down to the match to determine where we end up. I am just trying to get a rough idea of how I would rank them, if/when the time comes. Can anyone shed some light on what a competitive applicant to any of the three programs described would be like?

 

[georgia9999]

Just wondering what people thought about UAB. I was really impressed with my visit there. I thought it was the best Southeastern school I interviewed at, and I interviewed at almost all of them.

 

[C-GAR]

Just wondering what people thought about UAB. I was really impressed with my visit there. I thought it was the best Southeastern school I interviewed at, and I interviewed at almost all of them.

I agree, UAB was top notch. Am debating whether to rank UAB or Vandy#1

 

[jammin06]

bump

 

[firstdoc101]

I too liked UAB > Emory.

The main reason being that at UAB medicine is thought of as the most important division of the hospital and its residents/attendings are thought of as the rockstars of the hospital (if there is such a thing)... Also, they seemed dedicated to making you into a well rounded physician and the class size and city are small enough that one could really get to know everyone and take minutes instead of an hour to get home due to traffic. Only bad thing I found was the fact you have to read both x ray and CTs on lightboxes still...

 

[dragonfly99]

Duke definitely has the greatest prestige of the southeastern programs.
After that, I would put Vandy, Emory and UAB in no particular order. I would say that Vandy and UAB likely have more basic science research (and basic science research dollars) than Emory, but I wouldn't 100% swear to it. UAB and Vandy are both in the top 10 or 15 for NIH research dollars...don't know where Emory stands on that. Historically, Emory has the best known cardiology division among Vanderbilt and UAB, but in recent years both UAB and Vandy have become comparable (i.e. lots of cards patients, cards research, etc.). Keep in mind that reputations linger, so if you want to match some place like Harvard for cards fellowship (good luck!) then Duke would be the best place in the Southeast, with Emory being 2nd IMHO. That doesn't necessarily say anything about the education there - it just means that having well connected attendings and a well known cardiovascular division helps IM resident match well for fellowship.

Out of Vandy/Emory/UAB, I would say just pick the one that is the best fit for you and the city where you want to live, as that may affect your performance the most. You can't go wrong with any of the three. Emory may get a little crazy with driving all over town, etc. but if you are single or prefer larger cities you may prefer it. Vandy probably has more of a mix of singles + marrieds than UAB, but I'm just guessing on that. For cost of living Emory > Nashville/Vandy > UAB/Birmingham, I would assume.

 

[iNcorruptible]

It's good to know that there are a lot of people facing that dilemma!
Thank you all for the interesting opinions.
I just interviewed at UAB and I have my Emory interview tomorrow.

I have to admit I really had a good feel about UAB in all its aspect, with the downside of being in Birmingham.

We'll see about Emory.

 

[digoybugoy]

Is UTSW fellowship match list really that good? Is this list outdated then?

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept26481/files/523535.html

 

[obiwan]

Is UTSW fellowship match list really that good? Is this list outdated then?

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept26481/files/523535.html

i'm pretty sure its the most up to date one... utsw is a top notch program on the national level so its not surprising that it has a solid fellowship match list

 

[Scaredshizzles]

i'm pretty sure its the most up to date one... utsw is a top notch program on the national level so its not surprising that it has a solid fellowship match list

I think digoy was implying that it wasn't very strong, even though it is. I've seen less impressive lists amongst the supposedly more elite programs.

 

[Clemson Doc]

Which factors are most important to you? Do you want a large city (Atlanta) or a mid-size city (Birmingham)? Do you mind contending with bad traffic to drive between the handful of hospitals where you will be working (Atlanta)? Does having access to big city amenities (shopping, large airport, etc.) matter to you? Will you be any safer in Birmingham than in Atlanta? Do you want to rent or buy a home? Stuff like this should matter a lot, because these all contribute to quality of life. And what's a high quality of life to you will be different from what others consider to be a high quality of life.

As far as the programs themselves go, I think they are both good programs that will train you well. Nobody is going to hold it against you for training at Emory or UAB - both are well respected. I think Emory has a higher prestige factor, especially among the general public and perhaps in academic circles as well. But UAB is obviously doing something right given their research funding, etc.

I have heard that UAB has q4 overnight call 9-10 months out of the intern year. A friend of mine who interviewed there said that they kept stressing "we're not a malignant program." Why would they keep saying that if it weren't a concern - either currently or in the recent past? If you want a place that works you that hard, then you'd probably like it. But if you plan on having any sort of a life outside of the hospital, then you might want to think again. I am not familiar with Emory's schedule, and perhaps it is similar. But definitely look into the specifics of both, because your happiness is likely to depend heavily on the type of environment you want.

Good luck!

