The WWatering Hole Bar Grand Opening - Game Thread.

[Crayola227]

unlynch tartesos

lynch crayola

So Many Feels
-Cray: For extreme diarrhea of the mouth. She manufactured weak reasoning on her snowy vote and piled onto the bad logic of the AM vote. Crazy circular logic that hurts my brain. Very defensive about being told her posts and logic seem wolfy and threw out a "I'm not a wolf, maybe YOU'RE THE WOLF" defense, which always screams wolf to me. In part of her crazy logic used the phrase "If I was you villagers" - maybe just rhetorical flourish, but seems like the type of Freudian slip a wolf would make.

Feels
-PBC: manufactured some weak reasoning for an AM lynch to make her logic seem sounder than it was in reality, and then got a little defensive and backpedaled when someone called her out on it.
-Genny: very defensive about people voting for her and thinking that people are after her just because she was a winning wolf from last game.

Minor Feels
-Kam, STL, Raf, Tartesos: I'm still not a big fan of people who haven't been on at all since the game started, and none of these players have (unless I missed a post somewhere when making my notes?). Non participation seems like an easy excuse to skate through undetected for a few days. Also as a way to not give out too much info on yourself, lest you slip up.
-LoTF: A little defensive on people needling her about participating
-Finn: only because I'm salty about the attempted manacide and my emotions are getting the better of me

No Feels:
-LIS: He's posted earlier and more consistently than last game, but his game play seems normal. Not sure I'd be able to tell if he was a wolf though.
-Finn: actually where she belongs. Still salty though.
-Everybody else who's posted so far

Your vote for me makes total sense, and wasn't particularly rude towards me. Thanks.

I've said before (not that that matters, let me explain *my* logic as you have here), I try to put a vote in every single cycle IRL doesn't stop me from, just as a principle of gameplay. I also try really hard to provide with it at least a sentence of why, because I think votes with *nothing* to go with it, are lame. So I don't think it's surprising D1 vote "logic" can be weak. Especially from me, I guess, the person with the crappiest logic it would seem.

IMHO I did not pile onto the AM vote, perhaps it seemed that way. One, I voted Snowy instead. Two, I was trying to make the point that if the majority of players can't read her being village or wolf at all, then where does that leave us when faced with the decision to lynch her or not? Is this really that illogical and idiotic of a question to ask? I think part of my point is that I'm not sure it's a great early lynch to just lynch the hard to read people as a defensive principle. Same thing with just lynching all the quiet people, which is something that comes up. Or lynching all the annoying people (like me).

The rest of what you find fault with in me, I could address, but the points are well taken as far as what you have to say about my gameplay.

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[Ceke2002]

Yes, I am positive.

But apparently you aren't?

Regarding Blitzen? No, I'm not positive they're village. And now that you mention it I find your possible defense of them to be somewhat troubling also, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt at the moment seeing as I've noted your play style when village does have a tendency to be better at flushing out potential wolves. Blitzen's words just don't sound like they're coming from Blitzen alone, there's something that's coming across as a bit too 'schooled' about them.

 

[LetItSnow]

Regarding Blitzen? No, I'm not positive they're village. And now that you mention it I find your possible defense of them to be somewhat troubling also, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt at the moment seeing as I've noted your play style when village does have a tendency to be better at flushing out potential wolves. Blitzen's words just don't sound like they're coming from Blitzen alone, there's something that's coming across as a bit too 'schooled' about them.

No, about you being village.

I have no issue with your read on blitzen if you are village just because it is different than mine. Nobody's reads are perfect, so either of us could be wrong. But your vhangeing vote and reason seemed sketchy.

 

[Animal Midwife]

D1 We Should Buy A Bar Unofficial Lynch Tally

Blitzen (2) - Cake, STL
STL (1) - LOtF
Cyndia (1) - Pippy
Pippy (1) - Genny
LIS () -
Genny (4) - AM, WZ, LIS, finn
Cake () -
Snowy (1) - Crayola
Tartar Sauce () -
PBC (5) - Cyndia, Allie, 3m, Jil, Ski
AM () -
3M () -
Crayola (2) - Raf, blitzen
LOtF (1) - DVMD
Dubz (3) - Snowy, BBC, PBC
Finn (2) - Kam, Rabbott

23/24 Voting
PBC is in the lead.