 

[gutonc]

As far as the programs themselves go, I think they are both good programs that will train you well. Nobody is going to hold it against you for training at Emory or UAB - both are well respected. I think Emory has a higher prestige factor, especially among the general public and perhaps in academic circles as well. But UAB is obviously doing something right given their research funding, etc.

FWIW, out here in the opposite corner of the country, more people talk about and respect UAB than Emory, especially in the research setting.

The only person I've ever heard talk about Emory out here is an annoying ED attending who trained there and claims it's the greatest program in the world and talks crap about his own trainees because they don't go to Emory.

Training-wise though, you can't go wrong with either place.

 

[BlazerMed]

I have heard that UAB has q4 overnight call 9-10 months out of the intern year. A friend of mine who interviewed there said that they kept stressing "we're not a malignant program." Why would they keep saying that if it weren't a concern - either currently or in the recent past? If you want a place that works you that hard, then you'd probably like it. But if you plan on having any sort of a life outside of the hospital, then you might want to think again. I am not familiar with Emory's schedule, and perhaps it is similar. But definitely look into the specifics of both, because your happiness is likely to depend heavily on the type of environment you want.

Good luck!

MICU is q5 overnight, Gen Med Ward months (at all 3 hospitals) are q4 admitting but q8 overnight, subspecialty ward months are q4 overnight.

Edit: There is the occasional q4 on the Gen Med months due to no nightfloat on Fri/Sat nights. The above schedule is for interns. For upper-levels you're only overnight in the ICU (q4 at the VA, still q5 at University) and Fri/Sat nights on other ward months.

 

[stankem]

Atlanta is an extremely underrated city, only negatives I see are mediocre public transport and no large body of water.

 

[ResidentMD]

FWIW, out here in the opposite corner of the country, more people talk about and respect UAB than Emory, especially in the research setting.

The only person I've ever heard talk about Emory out here is an annoying ED attending who trained there and claims it's the greatest program in the world and talks crap about his own trainees because they don't go to Emory.

Training-wise though, you can't go wrong with either place.

I think a lot also has to do with the program leadership. The UAB PD has been around for long and is EXTREMELY well-respected. He is clinically very strong, and on my interview day (as well as talking to other residents), I got a feeling he wanted to make really train his residents well - he seemed to be very involved in the program, right from the recruiting process onwards. I have not heard similar things about the Emory leadership (though I didnt visit the program, this is just hearsay - from the forum and a few other residents, or med students I met on my trail).

On the research front, I think people rave about Emory Cards a lot. But besides that, I have heard UAB to be very strong. The new Chair is a was the ex-PD of Colorado PCCM (the most coveted PCCM fellowship program in the country), and he is doing some fantabulous research. He is focused on bench/translational research. So I would agree that I have heard a lot more about UAB's research. Lastly, it is one of the top transplant centers in the country, possibly even the top for renal transplant (obesity in Birmingham--> metabolic syndrome --> diabetes --> diabetic nephropathy ). I think the IM program itself is one of the few in the country that clearly focuses on what IM training is all about - becoming clinically strong and competent.

I think it would be more about whether you could stand living in Birmingham or not. From what I have heard, for up to 2 years, it can be hell (especially if you are single), but after those 2 years, many people never want to leave.

The only other drawback I see at UAB is because of the ward months in PGY1, you cant get enough subspecialty electives, etc to get as many letters and research experience in order to be ready by mid-PGY2 for fellowship apps; but then again I may be wrong.

 

[USGrad2010]

I interviewed at St. Vincent Hospital in January 2010 and loved the place, the hospital is beautiful- it has a Dunkin Donuts,Pizza Place, Fresh Deli, and huge Cafe and a Waterfall and plants!!! The hospital is very clean and new, very warm. I felt the faculty was enthusiastic about teaching and the residents were all very happy-the program director is a sweet lady, she trained there and seems to be a very successful person, I googled her and she's won alot of humanitarian awards. I spoke to a group of residents after their conference and they all said they love the place, the teaching and the faculty are great and they have alot of support- everyone seemed genuine and happy to be there . I spoke to a few interns, and then I toured the hospital with one intern who had just matched in Ophthalmology- they seem to match at some top places, and they told me they have board review and a high board pass rate, this is important but since I am a preliminary, its more important for the ones that plan to do fellowships. A few residents told me they love the schedule, plenty of electives and teaching. There's alot of diversity in the residents which is nice. This will be my first choice in the match. My creds are high passes on both steps on first attempt for both. I have my choice of places but I think I might love it at St. Vincent Hospital. I hope I match!

 

[gutonc]

7+ Year Bump!

Solid.