Lynch ends in: 1.5 hours @ 2200 EST

 

[Crayola227]

I honestly just don't have that many novel thoughts at the moment... I included thoughts on those other people mostly so there wouldn't be a "but why not X player" instead questions, which I got asked last game when I lynched somebody but didn't include reasons as to why not others.

This is only my second game, and my first one was a utter s***show. I managed, in short order to: prevent the lynch of a wolf on D1, throw suspicion on myself by starting some villager on villager verbal violence, and pushing to lynch innocent villagers two nights in a row resulting in our loss. I'm suffering from serious self-doubt about how good I am at reading people, so I'm definitely susceptible to the influence of more experienced players arguments.

My first game was very much like this. You will get better, I promise. Trust your gut was the advice I was given and I think it's sound

 

[Crayola227]

Definitely don't like LotF's STL vote. Finn and Pippy's votes are .. meh, I don't feel it, but they seem legit. BBC and Snow's votes seem weird.

I said Snowy's vote seemed weird as well when I voted them. Perhaps my logic was crap as has been said, but I just thought I would say so.

 

[Crayola227]

I voted PBC purely to create a fun early tie knowing things would probably drastically change before the end of the lynch. No good other reason except maybe some residual bitterness from last game. However, I see myself moving my vote to someone who hasn't checked by the time I sign off tonight since I won't be around for the end of the lynch most likely. If they can't grace us with their presence after almost 48 hours of game play, what gives?

I might be remembering wrong, but was it you last game that admonished me that ties are generally bad for village when I made an offhand comment that I thought they were fun sometimes?

I get that you're saying you expect the tie to break, but I gotta say this comment even if it's not contradicting yourself from before, has my eyebrow raised.

 

[britzen]

Blitzen's words just don't sound like they're coming from Blitzen alone, there's something that's coming across as a bit too 'schooled' about them.

Too "schooled" like someone, who, I don't know has several degrees in the social sciences, and has written hundreds and hundreds of pages worth of papers that require logic, arguments, and deductive reasoning? Just because I'm a noob, doesn't mean I'm dumb.

Per raf, I'm not playing well because my logic is too derivative. Per you, I'm playing too well because my logic is too polished... Not sure what to do about either, so I'll just continue on.

 

[Ceke2002]

No, about you being village.

I have no issue with your read on blitzen if you are village just because it is different than mine. Nobody's reads are perfect, so either of us could be wrong. But your vhangeing vote and reason seemed sketchy.

Blitzen posts this:

This is only my second game, and my first one was a utter s***show. I managed, in short order to: prevent the lynch of a wolf on D1, throw suspicion on myself by starting some villager on villager verbal violence, and pushing to lynch innocent villagers two nights in a row resulting in our loss. I'm suffering from serious self-doubt about how good I am at reading people, so I'm definitely susceptible to the influence of more experienced players arguments.

And then when questioned on their suddenly improved game style, changes to this.

Hoy! But, also thank you?

I don't think my play is different than last game. I had a manator for it (Finn), but I think I only asked her 2 or 3 questions about the mechanics of the game (things like "what happens if there is a tie?") AM said I seemed a little too smart for a noob that game too.

That alone reads sketchy to me, like I said, wolf pack advising sketchy.

 

[Ceke2002]

Too "schooled" like someone, who, I don't know has several degrees in the social sciences, and has written hundreds and hundreds of pages worth of papers that require logic, arguments, and deductive reasoning? Just because I'm a noob, doesn't mean I'm dumb.

Per raf, I'm not playing well because my logic is too derivative. Per you, I'm playing too well because my logic is too polished... Not sure what to do about either, so I'll just continue on.

Schooled as in schooled by wolves, not schooled as in you would otherwise sound dumb.

 

[genny]

unlynch pippy
lynch finn

Finn is posting fluff, and frequently enough to make it seem like she's being an active player. Seems sketchily strategic to me.

 

[finnickthedog]

Would be interested in hearing her response but for whatever it's worth, Blitzen sounds pretty normal to me right now.

 

[britzen]

Schooled as in schooled by wolves, not schooled as in you would otherwise sound dumb.

But you are essentially saying that I am incapable of coming up with anything myself, which is insulting.

 

[finnickthedog]

unlynch pippy
lynch finn

Finn is posting fluff, and frequently enough to make it seem like she's being an active player. Seems sketchily strategic to me.

Well I really can't win here, can I?

I have 3 people saying I'm sketchy because I'm contributing too much/more than usual (which I don't think is true) and then I have you who thinks I'm playing like my normal fluffy self but still wants to lynch me for it.

 

[genny]

Well I really can't win here, can I?

I have 3 people saying I'm sketchy because I'm contributing too much/more than usual (which I don't think is true) and then I have you who thinks I'm playing like my normal fluffy self but still wants to lynch me for it.

I'm agreeing with the other 3... you're posting more than you usually do in WW games. But it's more like the actual watering hole stuff than how I remember you as a WW player.

 

[britzen]

Blitzen posts this:



And then when questioned on their suddenly improved game style, changes to this.



That alone reads sketchy to me, like I said, wolf pack advising sketchy.

I don't think my game style is "suddenly improved" though. I'm playing exactly the same way I played last game - a game in which it had disastrous results, which is why I have doubts about myself this game.

AM made that comment, I assume, because I was playing exactly the same way I am playing now, with attempts at logic and reasoning. Which is essentially the argument that you are making. Anyone who is new to the game cannot be capable of good logic or arguments without someone coaching them.

 

[tartesos]

Sigh, every game people suspect I'm a wolf for fluff posts and tons of likes, or for being absent because I'm asleep.

If I am ever a wolf, I am really going to have my work cut out for me, because I'll have to try to keep the tone of numerous expected posts typical-sounding for me, I'll have to use my crazy villager logic and try to keep it crazy yet self-consistent, and I'll have to continue liking at least 1/3 posts without it revealing any subconscious wolf lean.

When the village starts to shrink, I'll have to keep the posts coming, or, if I give in to the urge to be quiet, I'll have to carefully coordinate it with when I am radio silent on the rest of SDN, which is like never.

I'll also have to be active and forthcoming with intel in PMs, while being misdirecting without it casting too much suspicion on the wrong elements.

If I am ever wolf, I will feel really sorry for my wolf pack, if you think I can manage all of that. I can barely keep myself from getting lynched as a villager for my villageryness.

You sound just like after you became a puppet last game......
Ive got my eye on you bootylicious

 

[Ceke2002]

But you are essentially saying that I am incapable of coming up with anything myself, which is insulting.

Any noob playing as a wolf for the first time would be schooled by the pack. Before I played my first game the mods of a prior game allowed me to sit on the wolf pack group message; there was most definitely advice being given to first time or inexperienced wolves. Nothing to do with somebody being able to come up with anything by themselves, and all to do with protecting the wolf pack and ensuring a win.

 

[tartesos]

I don't think my game style is "suddenly improved" though. I'm playing exactly the same way I played last game - a game in which it had disastrous results, which is why I have doubts about myself this game.

AM made that comment, I assume, because I was playing exactly the same way I am playing now, with attempts at logic and reasoning. Which is essentially the argument that you are making. Anyone who is new to the game cannot be capable of good logic or arguments without someone coaching them.

you are kind of all over the place so far( im just catching up....)

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Please avoid random votes in the future. It's what led to your lynch in the Little Mermaid WW.

This was weird. Saw the follow up, but still wanted to quote in case I decide this was a Rojo later.

 

[finnickthedog]

I'm agreeing with the other 3... you're posting more than you usually do in WW games. But it's more like the actual watering hole stuff than how I remember you as a WW player.

The first person asked if was abnormal for me to be proactive or post "elaborate reads". They didn't just say that hmmm, maybe I was posting more than usual.

The second person said that they "didn't want to discourage participation" which also doesn't make as much sense in the context of me posting nothing but fluff.

And the third just said it was above my typical baseline which could mean anything.

You seem to be suggesting that I'm employing some sort of intentional strategy to try and fool people into thinking I'm active. Which doesn't make any sense at all. You think that I would decide to play differently as some sort of wolf strategy? I would think you've played enough games with me by now (and wolfed with me once) to know that isn't my style... but maybe I'm just not that memorable.

It would make more sense if you were suggesting that my increased posting was sketchy but unintentional. Calling it a strategic move sounds more like trying to jump on an easy vote.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Reading through, I see a ton based on how people feel about the posts thus far this game in relation to the posts of other games. I am still struck that it is day one. While there is useful info here, it does seem like an awful lot is info about prior games, so it is muddying the water for me.

 

[britzen]

Any noob playing as a wolf for the first time would be schooled by the pack.

I'm not arguing that a noob wolf would get pack advice, I am arguing with your logic that such advice would be the only way a noob could be "playing a little too well"

you are kind of all over the place so far( im just catching up....)