 

[EPADHA]

I would agree that on the research front UAB's department of medicine is a lot more respected. I had interviewed at both Emory and UAB for cardiology last year, and would say that US news rankings aside, both cardiology divisions are comparable in terms of their 'academic merit'. UAB is clearly the hub of cardiac imaging, obesity/metabolic syndrome research, bench EP research and ethnic disparities research in the south.

 

[AAOx2]

OK- so I'm going abroad in a few days and am making my rank list now.

There have been a good number of you who I've seen at 3,4, even 5 of the same interviews, so I thought this would be a good last opportunity for feedback.

I think I am going to rank Stanford #1. Why? Really happy residents, chill atmosphere compared to east coast and ucsf, unparalleled opportunities for innovation (eg BIO-X center), great weather, very involved and personable PD's setting the tone, great global health exposure, and I have close family nearby.

Reasons which make me hesitate before pulling the trigger are that it is much further away from my immediate family than BWH, MGH, and Hopkins, which I'll probably rank 2-4 in that order. Being single, I'm not a huge fan of Stanford not being located right in a city (though I like Palo Alto.) And finally, and this one might just be meaningless east coast provencial paranoia on my part... but it seems like they have virtually nobody go to the east coast for fellowship (though they send tons to Stanford, UCSF, UCLA and UW).

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter, so long as they come in by Sunday

 

[EaglesPA]

OK- so I'm going abroad in a few days and am making my rank list now.

There have been a good number of you who I've seen at 3,4, even 5 of the same interviews, so I thought this would be a good last opportunity for feedback.

I think I am going to rank Stanford #1. Why? Really happy residents, chill atmosphere compared to east coast and ucsf, unparalleled opportunities for innovation (eg BIO-X center), great weather, very involved and personable PD's setting the tone, great global health exposure, and I have close family nearby.

Reasons which make me hesitate before pulling the trigger are that it is much further away from my immediate family than BWH, MGH, and Hopkins, which I'll probably rank 2-4 in that order. Being single, I'm not a huge fan of Stanford not being located right in a city (though I like Palo Alto.) And finally, and this one might just be meaningless east coast provencial paranoia on my part... but it seems like they have virtually nobody go to the east coast for fellowship (though they send tons to Stanford, UCSF, UCLA and UW).

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter, so long as they come in by Sunday

I would really think about it some more. I don't know how close you are to your family but if all your family are on the east coast I would really want a VERY compelling reason to move out to the West Coast to Stanford over Hopkins, MGH or BWH.
One thing to note is no matter how chill residents appear, intern year sucks wherever you go.

 

[Scaredshizzles]

OK- so I'm going abroad in a few days and am making my rank list now.

There have been a good number of you who I've seen at 3,4, even 5 of the same interviews, so I thought this would be a good last opportunity for feedback.

I think I am going to rank Stanford #1. Why? Really happy residents, chill atmosphere compared to east coast and ucsf, unparalleled opportunities for innovation (eg BIO-X center), great weather, very involved and personable PD's setting the tone, great global health exposure, and I have close family nearby.

Reasons which make me hesitate before pulling the trigger are that it is much further away from my immediate family than BWH, MGH, and Hopkins, which I'll probably rank 2-4 in that order. Being single, I'm not a huge fan of Stanford not being located right in a city (though I like Palo Alto.) And finally, and this one might just be meaningless east coast provencial paranoia on my part... but it seems like they have virtually nobody go to the east coast for fellowship (though they send tons to Stanford, UCSF, UCLA and UW).

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter, so long as they come in by Sunday

Stanford is a good program, but it certainly is not UCSF, MGH, Brigham, Hopkins, Duke, Columbia, or Penn. Stanford's match list is pretty unimpressive, and I doubt it has to do with everyone wanting to stay there, because UCSF sends a lot of people out. In fact you mention Stanford matches a lot to UCSF, but they actually only match 1 or 2 per year to UCSF, usually in GI...Which is surprising considering they are the closest big program to UCSF.

Even the people who choose to stay at Stanford for fellowships, many wind up needing to do a chief year first, do a hospitalist gig for a year, or go into the clinician-scientist track. (in fact since close to 1/4 or 1/3 of residents go into that track there, a lot of the in house slots get earmarked to those people.) If you want to be a clinician scientist and you really loved the area, then I would consider it. But if you want to be a great clinician, I would suck it up and go to a more rigorous training program-->and you could choose one on the east coast where at least your family can support you through the rough patches. Just my take, but I would not confuse the glorious Stanford University undergraduate (and med school) name with the strength of the program.

 

[indiamacbean]

seems like you have decided already. I would throw out there that if you haven't decided and cardiology is in your future AND you want to be at Harvard for fellowship I might reconsider. Simply put it is harder to get back to the east coast and especially BWH/MGH for fellowship than if you go there for residency.

 

[bbs09]

Stanford is a good program, but it certainly is not UCSF, MGH, Brigham, Hopkins, Duke, Columbia, or Penn. Stanford's match list is pretty unimpressive, and I doubt it has to do with everyone wanting to stay there, because UCSF sends a lot of people out. In fact you mention Stanford matches a lot to UCSF, but they actually only match 1 or 2 per year to UCSF, usually in GI...Which is surprising considering they are the closest big program to UCSF.

Even the people who choose to stay at Stanford for fellowships, many wind up needing to do a chief year first, do a hospitalist gig for a year, or go into the clinician-scientist track. (in fact since close to 1/4 or 1/3 of residents go into that track there, a lot of the in house slots get earmarked to those people.) If you want to be a clinician scientist and you really loved the area, then I would consider it. But if you want to be a great clinician, I would suck it up and go to a more rigorous training program-->and you could choose one on the east coast where at least your family can support you through the rough patches. Just my take, but I would not confuse the glorious Stanford University undergraduate (and med school) name with the strength of the program.

I believe they have someone going to cards at UCSF, plus lots of cards matches elsewhere, too (Duke, UT Southwestern, etc). The residents were telling me they wanted to stay because they had so much support there, and most of them had already started their research work during residency (I believe there's a lot of time and support for that), so they already had all their connections there.

 

[futureres]

OK- so I'm going abroad in a few days and am making my rank list now.

There have been a good number of you who I've seen at 3,4, even 5 of the same interviews, so I thought this would be a good last opportunity for feedback.

I think I am going to rank Stanford #1. Why? Really happy residents, chill atmosphere compared to east coast and ucsf, unparalleled opportunities for innovation (eg BIO-X center), great weather, very involved and personable PD's setting the tone, great global health exposure, and I have close family nearby.

Reasons which make me hesitate before pulling the trigger are that it is much further away from my immediate family than BWH, MGH, and Hopkins, which I'll probably rank 2-4 in that order. Being single, I'm not a huge fan of Stanford not being located right in a city (though I like Palo Alto.) And finally, and this one might just be meaningless east coast provencial paranoia on my part... but it seems like they have virtually nobody go to the east coast for fellowship (though they send tons to Stanford, UCSF, UCLA and UW).

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter, so long as they come in by Sunday

Yeah, I'd have to agree with some of the comments on here. I know you don't want to kill yourself during residency, but yes, internship sucks everywhere. Pursuing a "chill atmosphere" over some the best programs in the country when you actually have them as options, and they are actually closer to family (if that's important to you)...it's your decision but most advisors would argue against it. However, at least you'll have some family support in Cali. Was there something about the East Coast programs that made you completely averse to going there? Horrible interviews? Bad fit? I loved UCSF, UW, Brigham, Penn, MGH, Hopkins>>>>>Stanford, personally. I'm not a West Coast person but...unless you know now that you want to stay on the West Coast for fellowship, you would potentially be limiting your options to come back to the East Coast, esp at the same programs that you are ranking lower. But matching in a place that is a bad fit-you won't perform well, become malignant to your co-residents, and screw yourself for fellowship too. The Brigham may be a good #1 or #2 next to Stanford on the list. But the Brigham is by no means "chill", just a more balanced program than MGH or Hopkins.

 

[indiamacbean]

trust me on this. if you want to go to BWH/MGH for cards fellowship and you have the opportunity to go there for residency take it. good luck getting into BWH from the west coast.

 

[IMpassion]

If you wish to remain at MGH or BWH for fellowship, best bet is to train there. Also don't underestimate importance of family. Residency is busy and stressful. If you are on west coast you'll only be able to make it home east a couple times each year. There are many east coasters who get quite homesick in California. They burn out faster.

If you are ok with the above, Stanford is an outstanding program. By "chill" I believe you mean atmosphere and vibe, not training itself. You will work very hard at Stanford. But in return get great training. It is easily in the same tier as Duke, Penn, Columbia, etc. Stanford also has some of the happiest and best supportive residents. There's really an emphasis there on teaching and teaching residents how to be effective teachers. Stanford has a great fellowship match list. It's true, most residents want to stay at Stanford because they love the environment. The best way to confirm this is to speak with current senior residents. You should also ask fellowship PDs. Ask then what they think of Stanford residents. Don't listen to anyone without any direct experience.

I don't think Stanford residency tries to live off the Stanford name. But in reality you can't fully separate the two. Stanford is one of the world's leading universities. This continually attracts some of the best and brightest faculty, housestaff, and med students. Many people want to be part of the intellectual community at Stanford. This has and will continue to cement Stanford as one of the world's leading medical centers and research powerhouses.

 

[Scaredshizzles]

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