Probably. I'm annoyed at what seems like an insult to my intelligence and am flustered.

 

[Animal Midwife]

That alone reads sketchy to me, like I said, wolf pack advising sketchy.

I'm not sure what you mean in reference to the bolding. She wasn't in a wolf pack when I made that comment.

 

[genny]

The first person asked if was abnormal for me to be proactive or post "elaborate reads". They didn't just say that hmmm, maybe I was posting more than usual.

The second person said that they "didn't want to discourage participation" which also doesn't make as much sense in the context of me posting nothing but fluff.

And the third just said it was above my typical baseline which could mean anything.

You seem to be suggesting that I'm employing some sort of intentional strategy to try and fool people into thinking I'm active. Which doesn't make any sense at all. You think that I would decide to play differently as some sort of wolf strategy? I would think you've played enough games with me by now (and wolfed with me once) to know that isn't my style... but maybe I'm just not that memorable.

It would make more sense if you were suggesting that my increased posting was sketchy but unintentional. Calling it a strategic move sounds more like trying to jump on an easy vote.

I think making yourself seem active without contributing much beyond fluff is strategic. Because quiet players get called out, and I've seen it happen to you in the past.

 

[Ceke2002]

I'm not sure what you mean in reference to the bolding. She wasn't in a wolf pack when I made that comment.

I meant one minute she's saying what a sh** show her play style was last game, and then when I mention her game style this game seems to be exponentially improved she switches to saying that even you had mentioned what a good player she was on her first game.

 

[britzen]

I'm not sure what you mean in reference to the bolding. She wasn't in a wolf pack when I made that comment.

She thinks it's sketchy that I think I play like crap, and then when she said I was playing "too well," that I used your comment in a previous game as a support that other people thought I was playing better than a noob.

Never said I thought I was playing well, just that your comment in a previous game supports that my current wolf-hunting strategy is consistent.

 

[britzen]

I meant one minute she's saying what a sh** show her play style was last game, and then when I mention her game style this game seems to be exponentially improved she switches to saying that even you had mentioned what a good player she was on her first game.

She beat me too it.. But, yeah. I don't think I waffled at all. I think I played like crap. AM thought my game strategy made me seem like a smart noob. Which is the same thing she is saying now.

 

[Trilt]

Half an hour remaining.

 

[britzen]

*The same thing ceke is saying now

 

[Crayola227]

But you are essentially saying that I am incapable of coming up with anything myself, which is insulting.

If someone reads your post and likes the logic in a lot and agrees with most of it, it can make people feel pretty paranoid. Wolves will obviously be able to make a good case for villagers being villager, and try to appear "helpful" to village.

If someone reads it and it doesn't make sense (like mine, I guess) that can also read wolfy because at the same time they have to try to make "compelling"arguments to lynch villagers and steer people off wolves.

I think what is helpful is to look more at any *changes* in how you know someone reasons.

You're newer, you had a bad game, now you're having a good game. I can't say the logic or tone is vastly different, but it is different. Not proof of wolf but is a change and I agree with others it is concerning.

 

[Trilt]

Officialish Lynch Tally

Blitzen (2) - Cake, STL
STL (1) - LOtF
Cyndia (1) - Pippy
Pippy ()
LIS () -
Genny (4) - AM, WZ, LIS, finn
Cake () -
Snowy (1) - Crayola
Tartar Sauce () -
PBC (5) - Cyndia, Allie, 3m, Jil, Ski
AM () -
3M () -
Crayola (2) - Raf, blitzen
LOtF (1) - DVMD
Dubz (3) - Snowy, BBC, PBC
Finn (3) - Kam, Rabbott, Genny

23/24 Voting

 

[finnickthedog]

I think making yourself seem active without contributing much beyond fluff is strategic. Because quiet players get called out, and I've seen it happen to you in the past.

It's a terrible strategy because people get called out for posting nothing but fluff even more than they get called out for posting nothing--because posting fluff draws attention. It's a doubly terrible strategy if I know that people have come to see me as a quiet player and I've actually been getting called out for it less frequently. I'm a lot more likely to survive defending myself against normal play than I am defending abnormal play.

Like I said, I'd be a lot more understanding of you calling it a mistake over a strategy. Because I do make mistakes when I wolf. But it's a terrible strategy--and I'd expect you to know I'm a better wolf than that.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Having said that, I have been struck by the tonal shift in Crayola's posts, at least until it was called out. Then she has slid back a bit more toward emotional.

Ceke has seemed more focused in general. But I also feel like this has been a gradual improvement. A few posts have seemed a lot more focused and did make me wonder if she had talked with someone else first, so it helped her pull the wheat from the chaff, but not enough that I am drawn to vote there, especially because I feel like this would help her game play among those that don't like her superfluous normal.

Finn has had many games where she is silent, or nearly so, until she thinks she knows what is going on. Then she livens up. There have been other games with a low level snark throughout and bubbles of inspiration hidden amongst them. ( I like those games) I see nothing concerning here yet.

Blitzen speaks in general like someone used to analyzing others' motives, so I see nothing untoward there yet either.

I love when LIS has days off. Waiting for DVMD to post a good chunk again, should be soon.

Sad that I don't see a classic style STL post yet. Still day 1, so I am still holding out hope.

----------
So this is me analyzing general style. Something I think is possible on day 1, vs so many posts about the specifics of how a person is posting on day 1 in this game verses half way through game x. We can't compare apples to x-rays and expect to get the answer to life, the universe and everything. Let the seeds be planted, and compare the trees or the fruit, or the same day in August. (I lost my point in the metaphor when a kid asked to potty. I'm sure it's there somewhere.)

 

[britzen]

now you're having a good game

Given that it's still Day 1, that remains to be seen.... Didn't realize my role of getting a wolf unlynched Day 1 until after the game was over last time.

 

[britzen]

the answer to life, the universe and everything.

Everybody already knows the answer to that is 42, duh.

 

[tartesos]

I`m not feeling this much, but Genny has been super quiet, like that last time when she was.......
no point in bringing past games but... Lets go for a TIE!!!
too soon to tell.

***Lynch Genny****

 

[tartesos]

~Attempting to reach STL and Tartesos to bring them into the game or see if they need replacement~

Anyone that liked this post is in my $htt list.....

 

[britzen]

Isn't creating ties bad for the village?

Sketchy.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I`m not feeling this much, but Genny has been super quiet, like that last time when she was.......
no point in bringing past games but... Lets go for a TIE!!!
too soon to tell.

***Lynch Genny****

Last time when she was what?

 

[Ceke2002]

Blitzen speaks in general like someone used to analyzing others' motives, so I see nothing untoward there yet either.

I suppose because I don't tend to be very analytical, but go more on instinctual feel a lot of the time, a more analytical player, especially one that is new and apparently good at analysis will catch my eye.

 

[genny]

Last time when she was what?

In surgery all morning and getting peed on by too many cats in the afternoon? That's my guess.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Anyone that liked this post is in my $htt list.....

Hey now. We were just, like, trying to keep you from being modkilled.

 

[Trilt]

Ten minutes remaining

 

[Animal Midwife]

In surgery all morning and getting peed on by too many cats in the afternoon? That's my guess.

Sounds fun.

Also, just a heads up but you're literally in the lead.

 

[tartesos]

Too "schooled" like someone, who, I don't know has several degrees in the social sciences, and has written hundreds and hundreds of pages worth of papers that require logic, arguments, and deductive reasoning? Just because I'm a noob, doesn't mean I'm dumb.

Per raf, I'm not playing well because my logic is too derivative. Per you, I'm playing too well because my logic is too polished... Not sure what to do about either, so I'll just continue on.

hooooww you dooooinnggg??!?!?!?( joeys voice)

 

[Trilt]

Officialish Lynch Tally

Blitzen (2) - Cake, STL
STL (1) - LOtF
Cyndia (1) - Pippy
Pippy ()
LIS () -
Genny (5) - AM, WZ, LIS, finn, tart
Cake () -
Snowy (1) - Crayola
Tartar Sauce () -
PBC (5) - Cyndia, Allie, 3m, Jil, Ski
AM () -
3M () -
Crayola (2) - Raf, blitzen
LOtF (1) - DVMD
Dubz (3) - Snowy, BBC, PBC
Finn (3) - Kam, Rabbott, Genny

24/24 Voting - Always double check me, I'm not an awesome tallier.

 

[genny]

Sounds fun.

Also, just a heads up but you're literally in the lead.

Wanna play 20 questions?

 

[tartesos]

Hey now. We were just, like, trying to keep you from being modkilled.

suuuuureeeee

 

[Animal Midwife]

Wanna play 20 questions?

Yes. Yes I do.